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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril (4672 Views)
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Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 4:01pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: What arabic or translation says 1 year in the verse? Write out your Tafsir showing 1 year and prove they categorically say 1year. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by FxMasterz: 4:38pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: I don't think so. Truth would free them but it is one thing to read the truth, and it's another thing to know it. The read the truth but fail to know the truth. The Bible has described their situation well. 2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by FxMasterz: 4:39pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: Someone among them just did. He said Alexander was never a prophet of Islam. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 4:43pm On Jun 29 |
FxMasterz:To Muslims, the truth is not enough. This is exactly why they will deliberately negate a truth with their lies and fabrications so that Islam can escape the truth. Do you think any sensible human being can say that Mohammed is the best example for mankind? Is it possible for a man who flirts with the wife of his adopted son because the best example for mankind? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 4:48pm On Jun 29 |
FxMasterz:I am aware of their arguments. Modern islamic scholars are embarrassed by this: thus they try to change the narrative. Here is what one of their most trusted scholars said Tafsir Qur'an 18.83 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn And they, the Jews, question you concerning Dhū’l-Qarnayn, whose name was Alexander; he was not a prophet. Say: ‘I shall recite, relate, to you a mention, an account, of him’, of his affair Al-Jalalayn is a Muslim scholar not a Christian! So, Dhul-Qarnayn is Alexander the Great: a bisexual and Idolater. Allah spoke to him and gave him an assignment in the Qur'an |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 4:49pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:Will you apologise to me if I show your sources showing that Solomon died standing for almost one year? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 4:50pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt: TenQ: مَا دَلَّهُمْ عَلَى مَوْتِهِ إِلاَّ دَابَّةُ الاٌّرْضِ تَأْكُلُ مِنسَأَتَهُ فَلَمَّا خَرَّ تَبَيَّنَتِ الْجِنُّ أَن لَّوْ كَانُواْ يَعْلَمُونَ الْغَيْبَ مَا لَبِثُواْ فِى الْعَذَابِ الْمُهِينِ﴾ (nothing informed them (Jinn) of his death except a little worm of the earth which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his stick. So when he fell down, the Jinn saw clearly that if they had known the Unseen, they would not have stayed in the humiliating torment.) meaning, it became clear to the people that they (the Jinn) were lying. Above is the arabic text and meaning in English. Please point out 1 year. Then you mention 3 witnesses. Witnesses to what please? I see you are confusing witnesses and scholars. SMH. In any case you present translations though I doubt any of these scholars presented their exegesis in English language. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 4:55pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: What will the apology do for you? Anyway show it first |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 5:21pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:1. Show me where I said ONE YEAR: because I have always consistently said almost one year because not every Tafsir say exactly one year. 2. What I have said is that your scholars agree with me and not you! Are you better than your scholars? Nevertheless, Is Al-Jalalayn Wrong? 34.14 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn And when We decreed for him, for Solomon, death, in other words, [when] he died — he remained supported against his staff an entire year, while the jinn continued to toil in hard labour as was customary, unaware of his death, until [finally] when a termite ate through his staff, he fell to the ground [and was seen to be] dead — nothing indicated to them that he had died except a termite (al-ard is the verbal noun from uridat al-khashaba, passive verbal form, in other words, ‘it [the piece of wood] was eaten away by a termite [al-arada]’) that gnawed away at his staff (read minsa’atahu or minsātahu, replacing the hamza with an alif, meaning a ‘staff’, so called because [when describing it one would say] yunsa’u bihā, to mean it is used to repel or drive away [creatures]’).... Is Ibn-Abbas Wrong? 34.14 Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs (And when We decreed death for him) for Solomon, Solomon died and remained standing in his retreat for a year (nothing showed his death) the death of Solomon (to them save a creeping creature of the earth) a woodworm (which gnawed away his staff) and it is said: his short spear. (And when he fell) when Solomon fell to the ground (the jinn saw clearly how) the jinn and human beings saw clearly that they do not know the unseen, (if they had known the unseen, they would not have continued in despised toil) they would not have continued in their subservience. People thought before this that the jinn knew the unseen but when they saw this they realised that they did not Is Ibn-Kathir Wrong 34.14 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir The Death of Sulayman Allah tells us how Sulayman, peace be upon him, died and how Allah concealed his death from the Jinn who were subjugated to him to do hard labor. He remained leaning on his stick, which was his staff, as Ibn `Abbas may Allah be pleased with him, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah and others said. He stayed like that for a long time, nearly a year. When a creature of the earth, which was a kind of worm, ate through the stick, it became weak and fell to the ground. Then it became apparent that he had died a long time before. It also became clear to Jinn and men alike that the Jinn do not know the Unseen as they (the Jinn) used to imagine and tried to deceive people. This is what Allah says: If you need the Arabic version, please go to https://quranx.com/tafsirs/ 34.14 I can't paste the Tafsirs in Arabic as seun's Nairaland bots will ban my account. So, am telling lies against your religion or saying exactly what majority of your scholars interpret the Qur'an to mean? You own me an apology sir! |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 5:32pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: You see your ignorance. What is a year? Is this not singular? In any case kindly provide the actual arabic tafsir of these scholars for translation analysis? How many scholars agree with you? Surely you never read this: Hz. Sulayman started the construction of a big temple during the last years of his reign. The jinn worked very hard in the construction of this temple called Masjid al-Aqsa (the Farthest Mosque) and Bayt al-Maqdis (the Holy House), which is regarded as the holiest temple after the Kaaba. One day, Hz. Sulayman was checking their work leaning on his walking stick. The construction of the temple was about to finish. The jinn were very tired and wanted to rest. However, Hz. Sulayman was watching them leaning on his walking stick; therefore, they did not dare to stop. Meanwhile, Hz. Azrail arrived and took his spirit. The jinn, who thought they knew about the unknown, thought he was alive and continued working although they were tired. This situation lasted for days. A woodworm started to gnaw the walking stick of the Prophet Sulayman days ago. When the construction of the temple ended, the woodworm finished gnawing the stick. The stick broke and Hz. Sulayman fell down. Only then did the people and the jinn notice that he had died. If the woodworm had not gnawed the stick, nobody would have known that he had died. Upon this incident, the jinn spoke as follows: "If we knew the unknown, we would have known about the death of the Prophet Sulayman." It became apparent that they did not know about the unknown. Unfortunately the link you share doesn't contain the actual arabic tafsir. It presents some of the Quran text in arabic not the tafsir in arabic. Don't play smart! |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 5:44pm On Jun 29 |
If not for diversion from the truth why go to exegesis saying what isn't written in the verse? Does any of these translations of the meaning of the arabic verse say anything like a year? -----Syed Abul Ala Maududi----- When We executed Our decree of death on Solomon, nothing indicated to the jinn that he was dead except a worm eating away his staff. So when Solomon fell down, the jinn realised that had they known what lies in the realm beyond perception, they would not have continued to be in this humiliating chastisement. -----Safi-ur-Rehman Mubarakpuri----- Then when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them (Jinn) of his death except a little worm of the earth which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his stick. So when he fell down, the Jinn saw clearly that if they had known the Unseen, they would not have stayed in the humiliating torment. -----Muhammad Pickthall----- And when We decreed death for him, nothing showed his death to them save a creeping creature of the earth which gnawed away his staff. And when he fell the jinn saw clearly how, if they had known the Unseen, they would not have continued in despised toil. -----Saheeh International----- And when We decreed for Solomon death, nothing indicated to the jinn his death except a creature of the earth eating his staff. But when he fell, it became clear to the jinn that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in humiliating punishment. -----Muhammad Sarwar----- When We decreed that Solomon should die, no one knew of his death except for a creeping creature of the earth who ate-up his staff. When he fell down, the jinn realized that if they had known about the unseen, they would not have remained in such a humiliating torment for so long. -----Muhammad Shakir----- But when We decreed death for him, naught showed them his death but a creature of the earth that ate away his staff; and when it fell down, the jinn came to know plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tarried in abasing torment. -----Abdul Majid Daryabadi----- Then when We decreed death for him, naught discovered his death to them' save a moving creature of the earth which gnawed away his staff. Then when he fell, the Jinn clearly perceived that, if they had known the unseen they would not have tarried in the ignominious torment. -----Yusuf Ali----- Then, when We decreed (Solomon's) death, nothing showed them his death except a little worm of the earth, which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his staff: so when he fell down, the Jinns saw plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tarried in the humiliating Penalty (of their Task). Al-Quran - Surah 34 - Saba - Ayah 14 It has been long but Allah will continue denying you mischief makers success. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by AntiChristian: 5:56pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ:My question was simple: Is it possible that God does Genocide?[/quote] Who did Sodom and Gomorrah? What about Numbers 31 where all males were killed leaving only virgins? What if I show you that Allah killed millions of babies and children in the Qur'an? You still haven't answered my previous question? Is Moses a terrorist for perpetrating Numbers 31? Are Saul and Joshua too similarly terrorists? Why the double standards? Why the hypocrisy? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by FxMasterz: 6:02pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: Thanks bro for the clarification. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by FxMasterz: 6:07pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: They're mere readers of truth. They are unable to know the truth because their minds are veiled. Theirs a bondage on it that must be broken. They're not in control of their own thoughts. The devil is a master of his craft. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:09pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:The link I shared contains the Arabic text sir check. If you need the Arabic version, please go to https://quranx.com/tafsirs/34.14 Is Ibn-Abbas not supposed to understand the Qur'an beyond most men? Is this hadith untrue aboutIbn-Abbas? Musnad Aḥmad 2879 Ibn Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, put his hand on my shoulder and he said, “O Allah, give him understanding in religion and teach him the interpretation of the Quran.” Here you are rejecting his Tafsir! You are definitely in trouble as three of your greatest scholars support my position. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:11pm On Jun 29 |
FxMasterz:I agree perfectly with you. Islam is a spiritual disease: this is why they are very similar in the way they argue against the truth with the JW! No difference! 1 Like |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:15pm On Jun 29 |
AntiChristian:Moses is NOT a terrorist because he received a DIRECT command from God. Thus I asked you a simple question: 1. Is it possible that God does Genocide? 2. What if I show you that Allah killed millions of babies and children in the Qur'an? Will you affirmatively concur that Allah is a Terrorist? Why the double standards? Why the hypocrisy? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by FxMasterz: 6:18pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: Unbelief itself is a demon spirit. It has the mission from Satan to block people from having faith even when they see truth. Effective evangelism occurs when the preacher can first bind the spirit of unbelief in the life of his hearer before teaching him the Word of God. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:19pm On Jun 29 |
FxMasterz:The problem of Muslims isn't just unbelieve alone but spiritual Blindness and failure of conscience! 1 Like |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:27pm On Jun 29 |
I want to address this your fable Ohyoudidnt:1. What is the source of this story? 2. If this story is correct, it means that Solomon did not see the end of the construction of the Masjid al-Aqsa (the Farthest Mosque) Am I correct? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by FxMasterz: 6:27pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: Bro, they are all within the activities of the spirit of unbelief. The demon blinds the mind, sear the conscience and evoke anger in the hearer towards the preacher. He gets angry unnecessarily at you at some point and would not want to see your face at all. He could even become murderous just because you're speaking the Word of God to him. That's the demon of unbelief at work. It is the demon generally responsible for faithlessness and anti-God activities. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 6:33pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: True to self. When you don't know arabic you cannot discern the arabic there is part of Surah 34:14. Educate yourself and your followers please. The arabic there is not tafsir but actual verse of the Quran. Place it side by side the verse Quran 34:14 The screenshot tells you your Tafsir Ibn Abass is of queried authenticity
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Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 6:34pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: Yes Solomon didn't see the end as before the actual completion he has passed. Although Sulaiman (as) passed away while rebuilding the Masjid, Allah still answered his du’a, by ensuring the rebuilding work didn’t stop! |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:37pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:Mr Antichristian, Qasim6 and honesttalk21 How true is this interpretation of Solomon's death? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:40pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:For your information, I did NOT translate the Tafsirs. It was your islamic scholars that did the translation. I presented exactly where you will find their translation for you https://quranx.com/tafsirs/34.14 So, it's not about me not understanding Arabic, it is about your scholars as you seem to be better than them in knowledge |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:42pm On Jun 29 |
FxMasterz:I agree with you perfectly. 1 Like |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 6:44pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: But you lied that the arabic there is from the Tafsir while it's the Quran. Why present false information? I ask you for tafsir in arabic and you are having diarrhoea or what? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 6:44pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:But are you aware that this contradicts the scripture of the Jews? This is why I asked for your source of this story: Is this from Allah, From Mohammed or from the Sahabas? |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 7:06pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:I thought I made it clear that your Muslim scholars translated the Tafsirs AND I gave you the link to cross-check. Muslims and deception are five and six. If you need the Arabic, look for them and tell me if the translations are DIFFERENT! then come back and engage me. Are you disputing the scholars of quranx.com? Anything to flee the facts in your face. If you are hungry for Arabic, go to https://www.altafsir.com/ |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 8:12pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: You now hide away by putting my question back to me? Continge in your confusion of English translation for actual arabic and keep promoting questionable text that suit your mischief. It will get you no where. |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by TenQ: 9:52pm On Jun 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:Questionable texts translated by honourable Muslims!? For any seeker of the truth, all you needed to do was to verify that Ibn-Abbas, Ibn-Kathir and Al-Jalalayn said or did NOT say what was attributed to them. Now, what you do with the knowledge of the truth is up to you. You can choose (as usual) to disregard the truth or to think deeper perhaps there are other hidden things you should know about |
Re: The Holy Spirit In The Qur'an Cannot Be Angel Jibril by Ohyoudidnt: 10:03pm On Jun 29 |
TenQ: Present the arabic text of the Tafsir. We need to ascertain that there was nothing added or subtracted in the translation. Let it not be like your manual from Hebrew, Aramaic, Yidish to Greek to English or Latin in whichever order. It's easy to put something up and allege authorship to another. This isn't a case of Pseudepigrapha
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