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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup (12338783 Views)
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Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Joebie: 1:23am On Aug 07, 2017 |
You are only reiterating what I have said in different words.. However, converting a youthful player from creative midfield to defensive midfield does not mean he improved massively. That's just a role change which he handled very well. It's a one time change that he maintained through his career at Chelsea. Mikel is not a a good example of player development sorry. Please let's not confuse this discussion with whether Mikel is a great player or not. TheGoodJoe: |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 1:25am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Joebie: When Mikel was converted to a four, he was poor in it and then developed massively to one of the best. The red card issue is a clear sign of his improvement. You can see he grew in it. It reached a time Mikel was playing there and completing more passes than Paul Scholes and Xabi Alonso in the EPL. The young man improved in leaps. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Joebie: 1:34am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Mikel only got sent off twice in his Premier League history. And twice at the FA cup during the 06-08 season. That's very early in his career after the switch. Good attempt. But like I said, that's not a good example when we talk of player development. Granted, in what other areas did he improve during his larger spell at Chelsea? TheGoodJoe: |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Joebie: 1:37am On Aug 07, 2017 |
You are well informed. I respect the way you argue. TheGoodJoe: 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by tbaba1234: 1:44am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Joebie: And you are suggesting that a player who played at the highest level for 10 years did not move through the stages?? Mikel did not reach the peak of his potential but he became to be a important player for the National team and a top club side. Not all youth team players even do that. So yes, He did develop significantly just not to your expectation. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon4s(m): 6:21am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Joebie: Did I ever say Obasi did not progress? Go back to that my comment you quoted from and read it slowly. What do you mean by "significantly" you want to compare the competition at youth level to that of senior level? Why have Isaac Success, Iheanacho and Yahaya not been scoring the kind of goals they scored at junior levels? Would you also say they haven't developed 'SIGNIFICANTLY'? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by justiz5(m): 7:54am On Aug 07, 2017 |
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Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Mickael2(m): 8:50am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Icon4s: you do understand that Obasi played for Schalke when Schalke used to frequent the champions league everyother season. And Mikel's style of play hasn't changed one bit in a while, that's why most Chelsea fans will want him gone once a new toy is acquired not that he isn't good but most times he is rigid. Now let's compare that with a player that has actually developed.....Griezman. I remember Griezmann at the U20 world cup, he was more concerned with running the show in the midfield and he wasn't bad there, caused Nigeria all sorts of trouble, then he moved to Real Sociedad and became an outright winger, crossing the ball at every opportunity, running at defenders and beating them, two or even three of them at a time unlike the way he used to during the U20, then he went to Madrid and now he hardly crosses the ball, he has turned to a deadly goal poacher. If you watch his U20 clips( Lacazette and Kakuta were the best players for that France set) and his recent clips you will see just how well he has improved his game. Mikel on the hand has even regressed, he used to make 6-7 through passes during his U20 years now that is gone, he had an eye for goal now that has largely diminished(you can still see flashes of it like the goal against Uruguay and Algeria)so no Mikel hasn't developed much |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by do4luv14(m): 9:25am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Mickael2: out of point, Griezmann was a creative and attacking midfielder, hence the transition to wi,ger, and then strike is an easy game, let me use a ,Nigeria to counter your point about GRIEZEMANN, NDIDI he started out as a defender, a centre, and hence his transition to a front four, whose duty is same as a defender, I.e Shield the keeper and post, so while I agreed MIKEL had not developed as many would want, but using GRIZEMANN to pin point MIKEL development is a no go arrea 2 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon4s(m): 9:44am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Mickael2: Bros the comparison here is Mikel Vs Obasi. Besides there are so many products of that 2005 U20 FIFA WC that are no where near Mikel today. Success is comparative. You cannot compare Obasi's overall contributions to the national team to that of Mikel. Mikel may not have attained the height most had expected. But you cannot tell me he didn't develop much. 3 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 10:44am On Aug 07, 2017 |
No goldfish80: The first reason established European players mostly in the twilight of thier careers choose Turkey is the tax regime. In Europe you are battling without innovative accountants almost a 50% plus tax burden. The tax burden is easily avoided and paying less than 10% is quite normal. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 10:46am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Joebie: Well said, the intensity and speed associated with the EPL is unparalleled across Europe and the world. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 10:57am On Aug 07, 2017 |
wayodude: Talking to someone in the know is refreshing. Owen Coyle didn't develop Sturridge he was the best thing that happened to him. Sturridge was given an arena that was denied him at City and Chelsea to showcase his prodigious talent, the rest is history. Of the Managers I know Owen is the most clueless I have seen. He nearly destroyed Danny Shittu's career he left Bolton to Millwall and became Championship best defender of that year. Pep is lucky Manager who has always inherited excellent teams that he then tweaks with stupendous amounts of money. I would like to see him coach a team with little or no money and win something like Ranieri at Leicester or Benitez at Newcastle or the very likable Chris Hughton the most straight forward and honest manager in football not just the EPL. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 11:06am On Aug 07, 2017 |
TheGoodJoe: Sorry where this matter of Sturridge and Wilshire is concerned you are wrong. It's like saying that Barkley and Rooney were developed by Everton. They were just at Everton I know for a fact the coaches can not teach person technique positional play, team strategy but individual technical ability and trickery a No, resounding no. Sturridge to at one stage use to train on his own. At one stage I use to think that you were in Manchester city. I'll tell you at one stage I was at Manchester academy 3/4 times a week at Platt lane before they moved to the new site next door the stadium. The coaches there in my opinion were at least 3/4 stages below a lot of Nigerian coaches I know. Particularly when it comes to teaching personal technique and trickery. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Joebie: 11:06am On Aug 07, 2017 |
In what areas did his game dramatically improve or gradually improve over that time line. When I think of player development, I think of time line and how they have progressed from one stage to another, and to the next. That's my point. The reason why I debate most times is so I can learn. I can say I'm satisfied with TheGoodJoe 's points. tbaba1234: 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 11:08am On Aug 07, 2017 |
TheGoodJoe: Sorry where this matter of Sturridge and Wilshire is concerned you are wrong. I concur largely with Wayodude. It's like saying that Barkley and Rooney were developed by Everton. They were just at Everton, I know for a fact that the Everton coaches can not teach personal technique. However, positional play, team strategy but individual technical ability and trickery a No, resounding no. Sturridge to at a stage use to train on his own as a youth player. I know his coach when he was at Villa before he moved to City. So Sturridge I know wellnot hear say. At one stage I use to think TheGoodJoe was permanently resident in Manchester the way you talk with so much authority, I even planned meet you at one the locals in my head, but I know better now. I'll tell you at one stage I was at Manchester academy 3/4 times a week at Platt lane before they moved to the new site next door the stadium. So I probably know at least 60% of the youth coaches at City. The coaches there in my opinion were at least 3/4 stages below a lot of Nigerian coaches I know. Particularly when it comes to teaching personal technique and trickery. Owen Coyle I know well wellu and he is in my opinion a milk man clueless. When it comes to person technical ability you will learn much much more playing at a local academy at Ikpeba hill in Benin- City. Owen taught Sturridge Zero nuttin beyond giving him the chance to play at Bolton. Infact Sturridge did more for Owen than he did for him, without Sturridge Bolton would have probably been relegated. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 11:30am On Aug 07, 2017 |
AIG07: It's more complicated than that, but the fault starts with us. Players in England are use to a particular standard of professionalism that we seem to lack when it comes to engaging with prospective players. It may not even be professionalism as such but differing cultural norms and practices. The issue is not just interest but other competing issues. One issue I believe that is settled which helps is the aligning of the AFCON dairy with football summer breaks not in the middle of the season. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by do4luv14(m): 11:41am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Ok guys and made men in the house, since the season had jst started, and most teams will need theirs men to start on a strong footing to get them going, how sure are we to get our guys for the Cameroun games ![]() cc: TBABA, JOEBIE, DGUDJOE, ICONS4, OPARI MASTER, SAFARIGAL, DSUPANERD, 9JADTABOI, and others |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:52am On Aug 07, 2017 |
komekn: You keep making all these condescending talks about the City coaches but despite the know-how you claim, there is obvious holes in your point. If City coaches are as poor as you make them, how how could they nurture someone like Phil Foden. When you look at the likes of Tosin Adarabioyo and others, you see quality coaching in them. There is no need saying you know the coaches personally ad they are not good while their works speak for them. Foden is thorough and poor coaches can not raise such quality. Is it not I think the Under 16 of City that dominated their division? Winning lots of games. Then making Everton coaching look poor when they have churned out some quality young talents for a long time. From the first I remember, Michael Ball. You think Alex Ferguson would pay a record fee for an uncoached teenager from Everton, Wayne Rooney. What you are writing there does not add up. By the way, I was th one who told you I am based in Nigeria. Do not make it look as if you discovered it. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Joebie: 11:52am On Aug 07, 2017 |
Dennis Bonaventure: Nigeria’s Next Big Soccer Star Posted By: soccerasson: August 06, 2017In: The DugoutNo Comments Print Email It’s an amazing era for football We are in an epoch loaded with abundant young talent many being touted to achieve gargantuan levels of greatness. Nigeria is not left out From Kelechi Iheanacho to Isaac Success to Henry Onyekuru, Victor Osimhen, Orji Okonkwo and Kelechi Nwakali and many more Nigeria has been blessed with a rush of talent between 18 to 21 years of age, a golden generation perhaps all touted to make it big a few years from now To this elitist few we can comfortably add Emmanuel Dennis Bonaventure ! Born in Nigeria 19 years ago Dennis talent stood out at an early age and was one of the exceptional youngsters at the Football Academy Abuja while still only 15 and joining the Nigerian U-15 national team for an Eight-Nation Invitational Tournament in Mexico where he played alongside Kelechi Iheanacho, Chidera Eze, Taiwo Awoniyi among others before leaving the country a year later to the Ukraine In the Ukraine with FC ‘Zorya’ the sensational midfielder, slowly developed an enviable profile for himself raking in 12 appearances for FC ‘Zorya’ in his season with three of those coming in the UEFA EUROPA League (although FC ‘Zorya’ failed to make it past the group stages of the EUROPA League. ) The then 18 year old got rave reviews from pundits across Europe for his performances against Manchester United (England), Feyenoord (Netherlands) and Fenerbahce (Turkey). The reviews were also pouring in with Ukranian media highlighting his 5-star performance against Shahkter Donetsk in a game he was named in the Ukrainian premier league team of the week despite his team’s 1-2 defeat. Wasn’t long after Club Brugge of Belgium came calling and won the youngster amid keen interest from the likes of Bourissa Dortmund Dennis has been described as an exciting and electric player by those who should know, one capable of being the best in whatever league he plays “Dennis is a player with great potential, he has made a lot of progress within a short time and proved every week as one of the best players in the league.” Said ex-Club Brugge star Sergiy Serebrennikov, who was involved in his transfer “He is a lightning-fast striker with individual brilliance and also unpredictable. He is ambitious and I am confident that he will shine in the Belgian league.” Dennis has hit the ground running in Belgium from electrifying performances in preseason he has started the campaign proper like a true star scoring 3 goals in his 1st 2 competitive matches He needed only six minutes to make his impact in the UEFA Champions League too Blessed with unbelievable pace, strength and good dribbling abilities in addition to deft clinical finishing prowess, Dennis is every managers dream forward and although he has been criticized on occasion for his end product the youngster has put in the hard work and improved on his weakness Nigerians should watch out for the player with jersey number 42.” Dr. Leonard Maduabum said when Zorya took on Man united in the UEFA Europa league Dennis has been said to be an ambitious player and confirmed this himself when he told reporters in Belgium he not only wants to be the top scorer in Belgium but the best player as well At the end of the season? Who knows? Its not beyond him --SoccerAssembly 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 12:22pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
komekn: Let me post excerpts of some people on Owen Coyle, a man you tagged "Milk Man Clueless". You can see that there is a big whole in your points. gio's side step: I rate Coyle very highly. I genuinely think he's a class act. What he did at Burnley on that budget was nothing short of a miracle, and he's gone into Bolton and galvanised the entire club. Shrewd also in the transfer market - picking up England's brightest young talents in Wilshire and Sturridge on loan. But for me, it's his general personality which is top drawer. He very rarely get's involved in media PR shit, doesn't regularly blame referees, and always pays the opposition respect before playing them. Very bright, hungry, ambitious manager, with the ingredients to go to the top. Viva Rivaldo: Lots of people thought he was mad when he moved "sideways" to Bolton from Burnley, but he was more than vindicated pretty much straight away. Got Bolton actually playing some decent football, and is great at bringing new talent in. Seems like a reasonably likeable bloke too, which is a bonus for managers. So you want us to believe what Coyle achieved then was done by some Milk Man Clueless person. SMH. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by wayodude(m): 1:19pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
TheGoodJoe: Are you implying that Rooney was as good as he was at 16 because of the coaching he received at Everton? My question about who trained Lukaku still stands. Who trained Messi to become a superstar? Yes there is some development gained through coaching, to me this is mainly tactical and improvements in decision making and most evident in Defenders and Goal Keepers (they have to be tactically astute and this is partly why they peak at a later age). But the star quality abilities of finding a pass, beating a man, receiving passes under pressure etc are not in my opinion 'teachable' skills. e.g Gary Neville, well coached solid player, knew where to be on the field at the right time and could kick the ball into the stands, ask questions later. All that can be taught. On the other hand we have Jay Jay Okocha, he could go past a defender right from his days of playing street football with a repertoire of skills that he either choreographed or picked off other kids ON HIS OWN and tweaked these skills as required through out his career. Owen Coyle sets his team up in a way that most like to see. When it is successful then great. When not I havent seen him do much to change it. But in my view he is a good championship level manager. The Clubs that seem to have the best youth players who make it to the first team more importantly have better youth scouts in the grassroots (in and around the primary schools etc). The coaching at youth level at Southampton is NOT better than it is at Arsenal. But Southampton youth products (Bale, Shaw, Lallana, Walcott, Chambers, Oxlade Chamberlain, Clyne, Ward Prose, Davis etc etc) make it to pro level at a rate arsenal can only dream of. This should be sufficient in ending this debate. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Mybettingtips(m): 2:19pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
Nigerian football league officiating is just too poor. Corrupt refs officiating league matches. Imagine what this ref did, awarded Sunshine a penalty for a foul committed outside the box. The penalty kick is another thing. Awka had 2 penalty chances but the ref waved them aside Match played yesterday Sunshine 1-0 Akwa Cc: BascoVanVeli The video below https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1533739893349686&id=100001410718710&_rdr |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon79(m): 2:19pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
I heard that Couthino to Barca has been a done deal for a while, and he could be unveiled by Wednesday. And they were mentioning about 120m Pounds Sterling. Which to me is freaking crazy, if true! I mean, if they spend anything more that 50m Pounds on Coutinho, then Barca Board need their heads examined! First of all, Coutinho is injury prone. And he isn't even Barca-type player either. He would be a burst at Barca, mark my words. To me, Coutinho is a silly buy for Barca. They've already got two players much better at what he does. In addition, all the players being linked with Barca seem to be forwards and attacking midfielders. I mean, are they only going to play with forwards? If anything the positions Barca desperately needs to shore up are in the defence and the Defensive Midfield departmets! Like I had stated before, my concern is that the Barca organization would, as usual, waste the Neymar's windfall on the players they don't really need. Barca would remain a force if they can spend the $260m Neymar's windfall on players like Eden Hazard, Marco Verratti, and Sandro. But unfortunately, their recruiters suck, so expect them to strike out as usual. O pari 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by maidaboi(m): 2:28pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
Joebie:we don here abeg don't hype my boy too much |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by maidaboi(m): 2:33pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
Icon79:last i check there was a barcelona thread o pari take your time ooh lol |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon79(m): 3:30pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
Oh really? Abeg, can you share the link? A die hard Barca fan here ![]() O pari maidaboi: |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by safarigirl(f): 3:59pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
do4luv14:it's like a week of international break, they'll only miss one game in the EPL and FIFA recognizes these qualifiers, so, nothing the clubs can do 2 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by do4luv14(m): 4:20pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
safarigirl: yea, we might even need two or a week to camp and be Ing abt cohesion in the team, even at that the BPL is notorious for giving excuses, like injury and secretly threatening the player to comply |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Geestunnar(m): 4:22pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
Icon79: https://www.nairaland.com/669609/fc-barcelona-fan-thread-mes/2478 |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon4s(m): 4:23pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
do4luv14: First off, my moniker is icon4s and not icons4 ![]() I thought The two matches still fall within the FIFA window. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2023, 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon79(m): 4:43pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
Yes, do4luv14, Icon4s is correct. Our games against the Indomitable Lions fall on FIFA Window, so the Euro clubs have no option but to release any player we invite. As a matter of fact, I think that all FIFA Federations are playing that week as well. I know for sure that the South American teams are playing that weekend. O pari Icon4s: |
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