vaxx:
go through your own post very well, you will realize you just agree with me....

your personal quote '' so the only thing linking all atheist together is the lack of belief in god'' this is what i am saying , what binds atheist together is base on faith and not on knowledge....... which make it share the same strong similarities with religion....

Any phenomenon you agree too without a proof is faith .....

What they fail to realize is that faith has 2 sides. There is positive faith (which is what theists have when they say God exists)
Then there is negative faith (which is what atheists have when they say God does not exist).

However for the theist he believes he has a self experienced evidence of God which makes him believe God exists. Faith is personal so the experience it brings Is also personal.

The negative faith atheists possess is similar to that of the theist in that they also have a negative self experienced evidence of No God which makes then believe God does not exist.

Both are 2 sides of the same coin. Atheism is faith based but I am sure they would deny this to their graves.

They simply claim to be knowledgeable of the lack of existence of God but the truth is that this knowledge they claim to have is simply a No God self experienced evidence which isn't empirical and which cannot be universally agreed upon.

vaxx:
HAAAAAAAAA, so frack is right abi? pls do not be bias

"Faith in the nonexistence" just sounds so meaningless, the kind of words oral debaters would use as smokescreen

vaxx:
go through your own post very well, you will realize you just agree with me....

your personal quote '' so the only thing linking all atheist together is the lack of belief in god'' this is what i am saying , what binds atheist together is base on faith and not on knowledge....... which make it share the same strong similarities with religion....

Any phenomenon you agree too without a proof is faith .....

Bro, you really need to pipe down a bit; you're getting too philosophical for your own good

butterflyl1on:


What they fail to realize is that faith has 2 sides. There is positive faith (which is what theists have when they say God exists)
Then there is negative faith (which is what atheists have when they say God does not exist).

However for the theist he believes he has a self experienced evidence of God which makes him believe God exists. Faith is personal so the experience it brings Is also personal.

The negative faith atheists possess is similar to that of the theist in that they also have a negative self experienced evidence of No God which makes then believe God does not exist.

Both are 2 sides of the same coin. Atheism is faith based but I am sure they would deny this to their graves.

They simply claim to be knowledgeable of the lack of existence of God but the truth is that this knowledge they claim to have is simply a No God self experienced evidence which isn't empirical and which cannot be universally agreed upon.

Negative faith? How can faith be negative?


So a disbelief in God in faith....a negative faith?



With all due respect, that is wrong. Skepticism and faith are polar opposites. Please stop talking nonsense. A disbelief in God is skeptcism. Skepticism towards God's existence. Rationally based doubt. Can doubt and faith be the same? Your negative faith theory is rubbish


One does not need faith to disbelieve......doubt is the root of all disbelief. Doubt, skepticism, fact-checking.....

budaatum:
I find it amusing that you input consciousness to the universe such that it needs to be aware of ones existence. If I read you correctly, the gods are aware of ones existence for some reason or the other, and the universe also is aware of ones existence. I wonder if the gods and the universe are considered to be the same thing by you? And I wonder at the sense of self importance one must have to assume the entire universe knows and cares that one exists. Vanity is the word that is used in Ecclesiates to describe existence.

Existence itself cannot be an illusion, though one can be deluded in ones perception. It is a similar predicament facing the schizophrenic who sees demons where nothing exists. Indeed, anyone who sees things that are not there is deluded, but thankfully, most believers don't claim to have seen their gods which is why they merely believe in their gods' existence. If they actually know their gods exist, they would not claim to just believe.

But all this would matter not, if it actually had no consequence. A favorite hymn of mine starts, "We are building a people of power". I unfortunately do not see any power in people who cower in fear of going to hell and who do not boldly go forward in their faith creating heaven on earth as they are asked to do. What I see is people on their knees begging their gods and paying their pastors to save them from hell and damnation. All that effort and resource could make the world a better place, but currently it goes to making a tiny few mighty rich while deadening the brains of its sheep, unfortunately.

Hmmn...Just a few questions will tell if my assertion holds or not...
Is man really a self conscious being?
Does 'reality' exist or just a construct of the mind?
Is there really a purpose for living?
Does good or evil really exist?

delexy123:
Hmmn...Just a few questions will tell if my assertion holds or not...
Is man really a self conscious being?
Does 'reality' exist or just a construct of the mind?
Is there really a purpose for living?
Does good or evil really exist?

A few questions will?
Humans are conscious.

Reality exists.

The purpose for living is to live.

Good and evil are brought into being by conscious beings.

You are going to have to explain how any of this shows if your assertion holds or not. Can't say its obvious.

butterflyl1on:


What they fail to realize is that faith has 2 sides. There is positive faith (which is what theists have when they say God exists)
Then there is negative faith (which is what atheists have when they say God does not exist).

However for the theist he believes he has a self experienced evidence of God which makes him believe God exists. Faith is personal so the experience it brings Is also personal.

The negative faith atheists possess is similar to that of the theist in that they also have a negative self experienced evidence of No God which makes then believe God does not exist.

Both are 2 sides of the same coin. Atheism is faith based but I am sure they would deny this to their graves.

They simply claim to be knowledgeable of the lack of existence of God but the truth is that this knowledge they claim to have is simply a No God self experienced evidence which isn't empirical and which cannot be universally agreed upon.

U keep on spewing trash. Which one is nagative faith? So if someone does not have faith in something, he automatically has nagative faith. What nonsense is this?

If the word nagative must be used it should be used for someone who has it but using is for opposite things. Let me school u. If u have faith in amadioha for positive expectations.. eg. Ur son will make it in life, ur friend will win a contract or you hard work will pay, thats positive. But of u have it for unacceptable expectations e.g, ur neigbour should die, ur son should remain poor, ur friends contract should be denied.. then u can call that nagative faith.

Please guy dont come here to talk rubbish.

superhumanist:




Negative faith? How can faith be negative?


So a disbelief in God in faith....a negative faith?



With all due respect, that is wrong. Skepticism and faith are polar opposites. Please stop talking nonsense. A disbelief in God is skeptcism. Skepticism towards God's existence. Rationally based doubt. Can doubt and faith be the same? Your negative faith theory is rubbish


One does not need faith to disbelieve......doubt is the root of all disbelief. Doubt, skepticism, fact-checking.....

You are typing nonsense!

Analogy 1

I have tried a certain drug for a health condition I have and it works every time for me so I never hesitate to take a dose of that drug whenever I experience that medical condition. SO I HAVE POSITIVE FAITH IN SAID DRUG THAT IT WORKS FOR ME. Although due to some reasons it does not work for everyone so is not universally agreed upon which is why there are other drugs apart from that one which would work for those that this particular one does not work for.

Analogy 2.

Since this drug does not work for some other people they for a fact based on personal experience have absolutely NO FAITH aka NEGATIVE FAITH in its effects so would gladly say the drug does not work.

Both experiences are personal while one works the other does not work.

However simply because it works for one or does not work for one does not mean that it must be so for all. This is where personal experience comes in and this is why there are personal questions inscribed on every drug leaflet because the interactions drugs have on people vary based on the individual so a list of questions or cautions are provided.

Now to positive faith in the existence of God it is as simple as saying that I HAVE FAITH THAT GOES EXISTS and the reason why I said this is based on my personal evidential experiences.

You on the other hand can say YOU HAVE FAITH THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Also this is based on your personal experiential evidence solely restricted to you at that time.

I have faith in positives and from my side I see you as having faith in negatives. You see yourself as having faith in positives while seeing me as having faith in negatives.

You call me delusional for believing God exists because you think that position is false and negative.

I see you as delusional for believing God does not exist because also that position is false and negative

Both positions are seen from a positive side and each view is seeing the other as negative.

It's all about perspectives. Positive faith and Negative faith.

This is simply put.

butterflyl1on:


You are typing nonsense!

Analogy 1

I have tried a certain drug for a health condition I have and it works every time for me so I never hesitate to take a dose of that drug whenever I experience that medical condition. SO I HAVE POSITIVE FAITH IN SAID DRUG THAT IT WORKS FOR ME. Although due to some reasons it does not work for everyone so is not universally agreed upon which is why there are other drugs apart from that one which would work for those that this particular one does not work for.

Analogy 2.

Since this drug does not work for some other people they for a fact based on personal experience have absolutely NO FAITH aka NEGATIVE FAITH in its effects so would gladly say the drug does not work.

Both experiences are personal while one works the other does not work.

However simply because it works for one or does not work for one does not mean that it must be so for all. This is where personal experience comes in and this is why there are personal questions inscribed on every drug leaflet because the interactions drugs have on people vary based on the individual so a list of questions or cautions are provided.

Now to positive faith in the existence of God it is as simple as saying that I HAVE FAITH THAT GOES EXISTS and the reason why I said this is based on my personal evidential experiences.

You on the other hand can say YOU HAVE FAITH THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Also this is based on your personal experiential evidence solely restricted to you at that time.

I have faith in positives and from my side I see you as having faith in negatives. You see yourself as having faith in positives while seeing me as having faith in negatives.

You call me delusional for believing God exists because you think that position is false and negative.

I see you as delusional for believing God does not exist because also that position is false and negative

Both positions are seen from a positive side and each view is seeing the other as negative.

It's all about perspectives. Positive faith and Negative faith.

This is simply put.

Stop this naow. No faith is not nagative faith. Stop selling us jargon we will not take it.

Ur fellow theists need to call u to order on this so that u dont go on embarassing yourself.

Now u are comparing ur God who created all humans and can do all things to people's personal experiences to drugs.
U guys keep on limiting this God who created everything even galaxies to personal experience. I am surprised u can see how petty and much of a human concept u make him seem.

frank317:


Stop this naow. No faith is not nagative faith. Stop selling us jargon we will not take it.

Ur fellow theists need to call u to order on this so that u dont go on embarassing yourself.

Now u are comparing ur God who created all humans and can do all things to people's personal experiences to drugs.
U guys keep on limiting this God who created everything even galaxies to personal experience. I am surprised u can see how petty and much of a human concept u make him seem.

You are beyond daft. When did an analogy about faith become an analogy about God and drugs? Are you sure you are not a robot who rubbish goes into and rubbish comes out of?

I am making an analogy about faith and its variants using drugs and you are talking about me comparing drugs to God. Indeed a lot of non intelligent people are everywhere on nairaland.

If I wish to talk about faith and God this is how I will do so right now. You say YOU DO NOT BELIEVE GOD EXISTS or YOU LACK THE BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS . now this is simply word play because all I need to do is switch the words around like this

YOU BELIEVE GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Let me put it side by side for easier comparison

YOU LACK THE BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS
YOU BELIEVE GOD DOES NOT EXIST

LACK SIMPLY MEANS BEING WITHOUT OR NOT HAVING WHICH IS A NEGATIVE.

so you have negative faith. Your lack of belief in the existence of God came from a personal non universal experience which cannot be empirically verified.

If your level of reasoning is very low it is not any fault of mine. It simply means you need to do all you can to raise it up which unfortunately your comments here show that even in that department, you are deficient (ANOTHER NEGATIVE).

butterflyl1on:


You are typing nonsense!

Analogy 1

I have tried a certain drug for a health condition I have and it works every time for me so I never hesitate to take a dose of that drug whenever I experience that medical condition. SO I HAVE POSITIVE FAITH IN SAID DRUG THAT IT WORKS FOR ME. Although due to some reasons it does not work for everyone so is not universally agreed upon which is why there are other drugs apart from that one which would work for those that this particular one does not work for.

Analogy 2.

Since this drug does not work for some other people they for a fact based on personal experience have absolutely NO FAITH aka NEGATIVE FAITH in its effects so would gladly say the drug does not work.

Both experiences are personal while one works the other does not work.

However simply because it works for one or does not work for one does not mean that it must be so for all. This is where personal experience comes in and this is why there are personal questions inscribed on every drug leaflet because the interactions drugs have on people vary based on the individual so a list of questions or cautions are provided.

Now to positive faith in the existence of God it is as simple as saying that I HAVE FAITH THAT GOES EXISTS and the reason why I said this is based on my personal evidential experiences.

You on the other hand can say YOU HAVE FAITH THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Also this is based on your personal experiential evidence solely restricted to you at that time.

I have faith in positives and from my side I see you as having faith in negatives. You see yourself as having faith in positives while seeing me as having faith in negatives.

You call me delusional for believing God exists because you think that position is false and negative.

I see you as delusional for believing God does not exist because also that position is false and negative

Both positions are seen from a positive side and each view is seeing the other as negative.

It's all about perspectives. Positive faith and Negative faith.

This is simply put.

"No faith" is now negative faith? Lol.

Then having no hair is negative hair.

No car is negative car


Bloody clown

butterflyl1on:


You are typing nonsense!

Analogy 1

I have tried a certain drug for a health condition I have and it works every time for me so I never hesitate to take a dose of that drug whenever I experience that medical condition. SO I HAVE POSITIVE FAITH IN SAID DRUG THAT IT WORKS FOR ME. Although due to some reasons it does not work for everyone so is not universally agreed upon which is why there are other drugs apart from that one which would work for those that this particular one does not work for.

Analogy 2.

Since this drug does not work for some other people they for a fact based on personal experience have absolutely NO FAITH aka NEGATIVE FAITH in its effects so would gladly say the drug does not work.

Both experiences are personal while one works the other does not work.

However simply because it works for one or does not work for one does not mean that it must be so for all. This is where personal experience comes in and this is why there are personal questions inscribed on every drug leaflet because the interactions drugs have on people vary based on the individual so a list of questions or cautions are provided.

Now to positive faith in the existence of God it is as simple as saying that I HAVE FAITH THAT GOES EXISTS and the reason why I said this is based on my personal evidential experiences.

You on the other hand can say YOU HAVE FAITH THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Also this is based on your personal experiential evidence solely restricted to you at that time.

I have faith in positives and from my side I see you as having faith in negatives. You see yourself as having faith in positives while seeing me as having faith in negatives.

You call me delusional for believing God exists because you think that position is false and negative.

I see you as delusional for believing God does not exist because also that position is false and negative

Both positions are seen from a positive side and each view is seeing the other as negative.

It's all about perspectives. Positive faith and Negative faith.

This is simply put.

"No faith" is now negative faith? Lol.

Then having no hair is negative hair.

No car is negative car


Bloody clown

butterflyl1on:


You are beyond daft. When did an analogy about faith become an analogy about God and drugs? Are you sure you are not a robot who rubbish goes into and rubbish comes out of?

I am making an analogy about faith and its variants using drugs and you are talking about me comparing drugs to God. Indeed a lot of non intelligent people are everywhere on nairaland.

If I wish to talk about faith and God this is how I will do so right now. You say YOU DO NOT BELIEVE GOD EXISTS or YOU LACK THE BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS . now this is simply word play because all I need to do is switch the words around like this

YOU BELIEVE GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Let me put it side by side for easier comparison

YOU LACK THE BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS
YOU BELIEVE GOD DOES NOT EXIST

LACK SIMPLY MEANS BEING WITHOUT OR NOT HAVING WHICH IS A NEGATIVE.

so you have negative faith. Your lack of belief in the existence of God came from a personal non universal experience which cannot be empirically verified.

If your level of reasoning is very low it is not any fault of mine. It simply means you need to do all you can to raise it up which unfortunately your comments here show that even in that department, you are deficient (ANOTHER NEGATIVE).

Why are you wrongly applying mathematical philosophy to real life?

Negatives in the sense of being less than zero do not apply to many things in real life. Either you have it or you don't.

If you don't have a car, would you say that you have a negative car.

What if you don't have a car, and you destroy 2 lother people's cars, would you even say that you have 2 negative cars?

Stop the nonsense.

superhumanist:


"No faith" is now negative faith? Lol.

Then having no hair is negative hair.

No car is negative car


Bloody clown

Common sense indeed isn't common.

Lack simply means to be without or be deficient. Deficiency does not mean absolutely it simply means that lack has degrees to it. This is why not all atheists agree that God does not exist. They say God MAY exist but Yahweh does not exist. They call themselves agnostic atheists. Their lack of belief is deficient but not absolute.

Negative itself is not always absolute but also in degrees. There is an absolute negative and there is a negative that isn't absolute.

In the case of faith (positive) and negative faith it's all about what you hold on to as your position of conviction.

I believe the existence of God Is a positive thing so I have positive faith in his existence

You believe the existence of God is a negative thing so drew your conviction of his lack of existence based on all the negatives you probably see around you so you lack the belief in his existence which makes yours a negative faith.

Like I said, it's all about me Vs you perspective or a you Vs me perspective. From your side you see me as a negative and you as a positive. From my side I see you as a negative and me as a positive but either way it is based on a personal experiential evidence available to either of us which is not universally verifiable.

You really need to stop the rubbish way of reasoning you possess.

butterflyl1on:


Common sense indeed isn't common.

Lack simply means to be without or be deficient. Deficiency does not mean absolutely it simply means that lack has degrees to it. This is why not all atheists agree that God does not exist. They say God MAY exist but Yahweh does not exist. They call themselves agnostic atheists. Their lack of belief is deficient but not absolute.

Negative itself is not always absolute but also in degrees. There is an absolute negative and there is a negative that isn't absolute.

In the case of faith (positive) and negative faith it's all about what you hold on to as your position of conviction.

I believe the existence of God Is a positive thing so I have positive faith in his existence

You believe the existence of God is a negative thing so drew your conviction of his lack of existence based on all the negatives you probably see around you so you lack the belief in his existence which makes yours a negative faith.

Like I said, it's all about me Vs you perspective or a you Vs me perspective. From your side you see me as a negative and you as a positive. From my side I see you as a negative and me as a positive but either way it is based on a personal experiential evidence available to either of us which is not universally verifiable.

You really need to stop the rubbish way of reasoning you possess.

What was all that

This your style of writing epistles that have no meaning

superhumanist:




What was all that

This your style of writing epistles that have no meaning

you really have the time to go on Merry go round with someone trying hard to sound philosophical

superhumanist:


"No faith" is now negative faith? Lol.

Then having no hair is negative hair.

No car is negative car


Bloody clown

I think I get it, I think.

No money is negative money, so one would say, "butter has negative naira in his pocket", instead of "he is broke".

budaatum:

I think I get it, I think.

No money is negative money, so one would say, "butter has negative naira in his pocket", instead of "he is broke".

No phone is negative phone

being homeless is negative house

Zuckerberg has negative Nairaland

hopefulLandlord:


you really have the time to go on Merry go round with someone trying hard to sound philosophical

I believed that he had some sense.

"negative faith" lmao nairalsnd sef

budaatum:

I think I get it, I think.

No money is negative money, so one would say, "butter has negative naira in his pocket", instead of "he is broke".

No sense is negative sense.


Butterflyl1on, you have negative sense!

budaatum:

A few questions will?
Humans are conscious.

Reality exists.

The purpose for living is to live.

Good and evil are brought into being by conscious beings.

You are going to have to explain how any of this shows if your assertion holds or not. Can't say its obvious.

The first question asked if human are SELF conscious being NOT conscious being...note the difference...

For the second...Again if one is summit to the philosophy behind atheism then it is suffice to say that there is no such thing as 'absolute reality' but the one man construct in his mind...perceived reality

The third? I love how you wittily gave a vague answer but let me narrow down the question...Does life really have a meaning? Is man really special than let's say a stone?

As for last question...the atheist stance is that good or evil simply Do Not Exist...a breakdown?...before man can call something evil, man must know what good is. But before man can call something good, he must have a moral framework to distinguish between good and evil. But before man can have a moral framework to distinguish good and evil, he must have absolute moral laws to build that framework. But before man can have absolute moral laws, he must have an absolute moral Lawgiver (laws don’t give themselves) which atheists do not subscribe to...And this begs the deliberately ignored question...What Good Does Atheism Offers To The World?...
Yet we see atheists portraying themselves as humanitarians, freedom fighters, human right activists, animal right activists, environmental activists etc... It is either they are bunch of pretenders Or they are living in delusion.

superhumanist:




What was all that

This your style of writing epistles that have no meaning

Such epistles are needed for hard at hearing people such as you are.

superhumanist:



"No faith" is now negative faith? Lol.

Then having no hair is negative hair.

No car is negative car


Bloody clown

Is negativity always absolute or is it in degrees? OK let me ask you a simple question.

Does God exist?
Does Yahweh exist?

budaatum:
Positive FAITH vs. Negative FAITH

By ken2112

"Negative faith?" you say? Um, sit back and strap in:

There are many kinds of positive faith. Most of you are probably sitting there thinking that ALL faith is positive, which simply isn't the case.

Positive faith includes having faith in yourself, for example having faith that you'll pass that exam next week at school, or whatever. Having faith in humanity, or the universe. Faith that everything will turn out OK, etc. etc. Those are all very positive forms of faith, no doubt about that.

Negative faith, and yes there are negative forms of faith, is any brand of faith that is based upon ignorance or gullibility. For example, if I walk up to you and say "I can jump to the moon!" you'll instantly ask me for proof right? Well, what if I don't provide proof, but instead offer you a book that says that I have jumped to the moon not once, but several times, and claim that as my proof. Would you believe me then? If you took on faith that I could jump to the moon in the absence of evidence, but simply because it says so in a book, then you'd not only be gullible, you'd be a complete idiot. Am I right?

But by the same standards and reasoning, many people, even some of the most intelligent people in our society, are more than totally willing to suspend all logic, reason and critical thinking in order to believe in a man who is said to have been born 2000 years ago to a virgin, who performed miracles including walking on water, healing the sick, raising the dead, even raising himself from the dead after 3 days and ascending into heaven, and they're willing to believe that based upon ONLY the contents of a book AND in the absence of all evidence. And so, by the very same standards they are believing a story that is even more insane and more impossible than my claim of being able to jump to the moon, all because of what it says in some book. Am I right? If I'm wrong where have I gone wrong here? If you believe there is evidence that Jesus existed you're simply wrong, and that point is proven here: [s]http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=199438566741023[/s]

The point is that having "faith" in something as far fetched as these stories (Jesus and his miracles and me jumping to the moon) is a fine example of people being gullible, and the reason for that is because EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS require EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. If you're gullibly believing such tall tales and nonsense based upon no evidence whatsoever, and based upon the contents of some book alone, then you'd better re-examine your belief, because you're not using intelligence, logic or rational thought. If you cannot find some proof of these ridiculously insane stories being true then there is no reason to believe in them, period. No GOOD reason, anyway. Which is why so many Christians say "I don't need evidence because I have faith!" "Faith" is their EXCUSE to believe, in the absence of any GOOD reason to believe, which is, of course, ridiculous.

Um, 'scuse me but do you also have faith that I can jump to the moon? Then why do you believe a story that is even more impossible than mine? What makes that far fetched story true but mine untrue? What criteria are you using to justify believing one of the stories but not the other? Because it's in a book? Well, my story is in a book too. Remember? Do you believe that Harry Potter was a real person? Why not? He's in a book too isn't he? So, why do you choose to believe in Jesus, but not my ability to jump to the moon or that Harry Potter is a real person? Superman was in a comic book, does that make him a real person? What about Krishna from India, he's in a book. He's the star of another religion called Hinduism. Why do you reject that religion but believe in Christianity? There is no evidence for either one being true. The truth is that if you were born in India you'd be defending the Hindu religion, not Christianity. If you were born in the Middle East you'd be defending the Koran and not the Bible. None of these religions has any factual basis to believe in them, but you were born in America, the land of Christianity, and so you believe in Christianity. You certainly don't believe in Christianity because of any EVIDENCE or FACTUAL INFORMATION. You believe in it because that's what you've been programmed, indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe in from childhood. No other reason.

So, when it comes to negative faith, my first point becomes clear, and that is that people are claiming "faith" as their excuse to be gullible and believe nonsense when there's no good, rational, logical reason to believe in the first place. And yes, that is definitely a very negative thing.

My second point on the subject of negative faith is that when FACTS come into the picture, many people insist upon believing things that are CONTRADICTORY to what the facts dictate, and you simply cannot go there. Believing in something that contradicts facts is stupidity in it's purest form. If it's a proven fact that 2+2=4 but you insist that 2+2=5 and then cite your reason for having that belief as "faith" well then we have a serious problem. I'm sure you can all see the point. No matter how much faith one has 2+2 NEVER equals 5 and it NEVER will, which makes your faith ridiculous and stupid, which is a very negative thing.

Now, if I point out the proven FACT to you that the story of Jesus lacks all originality, and is nothing more than a story that has been told time and time again in ancient mythology, if I pointed out to you the fact that the Jesus story is nothing more than a rehashed and plagiarized myth, [s](https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=394345167250361)[/s] you'd either react one of two ways. You'd admit that the Jesus story isn't true because his life story was stolen and plagiarized from old myths and there is no evidence for his existence...

OR

You'd ignore the facts and keep believing in Jesus Christ, in CONTRADICTION of the facts, in other words you'd keep insisting that 2+2=5 despite having it proven to you that it =4.

Now that's definitely a negative thing too. And that's the path that most Christians take. INTENTIONAL IGNORANCE and IRRATIONAL, ILLOGICAL "FAITH" which certainly cannot be considered a positive thing. And unfortunately, this form of faith is the most common form of faith that there is.

RELIGION: Training your mind to avoid and ignore facts and evidence, and to suspend all logic, common sense and reason so that you can believe in unproven fairy tales and myths based upon no evidence whatsoever, and being proud of it rather than ashamed.

butterflyl1on:


Common sense indeed isn't common.

Lack simply means to be without or be deficient. Deficiency does not mean absolutely it simply means that lack has degrees to it. This is why not all atheists agree that God does not exist. They say God MAY exist but Yahweh does not exist. They call themselves agnostic atheists. Their lack of belief is deficient but not absolute.

Negative itself is not always absolute but also in degrees. There is an absolute negative and there is a negative that isn't absolute.

In the case of faith (positive) and negative faith it's all about what you hold on to as your position of conviction.

I believe the existence of God Is a positive thing so I have positive faith in his existence

You believe the existence of God is a negative thing so drew your conviction of his lack of existence based on all the negatives you probably see around you so you lack the belief in his existence which makes yours a negative faith.

Like I said, it's all about me Vs you perspective or a you Vs me perspective. From your side you see me as a negative and you as a positive. From my side I see you as a negative and me as a positive but either way it is based on a personal experiential evidence available to either of us which is not universally verifiable.

You really need to stop the rubbish way of reasoning you possess

Consider your post above and mine below it. Like I said, it's all about perspectives. The writer of that epistle up there is an atheist and from his perspective he says religious faith in God as a negative thing since it isn't based on verifiable facts available to him (this is his personal experiential evidence)

From my perspective as a theist I say an atheists lack of belief in the existence of God as a negative thing since I also have my own personal experiential evidence available to me that brought me to that position even though it may not be universally empirically verified but to me they are true and real because it was a personal thing.

Both sides see the other as a negative while seeing themselves as a positive. This is simple common sense and I am glad that it was an atheist who wrote that post from his own perspective which goes to show that for one perspective there is always another.

frank317:

Faith is based on assumptiom... perhaps u should define what u mean by faith in this context.
If someone says...we dont know how the world came about, so therefore God did it. What kind of experience is this?


This is a wrong assumption... very wrong indeed. At least christians who preach peach dont believe this... why are u right and they are wrong.



By my actions towards her. The way i behave around her. U will see it and u will know it.

NO Sir, assumptions differ from faith, in assumptions experience and question is not necessary, in faith ,it give chances for testing....

if i tell you something that my religion says GOD create the world, you must test it, dont just assume it, carry your own personal experiment
and if you find it true with your own experience then follow it.

Borrowed answers and assumptions will not help you in your life journey. Only your own experience can lead you to truth. so if you are atheist because you read it somewhere or base on someone idea, you are crossing a river that has no bridge and you know what that mean...and that means the faith is blind.


not all christian discriminate, i have so many of them as Friends, even some of them are ok with me being a pagan.....it is only the fanatic that needs to be checked....only the fanatic will assume i am wrong for being a pagan unless he is a novice..

i like what you say about the way you will convince me to love your mom.....meaning it is only me who can personally experience the love you have your mom and not base on what people say.....it is only you who can find GOD and not base on what people say ....

delexy123:
The first question asked if human are SELF conscious being NOT conscious being...note the difference...

There is no consciousness that does not include the consciousness of the self, so 'self' is a redundant word in that statement! Basically, if I were to cut off your hand and you were not aware I did, we would say you are not conscious, period. However, 'self conscious' could mean a consciousness that comes from the inner being as opposed to one externally imposed on one's self. Do consider.

delexy123:
For the second...Again if one is summit to the philosophy behind atheism then it is suffice to say that there is no such thing as 'absolute reality' but the one man construct in his mind...perceived reality

Please read through the entire thread. We argued for objective truth, but it sounds similar to what you now call 'absolute reality', and no atheist worth their salt would argue that it does not exist! We suggested that if a tree fell in a forest, did it require a subjective observer to fall, or could it fall regardless. The nuances apply to your "absolute reality".

In fact, if there was a "philosophy behind atheism", it calls for 'absolute reality', and not one described in a book 2000 years ago that one requires faith to accept as true!

delexy123:

The third? I love how you wittily gave a vague answer but let me narrow down the question...Does life really have a meaning? Is man really special than let's say a stone?

Important or special to whom or what? Humans are no more important or special than a stone except to those who are in relation with that human being. They are the only one's who rejoice when one's life begins and cry when one's life ends. To the rest of humanity one may as well be a stone!

And I repeat, the only reason for life is to live.

delexy123:

As for last question...the atheist stance is that good or evil simply Do Not Exist...a breakdown?...

Please note, I am an atheist. Not the type who believes gods do not exist, but the type who knows gods do not exist.

Now we got that out of the way, do you think it bothers me when you tell lies? Okay, perhaps that's not personal enough. Do you think I would mind if you insulted me? Do you seriously believe the fact that I am an atheist makes me believe its okay for me to put my hand in your pocket and take your money and spend it without your approval, or take your partner and sleep with him or her without expecting you to be pissed off at me? Lets look at it another way. Do you think the fact that I am an atheist would mean if you took my money, or my partner, I wouldn't mind? Do I need something to tell me that if you ate my dinner I should be displeased? Do you need something to tell you that if I ate your dinner you would be displeased?

You give yourself no credit for being self conscious, which really is all you'd need to know that which is pleasing and that which doesn't.

Atheism does not mean one does not care about others. In fact, we militant atheists do care and that's why we are on here (upandan, as some have said) deriding religion and proclaiming theism is based on error and belief that is false. Just imagine for one if all the preachers had to find a living by building factories instead of selling salvation. Would the world not be a better place? Would the world not be a better place if all those tithes people pay was invested in infrastructure?

Yes, atheists are "humanitarians, freedom fighters, human right activists, animal right activists, environmental activists etc". Since the atheist knows there ain't no god who's gonna come down from wherever gods live to come and make the existence of human beings better and their existence better than that of a stone, they get off their asses and give their lives purpose by making the world a better place for all!

My dear friend, I'll ask you to become "self" conscious. Do not let others tell you what your consciousness must be.

I concede that the different perspective give different, and opposing views. And I am glad you noticed the similarities. There are differences too though.

Your "negative faith" sounds more like a "no faith" while that posted defines "negative faith" as a faith held in error.

"Negative faith......is any brand of faith that is based upon ignorance or gullibility. .....an excuse to be gullible and believe nonsense when there's no good, rational, logical reason to believe in the first place."

butterflyl1on:



Consider your post above and mine below it. Like I said, it's all about perspectives. The writer of that epistle up there is an atheist and from his perspective he says religious faith in God as a negative thing since it isn't based on verifiable facts available to him (this is his personal experiential evidence)

From my perspective as a theist I say an atheists lack of belief in the existence of God as a negative thing since I also have my own personal experiential evidence available to me that brought me to that position even though it may not be universally empirically verified but to me they are true and real because it was a personal thing.

Both sides see the other as a negative while seeing themselves as a positive. This is simple common sense and I am glad that it was an atheist who wrote that post from his own perspective which goes to show that for one perspective there is always another.

budaatum:
I concede that the different perspective give different, and opposing views. And I am glad you noticed the similarities. There are differences too though.

Your "negative faith" sounds more like a "no faith" while that posted defines "negative faith" as a faith held in error.

"Negative faith......is any brand of faith that is based upon ignorance or gullibility. .....an excuse to be gullible and believe nonsense when there's no good, rational, logical reason to believe in the first place."

No!

My negative faith did not imply no faith which was why i said the below in quote

Lack simply means to be without or be deficient. Deficiency does not mean absolutely it simply means that lack has degrees to it. This is why not all atheists agree that God does not exist. They say God MAY exist but Yahweh does not exist. They call themselves agnostic atheists. Their lack of belief is deficient but not absolute.

butterflyl1on:


No!

My negative faith did not imply no faith which was why i said the below in quote

Thanks for the clarification. Not many atheist are agnostic though., and not many would accept that their view of no gods is based on faith.

vaxx:
NO Sir, assumptions differ from faith, in assumptions experience and question is not necessary, in faith ,it give chances for testing....

of course assumption differs from faith. I didnt say other wise, i said faith is based on assumptions. Faith does not give testing a chance. pls define Faith. From the christian perspective, Faith is evidence of things HOPED for. You just hope for it and claim u have evidence. Thats having faith based on assumption.

if i tell you something that my religion says GOD create the world, you must test it, dont just assume it, carry your own personal experiment
and if you find it true with your own experience then follow it.

so how can i test your religious saying - God created the world? isnt it by questioning it? I questioned it and find out your belief is filled with nothing but assumption

Borrowed answers and assumptions will not help you in your life journey. Only your own experience can lead you to truth. so if you are atheist because you read it somewhere or base on someone idea, you are crossing a river that has no bridge and you know what that mean...and that means the faith is blind.

good

not all christian discriminate, i have so many of them as Friends, even some of them are ok with me being a pagan.....it is only the fanatic that needs to be checked....only the fanatic will assume i am wrong for being a pagan unless he is a novice..

oga many Christians think you will go to hell for being a pagan. Ask butterflylion if u will go to heaven as a pagan. are u a learner?

i like what you say about the way you will convince me to love your mom.....meaning it is only me who can personally experience the love you have your mom and not base on what people say.....it is only you who can find GOD and not base on what people say ....

where will i find God then? where is he hiding?