urose93:


This kind of people shouldn't be dignified with response.
He obviously won't humble himself to get schooled.
You have given him valid reasons why he shouldn't interprete the book of revelation literally. But would he reason or would he still claim more catholic than the Pope?
No body knows all, but studying and understanding the Bible is a task that people should take seriously. Not just getting the elementary knowledge, and boom, start criticizing others.
Jehovah's Witnesses never said the 144000 are all their modern day members. I have been a member for well over 25years, and I never heard such from the organization.

He can as well say he is among the class of 14400, no body will drag that with him. But the truth remain that Jehovah knows all his chosen ones, and the 'real' chosen ones knows themselves.

So, all of a sudden the woman they didn't defile themselves with is not literal but what?

Let me bust your lies one more time. The 144,000 are going to exist during the Great Tribulation when everyone saint must have raptured ro heaven. If you read Revelations 6, you will see that the Great Day of the Lord was come and his wrath was about to be poured on the earth. The saints had raptured then. Move to chapter 7 and you will see an angel saying they first need for seal the 144,000 before the wrath falls.

Revelations 7:3-4
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

As seen above, while the saints were in heaven, the 144,000 where on Earth during the Great Day of the Lord. It was later they joined others in heaven as seen in Revelations 14. So your claim that they will be the only ones going to heaven is false. Nowhere is such written.

MrCally:
It pains a lot to see a disabled you intended to help turn against you, calling you a fraudster. Thats what many have done to this sincere worhipers of the only true God. They are not paid yet they still have to provide for the family and finance their life-saving work, yet many turn against them and mistreat them. They've suffered persecutions, oppositions, shame, abuse ect, yet come rain come sun they are still there with the bags carry utensils of peace for the nations. How sad!


Who said Jehovah's witnesses are false religion?

Lets face it.

Apart from JW's which other religion are obeying the direct command of Jesus to preach from city to city and from house to house?(matt 6:11-14;24:14;28:18-20)

Which religion love it members more than JW's?
(John 13:34,35)

Except JW's which religion know and fulfil the law of christ? (Gal 6:2).

Which religion except JW's obey the law of blood, sex, politics, peace as stated in God's word the bible?

Judge for yourself with your conscience.

Keep shut.

Your door to door preaching is not what Jesus commanded. Jesus never commanded that people should go about spreading another doctrine. He said we should go save souls. You don't save souls. All you do is deceive them with false doxtriena by telling them things like Jesus never resurrected bodily, he was an angel, only 144,000 will go to heaven etc. Is that what Jesus sent Christians to go do? Is that the gospel?

Your false doctrine of 144,000 has been busted, you now want to use sentiments to divert our attention. It won't work.

HumanHairLovers:






They don't have prophets and they don't claim to be prophets.

The Bible doesn't support that there would be prophets in our time. Neither do we claim so.


Our understanding of the Bible made us understand that God's kingdom started ruling in 1914.

It was that understanding that we had. We felt that that kingdom extended to the earth but which wasn't true.

But that 1914 heralded the reign of Christ was true.

Our understanding of the Bible is not complete but what we hold is the truth. If it needs to be adjusted we would humbly do so as far it is in line with the Bible and not man's thought.

Just aa Daniel account helps us understand that the true knowledge would become abundant at the end of times. Dan 12:4

So that means all understanding won't definitely be clear at one single time.

Just the same it wasn't for the apostles. Matt 24: 1-14.


Today as we study the Bible and our understanding becomes clearer we adjust to the truth.


Which is not the same with other religions who claim they're the custodians of spiritual truth when they're clear evidence from the Bible that their teachings are filled with lies.


They don't want to change or adjust. They forget that the light of the righteous keeps getting brighter & brighter.


For example we first celebrated Christmas, but when we found out that it wasn't in the Bible we stopped it immediately.

Can you say that for others?

Now that is one out of a thousand.

Every single thing you said here can be debunked clearly and conclusively. But life must be easy when all you have to do is read what someone else wrote and repeat it as truth. So I guess I'll leave you to enjoy since what we believe isn't what really matters.

BleedTears:

so Virgin means those who has had sex? Hahaha

No wonder some 9ja slay mama/Queens after slaying they come online to tell us they're still virgin lol

Well i've not come across your moniker since my involvement in NL religious forum, so i'll help you to understand what our book {Bible} is saying!

The word virgin literally means someone who has not engaged in sexual relations with anyone either the opposite sex or same sex. But the book of Revelation is NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY.
For instance the HARLOT called Babylon the Great means the world empire of false religion, the BEAST means governmental authorities of the world, DRAGON means Satan who possessed the serpent at Genesis to deceive Eve but it has outgrown the level of an ordinary serpent in deceit so Revelations referred to him as the Dragon, the SEA means faithless people from different nations and so on!

So virgins simply means faithful disciples of Christ who stood there ground never to engage in anything Satan brandishes because Satan is the fabricator of all false religions! Jeremiah 3:8
It does not necessarily mean they're males because in another setting the book refers to this same group as the BRIDE. John 3:29 compared to Revelations 21:2
Of course you can't call a group BRIDE if all the members are MALES. Take note here that the foundation of the BRIDE group are the twelve Apostles of Jesus amongst whom there is NO females! Revelation 21:9-14

So the validation of their virginity is NOT based on sexual intercourse Sir, it connotes 100% loyalty to God! Paul used that word for the congregation of Christ, for a certainty the first century Christians congregation comprises of both males and females! 2Corinthians 11:2
God bless you Sir!

Maximus69:


Well i've not come across your moniker since my involvement in NL religious forum, so i'll help you to understand what our book {Bible} is saying!

The word virgin literally means someone who has not engaged in sexual relations with anyone either the opposite sex or same sex. But the book of Revelation is NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY.
For instance the HARLOT called Babylon the Great means the world empire of false religion, the BEAST means governmental authorities of the world, DRAGON means Satan who possessed the serpent at Genesis to deceive Eve but it has outgrown the level of an ordinary serpent in deceit so Revelations referred to him as the Dragon, the SEA means faithless people from different nations and so on!

So virgins simply means faithful disciples of Christ who stood there ground never to engage in anything Satan brandishes because Satan is the fabricator of all false religions! Jeremiah 3:8
It does not necessarily mean they're males because in another setting the book refers to this same group as the BRIDE. John 3:29 compared to Revelations 21:2
Of course you can't call a group BRIDE if all the members are MALES. Take note here that the foundation of the BRIDE group are the twelve Apostles of Jesus amongst whom there is NO females! Revelation 21:9-14

So the validation of their virginity is NOT based on sexual intercourse Sir, it connotes 100% loyalty to God! Paul used that word for the congregation of Christ, for a certainty the first century Christians congregation comprises of both males and females! 2Corinthians 11:2
God bless you Sir!

You are just dancing around by trying to turn a literal thing into some phantom spiritual thing.

Nowhere in the entire Bible is fhe word virgin used to connote someone who hasn't worshiped satanic religion. Virgin all through the Bible has always meant someone who hasn't had sex. Mary was a virgin. But according to you, you would have us believe she had had sex and that her virginity just simply means she never worshiped false religion.

The Bible even makes it clear that they didn't defile with women, it didn't say a woman. You have gone ahead to explain what the dragon, sea and harlot as mentioned in the book of revelations are. And we know they are not literal because other passages in the Bible tell us who the dragon is i.e Satan, who the sea is and who the harlot is. But which other verse in the Bible tells you that virgin means someone who hasn't worshiped false religion? You can never find, that is why we have to take the passage for its literal interpretation because it has no other. @bold No Bible verse says such.

The 144,000 are different from the bride of Jesus. The bride of Jesus are the church who will resurrect to meet him at rapture. The 144,000 are from the 12 twelves tribes of Israel who have not defiled themselves with women. The Bible is very clear on that and Revelations 7 says they will be on Earth during God's wrath when the church or saints have raptured. That's another deflation of your false doctrine that they are the only ones going to heaven. If so, why are they on Earth during the wrath of God when the saints are in heaven?

Don't forget to show us where else in the Bible the word women is used to mean false religion.

alBHAGDADI:


Keep shut.

Your door to door preaching is not what Jesus commanded. Jesus never commanded that people should go about spreading another doctrine. He said we should go save souls. You don't save souls. All you do is deceive them with false doxtriena by telling them things like Jesus never resurrected bodily, he was an angel, only 144,000 will go to heaven etc. Is that what Jesus sent Christians to go do? Is that the gospel?

Your false doctrine of 144,000 has been busted, you now want to use sentiments to divert our attention. It won't work.

If your doctrine is exactly what Jesus preached, then why has it failed to yield positive fruits?

Come on, all what the Churches of Christendom have been feeling you for the past 1,800 years is false!
It's the teachings Satan fabricated and imputed into the traditions of second century and third century Churches while all the pioneers of true Christianity ARE SLEEPING IN DEATH! Matthew 13:25

Today Jesus has began ruling in heaven as the King of God's Kingdom, that's why all these secrets are been revealed to his faithful followers on earth one after another just as Jesus did when he first came in the flesh!
If not for divine intervention, who do you think can just come up with such strange doctrines and continue to gain ground in all the countries of the world, bearing positive fruits,conquering and making all the members obedient to the same rule as one happy and peace-loving global family of worshipers? John 17:20-23

Well JEHOVAH has shown all of you enough mercy to SEE things clearly, it's you that preferred darkness to light! John 3:19

Maximus69:


If your doctrine is exactly what Jesus preached, then why has it failed to yield positive fruits?

Come on, all what the Churches of Christendom have been feeling you for the past 1,800 years is false!
It's the teachings Satan fabricated and imputed into the traditions of second century and third century Churches while all the pioneers of true Christianity ARE SLEEPING IN DEATH! Matthew 13:25

Today Jesus has began ruling in heaven as the King of God's Kingdom, that's why all these secrets are been revealed to his faithful followers on earth one after another just as Jesus did when he first came in the flesh!
If not for divine intervention, who do you think can just come up with such strange doctrines and continue to gain ground in all the countries of the world, bearing positive fruits,conquering and making all the members obedient to the same rule as one happy and peace-loving global family of worshipers? John 17:20-23

Well JEHOVAH has shown all of you enough mercy to SEE things clearly, it's you that preferred darkness to light! John 3:19

What is this one saying?

You couldn't prove your doctrine to be true. Jesus never said door to door telling people that he was an angel, never resurrected nor is not God, which are things you do. He said to go and save souls. You guys do t save souls but turn people into Jehovah's False Witnesses. You don't preach the gospel because you don't believe in it.

Gaining grounds worldwide means nothing other than successfully leading people to hell. Catholics also gain ground, even the church of Satan too. What matters is winning souls for heaven.

alBHAGDADI:


You are just dancing around by trying to turn a literal thing into some phantom spiritual thing.

Nowhere in the entire Bible is fhe word virgin used to connote someone who hasn't worshiped satanic religion. Virgin all through the Bible has always meant someone who hasn't had sex. Mary was a virgin. But according to you, you would have us believe she had had sex and that her virginity just simply means she never worshiped false religion.

The Bible even makes it clear that they didn't defile with women, it didn't say a woman. You have gone ahead to explain what the dragon, sea and harlot as mentioned in the book of revelations are. And we know they are not literal because other passages in the Bible tell us who the dragon is i.e Satan, who the sea is and who the harlot is. But which other verse in the Bible tells you that virgin means someone who hasn't worshiped false religion? You can never find, that is why we have to take the passage for its literal interpretation because it has no other. @bold No Bible verse says such.

The 144,000 are different from the bride of Jesus. The bride of Jesus are the church who will resurrect to meet him at rapture. The 144,000 are from the 12 twelves tribes of Israel who have not defiled themselves with women. The Bible is very clear on that and Revelations 7 says they will be on Earth during God's wrath when the church or saints have raptured. That's another deflation of your false doctrine that they are the only ones going to heaven. If so, why are they on Earth during the wrath of God when the saints are in heaven?

Don't forget to show us where else in the Bible the word women is used to mean false religion.

For sincere and honesthearted followers!

VIRGINS in the metaphorical renderings! 2Corinthians 11:2 compared to Jeremiah 3:8-10

alBHAGDADI:


What is this one saying?

You couldn't prove your doctrine to be true. Jesus never said door to door telling people that he was an angel, never resurrected nor is not God, which are things you do. He said to go and save souls. You guys do t save souls but turn people into Jehovah's False Witnesses. You don't preach the gospel because you don't believe in it.

Gaining grounds worldwide means nothing other than successfully leading people to hell. Catholics also gain ground, even the church of Satan too. What matters is winning souls for heaven.

BY THEIR FRUIT says our Master, Lord and King.
So NO stories, go and produce the FRUIT! Matthew 7:15-20 compared to Matthew 5:14-16

Maximus69:


For sincere and honesthearted followers!

VIRGINS in the metaphorical renderings! 2Corinthians 11:2 compared to Jeremiah 3:8-10

You clearly took the bait.


2 Corinthians 11:2
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Good, but you failed. You believe virgin and women used in that verse are not to be taking literal. But how come you took the 144,000 to be literal humans? If you could take the sealed people to be literal humans, how come you suddenly stated that the virgins and women as mentioned in the same verse are not literal?

Revelations 14:4
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Look, the virgins are literal men as much as the women they didn't defile themselves with. The Bible even. Listed the tribes they are from. Or you want to go ahead and say they are not literal as well? And don't use that spiritual Israel on me. Everything about that passage is literal, not spiritual.


Revelations 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand

JuanDeDios:

Every single thing you said here can be debunked clearly and conclusively. But life must be easy when all you have to do is read what someone else wrote and repeat it as truth. So I guess I'll leave you to enjoy since what we believe isn't what really matters.

You know what you have?

1) Lack of knowledge

2) Pride


Did you say, "what we believe isn't what really matters"?

John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Romans 10:2
New International Version
For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge


James 2:14
New King James Version (NKJV)

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?



Matthew 7:21-24
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.



Romans 10:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


Use your tongue and count your teeth

For more information please login to jw.org or contact any witness near you

"This 'little flock' of 144,000 Kingdom heirs, then, are those ones from among mankind who are 'born again.'"²

The Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate the communion supper only once a year.³ In their annual communion service, the congregations gather in their various kingdom halls. This is done on the 14th of Nissan, the Passover date on the Jewish calendar, which usually falls in March or April of each year in the Gregorian calendar. During the service, the cup is passed from Jehovah's Witness to Jehovah's Witness. None of them partake-- except the very few who are of the 144,000.

In John 6:53-54, Jesus said, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 'He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (NASB).

I am not here going to discuss the nature of the communion and compare Catholic and Protestant views of the elements; rather, the issue is that Jesus said to the Jews that they must take of the communion, which He later instituted in Matt. 26:26-28; and that if they did not partake, then they had no life in them, 6:53.

According to the Watchtower, the "life" spoken of in 6:53 is everlasting life.

"On that occasion Jesus was not speaking to those circumcised Israelites about "everlasting life" as human creatures on a Paradise earth under his millennial kingdom. Rather, he was speaking about the very same opportunity that he was setting before the apostle Peter and his fellow apostles by means of the "sayings of everlasting life." It was the opportunity to gain inherent life with the Christ in the heavens, "life in yourselves." (John 6:53) By reigning with him in heaven they could pass on to mankind the life-giving benefits of his sacrifice. ⁴

According to Jehovah's Witness theology, some Witnesses will be raised to "immortal life" and others to "everlasting life." Immortal life is only for the 144,000 that go to be with the Lord in heaven. They do not have resurrected bodies but have "spirit bodies." Everlasting life is for those on Paradise earth and consists of a resurrected body that must be maintained through eating, sleeping, etc.

As we see in the quote above, according to the Watchtower, the life that Jesus was speaking of was "everlasting life"; that is, life in heaven for the 144,000. Therefore, the Witnesses teach that the communion supper is instituted only for the 144,000 Jews and not for all Witnesses.

Since Jesus bought the church with His blood (Acts 20:28) and His blood is the blood of the covenant for the church (1 Cor. 11:25), then communion is supposed to be for all Christians and not just 144,000 elite Jehovah's Witnesses.

To be continued...[/quote]

alBHAGDADI:


You clearly took the bait.


2 Corinthians 11:2
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Good, but you failed. You believe virgin and women used in that verse are not to be taking literal. But how come you took the 144,000 to be literal humans? If you could take the sealed people to be literal humans, how come you suddenly stated that the virgins and women as mentioned in the same verse are not literal?

Revelations 14:4
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Look, the virgins are literal men as much as the women they didn't defile themselves with. The Bible even. Listed the tribes they are from. Or you want to go ahead and say they are not literal as well? And don't use that spiritual Israel on me. Everything about that passage is literal, not spiritual.


Revelations 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand

I told you my friend that the Bible was written by Jehovah's Witnesses from Moses who wrote Genesis to John who penned down the last book!
If you don't believe this, you can never get it right with the Bible Sir!

Now go back and check the ORIGINAL names of the twelve tribes of Israel who left Egypt with Moses and compare to what John penned down.
Hellooooo it is not the literal names Sir, so it's also NOT to be taken literally!
You'll found the complete list of the names of Jacob's son at Exodus 1:2-4
After a careful observation then come back and argue if the names mentioned at Revelations 7:5-8 still needed to be taken LITERALLY or NOT.
Wishing you a blissful research Sir!

Maximus69:


I told you my friend that the Bible was written by Jehovah's Witnesses from Moses who wrote Genesis to John who penned down the last book!
If you don't believe this, you can never get it right with the Bible Sir!

Now go back and check the ORIGINAL names of the twelve tribes of Israel who left Egypt with Moses and compare to what John penned down.
Hellooooo it is not the literal names Sir, so it's also NOT to be taken literally!
You'll found the complete list of the names of Jacob's son at Exodus 1:2-4
After a careful observation then come back and argue if the names mentioned at Revelations 7:5-8 still needed to be taken LITERALLY or NOT.
Wishing you a blissful research Sir!

Exodus 1 (KJV)
1 Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
3 Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
4 Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

Revelations 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand

First, it’s important to note that there are 13 named tribes in Israel, not twelve. Jacob bore twelve sons, but later Jacob adopted Joseph’s two sons in place of Joseph after moving to Egypt. Thereafter, the sons of Jacob were:

Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin

Secondly, there are at least 19 lists of Jacob's sons given in the Old Testament: Gen. 35:22-26; 46:8-25; 49:3-27; Exod. 1:2-5; Num. 1:5-15; 2:3-31; 13:4-15; 26:4-51; 34:19-28; Deut. 27:12-13; 33:6-25; Josh. 13:7-22; Judg. 5:12-18; 1 Chron. 2:1-8:40; 12:24-37; 27:16-22; Ezek. 48:1-7, 23-28, 31-34

Reviewing these lists, we usually find all thirteen tribes included though sometimes a tribe is left out (usually Levi). For example, in Numbers 1, 2, 13, and 26, the tribe of Levi is left out. In other cases, Joseph’s two sons, Ephraim, and Manasseh are combined under just the name Joseph.

[sub][/sub]

alBHAGDADI:


What does "for they are virgins" mean to you?

Besides, you failed to mentioned the woman they didn't defile themselves with.

I ve got something to say who ever you re this ur who topic of not mentioning the woman they didn't defile themselves with 144,000 etc things u re taking up with the jws whats ur real problem with Jw stop hiding in the closet and come out plain. Were u once a Jw? What church do u attend and y can't u just leave the people alone with their believes.

evahgreen:
[sub][/sub]


I ve got something to say who ever you re this ur who topic of not mentioning the woman they didn't defile themselves with 144,000 etc things u re taking up with the jws whats ur real problem with Jw stop hiding in the closet and come out plain. Were u once a Jw? What church do u attend and y can't u just leave the people alone with their believes.

You people are heretics damning people to hell

alBHAGDADI:

You people are heretics damning people to hell

Time will tell bro.. very soon we'll all know who is who..

alBHAGDADI:





Exodus 1 (KJV)
1 Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
3 Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
4 Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

Revelations 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand

First, it’s important to note that there are 13 named tribes in Israel, not twelve. Jacob bore twelve sons, but later Jacob adopted Joseph’s two sons in place of Joseph after moving to Egypt. Thereafter, the sons of Jacob were:

Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin

Secondly, there are at least 19 lists of Jacob's sons given in the Old Testament: Gen. 35:22-26; 46:8-25; 49:3-27; Exod. 1:2-5; Num. 1:5-15; 2:3-31; 13:4-15; 26:4-51; 34:19-28; Deut. 27:12-13; 33:6-25; Josh. 13:7-22; Judg. 5:12-18; 1 Chron. 2:1-8:40; 12:24-37; 27:16-22; Ezek. 48:1-7, 23-28, 31-34

Reviewing these lists, we usually find all thirteen tribes included though sometimes a tribe is left out (usually Levi). For example, in Numbers 1, 2, 13, and 26, the tribe of Levi is left out. In other cases, Joseph’s two sons, Ephraim, and Manasseh are combined under just the name Joseph.

Great!
So if Joseph's name is mentioned, why Manasseh again, since he is one of Joseph's sons? Revelations 7:6 & 8
And what happened to Dan's name and Ephraim{Joseph's second son}?
Don't forget the bone of contention here that
IT IS NOT THE LITERAL SONS OF JACOB{Israel}!

HumanHairLovers:



You know what you have?

1) Lack of knowledge

2) Pride


Did you say, "what we believe isn't what really matters"?

John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Romans 10:2
New International Version
For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge


James 2:14
New King James Version (NKJV)

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?



Matthew 7:21-24
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.



Romans 10:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


Use your tongue and count your teeth

You know the difference between you and me? I, at least, know knowledge is relative - that we can't really claim to now as long as we're in the flesh. You, on the other hand, think you know. You're not prepared to countenance any other view because, in your own eyes, you have the truth already. That's why you rattle off a string of scriptures like a computer, believing that once you quote a book the argument is won and lost. If I had the energy I'd rattle off scriptures of my own and show you how little you know even that Bible. But what would it matter?

I know people who spend hours reading the Bible and sweating and fasting and praying and meditating to understand it. Not you. Someone does that for you and spoonfeed you a pre-packaged interpretation. He can wake up tomorrow Monday and change it. Then wake up Tuesday and go back to the interpretation he gave you on Sunday. Then Wednesday change it again. And you'd say it's all light getting brighter and cite the scripture. That is the sum total of your religious life. Yea, I'm the one who lacks knowledge. And proud - for acknowledging that I know nothing. But I doubt you can even comprehend any of this - your types are like robots. Anyway, like I said, who cares?

@alBHAGDADI

It's good when you have time for God's word, please you're highly appreciated and we really commend you for this. However you must know that the understanding of these sacred secrets has been revealed to just ONE group throughout the whole world, so you must associate with this one and only group if you want to worship the author of the Bible! Zachariah 8:23

There are twelve tribes altogether that formed the nation of Israel, Levi is always counted out because it's the tribe of priests. When the kingdom divided under Rehoboam {Solomon's son} the northern ten tribes {comprising of eight tribes and those of Joseph's two son} separated from the other two tribes that produced the first and second kings of Israel :
Saul the first Israelite king is from Benjamin!
David the second Israelite king is from Judah!

So both Benjamin and Judah remained in the south in Jerusalem, and since the priests only serve in the Temple, the Levites remained with them. These two southern tribes were later referred to as the Jews, while the northern ten tribes were called Samaritans.

Jesus is from Judah, he is the great-grandson of King David{Matthew 1:6,16 compared to Luke 3:23,31} that's why he replied the Samaritan woman at the well saying 'you worship what you don't know, we worship what we know because Salvation originates with the Jews'! John 4:22

What the book of Revelation is saying symbolically is that while some nations will have more numbers in the list of Jesus' corulers, some nations will not have a single nominee for that purpose but people from that nation will be saved, perhaps because such individuals accepted becoming JWs while they're living in far away countries NOT on their own soil where JWs are not allowed to preach and teach in order to gather subjects for God's kingdom! Matthew 10:23

JuanDeDios:

You know the difference between you and me? I, at least, know knowledge is relative - that we can't really claim to now as long as we're in the flesh. You, on the other hand, think you know. You're not prepared to countenance any other view because, in your own eyes, you have the truth already. That's why you rattle off a string of scriptures like a computer, believing that once you quote a book the argument is won and lost. If I had the energy I'd rattle off scriptures of my own and show you how little you know even that Bible. But what would it matter?

I know people who spend hours reading the Bible and sweating and fasting and praying and meditating to understand it. Not you. Someone does that for you and spoon feed you a pre-packaged interpretation. He can wake up tomorrow Monday and change it. Then wake up Tuesday and go back to the interpretation he gave you on Sunday. Then Wednesday change it again. And you'd say it's all light getting brighter and cite the scripture. That is the sum total of your religious life. Yea, I'm the one who lacks knowledge. And proud - for acknowledging that I know nothing. But I doubt you can even comprehend any of this - your types are like robots. Anyway, like I said, who cares?

You're more to be pitied.

You know little or nothing about Jehovah's witnesses.

But you think you know them.

We're the most open minded people in the world.

Who in the whole world forces doctrines on people than churches? What is more dogmatic than feeding people with teachings without authoritative support (i.e on the bible)


Does that make sense to you?
Where is that done?


No one! I repeat No Jw is forced to accept their teachings. Not even their kids.

Everyone is properly taught and asked to go and make their own findings and if they find out otherwise they are free to go.
Same thing Jesus and his disciples did.Luke 24:13, 27, 32. Acts 17:10, 11. 1 Thess. 2:13.


And we would not say a single thing without backing it with the scriptures. 1st timothy 3:16,17


You think they spend hundreds of hours to go to people's house to force teachings on people. Who would spend that much time just to force somebody?

Unlike churches that would hand you flier and tell you just come to church. You tell me what is more dogmatic?


We only desire to reason with people from the bible.


I can only spend time with you if you are ready to be logical. Anything less than that i'll end the discussion.


if you give me a logical point, best i'll do is i'll tell you please let me go and think about this and make some research.


And I repeat you know nothing about God's word! You can't spend the whole Sunday dancing and shouting and expect to know the bible.

Or pack some concocted knowledge from hearsay and say you want to defend the bible. I bet you even a JW kid would school you! John 17:3 PROVERBS 2:3-5.

HumanHairLovers:






They don't have prophets and they don't claim to be prophets.

The Bible doesn't support that there would be prophets in our time. Neither do we claim so.


Our understanding of the Bible made us understand that God's kingdom started ruling in 1914.

It was that understanding that we had. We felt that that kingdom extended to the earth but which wasn't true.

But that 1914 heralded the reign of Christ was true.

Our understanding of the Bible is not complete but what we hold is the truth. If it needs to be adjusted we would humbly do so as far it is in line with the Bible and not man's thought.

Just aa Daniel account helps us understand that the true knowledge would become abundant at the end of times. Dan 12:4

So that means all understanding won't definitely be clear at one single time.

Just the same it wasn't for the apostles. Matt 24: 1-14.


Today as we study the Bible and our understanding becomes clearer we adjust to the truth.


Which is not the same with other religions who claim they're the custodians of spiritual truth when they're clear evidence from the Bible that their teachings are filled with lies.


They don't want to change or adjust. They forget that the light of the righteous keeps getting brighter & brighter.


For example we first celebrated Christmas, but when we found out that it wasn't in the Bible we stopped it immediately.

Can you say that for others?

Now that is one out of a thousand.

So u admit dat some of ur teachings and interpretations of the bible could be wrong? Yet u guys call urselves the truth.. Lol

Silentscreamer:
So u admit dat some of ur teachings and interpretations of the bible could be wrong? Yet u guys call urselves the truth.. Lol

Yes of course, but that's a million times correct than what you posses.

Well if you're ready to admit, humble yourself and learn.


Whatever we are not sure of we would usually make that clear....that we are not sure if it since they're no clear explanation from the Bible.

Can you say the same about you?



Daniel 12:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased

Are you ready to be humble and make changes? Well your proud church can never try it....they'll fall their members hand, lose respect and even the offering money


The truth we have is a million times no where close to what you got.

Is no boasting. Take your time and examine you teachings by yourself.


I'm sure you've never done that in your entire life.
Acts 17:10, 11.



Well there is no need brandishing words with you cos I know you're just trying to play with words to sound intelligent and win some cheap sense of pride.


If you know what you know use your Bible. Use it to speak. It is more intelligent than you. (Well that is if know).

Silentscreamer:
So u admit dat some of ur teachings and interpretations of the bible could be wrong? Yet u guys call urselves the truth.. Lol

Silentscreamer: "Yet u guys call urselves the truth.. "Lol

Achorladey: This is the key point in this your post, from here, one could glean that since the person you addressed readily admit they are wrong on many of the things JWS thought it can be inferred that such TEACHINGS are FALSE and going by JWS agreed formula below......

WHAT WILL GUIDE US IN CHOOSING THE RIGHT RELIGION?

The Encyclopaedia Universalis is CORRECT when it HIGHLIGHTS the importance of TRUTH. A religion that TEACHES LIES CANNOT BE TRUE. The greatest prophet that ever walked on earth stated: “God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.

I don't think the person you addressed the post to catch your drift

JuanDeDios:

You know the difference between you and me? I, at least, know knowledge is relative - that we can't really claim to now as long as we're in the flesh. You, on the other hand, think you know. You're not prepared to countenance any other view because, in your own eyes, you have the truth already. That's why you rattle off a string of scriptures like a computer, believing that once you quote a book the argument is won and lost. If I had the energy I'd rattle off scriptures of my own and show you how little you know even that Bible. But what would it matter?

I know people who spend hours reading the Bible and sweating and fasting and praying and meditating to understand it. Not you. Someone does that for you and spoonfeed you a pre-packaged interpretation. He can wake up tomorrow Monday and change it. Then wake up Tuesday and go back to the interpretation he gave you on Sunday. Then Wednesday change it again. And you'd say it's all light getting brighter and cite the scripture. That is the sum total of your religious life. Yea, I'm the one who lacks knowledge. And proud - for acknowledging that I know nothing. But I doubt you can even comprehend any of this - your types are like robots. Anyway, like I said, who cares?

HUMILITY can be SEEN HERE, don't know about the person the post is meant for. Whatever the case might be, I have my response to that already. It's well written over the reply you got.

achorladey:



Silentscreamer: "Yet u guys call urselves the truth.. "Lol

Achorladey: This is the key point in this your post, from here, one could glean that since the person you addressed readily admit they are wrong on many of the things JWS thought it can be inferred that such TEACHINGS are FALSE and going by JWS agreed formula below......

WHAT WILL GUIDE US IN CHOOSING THE RIGHT RELIGION?

The Encyclopaedia Universalis is CORRECT when it HIGHLIGHTS the importance of TRUTH. A religion that TEACHES LIES CANNOT BE TRUE. The greatest prophet that ever walked on earth stated: “God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.

I don't think the person you addressed the post to catch your drift

She kept beating about the bush. They only believe what their governing body tell them, right or wrong.

alBHAGDADI:


The fact that the Bible didn't say "those who didn't defile themselves with men" is enough to show that the passage doesn't include women. Or is it only through sex with a fellow woman that a woman can lose her virginity?

Can you see that you are the senseless one?

Male chauvinist ,like a leopard can't change his spot.
You're going off point due to your chauvinist mind set.
" Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God?" Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God" James 4:4.
You fixation on "Adulteresses" would colour your understanding of James 4:4.

****In fact Rev14:4 was NEVER specific about the gender of "these are the ones who did not defile themselves with women"

** Galatians 3:28 should reset your brain.
"...there is neither male nor female,for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus"

alB pharisee na which bible verses talk say women no dey go heaven?

MightySparrow:
These are deluded people, they are so righteous that they can condemn Paul, Peter and other Apostles. Many of them are mentally lazy that cannot read books written by the same organisation 70 - 80 years ago and see many of false teachings they have subtly abandoned. The other day one enthusiast was discussing with me and we got to a point where he would not admit the organisation was wrong, he brought out their hymn book and read to me the title: ' The Light is Getting Clearer' I responded, ' The Light has never been dim but you organisation gave it, it's own colouration.

Mightysparrow: The Light has never been dim but you ORGANISATION gave it, it's OWN COLOURATION.

Achorladey: This statement of yours above is SIMPLE and CLEAR ENOUGH. What baffles someone is inability of JESUS to pick out 144,000 individuals for 20 centuries.

Yet it will be difficult for JWs to want to read the materials printed 70,80 years ago simply because when they do and finally get to understand the TYPE and ANTITYPE used by the organization as it applies to this topic under consideration during those years, the COLOURATION might come off.

Silentscreamer:
So u admit dat some of ur teachings and interpretations of the bible could be wrong? Yet u guys call urselves the truth.. Lol

Very idiotic post.
Knowledge is progressive... at a time the belief was the world was flat, today that belief is no longer tenable, (even though today some persons still strongly believe that the earth is flat !) does it mean that our belief today about the spherical earth is false ?
Jesus disciples too had issues and beliefs which were not in tune with Jesus teachings ("But we were hoping that this man (Jesus) was going to deliver Israel" Luke24:21.
""They thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear instantly" Luke19:11.), does that mean they were false Christians?

Because of their misconceptions, in Acts1:6, they sought answers ...
" Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again
the kingdom?

According to Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
"(6) Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again
the kingdom? —More literally, art Thou
restoring . . . Before the Passion the
disciples had thought that “the kingdom of
God should immediately appear” ( Luke
19:11 ). Then had come the seeming failure
of those hopes ( Luke 24:21 ). Now they were
revived by the Resurrection, but were still
predominantly national. Even the Twelve
were thinking, not of a kingdom of God,
embracing all mankind, but of a sovereignty
restored to Israel."

Their master never said his disciples were false Christians, or held them in contempt.
But Jesus "open up their minds fully to grasp (understand) the meaning of the scriptures"
Luke24:44,45.

Jesus progressively exposed his followers
to better understanding of the scriptures.
They humbly adjusted their knowledge and understanding to keep up with their Master Jesus.
That's the proper thing to do.
It's idiotic & hypocritical to criticise JWs for doing what Jesus disciples did.
They were not perfect, JWs are not perfect too

Silentscreamer:
She kept beating about the bush. They only believe what their governing body tell them, right or wrong.

You that feed on junk from the pulpit of the con man who told you god spoke to him last night, yet with out any proof you swallow it hook,line and sinker with out any questions asked..
Its hypocrisy to falsely claim JWs lied, because unlike those con men who feed you with junk from the pulpits and empty your pockets ,JWs have full biblical approval for what we believe

achorladey:


Mightysparrow: The Light has never been dim but you ORGANISATION gave it, it's OWN COLOURATION.

Achorladey: This statement of yours above is SIMPLE and CLEAR ENOUGH. What baffles someone is inability of JESUS to pick out 144,000 individuals for 20 centuries.

Yet it will be difficult for JWs to want to read the materials printed 70,80 years ago simply because when they do and finally get to understand the TYPE and ANTITYPE used by the organization as it applies to this topic under consideration during those years, the COLOURATION might come off.

You no fit know who go dey Bubu cabinet yet you want to decide who Jehovah will choose as a co-ruler with Christ.
OK nau ... continue to deceive yourself.

Jesus disciples moved on from their poor perception about Jesus teachings as he opened their minds to get better understanding of the truth. Luke 19:11. Luke 24:44,45.

Go & pack the science textbooks wey you use for primary school give your child wey dey enter primary one... You know, after reading them, his brain will be sharper than yours..