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Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by plaetton: 9:04pm On Aug 28, 2012 |
jayriginal: yeah, that would be interesting to see. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by plaetton: 9:16pm On Aug 28, 2012 |
Goshen360: @Goshen and Delafruita Gen.1:28- And god blessed them, and god said unto them, be fruitful and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth. Re-plenish: definition: To make full again or to complete again or to restock again. This suggests that there were others prior to Adam and adam's job was to re-plenish or re-populate the earth. What do you think? |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Goshen360(m): 10:43pm On Aug 28, 2012 |
plaetton: Let me give honour to whom honour is due. The OP had said he will only be Christian in just 36 hours and wanted to answer questions because Christians are not doing well in answering questions. I can answer your question, on Gen 1:1-2, on light and day/if there was no sun how can there be day etc but will rather leave or wait for the OP to do this since he wanted to answer questions in favour of Christians not doing the job well. Second. I don't won't to derail his thread. So let's wait for him to do his job and let's see how far he will do the job. I only responded because of Gen. 1:1-2 when he said the earth "became" rather than "was" without form and void, Gen. 1:2. I can give you a detailed breakdown line-by-line on Genesis 1. I hope you understand. We can start another thread on this Genesis 1 issue after the OP's 36hours or we continue here after his stipulated time. Okay. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 11:33pm On Aug 28, 2012 |
Goshen360:john 1:1 says "in the beginning was the word,and the word was with god and the word was god.all things were made through him and without him was nothing made that was made. before the creation of the heavens and the earth described in genesis 1:1,the word was with god and god made everything through the word.the bible says that angels were present during the creation in genesis.however,the genesis account doesnt feature angels been created.it doesnt involve satan been created.infact satan had already been cast down to the earth before the genesis account.doesnt that tell you there was another creation before the genesis account?isaiah sheds more light when he says "for thus says the lord who created the heavens,who is god who formed the earth and made it,WHO DID NOT CREATE IT TO BE IN VAIN,WHO FORMED IT TO BE INHABITED" note that the hebrew word "hayah" which is translated "was" in genesis 1:2 is the same word in genesis 3:20 which translates to "and adam called the name of his wife eve,because she BECAME the mother of all living".also genesis 4:20 "jabal BECAME the father of tent dwellers".why then should there be any objection to translating genesis 1:2 as "and the earth became without forn and void"? indeed god first created the heavens and the earth.then there was a casting down of the devil and his angels which rendered the earth without form and void. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 11:36pm On Aug 28, 2012 |
wirinet:kristos,translated christ,is a title which means saviour.he wasnt called jesus during his lifetime.he was a jew and went by the jewish name yeshwa.however,the greeks penned down his name as ieseous which became latinized to jesu and anglicized to jesus |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Goshen360(m): 12:02am On Aug 29, 2012 |
@ Delafruita, Today, I can now see clearly while many people like you interpret the bible with "educated guess" where applicable. Am sorry, I don't mean any insult because I don't like to insult people but just saying your kind of case on scripture interpretation is a clear example of how and why we have many issues from one simple bible. Your interpretation of Gen 1:1-2 and John 1:1 is injustice to scripture interpretation and also an evidence of pretext. Let me ask you for a favour here. I will kindly demand you to be open minded while I give you detailed breakdown of Gen. 1:1-2 using scriptures to explain scriptures and the rest issues raised here. Since you opened this thread to address issues not being properly handled by Christians, then I will let you do the job. But as soon as your 36 hours is up, then you and I will return to this thread or we can start another thread to delve into this subject. I said this in order not to derail your thread because your 36 hours is not too far away. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:05am On Aug 29, 2012 |
ifeness:the bible doesnt tell us how old cain was when he took a wife. by coming down to the mountain,he was indeed everywhere.the mountain was just one place out of everywhere he was at that moment. according to the good news bible judges 1:18-19 is translated "the lord helped the people of judah and they took possesion of the hill country but they didnt capture gaza,ashkelon or ekron with their surrounding territories because these people living along the coast had iron chariots and so the people of judah were unable to drive them out" you should understand that the bible refers to each of the twelve tribes as if they were individuals.take for example judges 1:3-6. "and judah said to simeon his brother,come up with me into the territory alloted to me that we may fight the canaanites and i will go with you into the territory alloted to you.so simeon went with him and ............".you can see from this that the tribes are referred to as if it was just one person.its the same as the verse you quoted.the "he" that couldnt drive them out isnt yahweh.its judah |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:07am On Aug 29, 2012 |
ifeness:how did eve get produced from adam? |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:27am On Aug 29, 2012 |
cyrexx:thats good to hear e:one thing that is very clear from the bible especially the old testament is that yahweh isnt really into the "love thing".his relationship with the jews was more of a master and slaves affair.all he demanded was that his rules be oneyed and that there be no grumbling.he was quick to anger and didnt hesistate to strike.with the arrival of jesus on the scene,love came to be.it became sort of a "good cop bad cop" routine.jesus was more of love but even he exhibited some traits of anger by cursing a fig tree and some other things.like i said earlier,my interpretation of hell isnt of a fiery fire burning for eternity.i believe the grave is hell not because i want to believe so but because the bible says so.there are 3 words translated "hell" in the bible however this translations have been proven to be wrong."gehenna" referred to a refuse dump outside of jerusalem which used to be constantly on fire.reference was made to gehanna in the bible and it became translated to mean an everlasting furnace. "sheol" which is also translated hell is also curiously translated as grave and pit in other verses which shows that translators made translation to suit the meaning they intended. the third one "hades" definitely refers to the grave. e: 1. if yahweh is as petty as you describe him (@ bolded), i seriously doubt if he is the same one who created this unbelievably gigantic universe. such a weak god can even change his mind about those he admitted to paradise later in eternity.lol. e: 2. you are not seeing from the perspectives of the victims of this hell sentence i.e. non-christians. if god want everybody to go to heaven, he could have in his omnipotence make everybody born into a christian family and make them saved by default. are you telling me that billions of muslims and buddists and african religionists who eventually ends up in hell will see this monster of a god as a loving being.again,hell isnt a place of eternal torment as some bible translations paint it.the unrighteous wont wake up forever and thats their hell.the righteous would enjoy the bliss of heaven for eternity e: 3. you said yahweh is a multi-linguist. hmmm, do you know that word adam and eve are hebrew words. so yahweh is multi-linguist and he decided to create mankind speaking hebrew and when he eventually divided human language into thousands we have nowadays, he still preserves hebrew language. aren't you sensing jewish tribalism and racism here? doesnt this shows that yahweh is a tribalistic deity and not the god of the whole world.isreal were his chosen people.why he chose them is beyond me but he chose them 1 Like |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:28am On Aug 29, 2012 |
jayriginal:jephtah sacrificed his daughter as a burnt offering to the lord |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:31am On Aug 29, 2012 |
plaetton: 1st question:the angels were created from light and their creation was long before the genesis account.john 1:1 says "and without him(the word) was nothing made that was made".all he had to do was speak the word and it came to be |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:35am On Aug 29, 2012 |
plaetton: Gen.1:8. And god called the firmament heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.the hebrew word translated "day" is "yom" and its translation goes beyond the day as we know it.it could be translated as "at the end of the day" and such translation wouldnt strictly refer to a 24hour day. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 12:39am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Delafruita,as a "brother in christ",you should highlight the errors of my interpretation whenever you perceive such |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Goshen360(m): 1:02am On Aug 29, 2012 |
^^^ Delafruita: Don't worry my brother. I will allow you to finish in 36 hours and we will resume this subject here or we open another thread to that effect. Okay. I perceive you have alot to do in your stipulated 36 hours and again, I don't want to derail you. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 1:26am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Goshen360: ^^^a lot to do?not really.at least not yet |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by wirinet(m): 2:13am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: Thank you for being honest and accepting that he could not have been called Jesus Christ when he was alive. The question is if his real name could not have been Jesus, why ascribe so much power to the sound Jesus? Why is there power in the name Jesus and not the original Hebrew name yeshwa, yeshowa or Joshua or any of its other transliterations like ieseous, Jesu, or even isa? Put in another way how come you believe that the sound Jesus is powerful and not his original Hebrew name? |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by wirinet(m): 2:32am On Aug 29, 2012 |
My second question is, As a Christian, how many gods are there in existence? Is there only one God and all other gods are his creations? Ie sub-gods? Or there are three gods Sharing power equally as we were taught in bible class? Or there are many independent gods like baal, posiedon' thor, sango, etc, with the Christian god being the most powerful. Why does the Christian god like the spilling of blood? Whether animal blood or human blood, whether physical blood or spiritual blood. Why does he demand shedding of blood either personally or on our behalf by his son before he can forgive us our sins? |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by wirinet(m): 2:56am On Aug 29, 2012 |
One major problem with your proposition is that you did not state your denomination and sub-denomination of your temporary Christian status. If you are catholic, I would have taken you up on Mary, Saints, purgatory, etc. If you were pentecostal, I would have taken you up on tithes, first fruits, speaking in tongues, anointing oils and Hankies, etc. Or even jehova witness, Anglican, Methodist, and so on. So please state your denominations. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by truthislight: 3:50am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: Hmmm! Funny guy! You did not take a stand on which is the truth it seems you just presented the two as an option. As such it will be difficult to defend Yaweh better. In all, you are very smart. Though as a matter of life and death getting people convince with those two pesentaion, i think your listeners will be confuse. You have to stand with and for the truth that will be consistent with the scriptures from GENESIS to revelation. So, i score you 10% = take a stand for truth for life. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by truthislight: 4:26am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: just on the aspect of hell, you sure have a lot of pinch here. Though not absolute. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by truthislight: 4:38am On Aug 29, 2012 |
wirinet: the significant thing here is the individual. Like the word jesus is a name that other people even do answer even in the bible. But when the word is ascribed to the CHRIST/MESSAIAH it is a reference to a particular person. The most important thing is t he is the christ/masaiah |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by truthislight: 4:41am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: ^^^^ ERROR ERROR ERROR |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Goshen360(m): 5:37am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: I said you will have a lot to do in the sense that you might have a lot of questions you will have to answer before your 36 hours is up. That is why I said you should finish with those questions. Ours (you and I) is not question answer, it's clarification and teaching issue. I hope you understand. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 7:49am On Aug 29, 2012 |
wirinet:you harp so much on a name and its translation.yeshwa means the same as jesus.just as the yorubas say olodumare and the igbos say chineke.different languages have a different pronunciaton but that takes nothing away from the power in the name.besides till this day,people still bear that name in isreal |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by wirinet(m): 7:55am On Aug 29, 2012 |
truthislight: Your response here is highly incoherent. I do not recall reading about any other Jesus in the bible, if there is please provide me with verse and chapter. The question again is why is the physical sound of the name so powerful like it being able to destroy demons, raise the dead, bring riches and prosperity, etc, while his real name or any of its other translations and transliterations are so powerless even though we are talking about the same personality or character? Also when you ascribe the name to the messiah, you are not ascribing the the name to a personality but an idea of a personality since nobody knows the physical characteristics of the character, because some people imagine him to be a white Caucasian while to others he is a Negroid and to others still he has latino characteristics. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by cyrexx: 8:13am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: nice. you cleared some things for me, though. so if Jewish Yahweh is not into "love thing" and he can be a macho-man boss from the sky that can do whatever he likes, tell me how he is different from Arabic Allah, Yoruba's Obatala or Indian's Brahma. they are from different ciltures in the world and they all claim to be the creator and Allah especially claims that he will condemn into eternal hell on the judgement day those who believed he has a son NOW, 1. why did yahweh permit this confusion, knowing that billions of precious people will be born into non-christian cultures and non-christian families. 2.if Yahweh's character is similar to other gods (do-as-i-say-or-go-to-hell), give me a compelling good reason why i should follow yahweh and his son Jesus Christ, tell me a good reason why i should be a christian, and not follow any other religions. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 8:19am On Aug 29, 2012 |
wirinet: My second question is,there is only 1 god and that is yahweh.there is nothing like a 3-in-1 god.thats heresy and had it not found a foothold in christendom,adherrents of such should have been branded delusional.the trinity doctrine came about at the 1st council of nicea which began in 325AD.constantine was supposedly a new convert to pauline christianity and he wanted to make christianity the state religion of rome principally to ensure peace.however,there was chaos in christendom which had begun to lead to a crisis between those who believed mary should be a co-mediatrix and those who believed she was just the human vessel to bring the saviour into the world and deserved no such honour.followers of aries were the prominent voice against the co-mediatrix proposal and with constantine's refusal to invite them to nicea,it was apparent he was in favour of co-mediatrix as were most of those at the council.take into account the fact that constantine never broke his ties with mithraism and even invited mithran bishops to the council.it is believed that constantine proposed the "of one essence" principle. it was initially proposed that the trinity be god the father,god the mother,god the son but this was kicked against by most of the 318 bishops in attendance.eventually the settled on god the father,god the son,god the holy spirit and accorded mary the honour of "mother of god. the trinity is a human invention with no basis in scripture. e: Why does the Christian god like the spilling of blood? Whether animal blood or human blood, whether physical blood or spiritual blood. Why does he demand shedding of blood either personally or on our behalf by his son before he can forgive us our sins?the creator has a purpose for everything he created.he created man to worship him and he gave man dominion.man spills blood whenever he wants to exercise his dominion.his dominion enables him to hunt animals at will and in so doing he spills their blood just to feed himself.the bible tells us we are created in the image and LIKENESS of god.man believes he should show appreciation to god for the authority he has been granted and so he makes sacrifices to god.as time went by,a man's status began to be measured by his "level of dominion" which was based on the number of flocks and herds that belonged to him.whenever there was a need to give thanks,pay obeisance or remit sins,it became the norm to take out of one's belongings i.e. livestock to make it as a sacrifice unto the lord.this was to imply that god is acknowledged as been greater than and this was believed to make god happy.god did request some sacrifices but the purpose wasnt to shed the bblood of animals man already had dominion over,it was to ensure that despite man's dominion,he regognized that the creator still owns everything. where did god command shedding of blood on behalf of his son? |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 8:22am On Aug 29, 2012 |
wirinet: One major problem with your proposition is that you did not state your denomination and sub-denomination of your temporary Christian status. If you are catholic, I would have taken you up on Mary, Saints, purgatory, etc. If you were pentecostal, I would have taken you up on tithes, first fruits, speaking in tongues, anointing oils and Hankies, etc. Or even jehova witness, Anglican, Methodist, and so on.true christianity doesnt depend on denomination.its all about what jesus means to us and our understanding of the bible.take me up on any aspect regardless of denomination and i will respond based on my understanding of scripture |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 8:24am On Aug 29, 2012 |
truthislight:i believe i let it be known which side i am tilted towards. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 8:28am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Goshen360:understood.however,i did quite an exhaustive research on the gap theory a few years ago and it seemed the most plausible explanation.however,am open to your views when the time comes |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by wirinet(m): 8:42am On Aug 29, 2012 |
Delafruita: I thought I have been able to make it clear to you that Jesus is not a Greek translation of the Hebrew yeshwa. Jesus is not the same as yeshwa. In fact the name Jesus has no corresponding equivalent in Hebrew, whether in meaning, translation or pronounciation. See this link for further details - http://jesusisajew.org/YESHUA.php Its is completely false and misleading to equate the yoruba eledumare to the igbo chineke. Just as the case of Jesus eledumare is not a translation of chineke. In this case they are different deities entirely. ask adherants of the religions and stop assuming. |
Re: I Will Be A Nairaland Christian For The Next 36hours by Delafruita(m): 8:46am On Aug 29, 2012 |
wirinet:there was no other jesus mentioned in the bible but there were other jesuses during that period and a distinction had to be made by calling hin jesus christ to seperate him from the like of jesus,son of sapphias or jesus the monomaniac.you assume only the english rendering "jesus" possesses such power and thats wrong.the italians call him "gesu",the spanish call him "senor jesucristo",the japanese call him "iesu",its not in the pronunciation but in the person reffered to. e: Also when you ascribe the name to the messiah, you are not ascribing the the name to a personality but an idea of a personality since nobody knows the physical characteristics of the character, because some people imagine him to be a white Caucasian while to others he is a Negroid and to others still he has latino characteristics.the closest we have to the physical appearnce of jesus comes from the imprint on the shroud of turin.it depicts a man with beards and is believed to have been the cloth jesus was buried in.dating methods place the shroud at around the time of jesus's crucifixion and the imprint indicated a puncture on the wrist which would be where the nail was drilled in.attempts at painting the shroud a fake have failed over the years.a group of scientists came together for that purpose and called themselves STURP.however,till date(after more than 100years of study)they havent been able to prove its a fake.that is just one evidence that jesus existed and was crucified |
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