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Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 12:56pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
TroGunn: Brilliant !! Some of the ardent Trinitarians , especially the catholics will be cast into the lake of FIRE for preventing multitudes from entering the kingdom through their peaching of this 3-god LIE. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 1:14pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
TO WHOM WILL YE MAKE ME EQUAL? The word "equal" is only used four times in Scripture in relation to the subject in hand. There are two references in the Old Testament and two in the New Testament. The two in the Old Testament are in Isa.40:25 and 46:5 where God issues this challenge: "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal,and compare me, that we may be alike?" Isaiah 40:25-31 King James Version (KJV) 25 To whom then will ye liken me , or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. 26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. Our Father is using the singular pronouns of HE , ME and HIS , yet by some magical art we are expected to suspend our brain and convert this singularity into a plurality ? And then GOD warns us in this same passage 'To WHOM Shall I BE Equal ' But the spirit behind the catholic dogma is so proud and ignorant that the WORD of God means nothing to them, they ignore these words and corrupt them with tradition. What about this other verse : Isaiah 45:5 King James Version (KJV) 5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Here again we see our Almighty Father , the only ONE GOD of Heaven and Earth using personal pronouns for himself, again the catholics reject this and tell us GOD is 3 as if we are stupid ! Lastly consider this verse. Isaiah 46:5 King James Version (KJV) 5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? Gals and Guys this is getting very serious, are we going to stand on the word of GOD or the word of that wicked POPE and his harlot church. Let us recap our little observation : 1. God uses singular pronouns like , ME, I, HE , HIS etc - If these words do not denote ONENESS I do not know what else does 2. God asks ' Who can you compare me to ' 3. God asks ' Who is like me ' 4. God asks who can you equate me with Despie all this scripture , the POPE and his wicked antichrist church continue to potray GOD as 3 beings. (Notice the emphasis on the singular pronoun "me," stressing the fact that the One Supreme Deity is speaking). It can be inferred from these challenging statements that it is important to the Father to be recognised, known and accepted as the Number One Power of the universe, and that it is a serious matter to place someone else on an equal footing with Him. I believe that this is why Jesus went to such great lengths to disclaim equality with Him. If this is so, it is unlikely that the Father and son are very sympathetic towards the doctrine of the Trinity, which makes the two one and the same person and puts them on an equal footing with each other. I only say this because of the various statements made in Trinitarian literature that acceptance of the doctrine of the Trinity is vital for salvation, and that those who reject it are damned. If this judgement happens to be wrong, it could lead to very serious consequences for those who exercise it. All of us will be judged according to how we judge others. Those who reject and condemn those who do not adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity, run the risk of being rejected by the Lord if they happen to be wrong. We all do well to heed the exhortation of Jesus: "Judge not that you be not judged." The two New Testament passages of Scripture in which the word "equal" occurs are Jn.5:18 and Phl.2:6. In Jn.5:18 we read that the Jews concluded that Jesus made himself equal with God because he said God was his Father. Once again, as usual,the Jews reached a wrong conclusion and completely failed to understand the simple truth that Jesus was teaching. They "erred," not knowing the Scriptures," and Jesus warned his disciples to " - Edited and culled from 'A Refutation of the Doctrine of the Trinity ' By Barry C. Hodson |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by gbrookes02: 2:05pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: All catholic means is universal or general. Nothing else, so don't get into a tizzy over the word frosbel. The Trinity is accepted by all true Christians universally all through the Church age, that is. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by aryzgreat: 2:05pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Frosbel the anti-catholic, on the last day we shall know who will make heaven btwn u nd the catholics u condemnd to hell. Keep hating, beefing the catholic church that even compilled the bible ur little brain is now twisting. Am a catholic for life! Jesus is Lord! |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:12pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
gbrookes02: 1. Catholic means universal no doubt. But the Roman Catholic Church led by the Pope is PAGAN 2. For the first 300 years before the Pagan Emperor Constantine, the Trinity was not a known , talk less of accepted doctrine 3. Not all Christians accept this strange doctrine of 3-gods. 4. It is not a pre-requisite for salvation |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:13pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
aryzgreat: Frosbel the anti-catholic, on the last day we shall know who will make heaven btwn u nd the catholics u condemnd to hell. Keep hating, beefing the catholic church that even compilled the bible ur little brain is now twisting. Am a catholic for life! Jesus is Lord! Well then, stop worshipping Mary, praying to GOD through dead saints, reciting the Rosary with incantations and all other abominable practises by this wicked church. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by aryzgreat: 2:18pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: U know nothing about the catholic church and ur rantings can NEVER change my believe! u are only frustrated and looking for where to vent ur anger after that catholic girl refused to marry u. Am sorry but ur attack will not change anything, the church is still waxing strong after so many breakaway denominations. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:23pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: I don't think that this is how God works. If it turns out that the Trinity is fake, and Jesus is only an angel as Jehovah's Witnesses believe, I don't think God will send you to hell for praying to Jesus or something. If you serve God whole-heartedly, whether you are a Protestant, Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, even Mormon, I believe that you will go to heaven. The heart is what matters, not spending all your time analyzing minutae. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Enigma(m): 2:31pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: . . . For the first 300 years before the Pagan Emperor Constantine, the Trinity was not a known , talk less of accepted doctrine . . . This is a nonsensical lie that many mumus and wolves are spreading all over the Internet and dunces are lapping up. This has already been disproved on Nairaland before e.g. https://www.nairaland.com/497445/trinity-doctrine-invented-council-meeting/2#7181702 Anyway, this makes for an opportunity to add another useful link on this particular issue http://carm.org/early-trinitarian-quotes There are cult groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, Christadelphians, etc.) who deny the Trinity and state that the doctrine was not mentioned until the 4th Century until after the time of the Council of Nicea (325). This council "was called by Emperor Constantine to deal with the error of Arianism [see page 45] which was threatening the unity of the Christian Church." |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:34pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ekt_bear: Okay , a little history. The trigger for this endless debate was the assertion that all those who do not believe in the Trinity of 3-gods are not Christians and therefore not saved which means that by implication they are damned. This in itself is harsh , false and concocted lie. Secondly, you cannot believe in Mormonism where SATAN is called the brother of JESUS and call yourself a Christian. As for JW I really cannot say , more investigation is needed especially with regards to their concept of salvation. But it is worrying that the JWs are more accurate in their interpretation of many scriptures and doctrine than the so called church made up of over 40,000 denominations. However I do not believe in belonging to an organisation or a church , each MAN to his BIBLE and his GOD. The Spirit of GOD must always be in charge. Will Trinitarians go to hell ? For those who are born again I don't think so, but for those who prevent millions from entering into the kingdom of GOD by insisting you must believe in the trinity, they will be surprised when they hear these words on the last day ' Depart from ME '. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:40pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
[quote author=Enigma] The Apostles certainly did not believe in the Trinity and neither did the ancient Christians, the Trinity was a heresy which became fully developed hundreds of Years after Christ and was finally sanctioned by the Pagan emperor Constantine. This was just before the killing and torture of Monotheistic Christians who rejected this foolishness. Now, I know you are steeped into church tradition, but may I remind you that our standard is the WORD of GOD and not man made tradition. As the Nairaland leader for the Trinitarian 3-god god worshippers , can you kindly show us ONE place in the bible where GOD says he is 3 ? I promise to counter each verse with 10 ONENESS verses. Now, I do not want cherry picking, I want contextualised evidence from the OT to NT. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:40pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
The trinity stuff is really, really weird lol. I consider myself a Trinitarian. But, do you have to believe that Jesus is equal to God the Father or something to be a Christian? I don't necessarily think so. Do you have to think that Jesus is actually God, rather than the Son of God? I don't know... All I know is, Jesus is really important, and you have to live as he lived, follow his example. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." To me, this suggests that even if you don't think Jesus is actually God, he is #2 in the hierarchy and you definitely need to align with him too. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:42pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Look, Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all on the same team. So why are we so obsessed about this stuff anyways? I feel like there are bigger, more important issues Christians should worry about. If you pray only to Jesus, or pray only to God the Father, I think your prayers will be heard anyway. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:42pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
The one I don't understand is the praying to Mary or saints. But even that one, I think God will be understanding of. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:43pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ekt_bear: The trinity stuff is really, really weird lol. I am happy you know |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:46pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
I don't think Christianity is supposed to completely make sense. If it did, then wouldn't everyone be a Christian? There would be no faith element involved. But Christianity, you simply have to take things on faith. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:46pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
It was prophesied clearly in the scriptures that there'll be a major deviation from the truth, of which the Trinity is: "Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons". - 1 Tim 4:1. Also Matt. 24:10, 2 Thess. 2:3, 2 Timothy 3:5. What are some of the facts: 1) The Bible cannot contradict itself. This is fundamental as contradiction = confusion and God is not of confusion. The Trinity doctrine contradicts a good chunk of the rest of the Bible's information about God. 2) Overall the Bible portrays God as one, with no equal - not part of a Trinity. 3) Overall the Bible portrays Jesus as Son of God, God's foremost servant, a medaiator between God and Man, being given authority and elevated by God, but being surbodinate to God. 4) Overall, the Bible does not portray the Holy Spirit as a person. Yes, a few personalization here and there, but overall God's Spirit is portrayed as something God gives/uses to achieve His aims. 5) The Bible wasn't originally witten in English and thus a few portions could be translated in more than one way. Trinitarian try to further their untruth, by twisting translations. Such twists are well known and those desiring to know the truth can always discern such, if humble. A good rule is to compare different translations of the texts to discern original meaning. 6) A bit of ambiguity is created in some Bible translations that replace God's name (Yahweh/Jehovah) with LORD in caps. The preface of such Bibles usually explain their reason for the substitution. Generally, this followed a wrong Jewish tradition, but most newer Bibles tend restore the Name, knowing that such substitutions really amounts to tampering. 7) The Trinity teaching has a finite beginning and history - just google Origin of Trinity or Nicea 325 or Athanacean creed. The Jews didn't and still don't believe it. History shows the early Christians (Apotles) didn't believe it. Jesus didn't beleieve or teach it - he said the Father is greater than himself (John 14:28). The Trinity teaching and term came hundreds of years after - 325 AD. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Enigma(m): 2:48pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: The Apostles certainly did not believe in the Trinity and neither did the ancient Christians, the Trinity was a heresy which became fully developed hundreds of Years after Christ and was finally sanctioned by the Pagan emperor Constantine. So now you admit that you lied with that nonsense about Constantine! Having been caught in that lie that Christians did not believe in Trinity before Constantine you promptly jump to another deliberate lie. Well, for the benefit of others reading, Christians know that the apostles called Jesus God and there are clear examples including Peter, Paul Thomas, John, the author of Hebrews etc. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ijawkid(m): 2:49pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ekt_bear: The one I don't understand is the praying to Mary or saints. Lol.... U don't understand praying to mary abi?? Let's consider Jesus's mediatorship 1st... 1st of all we pray thru Jesus to get to Yahweh....that is why Jesus is our mediator and high priest..... Jesus is the channel,the door,through which we gotta pass to get to Yahweh..... If one understands Jesus's real role right now in the heavens all this trinity gibberish will clear of from the eyes of many... The truth is one cannot worship 3 Gods..... Jesus himself told us whom we should pray to and through whom we should pray......I believe the ""our Father prayer"" is there for all of us as a model......... |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:52pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ijawkid: No Christian who believes in the Holy Trinity thinks that they are 3 separate Gods. They are 1 God, but with three different aspects/persons, if you will. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:53pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
TroGunn: It was prophesied clearly in the scriptures that they'll be a major deviation from the truth, of which the Trinity is: "Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons". - 1 Tim 4:1. Also Matt. 24:10, 2 Thess. 2:3, 2 Timothy 3:5. Another Brilliant contribution. But the Trinitarians who are deep into their church tradition , which is mostly Pagan by the way, do not abide by the rules of overall scriptural analysis, they are experts in cherry picking, decontextualisation of isolated bible verses and have been known sometimes to tell outright lies to support their mysterious dogma. James , the brother of Jesus said demons believe in ONE GOD and tremble. The same demons called JESUS the Son of GOD , they knew him and we never hear them calling Christ GOD. "He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me!" - Mark 5:7 The demons will be laughing their heads off at these Trinitarians !! |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:56pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Enigma: Lovely! |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ektbear: 2:57pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Frosbel, you basically seem to align more with the Jehovah's Witnesses. No big deal...no wahala. Nobody is beefing you But let those of us who believe that Jesus is also God keep our belief. After all, it doesn't really matter much practically, does it? |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 2:59pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
[quote author=Enigma] I lied ? Can you read. The Trinity dogma was : 1. Not sanctioned by the TRUE church, it was a depature from the truth or heresy for want of a better word 2. It only became a 'church' doctrine when Emperor Constantine stamped it into law 3. This so called doctrine was then implemented by FORCE. Having been caught in that lie that Christians did not believe in Trinity before Constantine you promptly jump to another deliberate lie. They DID NOT. Quotation of the names of MEN to support false doctrine is NULL and VOID when discussing scripture. Go read about the noble Bereans who validated Apostle Pauls doctrine, that's if you know what noble means. That some of these MEN believed in 3 gods means absolutely nothing, the Bible is where we should be looking for the answers, but you won't know will you , your standard is church tradition ! Well, for the benefit of others reading, Christians know that the apostles called Jesus God and there are clear examples including Peter, Paul Thomas, John, the author of Hebrews etc. No they did not. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by gbrookes02: 3:03pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
@frosbel...When I (as well as many others) use the word catholic (and I even spell it with a small "c" I mean all true Christians universally through the Church age, it has nothing to do with the false Roman Catholic State "Church". Even you recognise that the word "catholic" means universal, so why the tizzy by you over the word. It is use in many different contexts to mean many different things universally, that has nothing to do at all with the false Roman Catholic State "Church". The Trinity was taught long before the Pagan Emperor Constantine, and The Council of Nicea, see the article "Early Trinitarian Quotes" at: http://carm.org/early-trinitarian-quotes If you had read the Athanasian Creed in my post at page 4 you would of seen that Trinitarians don't believe in three gods but one God that is one Being shared by three persons. Go on page 4 and read the Athanasian Creed in my post to get the proper of The Trinity. And also read the article and listen sermon to the links that I posted the that same post to understand The Trinity doctrine as clearly taught in God's word. Also buying the books meantioned in that same article will help alot as well. It seems to me to you are only arguing for arguing sake, and that is a sin. The reason why I said that is because you are not dealing with the scriptures put forth in support of The Trinity such as John 1:1, Matthew 28:19, and so on. You are completely ignoring them, and thus very unwilling to learn. That is why I said it said seems to me to you are only arguing for arguing sake, and that is a sin and nothing but a waste of time and resources. |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by ijawkid(m): 3:04pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ekt_bear: Sorry bro....then u must believe in another trinity........ How can 1 God be 3 different persons.?? Did u hear yourself?? You still came back to the 3 persons again....... Please read deuteronomy 6:4 and throw away that false thought of God dividing himself into 3 persons...... |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 3:08pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
The Church of the First Three Centuries 1865 Alvan Lamson |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 3:11pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
gbrookes02: @frosbel...When I (as well as many others) use the word catholic (and I even spell it with a small "c" I mean all true Christians universally through the Church age, it has nothing to do with the false Roman Catholic State "Church". Even you recognise that the word "catholic" means universal, so why the tizzy by you over the word. It is use in many different contexts to mean many different things universally, that has nothing to do at all with the false Roman Catholic State "Church". Can we be saved without a belief in the Trinity ? |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 3:12pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by gbrookes02: 3:26pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: NO |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 3:27pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Some Christians all through the centuries rejected the Church-State 325 AD enforced Trinity teaching - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Trinitarian Questions for Trinitarians: 1) When Jesus was on earth, was he God or a man? 2) If he was God, does that mean God died? Can God die? 3) Is Jesus a distinct person from God -the Father or are they same? 4) If they are distinct, are they equal? 5) If they are one and the same - who was Jesus praying to? 6) When Jesus was on earth, did the God in heaven exist then or He was Jesus on earth? Just thinking of this confused doctrince does my head in! |
Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Nobody: 3:36pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
gbrookes02: Evidence of FALSE DOCTRINE and Antichrist spirit. |
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