TroGunn:

So true. The Trinity teaching is of pagan roots.

But the writer above no sabi maths. 1x1x1=1 is actually correct mathematically. Trinity logic is actually 1+1+1 = 1 and it befuddles.

If The Trinity was a triplex then it would of been 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, but The Trinity is not a triplex it is a Triune so therefore biblically, and logically it have to be, and must be logically and biblically 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. Simple.

gbrookes02:

If The Trinity was a triplex then it would of been 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, but The Trinity is not a triplex it is a Triune so therefore biblically, and logically it have to be, and must be logically and biblically 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. Simple.

Not according to your creed : "The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord".

From you creed, your Trinity is 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc = 1God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc.

TroGunn:

Not according to your creed : "The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord".

From you creed, your Trinity is 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc = 1God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc.

Paganism has eaten you up completely......

Don't let Yahwehs anger blaze on you.....

ijawkid:

Paganism has eaten you up completely......

Don't let Yahwehs anger blaze on you.....

I'm only just pointing out the lack of coherence in the pagan-derived Trinity teaching. I don't believe it because it doesn't make sense.

gbrookes02: @TroGunn...You totally miss my point in John 2:19, 21 the point that I was trying to make is that Jesus was saying that His physical body that was dead was the same physical body that was raised up from the grave, and not just a spirit.

Since Jesus is God He also raised Himself up from the dead because He had the power to do it, and the Trnity act as one including in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, in the creation, and so on. The bible say Jesus raised Himself from the dead John 2:19, The Spirit (who also is God) raised Jesus from the dead Romans 8:11, and The Father raised Him from the dead, all Three as God caused the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

Yes "Firstborn is firstborn" but you misunderstand what firstborn means that is what is messing you up in your misinterpreation of the biblical term "firstborn". The articles that I posted above make it very clear what firstborn means in the bible and you can't refute the articles. 1 Chronicles 26:10-11 (New King James Version) "10 Also Hosah, of the children of Merari, had sons: Shimri the first (for though he was not the firstborn, his father made him the first), 11 Hilkiah the second, Tebaliah the third, Zechariah the fourth; all the sons and brethren of Hosah were thirteen" shows where someone who was firstborn in birth order was made the firstborn this was made the preeminent over his siblins.


I’m going to copy some articles on this subject, but let me give you my summation of all of them. In the Old Testament, the firstborn son was the one who normally received a double inheritance, and was the one who would inherit his father’s role as head of the family. God sometimes reversed this order, as he did with Jacob and Esau (Genesis 25:21-26), and as Jacob later did with Ephraim and Manasseh (Genesis 48:13-22). Reuben was the firstborn of Jacob, but his rights as the firstborn were taken away because of his sin (Genesis 35:22; 49:3-4).

The term firstborn therefore has two main meanings. The first is more literal, referring to the fact that this son is the first son to be born of his father. The second meaning refers to the rights and authority of a person, because they are the firstborn. Our Lord is the “firstborn” in several ways, as one of the attached articles indicates. But most of all He is the One who has been appointed by God to be in authority over all things (Colossians 1:13-23; especially verses 15, 18).

Closely related is the expression “son” (which you see in 2 Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7-9 [compare Psalm 110:1-3]; Hebrews 1:5-14). I understand the expressions, “Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee” (Hebrews 1:5a) and “I will be a Father to Him, And He shall be a Son to Me” (Hebrews 5b) to be synonymous. This speaks not of the birth of our Lord (as though this were when He came into existence - for He is eternal as John 1:1-3 indicate), but of His installation as King of the earth by His Father.

FIRST-BEGOTTEN

furst-be-got’-’-n (prototokos): This Greek word is translated in two passages in the King James Version by “first-begotten” (Heb 1:6; Rev 1:5), but in all other places in the King James Version, and always in the Revised Version (British and American), by “firstborn.” It is used in its natural literal sense of Jesus Christ as Mary’s firstborn (Lk 2:7; Mt 1:25 the King James Version); it also bears the literal sense of Jesus Christ as Mary’s firstborn (Lk 2:7; Mt 1:25 the King James Version); it also bears the literal sense of the firstborn of the firstborn of men and animals (Heb 11:28). It is not used in the New Testament or Septuagint of an only child, which is expressed by monogenes (see below).

Metaphorically, it is used of Jesus Christ to express at once His relation to man and the universe and His difference from them, as both He and they are related to God. The laws and customs of all nations show that to be “firstborn” means, not only priority in time, but a certain superiority in privilege and authority. Israel is Yahweh’s firstborn among the nations (Ex 4:22; compare Jer 31:9). The Messianic King is God’s firstborn Septuagint prototokos), “the highest of the kings of the earth” (Ps 89:27). Philo applies the word to the Logos as the archetypal and governing idea of creation. Similarly Christ, as “the firstborn of all creation” (Col 1:15), is not only prior to it in time, but above it in power and authority. “All things have been created through him, and unto him” (Col 1:16). He is “sovereign Lord over all creation by virtue of primo-geniture” (Lightfoot). It denotes His status and character and not His origin . . .

Very long read, but worth the time. May Grace be multiplied to you, bro/sis.

TroGunn:

Not according to your creed : "The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord".

From you creed, your Trinity is 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc = 1God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc.

The creed is saying The Father, The Son, and The Spirit are one God, one Lord, one Eternal, one Uncreated, one Infinite, one Almighty, and not three that's a triune and not a triplex. Read it again. Remember Adam + Eve (two persons) = one flesh.

ijawkid:

No wahala.........

I ready.......

You haven't still actually told me how Jesus is your brother......

Food for thought bro....

truthislight:

you made it sound as though it is a threat?

Meanwhile the scriptures are staring you in the face that Jesus is the first born of all "creation"

who should we listen to?
You or the bible?

See how you contradict the bible with out of context scripture!

Hebrews chapter 7 is talking about the priest hood of Jesus, that it is in the manner of melchizedek not from father to son(without father and mother) and as such a direct appointment from God.

The reference of ETERNAL in this hebrews 7 is in reference to christ priest hood, how can you childishly attempt using it for trinity when we are not talking About priest Hood?

The maturity of reasoning of some of those in this forum is amazing.

If the bible contradict itself dont you think we should leave it?

*sigh*

TroGunn:

I'm only just pointing out the lack of coherence in the pagan-derived Trinity teaching. I don't believe it because it doesn't make sense.

You guys think it's because I believe in the Trinity teaching that is why I made such statement? You hatred for Trinity teaching is making you accuse someone wrongly. The next step we will go into is a debate of "Jesus being created by God" which is the basis of what I attacked and made my statement. In order not to get involved in two many things at a time, I will start a thread and invite you all to the debate if Jesus was created or exist eternally with the Father since you guys are probably not getting the point am addressing.

gbrookes02:

If The Trinity was a triplex then it would of been 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, but The Trinity is not a triplex it is a Triune so therefore biblically, and logically it have to be, and must be logically and biblically 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. Simple.

Do you really believe in the nonsense you just wrote

That God x Father x Son = 1

Foolishness in action !

TroGunn:

I'm only just pointing out the lack of coherence in the pagan-derived Trinity teaching. I don't believe it because it doesn't make sense.

Oh sory bro.....kudos to you.....

It really is madness believing in d trinity

Goshen360:





You guys think it's because I believe in the Trinity teaching that is why I made such statement? You hatred for Trinity teaching is making you accuse someone wrongly. The next step we will go into is a debate of "Jesus being created by God" which is the basis of what I attacked and made my statement. In order not to get involved in two many things at a time, I will start a thread and invite you all to the debate if Jesus was created or exist eternally with the Father since you guys are probably not getting the point am addressing.

Jesus was begotten...
Does that word mean anything to you??

Jesus is the image of the invincible GOD(of which Jesus is not that GOD)....

Any one who is the image of Yahweh is a creation of Yahweh....the same with you and me and adam and all humans that are the image of God(Yahweh)

I know it might sound hard for you to gulp but these are truths that the trinity dogma has made many not accept even when the scripture says so......

ijawkid:

Jesus was begotten...
Does that word mean anything to you??

Jesus is the image of the invincible GOD(of which Jesus is not that GOD)....

Any one who is the image of Yahweh is a creation of Yahweh....the same with you and me and adam and all humans that are the image of God(Yahweh)

I know it might sound hard for you to gulp but these are truths that the trinity dogma has made many not accept even when the scripture says so......

No beef brother. You and I are cool even when we disagree. Okay. Let me shed most assignment at hand. We will enter a debate and start a thread in coming week. Let's leave this thread to be focus on his discourse, okay. Thank you.

The Trinity is a Brainwashometer

The trinity is therefore a 'Brainwashometer'. If the victim is prepared to believe that one is three and that a father is his own son and that a son is uncreated, then he is prepared to believe anything at all and so he is fully brainwashed. Once he is in this condition, his logic is removed, his objectivity has gone, he is mentally defenceless, so he or his family can be pumped for money, sex, status, worship, whatever the priest wants.

So by making the trinity doctrine the central doctrine of the Roman Catholic faith, that church was auto selecting brainwashed people. The control freak only wants brainwashed people. He cannot permit free thinkers to enter the congregation, they might see through his little game and liberate his brainwashed victims. It is a pleasure to be able to reveal the truth behind this despicable mind game that the Roman Catholic Church has relied on for 1700 years.

http://www.biblecodeintro.com/intro39.html

Goshen360:

No beef brother. You and I are cool even when we disagree. Okay. Let me shed most assignment at hand. We will enter a debate and start a thread in coming week. Let's leave this thread to be focus on his discourse, okay. Thank you.

No wahala my dear bro.....

I go email you soon......

How was your day??

The flood here is still persisting.....:-(

tidytim:

Do you really believe in the nonsense you just wrote

That God x Father x Son = 1

Foolishness in action !

The nonsense is still away above you, fool.

Its God x God x God = God.

The Father + The Son + The Spirit = 1 God.

Adam + Eve = 1 flesh.

gbrookes02:

The nonsense is still away above you, fool.

Its God x God x God = God.

The Father + The Son + The Spirit = 1 God.

Adam + Eve = 1 flesh.

So ADAM + EVE = 1 Personality ?

Dullard !!!

ijawkid:

Oh sory bro.....kudos to you.....

It really is madness believing in d trinity

Yet you can't disprove the madness or show it to be wrong.

ijawkid:

Jesus was begotten...
Does that word mean anything to you??

Jesus is the image of the invincible GOD(of which Jesus is not that GOD)....

Any one who is the image of Yahweh is a creation of Yahweh....the same with you and me and adam and all humans that are the image of God(Yahweh)

I know it might sound hard for you to gulp but these are truths that the trinity dogma has made many not accept even when the scripture says so......

When you check out the greek it doesn't say Jesus was begotten. And remember as a human being He was begotten, and in the image of God. But as for His God nature He was, and is God.

tidytim: The Trinity is a Brainwashometer

The trinity is therefore a 'Brainwashometer'. If the victim is prepared to believe that one is three and that a father is his own son and that a son is uncreated, then he is prepared to believe anything at all and so he is fully brainwashed. Once he is in this condition, his logic is removed, his objectivity has gone, he is mentally defenceless, so he or his family can be pumped for money, sex, status, worship, whatever the priest wants.

So by making the trinity doctrine the central doctrine of the Roman Catholic faith, that church was auto selecting brainwashed people. The control freak only wants brainwashed people. He cannot permit free thinkers to enter the congregation, they might see through his little game and liberate his brainwashed victims. It is a pleasure to be able to reveal the truth behind this despicable mind game that the Roman Catholic Church has relied on for 1700 years.

http://www.biblecodeintro.com/intro39.html

You are so dreaming, and so deceived by Satan himself.

gbrookes02:

When you check out the greek it doesn't say Jesus was begotten. And remember as a human being He was begotten, and in the image of God. But as for His God nature He was, and is God.

olodo rapata, so according to your logic, God begat GOD ?

tidytim:


So ADAM + EVE = 1 Personality ?

Dullard !!!

ADAM + EVE = 1 flesh.

Why something so simple is so hard for you all antitrinitarians to understand.

frosbel:

olodo rapata, so according to your logic, God begat GOD ?

As far as where the human Jesus is concern, Yes God begat God because Jesus was both God and man.
I don't have any logic, logic is from God.

gbrookes02:

When you check out the greek it doesn't say Jesus was begotten. And remember as a human being He was begotten, and in the image of God. But as for His God nature He was, and is God.

Jesus was begotten in every way as far as Yahweh is concerned.......

Can the almighty be a man or be made a man??

Better go read your bible bro.....

How can God not know when the end will come but another God knew.......??

Better start thinking....

gbrookes02:

ADAM + EVE = 1 flesh.

Why something so simple is so hard for you all antitrinitarians to understand.

But adam was before eve....right??

And adam was greater than eve......

Did your brain not remind you of that??

and when adam and eve are said to be one flesh what does it mean??

Start explaining...fast!!!!!

ijawkid:

Jesus was begotten in every way as far as Yahweh is concerned.......

Can the almighty be a man or be made a man??

Better go read your bible bro.....

How can God not know when the end will come but another God knew.......??

Better start thinking....

If everything that was created and made were all created and made by Jesus then how could Jesus have being created unless He created Himself which is nonsense, Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3?

If Jesus is not God then what is the name that Matthew 28:19 speak of, and how do you explain 2 Peter 1:1 (New International Version) "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours", and Titus 2:13 (New International Version) "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"?

Why can't The Almighty enter into His creation and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man? Why? why? Why?

Jesus as far as where His human nature is concern did not know everything including the time of His return. But in His God nature as God He knew everything including the time of His return.

@all

Please, if we're going to use math, let us use it well. Math, I hold, is logic in figures. Therefore, math cannot contradict logic. Can we use the number 1 to represent God as to quantity? It is true that the number one is essentially unity, but given that we are addressing quantity exclusively, it would probably be wiser to treat it in its finite sense.

Therefore I hold that the correct mathematical quantity that represents God is infinity. As such, the math should rather be

infinity + infinity + infinity = ?

Obviously, it matters not how many infinities we add, infinity cannot be increased. So,

infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity

It is not at all contradictory that if there are multiple infinities, there is only one infinity. The reason would be that they are the same infinity. Because, if A is omniscient and B is omniscient and C is omniscient, they would have the exact same knowledge; if A is omnipotent and B is omnipotent and C is omnipotent, they would each be as powerful as the other. And so on. Their unity would be utterly perfect.

As such, the Bible can declare that there is one God, or one Lord in one breath and in another address three clearly separate Persons as God without contradicting itself.

When the Bible says, "hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord", it is speaking of a total, perfect unity such as a perfect man would experience in his body, soul and spirit. Now the contention of Unitarians is that there must be only one Infinity, but that is a no-starter because the Trinity does not hold that there is more than one Infinity. To speak of three Infinities is essentially to speak absurdity. The reason would be obvious if you employed the mathematics of sets. Three infinities would essentially mean three absolutely universal sets. That would mean one of two things: (1) that we are speaking of only one absolutely universal set or (2) there is no universal set. The latter makes no sense because there is no question as to the existence of a universal set.

The former is exactly the position of the Trinity. If three Persons are called God, they cannot be different Gods even if they are distinct Persons: they must essentially be the same God. Is this absurd? Not really. The answer lies in what God is. God is a Nature, just like humanity is, or like plant life is or like the stars (compare 1 Corinthians 15:39-41). As such, one or more "individuals" can possess it. As it is, Scriptures hold the existence of three Persons Who possess the God-Nature. And given the uniqueness of this Nature, which I believe I have described sufficiently, they cannot be considered to be three Gods, they're one God.

[quote author=Ihedinobi]@all

Please, if we're going to use math, let us use it well. Math, I hold, is logic in figures. Therefore, math cannot contradict logic. Can we use the number 1 to represent God as to quantity? It is true that the number one is essentially unity, but given that we are addressing quantity exclusively, it would probably be wiser to treat it in its finite sense.

Therefore I hold that the correct mathematical quantity that represents God is infinity. As such, the math should rather be

infinity + infinity + infinity = ?

Obviously, it matters not how many infinities we add, infinity cannot be increased. So,

infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity

absolute gibberish !!!!

gbrookes02:

If everything that was created and made were all created and made by Jesus then how could Jesus have being created unless He created Himself which is nonsense, Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3?

If Jesus is not God then what is the name that Matthew 28:19 speak of, and how do you explain 2 Peter 1:1 (New International Version) "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours", and Titus 2:13 (New International Version) "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"?

Why can't The Almighty enter into His creation and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man? Why? why? Why?

Jesus as far as where His human nature is concern did not know everything including the time of His return. But in His God nature as God He knew everything including the time of His return.

It seems u have forgotten that the almighty cannot be seen and cannot die.....did it escape your thoughts??

Did it??

The almighty does not need to come in human form because he is the almighty.....

No man can see the almighty and yet live...that is why the almighty sends his representatives.......

Now can you explain why the almighty who came to the earth didn't knw when the end will come??did he suffer from amnesia??

Jesus didn't create himself,he was created by Yahweh his God........

That is why Jesus is the image of Yahweh just as you and I are........

ijawkid:

But adam was before eve....right??

And adam was greater than eve......

Did your brain not remind you of that??

and when adam and eve are said to be one flesh what does it mean??

Start explaining...fast!!!!!

Go to page 9 at 4:05pm On Oct 10, and you will see where I address the meaning of one flesh. Adam was before Eve, and in authority he was greater than Eve.

gbrookes02:

If everything that was created and made were all created and made by Jesus then how could Jesus have being created unless He created Himself which is nonsense, Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3?

If Jesus is not God then what is the name that Matthew 28:19 speak of, and how do you explain 2 Peter 1:1 (New International Version) "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours", and Titus 2:13 (New International Version) "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"?

Why can't The Almighty enter into His creation and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man? Why? why? Why?

Jesus as far as where His human nature is concern did not know everything including the time of His return. But in His God nature as God He knew everything including the time of His return.

And the Bible says that He humbled Himself even to death. If He Who by Nature is greater than Death would submit Himself to its cold hands, would it be absurd to think that He could also submit Himself to limited knowledge even though He knew all things? The sacrifice that Jesus made for us is far more enormous than we tend to imagine and an attack on His Deity essentially treats that sacrifice with scorn. He didn't just die, He became a servant who Himself was Lord of all and in His servitude submitted even to the mastery of Death.

This is why I can never recognize anyone who attacks His Deity as a brother. Such a person spits on everything that Christianity is.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

When you can't defeat something or prove it to be wrong you just simple call it "absolute gibberish !!!!" that will do the sleight of hand trick non-argument. Frosbel you have mastered the sleight of hand trick non-argument art.

frosbel: absolute gibberish !!!!

But you're already discombobulated, aren't you? In fact, you're pretty close to lunacy, so what's so surprising about your inability to comprehend elementary math?

frosbel: absolute gibberish !!!!

Frosbel, stop attacking Ihedinobi and START addressing "issue/topic" please. It doesn't make sense to you doesn't make it unbiblical. You have even said Jesus is NOT God amounting to denying the deity of the Son. I have called you to a debate where and how the Father (God) calls the Son, Jesus Christ God but you are closing your eyes to the truth. Leave personality out of this topic and let's treat topic. Kindly go and answer my questions on the other thread. Thank you.