Joagbaje: Tithing was never brought to an end. There's no single scripture that's says that .

Joagbaje: Pastors didn't change it to money. People still gave money in bible days , as tithes , they gave money equivalent of the value of wounded animals etc. people still give tithes of material things today. People mostly give cash because it's a general medium of exchange . Israelites were primarily farmers. Their proceeds were usually used for services in the terbernaclre. I can give material thing as tithe. A laptop dealer can give laptop as tithe since the church may need it. Same goes for generator or give money equivalent

Joagbaje: Pastors didn't change it to money.

Joagbaje: People still gave money in bible days , as tithes ,

Joagbaje: they gave money equivalent of the value of wounded animals etc.

Joagbaje: People mostly give cash because it's a general medium of exchange . Israelites were primarily farmers.

Joagbaje: I can give material thing as tithe.

ogoamaka99: @FROSBEL,
MY DEAR FROSBEL, YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT LACK OF SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE HAD MADE YOU TO BE CONFUSED AND SUCH IS CONFUSING OTHERS. FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY CAN'T YOU LEARN TO DEFFERENIATE BETWEEN WHAT IS TITHE AND WHAT IS FREEWILL OFFERING?. THE TWO VERSES QUOTED ABOVE HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH TITHE AS THE VERSES ARE TALKING ABOUT FREEWILL OFFERING.

Joagbaje: It's a sin to judge others intention wrongfully. If you claim those who Belive in tithe are wrong Based on your own belief no problem. We all have right to what we Belive . but if you claim those who teach on tithing are fraudulent. You are sinning. Because no man will use the name of God for fraud. Every one work according to their conviction. Every man has right to his conviction . A man who serve christ with wrong motive should be left for judgement day . Tithes or church money doesnt belong to the pastor. A pastor is not a tithe collector . The same way bank money doesn't belong to the bank manager. When you miss the basic foundation here all your conclusion will be wrong too. People give tithes based on their understanding and they should not be persecuted for their belief .

Image123: hahahaha, see as Jo dey tutor my people this Sunday school. cool stuff. have you paid your tithe?
it's just unfortunate all these thing na repetition, points answered now will still be asked another afresh again.

petres_007:

@Joagbaje,

Although you haven't shifted position on this matter (and never will, unless CE does), you come accross to me as having mellowed down a bit o. Just my impression

Here's my response to your post:




This is outright false! And you just proved it here with the usual excuse of ancient Israel being agrarian. God never allowed for money to be turned in as tithe - never. The Clergy "helped" God out with that part and this is why it doesn't hold up - it is a man-made modification to the biblical model, under which it was always agricultural produce from the holy land of Israel!




This too, is absolute falsehood!

See, I don't know how you people can so easily add to God's Word, despite multiple biblical warnings against such!

1 “And now, Israel Church, listen carefully to these laws and regulations that I am about to teach you. Obey them so that you may live, so you may enter and occupy the land the LORD, the God of your ancestors, is giving you.

2 Do not add to or subtract from these commands I am giving you from the LORD your God. Just obey them. – Deut 4:1-2 (NLT).


6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar. - Pro 30:6 (NIV)


If truly people did give money as their tithes in bible days, I challenge you or anyone to provide book, chapter and verse as proof! A single bible verse/passage would do.




Please provide book, chapter and verse for this as well. Anyone can claim anything. Please provide biblical proof!




Money was already the medium of exchange way before God gave the law to Moses! The bible tells us that when Abraham needed land to use as burying place, he bought a piece of land in exchange for money - not cattle or any other form of agricultural produce! And he did that because money was their general medium of exchange, not cattle/farm produce. Although one may argue that the barter system was not entirely phased out at the time. See Genesis 23:12-16

Abraham's account took place well over 400 years before Moses was even born - over 4 centuries! Think about that.




This isn't about what you can give as tithe. You can do whatever you please. It is about what God instructed to be brought to him as tithe!

And just in case you resort to saying either God, Moses or the Israelites did not know money existed or was used as medium of exchange, see this excerpt from an article series on tithing:

=========================================================================================

Fact #2 – According to the bible and Jewish history, the tithe was never money – only edible items!

Every single biblical and historical reference to tithing either directly or indirectly limited it to only edible items. See; Lev. 27:30, 32, Num. 18:27, Num. 18:28, Deut 12:17, Deut. 14:22, Deut. 14:23, Deut. 26:12, 2 Chron. 31:5, 2 Chron. 31:6, Neh. 10:37, Neh. 13:5, Mal. 3:10 & Matt. 23:23 (verses where the word “tithe” is used in the bible).

For years, advocates of Christian tithing spread the lie that God’s insistence on Agricultural produce was because money did not exist! Or maybe God didn’t know it did. Well, here’s my response to that, using the bible alone (there’s even more evidence from both Jewish & secular history):

Well over 400 years before Moses, Abraham had to buy a portion of land with a cave in it for use as a burial place and paid money in exchange for it!

12 Then Abraham bowed himself down before the people of the land;

13 and he spoke to Ephron in the hearing of the people of the land, saying, “If you will give it, please hear me. I will give you money for the field; take it from me and I will bury my dead there.”

14 And Ephron answered Abraham, saying to him,

15 “My lord, listen to me; the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver. What is that between you and me? So bury your dead.”

16 And Abraham listened to Ephron; and Abraham weighed out the silver for Ephron which he had named in the hearing of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, currency of the merchants. – Genesis 23: 12-16 (NKJV)

So money existed at least four centuries before Moses! God was aware of this, so was Moses and the rest of the Hebrews. Yet every single reference to the tithe, throughout the bible, directly or indirectly indicates its content – edible items – food!

If God wanted money as tithes from the Israelites, he would simply have said so!

As a matter of fact, he did mention money once in relation to tithing. The only time he ever did:

24 “But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you,

25 “then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.

26 “And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. – Deuteronomy 14: 24-26 (NKJV)

This commandment had to do with the second tithe which was to be eaten in Jerusalem. When an Israelite who’d been particularly blessed by God, lived far away from Jerusalem and had too much to carry with him as tithe to the feast, God graciously permitted he sell his tithe in exchange for money, take the money with him to Jerusalem and when he got there, hand the money over to the Levites as his tithe? No! He was to spend the tithe money on whatever kind of food and drink he wanted for himself and those with him for celebrations! He was allowed to buy anything – whatever his heart desired – even strong (alcoholic) drink!

God never required the Jews to give money as tithe!

=========================================================================================

Source: Israel, the Church & the Tithing Ordinance Part III – Strange Facts About Tithing - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance-part-iii-strange-facts-about-tithing/

The full article series - Israel, the Church & the Tithing Ordinance - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance/

Joagbaje: Tithing was never brought to an end. There's no single scripture that's says that .

Zikkyy:

Tithe as commandment was brought to an end, with plenty of scripture verse to support this. What that means is that rendering of tenth is @ the discretion of the individual giving it. It's no different from other form of giving. What is a crime is the pastor teaching tithe as commandment. Tithing as preached today is the creation of man and influenced by greed.

frosbel:

which is why it is our duty to put Jo and co out of business !

Zikkyy:

Tithe as commandment was brought to an end, with plenty of scripture verse to support this. What that means is that rendering of tenth is @ the discretion of the individual giving it. It's no different from other form of giving. What is a crime is the pastor teaching tithe as commandment. Tithing as preached today is the creation of man [size=15pt]and influenced by greed.[/size]

Zikkyy:

Tithe as commandment was brought to an end, with plenty of scripture verse to support this. What that means is that rendering of tenth is @ the discretion of the individual giving it. It's no different from other form of giving. What is a crime is the pastor teaching tithe as commandment. Tithing as preached today is the creation of man and influenced by greed.

Goshen360:

New International Version (©1984)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. [size=15pt]But you[/size], man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 1 Timothy 6:10-11

frosbel:

at least we can agree on something !

Joagbaje: Pastors didn't change it to money. People still gave money in bible days , as tithes , they gave money equivalent of the value of wounded animals etc. people still give tithes of material things today. People mostly give cash because it's a general medium of exchange . Israelites were primarily farmers. Their proceeds were usually used for services in the terbernaclre. I can give material thing as tithe. A laptop dealer can give laptop as tithe since the church may need it. Same goes for generator or give money equivalent

Brother, with respect....what tutoring is Joagbaje giving to us? You and I have debated this subject in the past. All scriptural evidence abound till this day. God's biblical tithing (crops and animal) had even come to an end, not to talk of monetary tithing!

Image123:
He is stating the simple truth in plain format. God's Word has not come to an end.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
ALL SCRIPTURE remain given by inspiration, and profitable for doctrine and for instruction. The issue is never with the law, for the law is good and holy. The issue is with what we do with the law. In the OT, the law was kept to be righteous. In the NT, it is discovered that you can't keep the law. You have to first be righteous, then keep the law. Until each person understand these basics, there will continue to be/remain a stumbling and a veil. It has already been shown in other threads that Leviticus made provisions for giving tithe in monetary form. All the gra gra people are doing here, and trying to confuse people that tithe is meant to be eaten by the owner is incomplete and misleading information. they are not too different from the ones they accuse as scammers and frauds. i hope to rest my case.

Image123:
He is stating the simple truth in plain format. God's Word has not come to an end.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
ALL SCRIPTURE remain given by inspiration, and profitable for doctrine and for instruction. The issue is never with the law, for the law is good and holy. The issue is with what we do with the law. In the OT, the law was kept to be righteous. In the NT, it is discovered that you can't keep the law. You have to first be righteous, then keep the law. Until each person understand these basics, there will continue to be/remain a stumbling and a veil. It has already been shown in other threads that Leviticus made provisions for giving tithe in monetary form. All the gra gra people are doing here, and trying to confuse people that tithe is meant to be eaten by the owner is incomplete and misleading information. they are not too different from the ones they accuse as scammers and frauds. i hope to rest my case.

Image123:
In the OT, the law was kept to be righteous. In the NT, it is discovered that you can't keep the law. You have to first be righteous, then keep the law.

Image123:
He is stating the simple truth in plain format. God's Word has not come to an end.

Zikkyy:
Jo is not always truthful when it comes to cashflow.

plappville:

Bros, Is tithe not for the Jews only just like the Sabbath is? am just wondering

Zikkyy:

Tithe as commandment was brought to an end, with plenty of scripture verse to support this.

What that means is that rendering of tenth is @ the discretion of the individual giving it. It's no different from other form of giving. What is a crime is the pastor teaching tithe as commandment. Tithing as preached today is the creation of man and influenced by greed.

D sage:

Tithe according to the book of leviticus 27:30 is mandatory for every christians.

Zikkyy:

Jo is not always truthful when it comes to cashflow. Jo can never be honest when it comes to the issue of tithe. Can you imagine Jo saying peeps in the biblical days gave money as tithe It's easy to know when Jo is not stating the truth (or when he's not sure of what he is saying); he simply disappears Jo will not post here until sometime in December or January 2013.

petres_007:

@Joagbaje,

Although you haven't shifted position on this matter (and never will, unless CE does),

you come accross to me as having mellowed down a bit o. Just my impression

Here's my response to your post:
This is outright false! And you just proved it here with the usual excuse of ancient Israel being agrarian. God never allowed for money to be turned in as tithe - never. The Clergy "helped" God out with that part and this is why it doesn't hold up - it is a man-made modification to the biblical model, under which it was always agricultural produce from the holy land of Israel!

D sage:

Since we are no longer in Agrarian society, I think tithe should be measure/paid in term/form of money.

Most of you guys especially Goshen360 are so stingy with money.

The reasons behind this thread is unwillingness of op and his friends on this thread to release/pay 10% of their hard earned money to church/ God ministry.

Joagbaje:

Why not study scriptures instead of criticizing Jo.



Dont get personal . Let's get scriptural



I only decided to stop contributing to tithe thread because it's an unending circle. We should redeem time. Especially knowing that most of those who attack church structures are not in the church. Some are unsaved and some are sheep without shepherd . So I will rather want to engage them about salvation and submission . Heb 10:25 and Heb 13:17



People turned tithes in to money for several reasons. One of them is for redemption of maimed animals. God doesn't accept blind ,maimed etc. and if that happens to be your tithe. You have to redeem it with money.

Numbers 18:16
And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.

Leviticus 22:24
Ye shall not offer unto the Lord that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.

Malachi 1:8
And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.

chiteny:



D sage, even in the so called "Agrarian" economy, people still were engaged in other profession and made lots of physical cash from their services/skills. Except you want to tell me that there were no carpenters, bricklayers, goldsmiths, jesters, etc who got paid money directly for their services. So the question to you is this, why did God not command these people to pay up their tithes (10% of their income) as well? God is not foolish. He had a reason for that and they were stated in the same passages where he told them how to tithe. Good enough you said "i think tithe should......" There is no biblical proof to this assertion. The only thing that gets me all worked up is that the pastors tell you this is what God says instead of what they think about the situation.

I for one (and some others i have met) give more than the so called tithers. I don't base my giving to the church or God's ministry on 10% (and yes i give to the church or pastor, but based on my conviction and not on coercion). I personally fancy giving to a course i can see how my "hard earned" money is being utilized like to give directly in kind or cash to widows, orphanage homes, flood victims, strangers in need, etc. I know they need my "hard earned money" more than the pastors, as they are usually forgotten in today's modern christian religious practices.

Sorry i wrote so much. was writing as it came to my mind.

Joagbaje:

Abraham wasn't a Jew . He was a tither.

Pastor Kun:

So going by Abraham's example I can pay tithes only once in my life time when I get a windfall.