wiegraf:

Mine is nothing special, and told before. But since I'm vain and like to think the world revolves around me, here it is again

Never really religious. Never prayed 5x a day, never fasted the full 30, etc. They even killed a goat in my honor for memorizing what I thought was gibberish, but a year or two later I could remember maybe only fatiha (which I can't remember now sef) and some special cheat surahs/prayers. You know? Like the ones that could fast track you to heaven? I also did have a bit of the 'I can always repent, or go to hajj' mentality. I reasoned I could do little sins with abandon and make up for them later. Surely god wouldn't be that petty, no? But generally, I just never was religious. I've never really bought into the concept, fear was the only connection I had to it.

A thing of note though with my story was the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.

I have always been douchie, and frankly I can't say I was aware of raw, unconditional love us mere mortals are capable of until an altruist demonstrated this to me. At tremendous personal cost no less. My assumption was we're all d**ks, sky men included. The evidence seemed to be clearly heading in that direction; all of us d**ks just trying to get to heaven. Granted the odd fo.ol or sheeple that was useful only as a door mat existed, but they could be ignored as silly abberations. For most of us it was about pleasing an (usually angry) god, any one of them, the smart thing to do. Concerning ourselves only with our own petty self preservation. Society seemed to encourage this so surely it was ok, no? Who wants to be the f.ool that's left behind, hmmm? They'll probably laugh at me from heaven while I roast, "silly wiegraf, I told him so. Look at that fo.ol burn".

The kindness though of said person made me realize, "hmmm, there are genuinely kind and altruistic people who would die for total strangers on this planet? Interesting. And here I am being a full time d**k". As I was never really a theist and was just being held back by fear, the bravery of altruists to do what is right regardless of repurcursion, personal injury, loss etc, finally gave me the courage to fully question religious beliefs, dogma, etc. And once I got by the fear their cases were paper thin at best. For instance, when I compare a mere mortals actions with those of a supposed omnipotent that does naught about evil, I have to wonder to myself, wtf? The problem of evil becomes too conspicuous to ignore. Other issues I'd been ignoring became unavoidable as well of course.

Irony to all this being the main person that inspired my last step is religious. He didn't grow up in a religious household though, so his altruism is probably in built. And his actions were not based on some sort of religious obligation. Religion or no, that's just the nature of many of us. We don't have to be d**ks it seems. Looking back now though it's rather clear I've come across many others like him, just never noticed. The official story being whispered into my ears was one of petty hate, and this was indeed aided by religion for me. I'm personally very glad to have gotten rid of that

musKeeto: @weigraf:

I still wonder why it's difficult for most theists to understand that one cane be 'good/altruistic' for the sake of being good. I was always sort of that person, and when I became Christian, that disdn't change much. I put my tithes to much better use, and also ran some computer classes for the 'youth' group members for a while from my own pocket....

I read mazaje's spag theory recently and I tend to concur with it.

mazaje:

It is called self projecting yourself as god(SPAG). . .It is the phenomenon through which believers, when trying to ascribe a personality and wishes to their chosen god, tend to arrive at something that is oddly similar to what they themselves think and feel. The bible contains a lot of paradoxical statements, conflicting accounts that cannot be unraveled and many contradictions. It also has commands that some christian do not wish to obey and descriptions of god that the some christian do not want to worship so the christian will now have to formulate a way to accpet the bible without rejecting it completely because of the very strong indoctrination that was imposed on him/her. . . .What each Christian is telling you in her or his own way, is that he or she is god because christians can’t reject the bible entirely.

Here is how it goes. . . .

OLADEGBUU believes god is a judging and harsh god. He searches the scriptures and finds evidence of this god and so evaluates those scriptures that back up his belief as more important doctrinally than those scriptures that do not espouse this view point.

Jesoul believes god is a caring and loving "mothering" type of god. She finds scriptures that support her supposition and considers those scriptures more important than all others in a doctrinal sense. Her view of god is supported by scripture but also by her own view of "who god should be" and "what behavior god should exhibit".

Both OLADEGBUU and Jesoul believe that their view is correct. They believe that god is the way he is because it is the type of god they have "sought out" of the scripture. In actuality they have SPAGed or self-projected as god. They have put their own desires and values onto their deity. They then have found "evidence" of this type of god in whatever holy book they think is accurate.

This is proved by looking at what type of church people choose to attend. No one goes to a church with which they disagree. Everyone goes to the type of church that they most agree with. A church where the pastor and most members SPAG in a similar way to themselves.

This is the only "true" god. The SPAGed one. It (god) exists within the imagination of the god-believer. Thus the many christians who claim others (who don't have a similar doctrine to theirs) are not true christians while other christians (who do believe similarly to them) are in fact, true christians.

Ishilove:
Good heavens...so much d**ks in this narration. I can barely make head or tail out of this 'testimony'. Seems like you were mumbling aloud to yourself as you typed. Or like you were high on something.

Not hating, bro. Jus making an observation.

wiegraf: @mos
Oh yes, I saw that as well. Very delicious

wiegraf:

And your story is indeed very delicious. As in it wouldn't take much for you to turn pro

wiegraf:

You don't like d1cks? Good for you. Do you want a reward now? Like say cabin biscuits?

fellis: Wow.
This just happened to show up on my followers list and it captured my attention.
I had wanted to ask you what led to your convertion before the YM correspondence thing died.






You were never a Muslim.........just a follower of rules.......

Ishilove:
Put a sock on it and stowe it.

BTW, sarcasm is lost on me. Nota bene.

obadiah777: WIEGRAF I WOULDNT PUT YOU DOWN FOR SOMEONE FROM A MUSLIM HOUSEHOLD. I WOULD PUT YOU DOWN FOR SOMEONE FROM A FREE-THINKING HOUSEHOLD. ABSTRACT.

Logicboy03:


I swear, i never knew you were a muslim before! You seemed more like an ex-christian!


We learn eveyrday

wiegraf:

They don't bite, try it out sometime. It might do your silly a$$ some good

wiegraf:

It's not your fault, I can't remember being muslim at all. The psychologist said something like the experience was so painful my brain has wiped it out on purpose. Some sort of amnesia as a defense mechanism or something

musKeeto:
Lol, there was another lad on here sometime back, his username escapes my memory now. He shared some similar experience, yeah, I remember another one avicenna or something...

I never thought I'd be grateful for growing up in a Christian family. Truth be told, christianity grew up quite quickly... Old testament in Nigeria... Hmmm...

Thank God for Jesus...

Ishilove:
Hahaha, no wierdgraf, believe me when I say you don't want to get into a war of words with me; you so bloody don't.

Besides,this isn't the thread for that. I will deal with you another time, another thread.

Jerk.

frosbel: please do not derail , it has been going well so far and promises to make for good debate and reading, thanks.

wiegraf:

Really, I do admire bits of the Jesus legend. For instance, I actually capitalize his name, unlike his oga lol. There are question marks, but for its time it really was awesome. He's earned my respect. Just the Jesus stories, message of love, etc though. The religious bits have always been, well..

wiegraf:

Even I agree spoiling what has turned out to be an awesome thread will be bad taste, so I'll leave you for now. But really, the bolded? I went out of my way to state I was a d1ck, so much so you complained about my using the word, then you b1tch about being slighted by a 'jerk'? What the 4k did you expect? I told you I was an a$$ didn't I? Don't you think you're being a bit mo.ronic, hmmm?

wiegraf:

An a$$ is gonna be an a$$. I'll be off now

frosbel: I also had some negative Christian testimonies which can be

viewed in Anony's thread on born again experiences' , to be quite honest my faith was

almost totally derailed , if not for the mercy and grace of GOD.

Let's have yours please

cyrexx:

Okay,


CONVERSION STORY
Well, I came from a good and loving Christian family. My parents are devout Baptists and they ensured that all their children were brought up in the true Christian way of life. i grew as a typical good Christian boy. I personally love going to church as a youngster and even go for mid-week services beyond the normal church attendance with my family. I am not exposed to a very rough lifestyle while growing up and this is not your typical “bad boy turned good” story. I love reading books I have lots of it. I am an introvert. I didn’t even experiment with alcohol, cigarette or “girls” like my mates, while growing up. But I still commit “regular” sins that most humans commit e.g. lying, coveteousness, pride etc

But in the life of every true Christian, there comes a time when you consciously dedicate your life to Christ following your full understanding and acceptance of the gospel message. This time came when I was in SS3 after reading this book “Delivered from the Powers of Darkness” by Emmannuel Eni. I cried to God and gave my life to Christ in my room after much prayer to God. Thereafter I felt peace that passeth understanding (Phil 4:7). I felt so peaceful and the weight of my sins was washed away and I was sure if I died anytime, heaven would be my home.

EXPERIENCES IN CHURCH
Following my born-again conversion experience, I immediately joined Deeper Life Bible Church in my area. At that time, I felt that I was not getting adequate spiritual nourishment from my Baptist Church. I bought lots of books and teaching tapes from pastor Kumuyi and other men of God. I really loved God (or what I sincerely believed was God) and was very zealous to please Him. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost after my “sanctification experience” and I was able to pray in unknown tongues.

When I gained admission into University of Ibadan, I joined BSF (Baptist Student Fellowship) and I became active there. I joined their prayer band (intercessory team) and I always participate in our mission outreaches to remote areas. I really loved who I believed was God at that time. Towards my final year, I joined the Word of faith movement (and I was with that brand of Christianity till I lost my faith). I have read most of Kenneth Hagin’s books

I continued like these till I graduated and did my NYSC and got a job. I was still a fervent Christian and I would say “God” was good to me.

I really took time to give you these boring details about my experiences in the church because the other day I was narrating my experience as an atheist on nairaland, a Christian was saying that I was never really a Christian in the first place. I don’t know their definition of what consistutes a true Christian.

DURATION AS A CHRISTIAN
I gave my life to Christ (I became a true born-again Christian) in August 1992 and I came to realise that Christ, God, Heaven, Hell, Sin and ALL other Christian concepts were all totally man-made constructs (I became an atheist) around May 2012.

Therefore I was a Christian for about twenty years

WHEN AND WHY I BEGAN TO LOSE FAITH
Although I did became an atheist around May last year (thanks mainly to Nairaland) I started having doubts about Christianity around 2006. Many things were just not right. It was roughly a year after I finished my NYSC. I still struggled with some besetting sins and I have some morbid fear that if I ever died at a time I didn’t repent from those sins, all my years of serving God wont matter and I will land in eternal hell fire. Everything I did before wont matter to God. (I wondered if I had been born into a muslim family, will I end up in eternal hell for not accepting Christ?)

This, to me, does not make sense and it is not divine justice but I am supposed to believe that god is a good god, when I know that he really is not good. I believed that god should have done something to ensure that no single human will end up in eternal hell, if indeed he is good. This morbid fear of hell was so great that I felt god is angry with me if ever commit a little sin and for not succeeding in getting all my family members to become born again christian. I felt that if anyone of them did end up in hell, it would be my fault for not being a perfect model of Christlikeness to them. This was so disturbing. I even had a dream where I went to hell fire and I met hideous demons tormenting me saying things like “we got you at last, hahahaha”. I woke up afraid. I prayed something like “God if I would backslide tomorrow, pls take my life today and pls don’t let me enter eternal hell fire for all eternity”.

I was motivated to deny myself so many things (e.g. I remained a virgin late into my adulthood) just to please this god who cares more for what goes on under people’s pants than what his faithful believers are going thru in their lives and wont answer their prayers of faith and stop their pain.



MY DECONVERSION STORY
My deconversion story continues with me as a struggling Christian trying to get rid of these besetting sins and with the morbid fear that death can catch me with those sins and I may end up in eternal hell (By the way, which kind of a wicked god will send you to eternal hell for acting out on the same human nature he created you with)

I also had several sad life experiences which I wont share here. (I cant give too much personal stuffs on a public forum, you can message me if you want to talk me, thanks) Those sad life experiences affected me so much that I asked myself that if there is a god who answers prayers, things should have gone differently in my life and in the world, cos, I, as well as many God believers really prayed with faith in God’s word during those times we need him. If someone up there really loves humans and listen to their prayers, people won’t suffer unncecessarily. I began to secretly hate god and yet I loved him, if you know what I mean. Those times I am someone you will call an agnostic Christian. Part of me believe there is Yahweh who exists as the unquestionable sovereign god, while part me questions if there is really a good god who gives a damnn what happens to humans. This is a great cognitive dissonance.

Then I read this epic thread on nairaland by Avicenna about him giving up on god and religion, saying he is now free. And I realised I am not the only one with these cognitive dissonance. Many people know that these concepts of god do not make sense but they keep on believing because they fear punishment from Yahweh or Allah for not believing. (Again which kind of wicked god will give you brains to reason and discourage you from using it lest you lose your salvation). Yahweh demands faith and discourage critical thinking and reason.

The last shreds of my faith in god was torn away when I discovered how Christianity was started by human beings and how Jesus was turned into a heroic godman and how Christian doctrines evolved over the two millennia and how the books of the bible were selected and rejected and when I realised that belief in God was not necessary to explain the realities and the complexities of this world and when I realised that Yahweh was just a Jewish tribalistic god like our own Obatala or Orunmila (I am Yoruba). I also made other discoveries. I watched several documentaries and videos on youtube. I read many other books during this time but two (and I also have their pdf) really made impact on me: End of Faith by Sam Harris and Godless by Dan Barker which really gave me a chance to think outside the construct of Christian dogma for the first time in my life. Dan Barker was a former preacher who came to somewhat the same realisations as I did. Since then I have been educating myself on Christianity, religion, philosophy, science and humanities.

Indeed I was able to say with Avicenna, I gave up Christianity and god and I am free. No longer do I have to make sense of what is senseless (Christian religious belief) because Christianity was totally man-made and human errors abound in the so-called word of god. I realised that those so-called spiritual experiences I had in christianity (e.g. peace that passeth understanding, speaking in tongues etc were purely human experiences under certain conditions which is reproducible outside Christianity) You won’t see this until you step out of christianity’s brainwash and dogmatic grip and think for yourself for the first time without the fear of offending Yahweh by questioning things.

So frosbel dear, that’s the story of my life with respect to religion and god.

reloboy: Congratulating an Atheist Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him. My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.

reloboy: Congratulating an Atheist Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him. My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.
Read more at
http://ilovezakirnaik.com/comparative_religion/atheism.htm

Image123: I remember solemnly warning muskeet to desist from the path to backsliding but he didn't heed. each individual makes his own decision of spiritual life and death, and has no one else to blame on the last day.