hisblud: @bolaino >was it all conspiracy theories that caused your belief to be cemented on assumed "pseudo-god" christians worship?

bros see ur grammar, lol, but I'm not really into conspiracy theories, and I did'nt come to these conclusions about jesus being mythical as a result of conspiracy theories, I carried out detailed research, although there is always an element of truth, in conspiracy,

bolaino: bros see ur grammar, lol, but I'm not really into conspiracy theories, and I did'nt come these conclusions about jesus being mythical as a result of conspiracy theories, I carried out detailed research, although there is always an element of truth, in conspiracy,

yes bros its deliberate. If you reread it carefully you would definately see what i was asking from my post. On your research, apart from the web links you gave, did you consult a different view as well? And if yes, you can as well show such links.

well, thanks be to God because tomorrow, you will work trmendiously for christ. i'm sure he will use you.

"i was found by those who were not looking for me"

you will preach the gospel of christ you tried to mock.
mark my word

Ihedinobi:

It's too early to cop out, son. I'm sure freethinkers know what critical thinkers are. Critical thinkers don't swallow unsubstantiated or unverified claims. You see, I know, being one myself

Now, do get to work and prove that there's something in all those claims you made. Then we'll know you deserve the attention you're asking for.

Ihedinobi. I'm sorry to say dis but you really don't sound like a critical thinker. There's absolutely no how a critical thinker does not end up a free thinker. How to you maintain critical thoughts if your thought pattern is Limited by religion
As a critical thinker, it requires your to question things that don't have substantive evidence.

You are requesting for evidence of Jesus's non-existece while you don't even bother about the proof of his existence.
Till today the only proof I get is FAITH and nothing more. Its not good enuf

A magician can trick you to belive d existence of jesus with his tricks but is it sufficient? I said this becos dis is wat applies to us hia in Africa.

My mind is free becos of critical thinking dat open my eyes to so many bible contradiction.
Let's all be carefull and not put our brain to waste

ezme:

Really I thought the doctrine of a virgin birth was unique to just Jesus Christ. I bet many Christians believe so too.

Krishna: "He was apparently the son of a King's sister. Lest a rival to the throne arise, the king had been killing all newborn royal children(Sound Familiar). But God incarnated himself in the womb of the King's sister, and Krishna, having thus been born without the intervention of man, was secretly transferred by divine hand to the family of a lowly herdsman".

hisblud: yes bros its deliberate. If you reread it carefully you would definately see what i was asking from my post. On your research, apart from the web links you gave, did you consult a different view as well? And if yes, you can as well show such links.

yes bros I consulted different views before I arrived at my conclusions,But about showing u the links to these sites it's gon be kinda difficult cos I did most of my research in libraries not on the internet, and I arrived at my conclusions after careful and extraordinary scrutiny of the bible, but if u want a detailed site where u can see thousands of biblical contradictions u can visit this site, www.skepticsannotatedbible.org. You could search for books online written by a woman named archaya s murdoch, or read books by renown atheist richard dawkin, and not forgetting a book that helped too, a book by mangasarian, titled, the truth about jesus, is he a myth?

Inova:

Ihedinobi. I'm sorry to say dis but you really don't sound like a critical thinker. There's absolutely no how a critical thinker does not end up a free thinker. How to you maintain critical thoughts if your thought pattern is Limited by religion
As a critical thinker, it requires your to question things that don't have substantive evidence.

How interesting!

So, am I doing different than questioning things that don't have substantive evidence in my response to the op?

Or have I described critical thinking to be different than you're positing here?

Besides, I'm yet to see how critical thinking which is what human intelligence ordinarily is turns into this thing you folk call "freethinking". Y'all keep claiming it does and none of you has bothered to prove that it indeed does. Same thing with your claim that religion limits thought.

You are requesting for evidence of Jesus's non-existece while you don't even bother about the proof of his existence.
Till today the only proof I get is FAITH and nothing more. Its not good enuf

Like I said, it's too early for cop-outs. If you buy into the op's claims, the onus lies on you to substantiate them.

When I make my own claims, you may take me to task over them.

A magician can trick you to belive d existence of jesus with his tricks but is it sufficient? I said this becos dis is wat applies to us hia in Africa.

I'm lost here. Wanna explain what you're talking about?

My mind is free becos of critical thinking dat open my eyes to so many bible contradiction.
Let's all be carefull and not put our brain to waste

The wonder of this "freethinking" you guys are always on about is that it seems to compel you to make just about any claim you wish and expect everybody else to swallow it on your say-so.

Well, life don't work like that, man. If you claim that your mind is free because you can't reconcile parts of a book, don't demand that I applaud your intelligence because critical thinking tells me that it is very possible that the problem might be your poor cognitive ability rather than the book itself.

@bolaino

It'd be nice at some point to see some evidence of this "detailed and exhaustive research" you carried out. All we have right now is your say-so that you did and that doesn't quite mean anything here.

Ihedinobi:

How interesting!

So, am I doing different than questioning things that don't have substantive evidence in my response to the op?

Or have I described critical thinking to be different than you're positing here?

Besides, I'm yet to see how critical thinking which is what human intelligence ordinarily is turns into this thing you folk call "freethinking". Y'all keep claiming it does and none of you have bothered to prove that it indeed does. Same thing with your claim that religion limits thought.



Like I said, it's too early for cop-outs. If you buy into the op's claims, the onus lies on you to substantiate them.

When I make my own claims, you may take me to task over them.



I'm lost here. Wanna explain what you're talking about?



The wonder of this "freethinking" you guys are always on about is that it seems to compel you to make just about any claim you wish and expect everybody else to swallow it on your say-so.

Well, life don't work like that, man. If you claim that your mind is free because you can't reconcile parts of a book, don't demand that I applaud your intelligence because critical thinking tells me that it is very possible that the problem might be your poor cognitive ability rather than the book itself.

I understand where you're coming from but let me try to put things in perspective for u, freethinkers are not supposed to be bias, and as somebody who frEethinks he/she should be able to change his stance on issues when new evidence or new information comes to discredit the previous knowledge about something that was accepted as right, a freethinker is not dogmatic, a freethinker follows evidence where ever evidence takes him/her, a freethinker rationalizes everything that is brought to him/her, freethinkers might believe in jesus tomorrow if his existence can be proved beyond reasonable doubt, but these qualities I have mentioned are lacking in a believer, a believer believes without evidence, and is even encouraged by the bible, "blessed are those that believe without seeing" this is a plea to credulity a plea to ignorance, if I told u that by tomorrow I'll wire 20 million dollars to your account, and that all u have to do is just believe, a freethinker would reason this out thoroughly and see that it's very unlikely for me to send u that money tomorrow, but a believer would believe without thinking critically about my promise, so to summarize this, FREETHINKERS THINK, WHILE BELIEVERS BELIEVE,

Ihedinobi: @bolaino

It'd be nice at some point to see some evidence of this "detailed and exhaustive research" you carried out. All we have right now is your say-so that you did and that doesn't quite mean anything here.

lol, bros u no won gree for me, lol, well let me ask, if I show u these researches that I've carried out and u see that I am able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there is no historical jesus, will u be willing to shift grounds?

Van snickers:

Krishna: "He was apparently the son of a King's sister. Lest a rival to the throne arise, the king had been killing all newborn royal children(Sound Familiar). But God incarnated himself in the womb of the King's sister, and Krishna, having thus been born without the intervention of man, was secretly transferred by divine hand to the family of a lowly herdsman".

Many questions are begging to be answered on the similarities between this story and the story of Jesus. But I'll take for granted thay the stories are similar instead so that I can ask you a few other questions.

I'm curious how you're sure that Jesus's story is an adaptation of this story and not the other way around.

Besides, is it utterly impossible that the story was an expression of the hope that all men harbor that God would come down into our situation to experience all that we do and help us? A hope that was realized in Jesus Christ?

Perhaps I'll ask you more questions but we could deal with these ones first.

Ihedinobi:

Many questions are begging to be answered on the similarities between this story and the story of Jesus. But I'll take for granted thay the stories are similar instead so that I can ask you a few other questions.

I'm curious how you're sure that Jesus's story is an adaptation of this story and not the other way around.

Besides, is it utterly impossible that the story was an expression of the hope that all men harbor that God would come down into our situation to experience all that we do and help us? A hope that was realized in Jesus Christ?

Perhaps I'll ask you more questions but we could deal with these ones first.

pls if I may, the stories about the krishna and everyother that is similar to the one with jesus all predate before the time of jesus, jesus is supposed to have come 2,000 years ago, but some of these stories go about 3,000 thousand years ago and some of dem date further back, if u check some of the links I provided u'll understand better. Ask on, my good man,

bolaino: I understand where you're coming from but let me try to put things in perspective for u, freethinkers are not supposed to be bias, and as somebody who frEethinks he/she should be able to change his stance on issues when new evidence or new information comes to discredit the previous knowledge about something that was accepted as right, a freethinker is not dogmatic, a freethinker follows evidence where ever evidence takes him/her, a freethinker rationalizes everything that is brought to him/her, freethinkers might believe in jesus tomorrow if his existence can be proved beyond reasonable doubt, but these qualities I have mentioned are lacking in a believer, a believer believes without evidence, and is even encouraged by the bible, "blessed are those that believe without seeing" this is a plea to credulity a plea to ignorance, if I told u that by tomorrow I'll wire 20 million dollars to your account, and that all u have to do is just believe, a freethinker would reason this out thoroughly and see that it's very unlikely for me to send u that money tomorrow, but a believer would believe without thinking critically about my promise, so to summarize this, FREETHINKERS THINK, WHILE BELIEVERS BELIEVE,

Sounds to me like you're saying that "freethinkers" know nothing for sure and go with whatever's trending at any moment. That's interesting.

And before you try to make a song out of evidence, man, evidence must mean something to matter. A freethinker who says he follows evidence would be a rather curious fellow if he is found believing one thing today because evidence backs it and then believing the opposite tomorrow because new evidence backs it.

There must be something immutable that evidence hinges on to make any kind of sense and encourage confidence. What does the freethinker's erratic evidence hinge on?

And please, try to stop typing like this. It's wearying to the eyes. I might not read it next time.

bolaino: lol, bros u no won gree for me, lol, well let me ask, if I show u these researches that I've carried out and u see that I am able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there is no historical jesus, will u be willing to shift grounds?

You need me to make a bet before you finish your arguments?

bolaino: pls if I may, the stories about the krishna and everyother that is similar to the one with jesus all predate before the time of jesus, jesus is supposed to have come 2,000 years ago, but some of these stories go about 3,000 thousand years ago and some of dem date further back, if u check some of the links I provided u'll understand better. Ask on, my good man,

Well, my friend, Jesus's story has been well known since the time of prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah at least. I think that's more than three thousand years.

Really, you have a lot of work to do to be suffering another man's headache. Perhaps you should get to it.

And stop talking about your links already, you haven't justified the need for anyone to peruse them. And since you apparently do not know, most of those links and the names you dropped are well-known around these parts.

Ihedinobi:

Well, my friend, Jesus's story has been well known since the time of prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah at least. I think that's more than three thousand years.

Really, you have a lot of work to do to be suffering another man's headache. Perhaps you should get to it.

And stop talking about your links already, you haven't justified the need for anyone to peruse them. And since you apparently do not know, most of those links and the names you dropped are well-known around these parts.

How would Jesus story be well known in the time of Isaiah and Jeremiah if Jesus came after them. A prophesy is not enough to take this stance. i disagree

I want to blive d post does not undastand d Bible and lack divine revelation.
No offense taken, but I wil advice u pray to God 4 indepth undastandin of Hiw word, wisdom to intepret d truth of His word and divine revelation to see d existence of God Almighty and His Son Jesus Christ...

ezme:

How would Jesus story be well known in the time of Isaiah and Jeremiah if Jesus came after them. A prophesy is not enough to take this stance. i disagree

And how is it not enough?

Ihedinobi:

Many questions are begging to be answered on the similarities between this story and the story of Jesus. But I'll take for granted thay the stories are similar instead so that I can ask you a few other questions.

I'm curious how you're sure that Jesus's story is an adaptation of this story and not the other way around.

Besides, is it utterly impossible that the story was an expression of the hope that all men harbor that God would come down into our situation to experience all that we do and help us? A hope that was realized in Jesus Christ?

Perhaps I'll ask you more questions but we could deal with these ones first.

The Gita, which is typically a Hindu Scripture; came into existence in between the 5th and 2nd centuries BC. According to Christian belief, Christ walked the earth about 2000 years ago. So obviously the Gita that brings to light the life of Krishna precedes Christ.

Van snickers:

The Gita, which is typically a Hindu Scripture; came into existence in between the 5th and 2nd centuries BC. According to Christian belief, Christ walked the earth about 2000 years ago. So obviously the Gita that brings to light the life of Krishna precedes Christ.

Well, the birth of Christ, the manner of it, was already known by prophecy long before then.

Ihedinobi:

Sounds to me like you're saying that "freethinkers" know nothing for sure and go with whatever's trending at any moment. That's interesting.

And before you try to make a song out of evidence, man, evidence must mean something to matter. A freethinker who says he follows evidence would be a rather curious fellow if he is found believing one thing today because evidence backs it and then believing the opposite tomorrow because new evidence backs it.

There must be something immutable that evidence hinges on to make any kind of sense and encourage confidence. What does the freethinker's erratic evidence hinge on?

And please, try to stop typing like this. It's wearying to the eyes. I might not read it next time.

it takes a man with a big heart to see that he is wrong and accept that he is wrong, freethinkers have a big heart, freethinkers don't go with the trend, but cos the most constant thing in life is said to be change, freehinkers take to change when it is necessary.

Nothing in this life can be 100% that's why in science no matter how accurate your result is it's value is set at 99.9%, imagine a doctor who was trained at a time when chloroquine was used in the treatment of malaria, and up till now with the invention of stronger and more effective drugs, still believe that chloroquine is still the best drug to treat malaria, that doctor is not competent,

We are in an ever changing world and we ought to accept these changes, no one man or no one book should claim to hold all the answers to the questions about life, the bible is a book that claims it is extraordinary and such it should be given extraordinary scrutiny.

Ihedinobi:

Well, the birth of Christ, the manner of it, was already known by prophecy long before then.

well that's one of the problems with biblical prophecies, the prophecies in the bible are so vague that anything could be linked with anything to arrive at a conclusion,

the prophecies of Isiah were referring to a man, not a son of God, the prophesy was referring to someone who would literally rule the jews as their king and bring terror on the enemies of isreal.

And since the credibility of the bible is at stake, these prophecies will not be given much tought to, cos there's no proof that these claims were authentic, the bible is good story book, and it should remain as such.

MATT. 22
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Ihedinobi:

And how is it not enough?

I don't think prophecies from the bible should be used for defense purposes in this discourse. I believe someone try to disprove Jesus would actually tend to reject the bible entirely.


This is by the way; I was reading Mark 16 last night(NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION) and when I got to Mark 16:8. I found this in Parenthesis [The earliest manuscripts and some other witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20].

This teaches me to suspect that someone saw the need to improve on what was initially available.

Mark 16:1-8 talks about Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James and Salome visiting Jesus' tomb.

Mark 16:9-20 talks about a risen Christ visiting the disciple, giving them the great commission and ascending into Heaven.

Do you realize that those practicing JUDAISM are still expecting the Messiah?

bolaino: And since the credibility of the bible is at stake, these prophecies will not be given much tought to, cos there's no proof that these claims were authentic, the bible is good story book, and it should remain as such.

Actually there are archaeological evidences, though Jewish archaeological evidence of the entire period is rather sparse. There are the remains of large and extensive Roman cities, and adequate inscriptions of leaders, including Herod, Pilate and Festus. There are also influential Jews such as Caiaphas, but almost nothing can be found recording the lives of ordinary individuals. And remember that in A.D. 70 Jerusalem was totally destroyed by Titus. What may still exist is buried under the thriving modern city. Certainly the odds are against an artifact's survival.

The scarcity of archaeological artifacts can be contrasted, however, with the wealth of historical evidence for Christ. Soon the apostles had written letters detailing Christ's life and teachings, to be followed by the writings of Paul all widely copied and circulated, within the lifetime of eyewitnesses. The Roman historian Josephus mentioned Christ several times while relating noteworthy civic events, including the execution of one named "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ/Messiah" referring evidently to Jesus' brother James, leader of the early church and author of the New Testament book bearing his name.

The new artifact is an ossuary, a medium-sized box in which human bones were placed for permanent burial after the flesh had all decayed away. This practice was employed for only a brief period of time from about B.C. 20 to A.D. 70. The box is made of a soft, chalky, limestone, common to the area. The contents have long since vanished.

Bidam:

Actually there are archaeological evidences, though Jewish archaeological evidence of the entire period is rather sparse. There are the remains of large and extensive Roman cities, and adequate inscriptions of leaders, including Herod, Pilate and Festus. There are also influential Jews such as Caiaphas, but almost nothing can be found recording the lives of ordinary individuals. And remember that in A.D. 70 Jerusalem was totally destroyed by Titus. What may still exist is buried under the thriving modern city. Certainly the odds are against an artifact's survival.

The scarcity of archaeological artifacts can be contrasted, however, with the wealth of historical evidence for Christ. Soon the apostles had written letters detailing Christ's life and teachings, to be followed by the writings of Paul all widely copied and circulated, within the lifetime of eyewitnesses. The Roman historian Josephus mentioned Christ several times while relating noteworthy civic events, including the execution of one named "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ/Messiah" referring evidently to Jesus' brother James, leader of the early church and author of the New Testament book bearing his name.

The new artifact is an ossuary, a medium-sized box in which human bones were placed for permanent burial after the flesh had all decayed away. This practice was employed for only a brief period of time from about B.C. 20 to A.D. 70. The box is made of a soft, chalky, limestone, common to the area. The contents have long since vanished.

I believe you've read lots of novels, in Shakespeare's books he makes references to places like london, venice, france and caLls names of popular rulers at that time, but does this makes the stories of Shakespeare true? No, cos it's fiction.

Apart from josephus, all contemporary writers at that time are quiet on the historical jesus, even philo a popular roman writer who wrote poems and books at the supposed time jesus entered jerusalem was quiet about jesus, the reason is obvious, cos there was no jesus in his time, and by the way jesus was a popular name at that time, yeshua/joshoua was and is still a popular hebrew name.

Were the isrealites in egypt? No, was solomon the wisest king at a time in the history of the world? There is no evidence to surport that claim, the bible makes a lot of claims that can not be verified, and thus it makes the bible nothing more than a Glorified story book.

ersparkle: @ op, just discovered this recentlymyself and right now, am still in a state of shock, to think i've belived a lie all these yrs! How could generations of pple be so easily fooled? Anyway, glad i finally know d truth.
My sincere advice to all xtians; think and ask urself, why do i believe what i believe? reason, think, use ur head, God gave u a brain to think, thinking is not a sin/crime. Don't believe anyone that tells u not to think tins over in the name of faith, that's a recepee for disaster. For those interested in hearing more of these truths, go to youtube and search for dr ray hagins,you'll be blown away by the truth.

freethinker, hu is dr ray hagin? What makes u think his youtube stuff is true?
Dnt b deceived.
There is one experiment i watched on youtube, i decided to carry it out bt its fake or sumtn, i dnt knw.
Its beta u accept wat u personally realized on urself than wat others said, as far as supernatural is concern

onyfrank:
freethinker, hu is dr ray hagin? What makes u think his youtube stuff is true?
Dnt b deceived.
There is one experiment i watched on youtube, i decided to carry it out bt its fake or sumtn, i dnt knw.
Its beta u accept wat u personally realized on urself than wat others said, as far as supernatural is concern

true story mann, true story, nice

bolaino: well that's one of the problems with biblical prophecies, the prophecies in the bible are so vague that anything could be linked with anything to arrive at a conclusion,

the prophecies of Isiah were referring to a man, not a son of God, the prophesy was referring to someone who would literally rule the jews as their king and bring terror on the enemies of isreal.

And since the credibility of the bible is at stake, these prophecies will not be given much tought to, cos there's no proof that these claims were authentic, the bible is good story book, and it should remain as such.

Kindly link some other person to it then instead of throwing words in the air. Jesus was and is the only relevant and accurate link and is spot on specific from birth to death.
i asked about counterfeit notes but you fellows dodged. I'll ask yet another. If a song or a film is pirated, stolen and sold before release. Are the pirated copies original simply because they were in the black market before the real/original?

@Image,
Pls I have a question for you at the Abraham father of Christians thread. Thx

Image123:
Kindly link some other person to it then instead of throwing words in the air. Jesus was and is the only relevant and accurate link and is spot on specific from birth to death.
i asked about counterfeit notes but you fellows dodged. I'll ask yet another. If a song or a film is pirated, stolen and sold before release. Are the pirated copies original simply because they were in the black market before the real/original?

of course not, but in the case of the birth of these deities do u have any proof that the story of jesus came first before theirs?

Alwaystrue: @Image,
Pls I have a question for you at the Abraham father of Christians thread. Thx

lol, e no get wetin person no go see for nairaland, lol, u dey pursue the guy from thread to thread? Lol,