SREPC0214: 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

dis is another problem with christianity, only jesus talk say he com die for sinners, only him go still dey talk say he don blind sinners eyes and harden their hearts lest they be converted and he go com heal them, that's really confusing.

bolaino: I had to respond to this, (so that conscience no go worry me)

Lol. Wetin conscience de worry you for, ehn, my guy?

yeah, you're an example of the problem with faith,

Is that so? What is this problem with faith?

and don't give me that critical thinking story, you're a believer,

Lol. Are you implying that critical thinking and believing are mutually exclusive?

and if you reason critically about your beliefs you'll see the obvious flaws in them,

I'm still under the impression that you started this thread to show everyone these obvious flaws. Why aren't we seeing them yet?

you claim your God/son is the original among all the GOD/sons, but have u ever reasoned what if u could be wrong? What if budha is the real God/son, the same conviction you have about your God/son is the same or even stronger conviction adherents of other religions have about their God/sons,

I don't think you mean to point the above out as a flaw that the Gospel of Christ has, or do you? It would be hilarious if you do.

Well, there is only one truth, man. It can't be every religion, it can't be more than one religion or one philosophy. So just as you're asking me 'what if you're wrong?' you should ask yourself 'what if I'm wrong?'

There's absolutely nothing I'll say to u that'll make u change your perspective about your beliefs,

Well, when you started making this excuse after I asked you to prove your claims, I told you that it was too early to make excuses. Do you see that instead of proving what you claimed, you have continued to make rather lame excuses to avoid showing why you believe (note that interesting word, I italicised it just for how interesting it is) your claims to be true?

Well, here you are, still with the same lame excuse.

I didn't ask you to make the claims you did, I shouldn't need to ask you to defend them. But, I respond just as you wanted some Christian to, and you say that you will not produce proof for your claims because I won't convert upon seeing it? The joke's not on me, my friend.

You make claims, you prove it. Don't makr excuses. If you can prove it and I fail to convert, I show myself by that failure to be truly brainwashed and deluded. Then the joke will be on me.

even in the presence of strong facts and evidence

Well, prove it by producing some actual strong facts and evidence.

so that's why I've not bothered to answer your questions, cos u said they've been answered on a previous post,

I said that? Where?

BUT one thing I would like you to reason CRITICALLY, is what if you're wrong? What if,

Well, I'd like you to also reason critically, not just freely o, what if you are wrong?

Ihedinobi:

Lol. Wetin conscience de worry you for, ehn, my guy?



Is that so? What is this problem with faith?



Lol. Are you implying that critical thinking and believing are mutually exclusive?



I'm still under the impression that you started this thread to show everyone these obvious flaws. Why aren't we seeing them yet?



I don't think you mean to point the above out as a flaw that the Gospel of Christ has, or do you? It would be hilarious if you do.

Well, there is only one truth, man. It can't be every religion, it can't be more than one religion or one philosophy. So just as you're asking me 'what if you're wrong?' you should ask yourself 'what if I'm wrong?'



Well, when you started making this excuse after I asked you to prove your claims, I told you that it was too early to make excuses. Do you see that instead of proving what you claimed, you have continued to make rather lame excuses to avoid showing why you believe (note that interesting word, I italicised it just for how interesting it is) your claims to be true?

Well, here you are, still with the same lame excuse.

I didn't ask you to make the claims you did, I shouldn't need to ask you to defend them. But, I respond just as you wanted some Christian to, and you say that you will not produce proof for your claims because I won't convert upon seeing it? The joke's not on me, my friend.

You make claims, you prove it. Don't makr excuses. If you can prove it and I fail to convert, I show myself by that failure to be truly brainwashed and deluded. Then the joke will be on me.



Well, prove it by producing some actual strong facts and evidence.



I said that? Where?



Well, I'd like you to also reason critically, not just freely o, what if you are wrong?

lol, my good man, you would make a very good freethinker, and I've set it as one of my goals to convert u to freethinking, na me and you for nairaland, u musto turn to freethinker, I'm going to answer all your questions, and I won't leave anyone unanswered,

From here https://www.nairaland.com/901638/why-many-black-people-including/2#10889512

Enigma: . . . . a true free thinker can believe in God and be a Christian, for example.

Enigma: From here https://www.nairaland.com/901638/why-many-black-people-including/2#10889512

it's impossible my mann, it's just like sAying u can have sex wit two women at the same time wit the same pen.is,

^^^ Na so!

A true free thinker does not need conspiracy theory websites and the like; he will be more discerning even if he looks at them. A true free thinker is always more likely to be a theist. Unsurprisingly, many of us Christians are true free thinkers.

bolaino: lol, my good man, you would make a very good freethinker, and I've set it as one of my goals to convert u to freethinking, na me and you for nairaland, u musto turn to freethinker, I'm going to answer all your questions, and I won't leave anyone unanswered,

i am waiting for these answers too, thatZ all

bolaino: lol, my good man, you would make a very good freethinker, and I've set it as one of my goals to convert u to freethinking, na me and you for nairaland, u musto turn to freethinker, I'm going to answer all your questions, and I won't leave anyone unanswered,

@bolded, any time now will be just fine.

And welcome to your goals, man. You should listen to what Enigma is saying, by the way.

bolaino: lol, my good man, you would make a very good freethinker, and I've set it as one of my goals to convert u to freethinking, na me and you for nairaland, u musto turn to freethinker, tI'm going to answer all your questions, and I won't leave anyone unanswered,

*gets popcorn and seat, waiting*

hmm this film has not started rolling

Ihedinobi:

Name the historians that 'disregarded' Josephus's works and provide excerpts of their theses debunking his writings.

Who accepts the claim that Josephus was a creation of the early church? Where did they say that they did?



Name some of the 'Bible scholars' that hold such a view and cite where they denounced the other three Gospels as copies of the Gospel of Mark.

Show how the Gospel of Mark holds Jesus as something less than the Messiah, not least how it holds that Jesus didn't think He was good.

Finally, how do the Gospels contradict each other in their accounts of Jesus's birth?



Show these similarities. What deities? And how are they similar to Jesus? And how do such similarities raise questions about the authenticity of the historical Jesus?



How do you know what God or the son of God would support or not support?



What if the Death of Jesus somehow only took away the pretence in man and forced evil to show its face so that it can be destroyed?



What point did you intend to make mentioning science?

What pain has Jesus caused?

How did you establish that Jesus was a mythical character?

Do you realize that it is a conteadiction to say that a mythical character did this or that or that something could be attributed to it?

Some of the above questions have been asked in my responses to your claims above, so you need not answer them again here.



We'll worry about the links later after you have shown what kind of grasp you have on the issues you've raised.

1) Well there are lots of christian scholars who have come out openly to debunk the writings of josephus, that is the TF, (testimonioum flavius) many of these christian writers believe that eusebius who was an early christian father, interpolated the writings of flavius josephus, or was infact flavius josephus, and they give good reasons for disproving it, you can get detailed explanation from this link,
www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

2) If you would please indulge me by reading the links provided below u'll sEe where it is ascertained that the gospel of mark is the original of the synoptic gospels,
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel

3) Mark 10 v 18, jesus clearly states that he was not Good that only one could be good and that one was God.

4, It's obvious that the biblical God would support justice, cos it is widely written in the bible that he is a God of justice, that would hold each man accountable for his sins, and that the father shall not bear the sins of the children, likewise the children bearing the sins of their father,

5, Science was frowned upon by the church and it is still frowned upon today, the church did a lot to curb the growth of science, chemist were tagged sorcerers in tha dark ages, and even the study of the human anatomy was considered to be dark magic, birth control is frowned upon by the church, etc, na long story,

6, Jesus christ has caused a lot of pain, because ever since his purported coming to earth man has not known peace, the world has seen more violence and more homes scattered, over a 100 million people were killed in the dark ages all in the name of jesus, these innocent souls were tagged pagans and such were not worthy to live,

Before jesus came there was war, there was starvation and there were illnesses, and after he came and left these things have steadily been on the rise, so it begs the question what gain has the birth and death of jesus had on mankind?

7) My establishment of jesus been mythical stemmed from the lack of evidence to prove his existence, there's no concrete shred of evidence that supports his birth and death, the only documents that could be said to be evidence are been questioned about their authenticity, at least we have proof that abraham lincoln, alexander the great, existed cos there's ample proof, but in the case of jesus we have zilch evidence for his existence.

Of course it is contradictory to attribute great feats to a mythical figure, but I have done nothing of such, I only made references to your bible to try to show u the obvious errancies there.

Hmmmmm, have u guys ran away? Ihedinobi, image123, hisblud, where are u guys?

Ehen, you required nearly a whole week to come up with answers to my questions and now you can't wait one day to see how I take them. How funny!

bolaino:

1) Well there are lots of christian scholars who have come out openly to debunk the writings of josephus, that is the TF, (testimonioum flavius) many of these christian writers believe that eusebius who was an early christian father, interpolated the writings of flavius josephus, or was infact flavius josephus, and they give good reasons for disproving it, you can get detailed explanation from this link,
www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

I asked for names and textual evidence not explanations, man. If na JAMB, admission no reach you dis year.

In addition to the questions in this segment, I also ask

"Does Christianity claim to need any historian's help to authenticate the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Or does it need it, claim or not and why would she?"

2) If you would please indulge me by reading the links provided below u'll sEe where it is ascertained that the gospel of mark is the original of the synoptic gospels,
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel

Is it altogether impossible to produce an excerpt that justifies the time I will spend on that link? Or do you think I do nothing else with my time?

Anyhow, I'll check it out.

3) Mark 10 v 18, jesus clearly states that he was not Good that only one could be good and that one was God.

So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one "is" good but One, "that is," God.

There's the verse. Where did He say that He's not good? You know, He also claimed to be God.

4, It's obvious that the biblical God would support justice, cos it is widely written in the bible that he is a God of justice, that would hold each man accountable for his sins, and that the father shall not bear the sins of the children, likewise the children bearing the sins of their father,

So you trust the Bible enough to appeal to its authority for what God or the son of God would or would not support, mm?

5, Science was frowned upon by the church and it is still frowned upon today, the church did a lot to curb the growth of science, chemist were tagged sorcerers in tha dark ages, and even the study of the human anatomy was considered to be dark magic, birth control is frowned upon by the church, etc, na long story,

How come then that children of the Church including Mendel, I think, the monk who researched on genetics, Isaac Newton and myriad modern-day scientists contributed and are contributing to the advamce of science?

6, Jesus christ has caused a lot of pain, because ever since his purported coming to earth man has not known peace, the world has seen more violence and more homes scattered, over a 100 million people were killed in the dark ages all in the name of jesus, these innocent souls were tagged pagans and such were not worthy to live,

Before jesus came there was war, there was starvation and there were illnesses, and after he came and left these things have steadily been on the rise, so it begs the question what gain has the birth and death of jesus had on mankind?

And they have been on the rise because He came? In other words, if He'd never come, they'd never have risen? How do you know this?

Say, for the sake of argument, I accepted this to be true, what if the rise is attributable to the jealousy of a wicked man or race of men that someone or some people better than them who show(s) them up for their true evil selves came on the scene? Would it still be Jesus's fault or would it be natural man's natural response to something that threatens to displace him by being better than him?

Also how many people were killed by the Vikings of old? Or Attila the Hun and his son? These are not Christianity-related, please note.

7) My establishment of jesus been mythical stemmed from the lack of evidence to prove his existence, there's no concrete shred of evidence that supports his birth and death, the only documents that could be said to be evidence are been questioned about their authenticity, at least we have proof that abraham lincoln, alexander the great, existed cos there's ample proof, but in the case of jesus we have zilch evidence for his existence.

What are the proofs for Alexander? And how are they more acceptable evidence than the Gospels?

Of course it is contradictory to attribute great feats to a mythical figure, but I have done nothing of such, I only made references to your bible to try to show u the obvious errancies there.

Sure you haven't, have you? You did not attribute the increase in wickedness in the world to the coming of a mythical figure at a point in time, did you? Considering that a mythical figure could not have come at all at any point in history not being real, isn't it a bit curious that you attribute real results to it?

I think you forgot this one and it was one of your biggest claims too:

Show these similarities. What deities? And how are they similar to Jesus? And how do such similarities raise questions about the authenticity of the historical Jesus?

@op u have the right to watever u want to believe just dnt come here and talk trash when u have no backup. If u deny Him He will also deny u. Sheikina

bolaino: Hmmmmm, have u guys ran away? Ihedinobi, image123, hisblud, where are u guys?

*lights out* wait the film has started rolling, thank God! *stand up to get another popcorn*

Your agument lacks coherence. You cannot change the mindset of millions of followers of JESUS CHRIST. What is written is written. You can't change Bible prophecies about Christ. He is the Son of God. Even the Devil knows. He is not a mythical figure. He is risen from the dead. You are in the minority. Repent and God will forgive your blasphemy.

@mark: Jesus was telling the young man, is it for show that you call me Good Master or are you seeing me as God who is Good, that is why you call me Good Master?

Of course it is contradictory to attribute great feats to a mythical figure, but I have done nothing of such, I only made references to your bible to try toshow u the obvious errancies there.

if Jesus was really mythical figure, a figment of some men imagination, then this people should have known they believed in a mythical figure, and they lived some hundred years from the time our Beloved Jesus walked on earth. Except you want to prove this people never existed

*.
Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165).

*.
Theophilus (d. 180), Bishop of Antioch.
*.
Irenaeus (c. 120/140-c. 200/203), saint and compiler of the New Testament
.
*.
Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-211/215), influential Greek theologian and prolific Christian writer.

*. Origen (c. 185-c. 254).

*. Hippolytus (c. 170-c. 235), saint and martyr.

*. The author of the ancient Syriac text, "History of Armenia,".
*. Minucius Felix (d. c. 250), lawyer and Christian convert.

*. Anatolius (230-c. 270/280)
*. Chrysostom (c. 347-407), saint and Syrian prelate.
*. Methodius, saint of the 9th century.
*. Photius (c. 820-891), Patriarch of Constantinople.

I'm sorry I've not been able to respond to these arguments sooner, I've been busy, I see where u guys are coming from and I think I know where u guys are heading to,

the reason I provided links was so that the thread wouldn't be too long and boring, but maybe I wasn't too concise with my compositions, I've been advised to let sleeping dogs lie and allow u guys wallow in ur belief, hoping to see people like myself and muskeeto in hell, but I assure u all, we (freethinkers) will surely have the last laugh,

I ve read all you guys have said and i need to tell you free thinkers that you are not thinking at all... You just went to the internet read some post by some people who just want to make scene. I good thinker will have his own reference from himself majorly

sam_ibk: I ve read all you guys have said and i need to tell you free thinkers that you are not thinking at all... You just went to the internet read some post by some people who just want to make scene. I good thinker will have his own reference from himself majorly

there's no way anybody arrives at a certain truth in his or her life without being influenced by certain people or certain events,

I presume u're a christian, and there are two possibilities for u being a christian, one is your geographical disposition, (you live in a christian dominated area,) and the other possibility is that you were born into a christian home,

and I can confidently say that u've never practiced anyother religion other than christianity, so my good mann, put urself for one corner,

hisblud: if Jesus was really mythical figure, a figment of some men imagination, then this people should have known they believed in a mythical figure, and they lived some hundred years from the time our Beloved Jesus walked on earth. Except you want to prove this people never existed

some of these men, were the people who wrote the holy book u guys think was inspired by God, some of the early christian writers were responsible for compiling the new testament and also the new testament apocryphal,

and these were the same men who used these writings to propagate the fear of eternal condemnation, using it to control the feeble minded masses, and the culture is still being practiced today, I pity most christians,

bolaino: there's no way anybody arrives at a certain truth in his or her life without being influenced by certain people or certain events,

I presume u're a christian, and there are two possibilities for u being a christian, one is your geographical disposition, (you live in a christian dominated area,) and the other possibility is that you were born into a christian home,

and I can confidently say that u've never practiced anyother religion other than christianity, so my good mann, put urself for one corner,

you dont understand


you dont understand simple thing.... In this life we need a clear cut understanding of things.... Many things that have been told about jesus by some people you need to know why they did that. What is there intention, so things in the bible as been quoted wrongly, i'm sure if i ask you to explain some you cant... So i think you need to sit at the corner and think wisely

bolaino boliano. Your senior atheists know the folly of arguing against Christ's existence, learn from them. They concentrate more on His Father and His Word. i'm beginning to doubt your existence as i cannot believe that there is a human being on NL that is completely certain that Jesus never existed. The myriads of people who saw Jesus and wrote about Him were what? Today is April 7,2013years after the death of Jesus. Wake up to reality.

Image123: bolaino boliano. Your senior atheists know the folly of arguing against Christ's existence, learn from them. They concentrate more on His Father and His Word. i'm beginning to doubt your existence as i cannot believe that there is a human being on NL that is completely certain that Jesus never existed. The myriads of people who saw Jesus and wrote about Him were what? Today is April 7,2013years after the death of Jesus. Wake up to reality.

and I assure u in a thousand years to come, people would have forgotten about jesus, the way they've forgotten about apollo and his lot, it will only take time, but it'll happen,

Image123: bolaino boliano. Your senior atheists know the folly of arguing against Christ's existence, learn from them. They concentrate more on His Father and His Word. i'm beginning to doubt your existence as i cannot believe that there is a human being on NL that is completely certain that Jesus never existed. The myriads of people who saw Jesus and wrote about Him were what? Today is April 7,2013years after the death of Jesus. Wake up to reality.

and I assure u in a thousand years to come, people would have forgotten about jesus, the way they've forgotten about apollo and his lot, it will only take time, but it'll happen,

bolaino: and I assure u in a thousand years to come, people would have forgotten about jesus, the way they've forgotten about apollo and his lot, it will only take time, but it'll happen, and I assure u in a thousand years to come, people would have forgotten about jesus, the way they've forgotten about apollo and his lot, it will only take time, but it'll happen,

you can assure me of a thousand years? how convenient. Quite cowardly smart compared to Voltaire and Stalin who thought similar folly and put shorter time frame.

bolaino: some of these men, were the people who wrote the holy book u guys think was inspired by God, some of the early christian writers were responsible for compiling the new testament and also the new testament apocryphal,

and these were the same men who used these writings to propagate the fear of eternal condemnation, using it to control the feeble minded masses, and the culture is still being practiced today, I pity most christians,

i pity you and your folks rather. Btw why did you state you pity "most christians" NOT "christians"? It means what? You make the false assumption that everyone wit christian name, born and raised by christian parent IS a christian. NO way!

bolaino: I'm sorry I've not been able to respond to these arguments sooner, I've been busy, I see where u guys are coming from and I think I know where u guys are heading to,

the reason I provided links was so that the thread wouldn't be too long and boring, but maybe I wasn't too concise with my compositions, I've been advised to let sleeping dogs lie and allow u guys wallow in ur belief, hoping to see people like myself and muskeeto in hell, but I assure u all, we (freethinkers) will surely have the last laugh,

@bolded: interesting. Is this perhaps why you started copping out so early? Perhaps, you've been advised that you have no real arguments and may never find any?

Well, happy believing to you too, man

Ihedinobi:

@bolded: interesting. Is this perhaps why you started copping out so early? Perhaps, you've been advised that you have no real arguments and may never find any?

Well, happy believing to you too, man

lol, I'm not copping out, I just think it's futile trying to explain the simple facts of freethinking to u guys, cos. U'll never understand, cos u don't want to understand.

bolaino: lol, I'm not copping out, I just think it's futile trying to explain the simple facts of freethinking to u guys, cos. U'll never understand, cos u don't want to understand.

And here I was thinking the exact same thing about you and you band of "freethinkers".

Curious, innit?