"Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! - Religion (28) - Nairaland
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| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 6:50pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: And his foolish questions pop out again....... Are the angels who are God(s) false Gods??...... The question u should ask your stiff head is if Jesus is the one GOD... Is he??..... If Yes,open a scripture that calls him that..... If there isn't a scripture then forever close your mouth and stop asking this rubbish questions...... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 7:12pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts" (Mal.3:1). Check other bibles including you New world translation... you failed big time. 3 “Look! I am sending my messenger,*+ and he must clear up a way before me.+ And suddenly there will come to His temple*+ the [true] Lord,*+ whom YOU people are seeking, and the messenger*+ of the covenant+ in whom YOU are delighting.+ Look! He will certainly come,” Jehovah of armies has said.(NWT) to put the icing on the cake... hebrew 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? you are Just plain wayolist  [size=28pt]Your claim jesus is an angel is dead... and even NWT did not translate it as angel... [/size] |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 7:19pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: From watchtower 2003... they talk about truth and lie... let me show you Truth is not a matter of personal opinion. For example, either the human soul is immortal or it is not. Either Satan exists or he does not. Either there is a purpose to life or there is not. In each case, there can be only one correct answer. One is true, and the other is false; both cannot be true."“The watchtower” of August 1st, 2003, p 14: What is true?this there teaching says one is true the other is false... But when I ask any JW... even people who wrote this if Jesus is a false God they will say no... the True one is already the God... so again is [size=38pt]Jesus false god?[/size] |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 7:23pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: Whats the point if you wont answer the other questions... but come here with another? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 7:43pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: .........I asked you a question sometime ago which I can't remember if you gave a firm retort.... When Jesus confirmed only God is good..... Did he mean every other person who have practiced goodness through out history including himself(Jesus) is/was bad??........ And I would ask you:::....are the good angels in heaven false God(s)??.... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 8:13pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid:Ok.. you are trying to Dodge this question again... but let me just make a quick walk through and then you tell me if Jesus is a false God... Only Good is Good... Jesus is say Only God is Good... father, son and holy spirit... he is not taking that for him self alone... Sometimes Jesus speaks in parable... [size=18pt]i ask if Jesus is false god you are asking if the angels are false god... did i tell you they are God? again if they are god then God will destroy them. because they are false. [/size] [size=28pt]is Jesus true God or false?[/size] |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 8:17pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: You know the bolded is a lie and not in the scriptures.....please don't make assumptions for Jesus.... We all know who Jesus calls the one GOD... Don't you know??... Don't act like a fraud bro...  ......Is Jesus,abraham,all the holy angels, etc bad since God is the only one that is good??.... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 8:21pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: assumption like God dispose Jesus body... vaporize him body? Or God created an angel? lol. I answer your question... answer mine... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 8:27pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: Like the way a mango seed suddenly disappears for a big tree to form....... I have given you the same analogy paul used when describing the ressurection of those who would live as spirits in heaven...... And ofcourse God created all angels(messengers)...... If Jesus isn't a messenger of God please feel free to correct me...  ......And I am still waiting for that almighty scripture that says the one God is the Father ,son and holy spirit.... Na so the scripture hard to find for bible??.... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 8:35pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: Instead of you to answer the question... you are talking parables... So prophet Elijah is an angel Like Gabriel? or you are applying one of the meaning of angels... by your Logic we can conclude Jesus is not the messenger of God since he is not an angel... and prophet Elijah since they are not an angel too but humans? hebrew 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? instead of you to answer the Question you are talking parable... Is jesus false God? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 8:42pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino:Jesus is the messenger of God....and I guess you know strictly what spirit messengers of God are called....... Please check up the hebrew word that was used to describe Jesus in malachi......ANGLEOS bro.....angel......  .....benalvino:How does this scripture negate the fact that Jesus is Gods messenger(angel)??..... How??.... benalvino: Is Jesus and all good people today bad since only God is good??........ ..... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 8:48pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid:SMH... Was Jesus spirit on earth if i may ask you? you are running around like cockroach that inhales baygon... God is asking you in hebrew... which angel did i ever say today you are my son and i shall be your father... and you say it did not mean anything... if it came out from those magazine it would have meant the whole world to you abi? cause the bible is not the final authority abi? now you are trying to force Jesus to be angel... hahahahaha desperation. [size=28pt]IS JESUS FALSE GOD[/size] |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 8:55pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: Lmao.......was Jesus not a spirit in heaven before he descended??.........the prophecy says an angel(messenger) was to come.... benalvino:And I ask again how does that verse negate the fact that Jesus is Gods messenger(angel)??....... Isn't that scripture telling you that Jesus is the unique messenger of God??....... There in hebrews it is well shown that Jesus had contemporaries before he was exalted... benalvino: You are the one forcing Jesus not to be an angel of God....... ......Is Jesus and all of us bad??...... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 9:03pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid:Which message you know Jesus go when he was in heaven? am not ready for this Baseless talk... if Jesus is angel for you let it be for you  one of your ways of belittle Jesus... i can conclude you dont know Jesus |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 9:11pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: Lmao........ I am not be-littling Jesus.......you are the one be-littling the Father...... I just told what Jesus is to the Father....... Them no be mate...... I can also conclude you don't know Jesus.... Because if you knew him you would join hands with him to worship and recognize the ONE GOD who is THE FATHER alone.... Thank you..... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 9:25pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid:I worship the father through Jesus... i pray through Jesus... can jesus be worshipped yes... you are trying to go direct to the father. lol it doesnt work that way. hebrew 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? Never an angel. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 9:44pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: Interesting...... You worship the Father through Jesus.?...meaning Jesus is the appointed vendor through which your worship gets to the Father who is the one undisputed GOD..... Meaning you agree with the fact that the Father alone is the one God.... .....Case closed........ |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 10:40pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino proving that the 3 are God has been done many times...are you okay? i said that im not disputing that jesus is a GOD, YES, christ is a GOD, the house of David is a GOD(ZECH 12: the father God Almighty is Also God, but NOT the same beign that you said constitutes the ONE GOD JHVH/YHWH God, cant you comprehend? you are just talking trash below, after i cautioned you when you brought the creation issue, now you are talking of how you be in christ,its not the point; How do we Be in Christ? its through the spirit right? through same spirit God dwells in us... our Body is said to be the Temple of God... so can we agree that when the holy spirit dwells in us... its God that is dwelling in us? also its Christ that is dwelling in US... this is bible teaching. again i said;im not disputing that father is called God(ALMIGHTY), and son also called GOD(MIGHTY) but NOT an ENTITY GOD as a being as you said in pg 24 , now, show the bible verse that says 'the father, the son, and the holy spirit all these three in a verse that they ARE THE ONE BEIGN THAT IS GOD, im not asking how you are in christ, that was on pg 22-23 you kept mute then,so treat the issue on ground now pls. show the bible verse that says 'the father, the son, and the holy spirit all these three in a verse that they ARE THE ONE BEIGN THAT IS GOD im waiting! |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by FromGuiriga(m): 10:49pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: I give it to you brother. Still at it with dude!!! Can Benalvino quote where in the "old testament" did Yahweh called Jesus God. I cannot find it but I think I'm overlooking it. Give thanks! |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 10:54pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino: benalvino:"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts" (Mal.3:1). how is it dead? [size=14pt]you are the one having problem with NWT, or you are having problem with the word 'my messenger' also rendered angel, why dont you do youself a favour by checking the meaning of angel in greek/hebrew used in the manuscript, [/size]check all my post, not even one verse did i quote from NWT NOW you can see what i mean that im not a jw, im i the one that wrote these words in the bible? i have just showed you the verse directly, while you are yet to show me where the 3 are the one GOD/BEIGN. [size=18pt] "our lord and angel of the covenant whom we seek",[/size] Douay-Rheims Bible 1899 is more than a century, Darby Bible Translation Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts. Douay-Rheims Bible 1899 Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 11:07pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
benalvino; hebrew 1:5 scroll back and have the answer in verse 4 before the verse 5 you read, jesus was promoted from an angel to an arch/chief-angel that is better than the ordinry angels, read heb 1:4-5; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as [size=14pt]he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they[/size]. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? so, it was a progressive achievement. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 11:09pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino You said Jesus is and angel i ask for verse you brought distorted translation... Show me a verse where it says Jesus raised as michael the archangel show me a verse where it says Jesus body was disposed by God show me verse where the bible call Satan divine cause you believe that till you do. we can continue... all i see here is you are trying to say if the bible doesn't say it the way you want the teaching wrong... yet the above you believe in the bible doesn't say it like that. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 11:19pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino: sorry to burst your bubble... The verse says messenger... to further clarify it... hebrew 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? Hebrews 1:13 "But to which of the angels said He at any time, sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" when you drink your mind control pill finish lemme know. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 11:21pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino;[size=68pt]LMAO[/size] you Really a deceit... Do you think My IQ is equal or lower than yours? you are using an argument that favors me to back up your case... Lol you Ok? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by Itsfacts: 11:26pm On Jul 09, 2013 |
You still change words with this two monkeys ijawkid and barister or bernimoore. This people brain are with there faithful and deceit slaves. Don't bother they are lust |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 9:37am On Jul 10, 2013 |
benalvino sorry to burst your bubble... The verse says messenger... to further clarify it... yes, 'my messenger' used there means angel, the original manuscript says it all below,you are supposed to have realised the defination of angel/messenger on your own, thats why some bible that use messenger dont bother using angel, instead of calling a bible that rightly used angel for our lord jesus distorted, why dont you dig the 'bible defination of angel' let me help you with strong hebrew/greek lexicon; MALACHI 3:1.. my messengerH4397 messenger of covenantH4397.. H4397 מלאך mal'âk mal-awk' From an unusud root meaning to despatch as a deputy;[size=18pt] a messenger ; specifically of {God} that {is} an angel (also a {prophet}[/size] question; which bible are you using? and let me experiment or show you something new! |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 9:55am On Jul 10, 2013 |
benalvino, lets start from the first two question you raised, so that i can treat objections to it before proceeding, (1) You said Jesus is and angel i ask for verse you brought distorted translation... i have showed you from 2 bibles directly, but you call them distorted, so you have problem with the bible and not me! when you have not got your facts right,but you will see that they are not distorted as we moved on, thank God its not NWT, so i have discharged my duty to clarify using 2 of the oldest bibles not one; Dual Rhelms, and darby bible i can add more bibles to the list, if you want. (2) Show me a verse where it says Jesus raised as michael the archangel easy one too; jesus as an archangel himself will use the 'voice he possessed that is his own voice as archangel' see it; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (kjv) For [size=14pt]the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel[/size], objection? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 10:03am On Jul 10, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino malak: a messenger Original Word: מַלְאָך Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: malak Phonetic Spelling: (mal-awk') Short Definition: angel aggelos: an angel, messenger Original Word: ἄγγελος, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: aggelos Phonetic Spelling: (ang'-el-os) Short Definition: an angel, messenger Definition: a messenger, generally a (supernatural) messenger from God, an angel, conveying news or behests from God to men. you making your self look more and more desperate... keep trying common sense will tell you angelos and malawk are not same |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 10:27am On Jul 10, 2013 |
benalvino benalvino: see bolded from your own quote! im laughing here! are you reffering to the pronouciaion of malawk and angellos that they dont sound same way? it not neccesary, what common sense are you talking? do you need big lenses? even in your quote above, you denied the obvious is a shame! you see what trinity doctrine has caused you, a virus, i told you to go back to school, you dont even know your left from right, you are confused, go take a rest...im tagging this posts of contradiction of yours[size=18pt] 1(#h)[/size]is malachi 3:1 right now in calling jesus angel/messenger of covenant? i doubt if you can answer! |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 10:44am On Jul 10, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino, i have showed you from 2 bibles directly, but you call them distorted, so you have problem with the bible and not me! when you have not got your facts right,but you will see that they are not distorted as we moved on, thank God its not NWT, so i have discharged my duty to clarify using 2 of the oldest bibles not one; Dual Rhelms, and darby bible i can add more bibles to the list, if you want. continue deceiving your self... let me show you from other bibles... New International Version (©2011) "I will send my [b]messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty. New Living Translation (©2007) "Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger of the covenant, whom you look for so eagerly, is surely coming," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. English Standard Version (©2001) “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts. New American Standard Bible (©1995) "Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) Behold, I will send my[b] messenger[/b], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the covenant you desire--see, He is coming," says the LORD of Hosts. International Standard Version (©2012) "Watch out! I'm sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly, the LORD you are looking for will come to his Temple. He is the[b] messenger[/b] of the covenant whom you desire. Watch out! He is coming!" says the LORD of the Heavenly Armies. NET Bible (©2006) "I am about to send my messenger, who will clear the way before me. Indeed, the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his temple, and the[b] messenger[/b] of the covenant, whom you long for, is certainly coming," says the LORD who rules over all. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) "I'm going to send my messenger, and he will clear the way ahead of me. Then the Lord you are looking for will suddenly come to his temple. The messenger of the promise will come. He is the one you want," says the LORD of Armies. King James 2000 Bible (©2003) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in: behold, he shall come, says the LORD of hosts. American King James Version Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in: behold, he shall come, said the LORD of hosts. American Standard Version Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye desire, behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts. Douay-Rheims Bible Behold I send my angel(error), and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel(error) of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts. Darby Bible Translation Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel(error) of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts. English Revised Version Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in, behold, he cometh, saith the LORD of hosts. Webster's Bible Translation Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he will come, saith the LORD of hosts. World English Bible "Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes!" says Yahweh of Armies. Young's Literal Translation Lo, I am sending My messenger, And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord whom ye are seeking, Even the messenger of the covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts. its your Choice to leave in deceit there are 3 substance or nature... GOD, Angel, man... Jesus is the only begotten of the father... he is of same substance of the father... and he was also of same substance as humans... the verses below shows it... mark 1:1 jesus is the son of God... this means the son of God is God... same substance... look at phil 2:6 Same revelation Jesus came with the trumpet of God... does it make him the trumpet? you will say No ... does it make him God? you will say no... so you have no case... you are just trying your best to belittle Jesus... archangel and every human everything that is not God will worship him and the father equally... Jesus will even receive more honor than the father... keep taking the pill of deceit |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 10:44am On Jul 10, 2013 |
Benalvino let me add this, to educate you(my teacher,you know im a smart student) here is it; [size=18pt]The English word “angel” is in Greek = angelos and the Hebrew= malawk, and literally means “messenger”[/size] check b4 we proceed! |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 10:47am On Jul 10, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvinoolodo... lol [size=28pt]Malawk: a messenger[/size] [size=28pt]aggelos: an angel[/size] |
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