haibe:

mr man I have answered you, read again.

you mean he did not see the lamb the way it was slain?
flesh and blood cant inherit the kingdom of God. Can bones inherit it?

the kingdom of God will be brought to earth we will have new earth. So are we going to be spirit to be on earth?

the flesh job use to see God after he arise is it a flesh of a spirit?

haibe:

its john not paul.

So you think john was referring to a literal lamb?

^^^

This guy funny die.

lol, Jesus was a 'literal' lamb in heaven.

Itsfacts:

you mean he did not see the lamb the way it was slain?
flesh and blood cant inherit the kingdom of God. Can bones inherit it?

the kingdom of God will be brought to earth we will have new earth. So are we going to be spirit to be on earth?

the flesh job use to see God after he arise is it a flesh of a spirit?

what do you mean John saw the lamb (Jesus) as he waw slain in heaven, how can you think Jesus was slain in heaven again, is this were your reasoning have ended up? OMG!!

You are right flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that is what the bible says, I don't know what bone has to do with this.

Christians will be dwelling in the new Jerusalem which will come out of heaven from God, this is not a physical Jerusalem, it is heavenly/spiritual, and so only the saints with heavenly/spiritual body can dwell there.

Job has not arised, he is still dead in the grave unconscious, he will be ressurected in an heavenly body at Christ's second coming.

truthislight:

^^^

This guy funny die.

lol, Jesus was a literal lamb in heaven.

as in I tire oo.

truthislight:

^^^

This guy funny die.

lol, Jesus was a 'literal' lamb in heaven.

mr man try read before you type. I made known that the lamb is a symbol for Jesus. Same way the lion is a symbol. Talk about comprehension

haibe:

what do you mean John saw the lamb (Jesus) as he waw slain in heaven, how can you think Jesus was slain in heaven again, is this were your reasoning have ended up? OMG!!

You are right flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that is what the bible says, I don't know what bone has to do with this.

Christians will be dwelling in the new Jerusalem which will come out of heaven from God, this is not a physical Jerusalem, it is heavenly/spiritual, and so only the saints with heavenly/spiritual body can dwell there.

Job has not arised, he is still dead in the grave unconscious, he will be ressurected in an heavenly body at Christ's second coming.

comprehension hahhahahaha. Go back and read my post. You don't understand anything even simple English.

go back and read where i said he saw the lamb that was slain. Did i say it was slain in heaven no. Then i continue and say he saw it the way it was slain in heaven. Which means he saw Jesus in heaven with his wounds in his and and side. Learn to understand. This is not a rocket science.

what flesh did job use to see God?

about Jerusalem. So God will bring invisible kingdom and put in physical earth then everyone will be invisible in physical earth. Will earth be like planet mars? They have some sort of spiritual kingdom in mars and every living creature there is invisible that humans can see them. The jw you defend i was one their awake magazine you see people eaten apple playing lions yet the spirit we will become we will need to eat those fruits they display in their magazine to keep our spirit body running no be so? Contradiction contradiction contradiction.

job say when he arise his flesh will see God. Is heavenly body has flesh? Do the angels have flesh? You see the problem? You say when he arise he will have is heavenly body ok. Then job talks about when he arise and said his flesh. Yet you say it is not flesh but spirit.

jman the 144 thousand will go to heaven turn to spirit. About the great crowd you say will remain on earth? They turn to spirit too? As u say flesh cant survive in heaven will flesh not survive on earth? Adam was made to live for ever on earth not as spirit but flesh.

Itsfacts:

comprehension hahhahahaha. Go back and read my post. You don't understand anything even simple English.

go back and read where i said he saw the lamb that was slain. Did i say it was slain in heaven no. Then i continue and say he saw it the way it was slain in heaven. Which means he saw Jesus in heaven with his wounds in his and and side. Learn to understand. This is not a rocket science.

I want to believe this is the verse you are quoting from:

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the
throne and of the four beasts, and in the
midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it
had been slain, having seven horns and
seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of
God sent forth into all the earth.(rev 5:6).

How does this prove that Jesus is a man?
From the old testament the killing of the lamb has always been a symbol of Jesus, the lamb is not actually Jesus but is always associated with Jesus.

The lamb in this verse is a symbol of Jesus just as it has always been, Jesus himself is not wounded in heaven, if you say he is wounded, then you are saying he has seven horns and seven eyes literally too but this is wrong, they are only symbols representing something just like the lamb represents Jesus.

Itsfacts:

you mean he did not see the lamb the way it was slain?
flesh and blood cant inherit the kingdom of God. Can bones inherit it?

the kingdom of God will be brought to earth we will have new earth. So are we going to be spirit to be on earth?

the flesh job use to see God after he arise is it a flesh of a spirit?

Haibe definitely has a challenge with his understanding of the difference between "spirit" and "spiritual". I hope he will be humble enough to learn. He argued so ferociously albeit blindly about ghosts and spirits until he was awkwardly bailed out. His literally 'prostrating' and 'licking' JMAN05's 'booths' did not stop him from continuing his blind argument not long after. He has changed the direction of this 'lively debate' severally by his unnecessary distractions. He is an incurable 'argument-monger'. I must admit however, that he has made the house very, very noisy and alive by his 'restlessness'.

Itsfacts:




about Jerusalem. So God will bring invisible kingdom and put in physical earth then everyone will be invisible in physical earth. Will earth be like planet mars? They have some sort of spiritual kingdom in mars and every living creature there is invisible that humans can see them. The jw you defend i was one their awake magazine you see people eaten apple playing lions yet the spirit we will become we will need to eat those fruits they display in their magazine to keep our spirit body running no be so? Contradiction contradiction contradiction.

All I know is that the new Jerusalem is not physical but heavenly and nothing defiled or corruptible will enter it but the saints only.

Why are you surprised that spiritual beings can be on earth, where do you think satan is? you think he is in an imaginary throne in hell waiting for who to torment? why do you think demons possess people here on earth? Infact the earth was in existence before man was created.

Mr man I am not defending any jw, this is what the bible teaches, and who told you only jw belief in a spiritual body?

ravgach:

Haibe definitely has a challenge with his understanding of the difference between "spirit" and "spiritual". I hope he will be humble enough to learn. He argued so ferociously albeit blindly about ghosts and spirits until he was awkwardly bailed out. His literally 'prostrating' and 'licking' JMAN05's 'booths' did not stop him from continuing his blind argument not long after. He has changed the direction of this 'lively debate' severally by his unnecessary distractions. He is an incurable 'argument-monger'. I must admit however, that he has made the house very, very noisy and alive by his 'restlessness'.

Mr man you have unanswered questions and you are here facing another man's wahala; abeg face your own first.

I might not know the difference between spirit and spiritual but oga I know the difference between spiritual and physical.


44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a
spiritual body. If there is a physical body,
there is also a spiritual body


I don't see how you want to twist spiritual body here to mean physical body with holy spirit like itsfact has said, try your luck though.

haibe:


I want to believe this is the verse you are quoting from:

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the
throne and of the four beasts, and in the
midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it
had been slain, having seven horns and
seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of
God sent forth into all the earth.(rev 5:6).

How does this prove that Jesus is a man?
From the old testament the killing of the lamb has always been a symbol of Jesus, the lamb is not actually Jesus but is always associated with Jesus.

The lamb in this verse is a symbol of Jesus just as it has always been, Jesus himself is not wounded in heaven, if you say he is wounded, then you are saying he has seven horns and seven eyes literally too but this is wrong, they are only symbols representing something just like the lamb represents Jesus.

itsfacts:

mr man try read before you type. I made known that the lamb is a symbol for Jesus. Same way the lion is a symbol. Talk about comprehension

I quote my self because i have already said the lamb is a symbol of Jesus. Jesus is the lamb of God.

When Jesus is called the Lamb of God in John 1:29 and John 1:36, it is referring to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. In order to understand who Christ was and what He did, we must begin with the Old Testament, which contains prophecies concerning the coming of Christ as a “guilt offering” (Isaiah 53:10). In fact, the whole sacrificial system established by God in the Old Testament set the stage for the coming of Jesus Christ, who is the perfect sacrifice God would provide as atonement for the sins of His people (Romans 8:3; Hebrews 10).

he says he saw the lamb as it was slain. Jesus was put on the cross. he had wounds on his hand and side, that is how it was slain. Now he saw Jesus that way.

lamb is symbol,
But how was the lamb(Jesus) slain? How did he see him?

the wounds are part of the sacrifice and it was said that the way they watch him go is same way he will come. those wounds will still be there.

Itsfacts:

job say when he arise his flesh will see God. Is heavenly body has flesh? Do the angels have flesh? You see the problem? You say when he arise he will have is heavenly body ok. Then job talks about when he arise and said his flesh. Yet you say it is not flesh but spirit.

Job says he will see God in his flesh (body), how does this prove anything? everyone will see God in their body but this body will have been changed from physical body to heavenly body.


And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.(1 Corinthians 15:49).

what do you understand by this verse above?

Itsfacts:



I quote my self because i have already said the lamb is a symbol of Jesus. Jesus is the lamb of God.

When Jesus is called the Lamb of God in John 1:29 and John 1:36, it is referring to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. In order to understand who Christ was and what He did, we must begin with the Old Testament, which contains prophecies concerning the coming of Christ as a “guilt offering” (Isaiah 53:10). In fact, the whole sacrificial system established by God in the Old Testament set the stage for the coming of Jesus Christ, who is the perfect sacrifice God would provide as atonement for the sins of His people (Romans 8:3; Hebrews 10).

he says he saw the lamb as it was slain. Jesus was put on the cross. he had wounds on his hand and side, that is how it was slain. Now he saw Jesus that way.

lamb is symbol,
But how was the lamb(Jesus) slain? How did he see him?

the wounds are part of the sacrifice and it was said that the way they watch him go is same way he will come. those wounds will still be there.

A quick question: before Jesus came to earth was he a spiritual being or a physical being?

haibe:

All I know is that the new Jerusalem is not physical but heavenly and nothing defiled or corruptible will enter it but the saints only.

Why are you surprised that spiritual beings can be on earth, where do you think satan is? you think he is in an imaginary throne in hell waiting for who to torment? why do you think demons possess people here on earth? Infact the earth was in existence before man was created.

Mr man I am not defending any jw, this is what the bible teaches, and who told you only jw belief in a spiritual body?

all you know is: this your statement shows you have no argument.
Jerusalem will come to earth. I am asking you will humans not be able to leave on earth again? why is the earth renewed when nothing will leave on it? why should and invisible spirit nation come into a physical world and stay?

will earth be like planet mars?

why job say he will see God with his flesh after he rise? abi spirit don get flesh?

why resurrect dead corpse if their body is not needed?

when the bible say the day adam eats from the fruit he died, was the bible lying or adam died spiritually?

do you know do we are alive we are dead?

so if the body is not needed why does the bible say jesus will give our body eternal life?

will humans stop to exist?

is jesus still human?

haibe:

A quick question: before Jesus came to earth was he a spiritual being or a physical being?

read philipians 2:6 answer is there.

haibe:

Job says he will see God in his flesh (body), how does this prove anything? everyone will see God in their body but this body will have been changed from physical body to heavenly body.


And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.(1 Corinthians 15:49).

what do you understand by this verse above?

it kills your argument

first jesus made it clear spirit dont have flesh and bones. you said jesus was joking because he is telling them he is not a spirit when he is a spirit
(you didnt actually saying that way but you meant it that way)

the angels dont have flesh and bones

now job said from his flesh he shall see God. which agrees with what jesus said that he is flesh and not a spirit.

and you said this does not prove anything. i feel like leaving benin and come down to where you are and say to you. DROP YOUR PRIDE.

what i understand is 1st adam is from earth we got his image which is death. 2nd adam is from heaven we got his image which is Life.

it doesnt not mean form or how we look.

adam was created in the image of God. tell me is adam a spirit when he was created? no. God is not Human being.

haibe:

A quick question: before Jesus came to earth was he a spiritual being or a physical being?

Having a spiritual body does not make us spirits and it does not alter the way we look. "Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known". If you all meet in heaven, we will know and recognize each other. So the question ISFACTS is asking is very, very key. Are we going to become an invisible nation since we shall ultimately live in the new heaven and new earth?

ravgach:

Having a spiritual body does not make us spirits and it does not alter the way we look. "Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known". If you all meet in heaven, we will know and recognize each other. So the question ISFACTS is asking is very, very key. Are we going to become an invisible nation since we shall ultimately live in the new heaven and new earth?

The answer is we will dwell in the new jerusalem which is literally heaven on earth, since it is heaven only heavenly bodies can dwell there.

you didn't answer the question you quoted, please do.

Itsfacts:

adam was created in the image of God. tell me is adam a spirit when he was created? no. God is not Human being.

adam(man) was made a little lower than the angels since he isn't immortal or spiritual in body(Psalm 8:5) but at the ressurection he will rise in an immortal spiritual body which will make him equal to the angels (Luke 20:38; Mattew 22:30).

As funny as it seem people like ravgach belief man has a spirit which cant die because he was made in the image of God, lol I thought you both are getting along.

Well am glad you accept man was not made a spirit but human and so can die, nothing immortal until the ressurection.

Itsfacts:

spirits are disembodied all kind... the are like wind.

all spirits are disembodied. can you see the wind? that is how they all are. they only have body when they materialize.

understand what body means or is. there is nothing like disembodied spirits. but spirits are disembodied. disembodied is a word on its own. no such word like disembodied spirit. you can say disembodied dead people but not disembodied spirit. it does not make sense and it is err.

God disembodied from which which body? all the angels disembodied from which body?

the bible says: there are earthly bodies and their are spiritual/heavenly bodies.

Itsfacts:

it kills your argument

first jesus made it clear spirit dont have flesh and bones. you said jesus was joking because he is telling them he is not a spirit when he is a spirit
(you didnt actually saying that way but you meant it that way)

the angels dont have flesh and bones

now job said from his flesh he shall see God. which agrees with what jesus said that he is flesh and not a spirit.

and you said this does not prove anything. i feel like leaving benin and come down to where you are and say to you. DROP YOUR PRIDE.

what i understand is 1st adam is from earth we got his image which is death. 2nd adam is from heaven we got his image which is Life.

it doesnt not mean form or how we look.

adam was created in the image of God. tell me is adam a spirit when he was created? no. God is not Human being.

You see, I am seriously disturbed that Haibe could be taking his self-opinionating to the height of even questioning the integrity of our Lord Jesus Himself. Jesus said something that is so clear that even the deaf could understand and yet this guy is turning it and almost replacing it with his. I have been looking for a very simple way to break down completely the words of Jesus for Haibe to see. May be this translation by the Message will break it down for him so he can come down from his mountain of self-opinion and accept the simple words that Jesus said:
"Look at my hands; look at my feet—IT'S REALLY ME. Touch me. Look me over from head to toe. A ghost doesn’t have muscle and bone like this.” Luke 24:39
Having a spiritual body is not equivalent of being a spirit.

Itsfacts:

what i understand is 1st adam is from earth we got his image which is death. 2nd adam is from heaven we got his image which is Life.

it doesnt not mean form or how we look.

lol please don't let me give you e-slap(just kidding).

Maybe you should read those verses in context, paul was emphasizing bodies as regards ressurection, the discussion on body started in verse 35 "But some man will say how are the dead raised up? AND WITH WHAT BODY DO THEY COME"

The heavenly image is heavenly body, don't read out of context, paul was answering a rhetorical question about the body we will ressurect in from verse 35 till the end of the chapter.

ravgach:

You see, I am seriously disturbed that Haibe could be taking his self-opinionating to the height of even questioning the integrity of our Lord Jesus Himself. Jesus said something that is so clear that even the deaf could understand and yet this guy is turning it and almost replacing it with his. I have been looking for a very simple way to break down completely the words of Jesus for Haibe to see. May be this translation by the Message will break it down for him so he can come down from his mountain of self-opinion and accept the simple words that Jesus said:
"Look at my hands; look at my feet—IT'S REALLY ME. Touch me. Look me over from head to toe. A ghost doesn’t have muscle and bone like this.” Luke 24:39

yes it was really Jesus, ghosts do not have muscle and bones, no person who belief in ghost will tell you they do.

haibe:

yes it was really Jesus, ghosts do not have muscle and bones, no person who belief in ghost will tell you they do.

Are ghost real then? Haibe you are an 'impossibility'!

Jesus is saying, "I did not become a spirit. Check me out, I am still the same!"

Itsfacts:

it kills your argument

first jesus made it clear spirit dont have flesh and bones. you said jesus was joking because he is telling them he is not a spirit when he is a spirit
(you didnt actually saying that way but you meant it that way)

the angels dont have flesh and bones

Are you alright? ? please show me where I said Jesus was joking or that he is telling them he is not a spirit when he is a spirit.

I have told you Jesus was telling them he wasn't a ghost, ghosts are different from spiritual beings, you still hold on to the word spirit in order to deceive yourself that Jesus wasn't a spiritual being.

Do you know the difference between a ghost and spirit beings? ? why are you acting like a dummy?

Are spirit beings dead like ghosts?

I have told you not to quote me out of context again, don't lie on me please, if you don't understand please ask questions first.

Do you know the difference between a ghost and spirit beings? ? why are you acting like a dummy?

Are spirit beings dead like ghosts?

ARE SPIRIT BEINGS DEAD LIKE GHOST?

Are you sure you do not sleep when you write these things? are you sure you do not really believe in ghost?

haibe:

The answer is we will dwell in the new jerusalem which is literally heaven on earth, since it is heaven only heavenly bodies can dwell there.

you didn't answer the question you quoted, please do.

then Jman say some people will go to heaven and some will be on earth. so if heaven comes to earth who are those going to heaven and who are does that will be outside the new jerusalem?

[quote author=haibe]

Do you know the difference between a ghost and spirit beings? ? why are you acting like a dummy?

Are spirit beings dead like ghosts?

ARE SPIRIT BEINGS DEAD LIKE GHOST?

Are you sure you do not sleep when you write these things? are you sure you do not really believe in ghost?

haibe:

Are you alright? ? please show me where I said Jesus was joking or that he is telling them he is not a spirit when he is a spirit.

I have told you Jesus was telling them he wasn't a ghost, ghosts are different from spiritual beings, you still hold on to the word spirit in order to deceive yourself that Jesus wasn't a spiritual being.

Do you know the difference between a ghost and spirit beings? ? why are you acting like a dummy?

Are spirit beings dead like ghosts?

I have told you not to quote me out of context again, don't lie on me please, if you don't understand please ask questions first.

did you not see the words in the bracket. this is an example of comprehension wahala

ravgach:

Are ghost real then? Haibe you are an 'impossibility'!

Jesus is saying, "I did not become a spirit. Check me out, I am still the same!"

the word spirit is a very complex word as used in the scriptures and if you are holding to it without confirming what it actually means, you will be deceiving yourself.

Jman should us all the greek word translated spirit in that verse mean phantom and the word phantom means an imagination, illusion or ghost apparition.

that verse wasn't talking about spirit beings but ghosts(disembodied spirit of the deceased or apparition of a dead person).

Jesus was saying he was no ghost like they use to belief in

Now the question I will ask you is this" Can a dead person appear to the living?

The problem you have is fear of going against your church traditions, you don't want to find the exact meaning of words, you just want to assume complex things in one dimension without seeking evidence from their sources and I must tell you that you are a bad bible student, you are biased, you don't want to seek the truth but let me tell you, church doctrines are not always right, you need to go further to study on your own.

haibe:

the word spirit is a very complex word as used in the scriptures and if you are holding to it without confirming what it actually means, you will be deceiving yourself.

Jman should us all the greek word translated spirit in that verse mean phantom and the word phantom means an imagination, illusion or ghost apparition.

that verse wasn't talking about spirit beings but ghosts(disembodied spirit of the deceased or apparition of a dead person).

Jesus was saying he was no ghost like they use to belief in

Now the question I will ask you is this" Can a dead person appear to the living?

The problem you have is fear of going against your church traditions, you don't want to find the exact meaning of words, you just want to assume complex things in one dimension without seeking evidence from their sources and I must tell you that you are a bad bible student, you are biased, you don't want to seek the truth but let me tell you, church doctrines are not always right, you need to go further to study on your own.

and jman is wrong. same word used in greek is same as the words used for spirits. like when bible are describing the spirit beings.
there is no way the greek word was meaning phantom.

With you i have seeing alot of contradiction on jman and your self. some he has refused to answer or reply.

the Jerusalem that will come to earth. will God let only 144 thousand inside? and the rest of us will be outside walking?

haibe:

the word spirit is a very complex word as used in the scriptures and if you are holding to it without confirming what it actually means, you will be deceiving yourself.

Jman should us all the greek word translated spirit in that verse mean phantom and the word phantom means an imagination, illusion or ghost apparition.

that verse wasn't talking about spirit beings but ghosts(disembodied spirit of the deceased or apparition of a dead person).

Jesus was saying he was no ghost like they use to belief in

So did JMAN say the so called disembodied spirit of the deceased can be seen physically like the disciples saw Jesus? Please answer this question.

Now the question I will ask you is this" Can a dead person appear to the living?

The problem you have is fear of going against your church traditions, you don't want to find the exact meaning of words, you just want to assume complex things in one dimension without seeking evidence from their sources and I must tell you that you are a bad bible student, you are biased, you don't want to seek the truth but let me tell you, church doctrines are not always right, you need to go further to study on your own.

So did JMAN say the so called disembodied spirit of the deceased can be seen physically like the disciples saw Jesus? Please answer this question.

I have said it repeatedly here that scripture does not support that your idea of spirit of dead people going up and down in the world.

Jesus was talking about evil spirit. He knows dead men do not walk about. You are deceiving yourself Haibe!

That you are rebelling against your church is entirely your business. The doctrines of the Bible are not hard to find. They are clearly there. It is the 'know-it-all' fellows who refuses to come under authority that wonder here and there acquiring false doctrines, that will not see them.