JMAN05: ravgach

please attend to this;

1 Corinthians 15:52-54 KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of
an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the
dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be
changed. [53] For this
corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal
must put on immortality. [54] So
when this corruptible shall have
put on incorruption, and this
mortal shall have put on
immortality, then shall be
brought to pass the saying that
is written, Death is swallowed
up in victory."

From the above verse, this is the
area immortality appeared in the
bible for the dead.

1) if you say that we are inherently
immortal, why then do we[b] put
on [/b]immortality?

The scripture 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 you quoted above, is referring to the body of the dead saints in the grave that
is resurrected. The spirit of the saints will leave their abode in heaven with the power of God on the resurrection morning
and will enter the bodies in their graves or wherever they may have died. The body will now be changed, transfigured,
translated, transformed (become immortal) like that of the angels of God. "At the resurrection people...be like the angels
in heaven". Matthew 22:30. The immortality here refers to the body and not the spirit. The spirit is already immortal by
nature.


2) if we have an immortal soul, it
also means that we have an
incorruptible soul( if you say no,
then you are not being consistent).
Then why put on incorruptibility?

There are two things here:
1. The spirit is both immortal and incorruptible. Please note that the scripture you are referring to here
is not talking about the spirit at all.
2. The body, which is the subject of Paul in the passage, is mortal and corruptible. That is why it will become
like the spirit on the resurrection day.


3. Did you notice that it was when
the saints put on immortality that
"death will be swallowed forever"
because no one will die again?

If it is only spirits that will inherit
heaven according to the above, and
if our spirits do not die with us,
then why did that verse say death
is swallowed forever in Christ
presence?

Please try and understand that the scriptures is written in context. When you take it out of context, you will be
throwing all of us into deep confusion.

The passage is talking about the body that is now transformed on the resurrection morning. If you ask your questions
in this light, you will be helping yourself to understand it better. Right now, you seem to be mixing everything up.


If we follow your doctrine, cant we say that death is already swallowed forever, after all we live on after death?

1 Corinthians 15:18 KJV
Then they also which are fallen
asleep in Christ are perished.
Why could Paul say that our faith is
in vain if the dead are not to be
raised up? Will that make sense if
after death, our souls keep on living
in heaven?

Is this place not in agreement with
the formular I gave in the outset?
Lifeless soul + the breath of life = living soul?

Did the breath have life before it
came to the flesh?

another one you omitted:

1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
"But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits; afterward
they that are Christ's at his
coming."

So it is during his coming that the
saints will smell heaven, not
before.

Jesus never went to his father
unless AFTER resurrection.

You are correct to say that Jesus never went to heaven until he resurrected. He went to Paradise Luke 23:42. But after his resurrection, all the saints left paradise and went to heaven Matthew 27:52. From that time onwards, all believers who die, go to heaven straight albeit spiritually Acts 7:54-59. The bodies of the saints will still be in the graves until the day of resurrection when their spirits will return and quicken their bodies making them take to be transfigured, changed, translated like the bodies on angels, becoming immortal.


another:

Ok. Spirits dont die. Spirits of animals
go to heaven? Spirits of evil men are in
heaven? That is true, right?

Jesus did not die to save animals my brother. The scripture is silent on animals in this context. I will also be silent on it.

Everyman will be resurrected both saints and sinners John 5:28,29. No sinner will enter heaven or even see it (john 3:3-5)


Not only lazarus but no single person
who was resurrected told any story
about heaven. That is an indication
that they no nothing at all after death.
Eccl. 9;5, 10.

ravgach:

The challenge I have noticed dealing with you here, is that you have a pre-conceived idea/notion. Your mind has already been prejudiced. I perceive you may have been seriously indoctrinated and that has not allowed you to see things without colorations. I said this because no matter what scripture you are given here, they will be seen from your biased understanding.

ravgach:

2 Kings 2:11
"As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went UP TO HEAVEN in a whirlwind".

ravgach:


Genesis 5:24
"Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away".

ravgach:

Luke 23:43
”Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

I can categorically say that based on Luke 23:43 above, Elijah and Enoch went to Paradise with all the other ancient believers. This is also in line with the assertion of Jesus in John 3:13:
“No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.”

haibe: @ravgach any passage in the old testament to support your claim that when one dies he goes to paradise or hell immediately?

I see you don't really understand the contexts of the new testament.

JMAN05:


I think you are the one hardening your reason here.

1) my friend I am saying that you cant say John saw conscious souls under an altar literally and still say it is symbolic. If you say the souls are literal, then the altar is literal. So during the fulfilment John will see humans under an altar? John is telling us that what he is seeing are souls underneath an altar. If you say protection. Protection from what?

2) when they asked how long b4 their blood is to be avenged, no answer was giving them. No. this not correct. An answer was actually given: Verse 11:"...and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were , should be fulfilled."
That is just calling for justice. Yes they called for justice (they are real not figurative and they were in heaven) but they also got an answer.


Revelation 6:10-11 KJV
"And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were , should be fulfilled."

I dont think that There being told to wait is not for protection . Protection from what? In heaven? (Remember that this is after handing them white robes). The question is show a scripture saying the alter is a symbol of protection. and I gave the above quote showing that being on or under the alter depicts protection. Does this show the alter is also a symbol of protection or not? Please also read 1 Kings 1: 51: "Then Solomon was told, “Adonijah is afraid of King Solomon and is clinging to the horns of the altar. He says, ‘Let King Solomon swear to me today that he will not put his servant to death with the sword.’”



I never said the breath of life is life, but i am trying to say that it is a life-force that activated the lifeless body.

I used electricity as an eg. When NEPA supply power, your radio begins to work, but when it is interrupted the radio stops working. Now, the eletricity cant exist by itself without the radio and the radio cant work without the electricity. Subtitute radio for lifeless body(or lifeless soul) and electricity for breath of life (spirit). That agrees with the formular:

lifeless soul + breath of life = living soul.

And living soul - breath of life = lifeless soul.
Gen. 2:7

That is what i can gather from that verse. So when the bible says the breath goes back to God, I conclude that this breath doesnt have a conscious existence of itself apart from the body. Stop making unbiblical conclusions. You have admitted that the breath is not spirit so why are you still confused? It then means that that statement shows that the person's future life prospect rest on God. That is not what it means. There is a spirit that never dies. That spirit is a personality and it goes back to God at death.


Saying that the spirit continues to live will lead to the question: where was that spirit before it came into adam?

Let me also ask you: Where were angels before they become visible? If you answer this question, then it will be easier for you to answer your question.


1. How can it be a sorrowful thing for a sinner since he spirit continues to stay with God in heaven?

2. Wasnt adam and eve sinners? How then are they in heaven? Read gen 3:19.

Adam and Eve are not sinners! They fell from grace and God sought for them and redeemed them.

When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, God gave them skins to cover up with (Genesis 3:21). To get those skins, some animal had to die. In other words, God sacrificed an animal to cover their sin. From the beginning, God has declared the payment for sin is death, and so blood must be shed to cover sin:


Leviticus 17:11: “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.”

Hebrews 9:22: “In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” Please let's not get distracted by this one. If you want to discuss it, let's do it another day.

Please shed more light on what you mean. In this dispensation, meaning what? I am talking about the advice. This dispensation means in the New Testament.


Solomon says that there is no knowledge, no work etc where you are going. Meaning that we should make good use of our life now cos we are unconscious at death.

If we exist at heaven after death, will there be any need for this advice? At least we will be conscious, we can hate, love, have wisdom, knowledge etc.

Is he not limiting our destination after death to a situation of consciousness? Remember he said, the place to which you are GOING.

I have explained this repeatedly here. The words of Solomon cannot in any way supersede the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ. Please take the words of Jesus.

If spirits are kept until resurrection, why then do you say that spirits go to heaven after death?

Let me get you, are you saying that the spirits in all humans do not have corruption? What do you mean by corruption here? If it means decay as the 1 Corinthians 15 puts it, then it is a fact of scripture. But if you mean sin in another context, then some do have corruption. Sinners do.

1. Be specific, point out the scripture you use in supporting that they will rise as flesh and then translated.

2. Are they being resurrected in the flesh as immortals?

1cor. 15 is talking about a different thing.

Please read 1 Corinthians 15 and digest it.


At matthew Jesus was talking about the fulfilment of some scriptural interpretation, not seeing him.

Read the context of hebrews 11, you will see that it is talking about the promise of the kingdom.

Hebrews 11:13-16 KJV
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them , and embraced them , and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. [14] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. [15] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. [16] But now they desire a better country , that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hebrews 11 verse 13 and verse 39 are not ta1lking about the same thing. Hebrew 11:13 talks about promises while verse 39 is talking about a PROMISE. We have to rightly divide the word of truth.



Hebrews 11:35 KJV
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:"

As such i think that the saints will resurrect before the prechristian men. Whoever resurrects first what does that matter? After all they will all resurrect in the first resurrection. If you have seen that they rise first and then we will follow after should that be an argument?

Jesus said:

John 3:13
'And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, the son of man'

Christ is the first to be resurrected into heaven, the saints will follow after.

1 Corinthians 15:20 KJV
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become [size=15pt]the firstfruits of them that slept[/size]."

1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

You are just muddling things up
here. You are confusing those who
want to understand the scriptures
as it is written. In Hebrews
12:21-24:
The Apostle was addressing
Christian jews. He was basically
comparing Judaism with the faith in
Christ. He was comparing the
Heavenly Jerusalem with was the
hope of the believers with the
Mount from which Moses received
the law. Remember that these
Jews hold Moses and the Law
sacred. He took out time to
describe the Heavenly Jerusalem to
these Christian Jews. He now
brought out some of the
outstanding features of this heaven
which is now their hope compared
to the Mount they hold sacred.
These were some of the things he
highlighted:
1. Mount Zion - Heavenly
Jerusalem
2. Myriads of Angels
3. General Assembly (The elders
etc.) - The Church
4. God, Judge of all
5. The Spirits of Just Men
6. Jesus Christ
7. The Blood of Jesus
There is no way these can be
talking about the Christian Jews
themselves. It is talking about
Heaven (Mount Zion, Heavenly
Jerusalem). It is as clear as clear
itself. You can only distort it but
the truth stands out. Let us be a bit
truthful in the things we say.

It is true he was comparing the law covenant and that of christ. But also note that as he was speaking about the law covenant, he spoke about those who approached it. Mere looking at his word from verse 22 looks as if he is listing what is in heaven. But note that on the part of the law covenant, he was listing things that happened on that day at sinai, but as he was writing this letter he is not listing what happened during the new covenant. That is the difference. Granted he listed what is in heaven From verses 22 to first part of 23. But when he said congregation of firstborn enrolled in the heaven. He cant understand this to mean the faithful men of old cos it is Jesus disciples who are said to resurrect after christ, not now, but during his presence. 1cor. 15; 20, 23 compare rev 20:4

The spirits of Just ones refers to the spiritual life this saints live. The same thing was said in verse 9.

Hebrews 12:9 KJV
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us , and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of (our NIV) spirits, and live?"

HE WAS DESCRIBING HEAVEN nothing in that passage is describing the Jewish Christians. Please say what the scriptures say.


On the issue of ecclesiates inspiration. I am stunned at your dishonesty. Are you denying your comment? I dont discuss with insincere people. More of this, i will withdraw.

Your words:

why not
allow
the Spirit of God to assist you?
Check
out Solomon's doubts like yours
before
he was inspired:

Deny it.

I will say I am sorry here for your misunderstanding me. I didn't mean he was not inspired. It is semantics. All scripture is inspired. But we have to understand that the writers have their own minds. It was not a dictation they are writing. Sometime they themselves doubt what is revealed as a result of the level of their understanding. If you check the passage you will see that Solomon asked a question. So if I say he doubted, I am not wrong at all.


As for the psalms 146;4, you are correct, i was wrong. The "he" refers to the man not breath.

How about the Lord Jesus Christ? Did
Jesus not tell his disciples about
heaven before and after he rose from
the dead?
The issue of going to heave
immediately after death for the
present new testament believer is
never, never in doubt.
When the members of the Sanhedrin
heard this, they were furious and
gnashed their teeth at him. But
Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked
up TO HEAVEN and saw THE GLORY OF
GOD AND JESUS STANDING AT THE
RIGHT HAND OF GOD. “Look,” he said,
“I see heaven open and the Son of
Man standing at the right hand of
God.” At this they covered their ears
and, yelling at the top of their voices,
they all rushed at him, dragged him
out of the city and began to stone
him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid
their coats at the feet of a young man
named Saul. While they were stoning
him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus,
receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his
knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold
this sin against them.” When he had
said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:54-59

I HOPE YOU WILL NOT SAY IT IS
SYMBOLIC

1. And i asked: Ok. Spirits dont die. Spirits of
animals go to heaven? Spirits of evil
men are in heaven? That is true,
right?

Answer it.

2. Jesus talked about heaven because he came from there. Paul cant talk about it except from vision, trance or any other supernatural means.

3. I said it is not literal. Stephen having known what Jesus said that he is the truth and life. He knew that he is capable of restoring his life even when he is killed.

I dont know if you know what resurrection means at all. Please check and see whether when one goes to heaven, whether you can view that one as dead again.

Where was the soul before he began to exist on earth, and it also means that animals are in heaven, not so?

haibe:

The verse says "they went UP to heaven", my question is this: the paradise you are talkin about here, is it up in heaven or down here on earth?

haibe:

How does this passage prove that he went to paradise or even heaven?

If God did take him to paradise or heaven straight, how then is it possible that he died as the bible later told us?

JMAN05: pls tell me where this paradise is, heaven or in the grave?

secondly Will all the righteous be in heaven?

haibe:

Firstly you accused be of following traditions, i then made it known to you that the church i attend does not support me on this issue.

Secondly you accused me of not wanting to follow organized bible teaching and that i like to pick from every doctrines flying around, i then made it known to you that no church is perfect and that's why i have to see if what they teach is in line with the scriptures in order not to be tossed by every wind of doctrine.

Thirdly you are accusing me of being indoctrinated and that my mind has already been prejudiced.

At this point i must say you are giving me the notion that you are a confused fellow.

ravgach:

Ok. Now tell us this is symbolic. Tell us his body was later found on mount Ararat by some unknown archeologists. Tell us also where it is written in the scriptures that he died later.

ravgach:

These scriptures will very well answer your question above:

John 3:13:
“No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.”

Luke 16:23-25:
"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.…

haibe: @ravgach any passage in the old testament to support your claim that when one dies he goes to paradise or hell immediately?

I see you don't really understand the contexts of the new testament.

haibe:

Hebrew 11:13

So how then is it possible that he was just taken to heaven?

haibe:

Wait a minute!! Are you saying Abraham's bosom in that parable is paradise

Mogbe Oº°˚˚°ºh

Oo so paradise is in hades? Why then do we need another paradise(new jerusalem) in the future if abraham's bosom in hades is paradise?

Lol bro let me make it simple to you, we have just 2 paradise in the bible, the one man lost(the garden of eden) and the one we will gain in the end(new jerusalem)

So bro your theology is unbiblical, this is perverting the word of God, how can you compare abraham's bosom in Jesus parable with the paradise God has prepared for us to dwell in? You won't cease to amaze me ravgach.

So that place the rich man was is the hell which the evil ones will go right?

My goodness.

haibe:

@ravgach my question did not seek for paradise only.

Any old testament prove that when an evil person dies, he goes to hell immediately?

You refused to answer this, why? Any prove of this from the OT ??

ravgach:

"The wicked shall return to hell, all the nations that forget God." Psalm 9:17; Isaiah 5:14

"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure..." Isaiah 5:14

The scripture is complete.

ravgach:



2. Paradise becomes invisible here on earth - Luke 23:43; Luke 16:24
3. Paradise relocated to heaven 2 Cor.12:2-4; Rev.2:7

ravgach:

Hebrews 11:13
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

This does in any way say that Enoch died later in the sense you mean. The scripture used the word "All died" in a general sense. This where rightly dividing the word of truth comes handy. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15:50 that "Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom" that is why God had to "translate" him. Take him alive to Paradise without him seeing death but without flesh and blood. It is a miraculous change of form. This is what will happen to those who will still be alive when the rapture will take place. They will not die like normal mortals, they will rather be transfigured, changed, translated. That was what happened to Enoch. He did not die.

This what scripture said concerning him:

Hebrews 11:5

"By faith Enoch was translated that HE SHOULD NOT SEE DEATH; and was not found, because God HAD TRANSLATED HIM: for before [b]HIS TRANSLATION [/b]he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

We must ensure that we interpret scriptures honestly and with the fear of God.

JMAN05: unanswered:

1. And i asked: Ok. Spirits dont die.
Spirits of
animals go to heaven? Spirits of evil
men are in heaven? That is true,
right?

second:

concerning the saints you said that the altar symbolic protection

Protection from what? In heaven?

haibe:

My goodness, when does translation start meaning to go to heaven? I don't seem to understand you bro, why are you twisting scriptures, the bible never said he went to heaven immediately.

God took enoch doesn't mean he was taken to heaven, we have other records translation, it doesn't mean he went to heaven.

ravgach:

You are either insincere or absent minded.

You know I did not say "go to heaven" as you are insinuating. I have said it over and over again on the platform that no Old Testament Saint went to heaven until the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Enoch went to paradise when he was translated. But right now, he is in heaven
Matthew 27:52.

haibe:

Of course by heaven i meant paradise, you said heaven is also known as paradise, am not disputing that.

So how does that passage mean that enoch went to paradise?

And the bible says elijah went "up to heaven", but according to you, paradise is invisible on earth, how is that in agreement with your claim?

You just love to confuse yourself, the word heaven is also used the denote thee sky, elijah was taken up to the sky not an invisible paradise, your arguments are not in line with the scriptures, your interpretations are poor, my gosh am tired of arguing with you, you seem to just be following what your pastors or fathers are teaching you, you are not opened to finding the truth at all.

ravgach:

You have just admitted that the two words "heaven" and "paradise" are sometimes used interchangeably see 2 Cor.12:2-4. When the writer of the event of Elijah's translation wrote: "Elijah went up to heaven by a whirlwind", what does that mean in the face of John 3:13: “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man?” Please answer the question sincerely and do not tell me it is symbolic.

We all want to learn but being mischievous should not be part of it at all.

haibe:
I never said heaven is interchangeable with paradise, i was only using the idea people like you have of paradise, they generally say we are going to heaven, when in fact paradise is coming out from heaven to the earth, so its human idea that paradise is the same as heaven not the bible's idea.

2 cor 12 is not still supporting your point, paradise is presently in heaven, so if paul says he was taken up to paradise, it means he was taken up to heaven in essence, that's very logical, it doesn't mean paradise and heaven are the same thing.

John is right, excluding Jesus no one has ascended to heaven, neither has anyone gone to paradise after death, the heaven here doesn't correlate as regards elijah taken "UP TO HEAVEN".

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"(Gen 1:1)

"...and in multiplying, i will multiply thee as the stars of the heaven.."(Gen 22:17)

"...and let moses sprinkle it towards the heaven in the sight of pharoah"(Exo 9:

"...and worshipped all the host of heaven and served baal" (2 kings 17:16)

Is the heaven used here in this verses God's abode or paradise or the sky??

ravgach:

I think we should just nickname you MARADONA

No. this
not correct. An answer was actually
given: Verse 11:"...and it was said
unto them, that they should rest
yet for a little season, until their
fellow servants also and their
brethren, that should be killed as
they were , should be fulfilled."

Yes
they called for justice (they are real
not figurative and they were in
heaven) but they also got an
answer.

The
question is show a scripture saying
the alter is a symbol of protection.
and I gave the above quote
showing that being on or under the
alter depicts protection. Does this
show the alter is also a symbol of
protection or not? Please also read
1 Kings 1: 51: "Then Solomon was
told, “Adonijah is afraid of King
Solomon and is clinging to the
horns of the altar. He says, ‘Let
King Solomon swear to me today
that he will not put his servant to
death with the sword.’”

Stop making
unbiblical conclusions. You have
admitted that the breath is not
spirit so why are you still confused?

That is not
what it means. There is a spirit that
never dies. That spirit is a
personality and it goes back to God
at death.

Let me also ask you: Where were
angels before they become visible?
If you answer this question, then it
will be easier for you to answer
your question.

Adam and Eve are not sinners!
They fell from grace and God
sought for them and redeemed
them.
When Adam and Eve sinned in the
garden, God gave them skins to
cover up with (Genesis 3:21). To
get those skins, some animal had to
die. In other words, God sacrificed
an animal to cover their sin. From
the beginning, God has declared
the payment for sin is death, and
so blood must be shed to cover sin:
Leviticus 17:11: “For the life of a
creature is in the blood, and I have
given it to you to make atonement
for yourselves on the altar; it is the
blood that makes atonement for
one’s life.”
Hebrews 9:22: “In fact, the law
requires that nearly everything be
cleansed with blood, and without
the shedding of blood there is no
'forgiveness.” Please let's not get
distracted by this one. If you want
to discuss it, let's do it another day

This dispensation
means in the New Testament.

I have explained this repeatedly
here. The words of Solomon cannot
in any way supersede the Words of
our Lord Jesus Christ. Please take
the words of Jesus.

What do you
mean by corruption here? If it
means decay as the 1 Corinthians
15 puts it, then it is a fact of
scripture. But if you mean sin in
another context, then some do
have corruption. Sinners do.

Please read 1 Corinthians 15 and
digest it.

Hebrews 11 verse 13 and verse 39
are not ta1lking about the same
thing. Hebrew 11:13 talks about
promises while verse 39 is talking
about a PROMISE. We have to
rightly divide the word of truth.

Whoever resurrects first what
does that matter? After all they will
all resurrect in the first
resurrection. If you have seen that
they rise first and then we will
follow after should that be an
argument?

HE WAS DESCRIBING HEAVEN
nothing in that passage is describing
the Jewish Christians. Please say
what the scriptures say.

I will say I am sorry here for your
misunderstanding me. I didn't
mean he was not inspired. It is
semantics. All scripture is inspired.
But we have to understand that the
writers have their own minds. It
was not a dictation they are
writing. Sometime they themselves
doubt what is revealed as a result
of the level of their understanding.
If you check the passage you will
see that Solomon asked a question.
So if I say he doubted, I am not
wrong at all.

The scripture 1 Corinthians
15:52-54 you quoted above, is
referring to the body of the dead
saints in the grave that
is resurrected. The spirit of the
saints will leave their abode in
heaven with the power of God on
the resurrection morning
and will enter the bodies in their
graves or wherever they may have
died. The body will now be
changed, transfigured,
translated, transformed (become
immortal) like that of the angels of
God. "At the resurrection
people...be like the angels
in heaven". Matthew 22:30. The
immortality here refers to the body
and not the spirit. The spirit is
already immortal by
nature.

There are two things here:
1. The spirit is both immortal and
incorruptible. Please note that the
scripture you are referring to here
is not talking about the spirit at all.
2. The body, which is the subject of
Paul in the passage, is mortal and
corruptible. That is why it will
become
like the spirit on the resurrection
day.

Please try and understand that the
scriptures is written in context.
When you take it out of context,
you will be
throwing all of us into deep
confusion.
The passage is talking about the
body that is now transformed on
the resurrection morning. If you
ask your questions
in this light, you will be helping
yourself to understand it better.
Right now, you seem to be mixing
everything up.

You are correct to say that Jesus
never went to heaven until he
resurrected. He went to Paradise
Luke 23:42. But after his
resurrection, all the saints left
paradise and went to heaven
Matthew 27:52. From that time
onwards, all believers who die, go
to heaven straight albeit spiritually
Acts 7:54-59. The bodies of the
saints will still be in the graves until
the day of resurrection when their
spirits will return and quicken their
bodies making them take to be
transfigured, changed, translated
like the bodies on angels, becoming
immortal.

Jesus did not die to save animals
my brother. The scripture is silent
on animals in this context. I will
also be silent on it.

Everyman will be resurrected both
saints and sinners John 5:28,29. No
sinner will enter heaven or even
see it (john 3:3-5)

The Chief of those resurrected (Jesus
Christ) talked about heaven. Luke
16:24

ravgach:
But after his ressurection, all the saints left paradise and went to heaven MATTEW 27:52. From that time onwards, all believers who die, go to heaven straight