ravgach:


Why did Jesus tell them spirits (ghosts) did not exist? Was it hard for Him to tell them?

And how are you sure he did not later tell them, you think every single thing that happened is written in the bible? SMH!!

No where in the epistles or acts of the apostle after the disciples have received the holy ghost, no where did they talk about ghosts, if ghosts really existed, they could have mentioned it at least once but obviously they got to know that the dead are in their grave and are awaiting resurrection and the idea of ghosts are false.

haibe:

Jesus did not believe in ghosts, his superstitious apostles did, Jesus knew the truth, when the apostles encountered something they could not understand, they immediately assumed it was a ghost according to their belief and Jesus knowing what they meant by ghost told them he wasn't a ghost.

That was their superstitious belief then which amazingly people like you still hold on to it, i must say this is my most shocking day on nairaland, a christian believing in ghosts.

When they have no faith he rebuked them. When they believe the doctrine of the Pharisees, he rebuked them. When they had wrong assumptions about themselves and their positions, he rebuked them. How come he never told them there was nothing like a spirit (ghost)?

You are accusing the disciples of Jesus of being superstitious here and Jesus did not correct them? And there is no place in scripture where he corrected them or said a spirit or ghost did not exist. May be Jesus was superstitious too as Haibe would want us to believe. Haibe is the one being superstitious as a result of the wrong teachings he has opened up his spirit to.

haibe:

And how are you sure he did not later tell them, you think every single thing that happened is written in the bible? SMH!!

No where in the epistles or acts of the apostle after the disciples have received the holy ghost, no where did they talk about ghosts, if ghosts really existed, they could have mentioned it at least once but obviously they got to know that the dead are in their grave and are awaiting resurrection and the idea of ghosts are false.

That is the only way you can explain this false notion away. To tell us only you have access to where it was kept away. Or tell us it was a symbol or not literal. How can a bible student be talking about what is not written?
Well I know better my brother. Spirits exists and they are as real as you and I are.

My questin is how do know Jesus did not later tell them that ghosts don't exist?

haibe:

We are talking about the spirit in man now, don't deviate our attention, the spirit in man is not a person.

Jesus was telling them he was not a ghost, like the egyptian mythology which some christians are bringing to the christian faith, he was not a ghost, he resurrected, he is alive.

Ok you mean Jesus believed in mythology is that? Because he said I am NOT A GHOST. It means he knows what a Ghost is. He went a step further to actually run some 'spiritual tests' on himself to prove his point and you are there tell us you know better than Jesus? I am not one of your disciples sir.

You must write your own Bible Haibe.

Itsfacts: @jman if we, our spirit or personality don't go to God when we die, what goes to God then?

as you are a witness and did not believe Jesus body that was dead stood up again in a glorious body. Does that mean
1: he was recreated?
2: if yes that means he is not the Jesus that died for us.

recall you say the spirit is just a breath and it has no personality.

so how do you explain someone different from the one put to death to be the new creature as you guys put it spirit creature to be Jesus.

In the resurrection, it is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. Jesus was raised a spirit. that is why he appeared and disappeared. he even appeared in different fleshly bodies depending on the situation. this he didnt do before death. to reinforce in the minds of his disciples that he was a spirit materialized.

how do you expect Jesus to have the same body he gave in sacrifice? if you go to sacrifice your bull for sin, do you expect to receive it back? do you think we are doing film tricks here?

during the last supper, Jesus showed that his flesh (loaf) and blood (wine), will be given in our behalf. he can have that body and blood again. of course flesh and blood cant be in heaven where Jesus is going.

1 Corinthians 15:38, 47 KJV
But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Jesus and the saints receive heavenly bodies. this is not a visibly body, but in Jesus case he materialised fleshly bodies.

2. Jah preserves a record our the life of those he is going to resurrect. exod. 32:33, deut. 29:20.

that record is the important thing God needs before giving it a new body. he doesnt need the spirit or life force. the life force will only come in after the body is there.

how do you explain the disciples believing in spirit and the fact that spirit has personality which is inside our body. You know Jesus have to convince them he is not a spirit and it doesn't have flesh and bones.

Jesus was just trying to emphasize to them that he was no phantom or apparition. he appeared with a physical body, so no need to doubt what they were seeing, as if it was a product of there imagination or vision.

ravgach:

That is the only way you can explain this false notion away. To tell us only you have access to where it was kept away. Or tell us it was a symbol or not literal. How can a bible student be talking about what is not written?
Well I know better my brother. Spirits exists and they are as real as you and I are.

See John 21:25 you don't seem sound to me

Be specific, ghosts or spirit beings

If ghosts then you are an heretic, if spirit beings like angels you are right

Itsfacts: @jman if we, our spirit or personality don't go to God when we die, what goes to God then?

as you are a witness and did not believe Jesus body that was dead stood up again in a glorious body. Does that mean
1: he was recreated?
2: if yes that means he is not the Jesus that died for us.

recall you say the spirit is just a breath and it has no personality.

so how do you explain someone different from the one put to death to be the new creature as you guys put it spirit creature to be Jesus.

In the resurrection, it is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. Jesus was raised a spirit. that is why he appeared and disappeared. he even appeared in different fleshly bodies depending on the situation. this he didnt do before death. to reinforce in the minds of his disciples that he was a spirit materialized.

how do you expect Jesus to have the same body he gave in sacrifice? if you go to sacrifice your bull for sin, do you expect to receive it back? do you think we are doing film tricks here?

during the last supper, Jesus showed that his flesh (loaf) and blood (wine), will be given in our behalf. he can have that body and blood again. of course flesh and blood cant be in heaven where Jesus is going.

1 Corinthians 15:38, 47 KJV
But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Jesus and the saints receive heavenly bodies. this is not a visibly body, but in Jesus case he materialised fleshly bodies.

2. Jah preserves a record our the life of those he is going to resurrect. exod. 32:33, deut. 29:20.

that record is the important thing God needs before giving it a new body. he doesnt need the spirit or life force. the life force will only come in after the body is there.

how do you explain the disciples believing in spirit and the fact that spirit has personality which is inside our body. You know Jesus have to convince them he is not a spirit and it doesn't have flesh and bones.

Jesus was just trying to emphasize to them that he was no phantom or apparition. he appeared with a physical body, so no need to doubt what they were seeing, as if it was a product of there imagination or vision.

haibe: My questin is how do know Jesus did not later tell them that ghosts don't exist?

The scriptures did not record it. It actually recorded Jesus describing and giving the characteristics of a spirit (ghost). This shows Jesus knows what a ghost is and actually believes in them as he encountered all manner of evil spirits during the course of his ministry.

ravgach:
Well I know better my brother. Spirits exists and they are as real as you and I are.

See John 21:25 you don't seem sound to me

Be specific, ghosts or spirit beings

If ghosts then you are an heretic, if spirit beings like angels you are right

.

JMAN05:

In the resurrection, it is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. Jesus was raised a spirit. that is why he appeared and disappeared. he even appeared in different fleshly bodies depending on the situation. this he didnt do before death. to reinforce in the minds of his disciples that he was a spirit materialized.

I do not accept what you are explaining here my brother but I congratulate you for at least accepting that spirits exist.

Please find a way to explain it to Haibe so he can go and face other important things.

ravgach:

I do not accept what you are explaining here my brother but I congratulate you for at least accepting that spirits exist.

Please find a way to explain it to Haibe so he can go and face other important things.

No one is doubting that spirit beings exist, our argument has been that ghosts do not exist or that the spirit in man is not a person.

haibe:

See John 21:25 you don't seem sound to me

Be specific, ghosts or spirit beings

If ghosts then you are an heretic, if spirit beings like angels you are right

Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, ghosts, evil spirit. Please explain to us the difference between ghosts and spirits? You that is a Greek teacher all of a sudden, did not now know or understand what the disciples thought Jesus was. Why are u doing things like this?

ravgach:

Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, ghosts, evil spirit. Please explain to us the difference between ghosts and spirits?

Ghost is an archaic word for the word spirit, they are sometimes used interchangeably but ghosts presently are used strictly to explain the dead coming to interact with the living.

So please Jesus is not a ghost, he is alive.

ravgach:

Jesus knows what a ghost is and actually believes in them as he encountered all manner of evil spirits during the course of his ministry.

You are a confused fellow, don't you know the difference between ghosts and evil spirit/demons/unclean spirits that Jesus encountered?

So the apostles thought Jesus was an evil spirit when they saw him? SMH!!!

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 states, "For the living
are conscious that they will die; but as for
the dead, they are conscious of nothing at
all, neither do they anymore have wages,
because the remembrance of them has
been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and
their hate and their jealousy have already
perished, and they have no portion
anymore to time indefinite in anything
that has to be done under the sun."

@ravgach how can you reconcile this verses with your theory of ghosts existing, even though they are to be dead and unconscious?

And how can you reconcile the idea of ghosts with your heresy of the spirit of the dead going to heaven or hell after they die?

Will they be released from heaven or hell again to interact with those on earth?

You are just confusing yourself and contradicting yourself mister.

After answering the questions you can forget about the ghost of a thing in order not to derail this thread, perhaps i will open another thread so we can trash out your mythology of the existence of ghosts even though the bible says the dead are in their grave waiting for resurrection.

JMAN05:

In the resurrection, it is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. Jesus was raised a spirit. that is why he appeared and disappeared. he even appeared in different fleshly bodies depending on the situation. this he didnt do before death. to reinforce in the minds of his disciples that he was a spirit materialized.

Jesus did not resurrect a spirit. He resurrected with his full body even though it was now glorified. He was never a spirit in any form. Check out his encounter with Thomas: "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." John 20:26-27. He resurrected in the same body that he was crucified with though now glorified. It was not this glorified body that made Him appear and disappear. He had this power before. It is true that this time he increased in power after he resurrected. He was more in touch with Heaven than His disciples for the one month plus he was around after resurrection. He was physically here, he was not a spirit at all.


how do you expect Jesus to have the same body he gave in sacrifice? if you go to sacrifice your bull for sin, do you expect to receive it back? do you think we are doing film tricks here?

Jesus had that body back. Though it is glorified by this time and had greater spiritual and physical powers.


during the last supper, Jesus showed that his flesh (loaf) and blood (wine), will be given in our behalf. he can have that body and blood again. of course flesh and blood cant be in heaven where Jesus is going.

Jesus definitely did not go up into heaven with flesh and blood. He had already presented the blood of atonement to the Father immediately he came out of the grave. This made him tell Mary not to touch him until he had gone to the Father. He went back to heaven in his glorified body not as a spirit.


1 Corinthians 15:38, 47 KJV
But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Jesus and the saints receive heavenly bodies. this is not a visibly body, but in Jesus case he materialised fleshly bodies. It is going to be as visible as the body of Christ.


2. Jah preserves a record our the life of those he is going to resurrect. exod. 32:33, deut. 29:20. Everyone will be resurrected both good and evil. John 5:28-29


that record is the important thing God needs before giving it a new body. he doesnt need the spirit or life force. the life force will only come in after the body is there. I did not really get what you are explaining here, but if it is resurrection, the spirit is actually the most important ingredient because the spirit is the real man not the body.


Jesus was just trying to emphasize to them that he was no phantom or apparition. he appeared with a physical body, so no need to doubt what they were seeing, as if it was a product of there imagination or vision.

No my brother. Jesus know spirits exist just the same way the disciples do. He convinced them he was not a spirit by those valid proofs. This is one of the times Jesus appeared suddenly to the disciples. It was not the resurrection that made him appear and disappear. He had this ability as God in the flesh.

haibe: Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 states, "For the living
are conscious that they will die; but as for
the dead, they are conscious of nothing at
all, neither do they anymore have wages,
because the remembrance of them has
been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and
their hate and their jealousy have already
perished, and they have no portion
anymore to time indefinite in anything
that has to be done under the sun."

@ravgach how can you reconcile this verses with your theory of ghosts existing, even though they are to be dead and unconscious?

And how can you reconcile the idea of ghosts with your heresy of the spirit of the dead going to heaven or hell after they die?

Will they be released from heaven or hell again to interact with those on earth?

You are just confusing yourself and contradicting yourself mister.

You have just refused to learn! There is Ecclesiastes 12:7 after Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.

ravgach:

You have just refused to learn! There is Ecclesiastes 12:7 after Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.

Learn what? Just recocile it with your heresy.
And ecclesiastes 12:7 doesn't prove that ghosts exist.
Both passages were inspired by the Holy Spirit

haibe:

Learn what? Just recocile it with your heresy.

Both passages were inspired by the Holy Spirit

Yes they were inspired but you have to count one before you count two. Chapter 12 of Ecclesiastes is a higher inspiration than Chapter 9

ravgach:

Yes they were inspired but you have to count one before you count two. Chapter 12 of Ecclesiastes is a higher inspiration than Chapter 9

Another mis-conception, all scriptures is given by inspiration of the holy spiri, no one has an higher inspiration than the other.

And what makes you think solomon got inspired with the words in chapter 12 after chapter 9, how does penning down arrangement prove that he got inspired in one chapter before the other.

I think at this point you should know that the bible is not written in an exact chronological order, the inspiration of chapter 12 possibly came before chapter 9

@ravgach your idea of a disembodied spirit is pathetic and now you add the existence of ghost to make things worse.

Did God ever mention that Adam will
become spirit/ghost so he can be punished
in hell? No. God simply said,
Adam was made from dust (non existent
material), he will return to that state for
he had forfeited his everlasting life to
live.

According to the Bible, all humans will
grow old and die starting the day that
Adam sinned. But the relief is God
provided his son Jesus as a perfect human
to die to buy back the everlasting life
that Adam had lost so everyone could
have a chance to live forever again in the
near future(resurrection)

Ascribing immortality to a man's spirit is giving man what he does not posess and making God's reward of immortality to man look meaningless.

You had better stop teaching false doctrines of immortal disembodied spirits and existence of ghosts before you cause innocent people who are willing to know the truth to believe a lie like you too.

@haibe you are just confused. I have told you that you cant assume concerning the scripture. You are using assumption to back up your stand for that no one will take you seriously.

Itsfacts: @haibe you are just confused. I have told you that you cant assume concerning the scripture. You are using assumption to back up your stand for that no one will take you seriously.

Assume what?

Itsfacts: @haibe you are just confused. I have told you that you cant assume concerning the scripture. You are using assumption to back up your stand for that no one will take you seriously.

You are the one assuming mister.

Show me where the bible specifically support the existence of ghosts.

Show me where the bible specifically stated that when a man dies, he goes straight to heaven

Or when an evil person dies, he goes straight to hell immediately.

Who does he go and meet in hell?

haibe: Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 states, "For the living
are conscious that they will die; but as for
the dead, they are conscious of nothing at
all, neither do they anymore have wages,
because the remembrance of them has
been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and
their hate and their jealousy have already
perished, and they have no portion
anymore to time indefinite in anything
that has to be done under the sun."

@ravgach how can you reconcile this verses with your theory of ghosts existing, even though they are to be dead and unconscious?

And how can you reconcile the idea of ghosts with your heresy of the spirit of the dead going to heaven or hell after they die?

Will they be released from heaven or hell again to interact with those on earth?

You are just confusing yourself and contradicting yourself mister.

@itsfact you can help ravgach in answering this since you both believe in ghosts and contradictorily believe that the dead goes to either heaven or hell "immediately" after death.

Please answer, after answering we can quit the topic of ghost and move back to the essence of this thread.

@jman
1: Jesus made it clear that he is not a spirit.
2: the mark was in his hand and ribs
3: in revelation the marks was still there.
4: if you say Jesus materialize, it means he deceived the disciples
5: before he died he walked on water raise the dead turn water to whine so why can he disappear and appear?
6: When Philip teleport, did he need to die for it to happen? Or God transport him in some way.
7: what do you understand by resurrection?
8: spiritual body is glorified body.
etc

haibe:

@itsfact you can help ravgach in answering this since you both believe in ghosts and contradictorily believe that the dead goes to either heaven or hell "immediately" after death.

Please answer, after answering we can quit the topic of ghost and move back to the essence of this thread.

read all my post. You will understand me. You said spirit don't exist but you also say spirit goes back to God. Then you say the spirit is not what i think it is. The inner man is refer to the spirit.
when humans die they go to God and animals go to the ground.

i am not arguing much here. But i just want you to know the disciples believe spirit exist

Itsfacts:
read all my post. You will understand me. You said spirit don't exist but you also say spirit goes back to God. Then you say the spirit is not what i think it is. The inner man is refer to the spirit.
when humans die they go to God and animals go to the ground.

i am not arguing much here. But i just want you to know the disciples believe spirit exist

Mr man show me where i said spirits don't exist, is it that you don't read or what?

I said spirit beings exist like angels..

The spirit in man can't exist as a separate entity from its body and so doesn't go to any hell after death.

Then i said ghosts do not exist.

Itsfacts:

i am not arguing much here. But i just want you to know the disciples believe spirit exist

They believe spirit beings like angels exist(Hebrew 1:5-7), they also believe the spirit in man.

They "thought" ghosts existed but no longer did they talk about it after that event.