Goshen360:

Death witnesses rather

Are you sure you agreed to the above as it is said of Christ? How come you don't agree to such as it is said of Melchizedek?

King James Bible
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. Hebrews 7:8

he died and resurrected

Did I read you said he DIED? How can one resurrect if he doesn't die first and how can one die if he wasn't born first? And yet, you asking me this:


And yet, you said this:
But He had a birth record. The Talmud confirmed this.

I never said Christ didnt die, he died. But i was just kidding with you, can you show us his birth record.? that was a joke bro. I am a witness that Christ died and resurrected. We are witnesses, do you have any record? Na wa oo, i am also a witness that Christ was born of Joseph.

Goshen360:

Because I don't jump from scripture to scripture quoting aimlessly in a religious manner. Let's us reason together now because I can perceive you know scripture very well and I have your time today, at least.

Question:

Is Melchizedek a man or not?

And please, don't waste my time. Just go straight to the answer to my question and let's go on from there.

I dont want to go round circles over and over again. Melchizedec is a woman

Goshen360:

Because I don't jump from scripture to scripture quoting aimlessly in a religious manner. Let's us reason together now because I can perceive you know scripture very well and I have your time today, at least.

Question:

Is Melchizedek a man or not?

And please, don't waste my time. Just go straight to the answer to my question and let's go on from there.

I dont want to go round circles over and over again. Melchizedec is a woman

guess you aint familiar with this verse. You cant understand scriptures reading it like a story book.

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" (Isaiah 28:10).

MEILYN: I never said Christ didnt die, he died. But i was just kidding with you, can you show us his birth record.? that was a joke bro. I am a witness that Christ died and resurrected. We are witnesses, do you have any record? Na wa oo, i am also a witness that Christ was born of Joseph.

MEILYN,

King James Bible
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Matthew 2:1

Please, answer my question and I'm not messing with you here,

Is Melchizedek a man or not?

Goshen360:

MEILYN,

King James Bible
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Matthew 2:1

Please, answer my question and I'm not messing with you here,

Is Melchizedek a man or not?

is that the record?. I dont wanna go on with this conversation.

To you Melchizedec is not Christ fine. But to me he is Christ and i strongly believe he is without any doubt. Now can we end this discussion and move on with our lives?.

MEILYN: is that the record?. I dont wanna go on with this conversation.

To you Melchizedec is not Christ fine. But to me he is Christ and i strongly believe he is without any doubt. Now can we end this discussion and move on with our lives?.

I knew you will mess up when put in the hot seat. You can continue because you know the question I will ask thereafter. Okay, another record,

King James Bible
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Matthew 1:1

That's another record line, will you please answer my question - Is Melchizedek a man or not? Be man enough to answer my question and I will ask just one more question and I'm done with your thread.

Goshen360:

I knew you will mess up when put in the hot seat. You can continue because you know the question I will ask thereafter. Okay, another record,

King James Bible
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Matthew 1:1

That's another record line, will you please answer my question - Is Melchizedek a man or not? Be man enough to answer my question and I will ask just one more question and I'm done with your thread.

Bro, mark my words, i wont answer this question of yours

MEILYN: "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem." (Ecclesiastes 1:1).<< the book was written by Solomon, he had much wisdom you know, so he understood these things.

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity." (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

"What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?" (Ecclesiastes 1:3).<< Remember this verse is talking about MAN, Human being, take note.

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Ecclesiastes 1:4).<< the earth stays but one generation to another keeps coming, still talking about man.

"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose." (Ecclesiastes 1:5).<< this verse explains the above verse. The sun rises and disappears but the sun still comes back to the place where it arose.[reincarnation]

"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits." (Ecclesiastes 1:6).<< this is another example, the wind goes south and north continually but it returns again according to his circuits.[reincarnation]

"All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." (Ecclesiastes 1:7).<< Another example again, all the rivers run into the sea, to the place where it comes and it returns again. [reincarnation]

"All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing." (Ecclesiastes 1:8 ).

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9).<< Now remember this chapter is talking about man? So what is the thing that isnt new? What is the thing which hath been that will still be?

Let the bible tell us, here is a precept from the same book. Lets know the thing Solomon was talking about.

"That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he contend with him that is mightier than he." (Ecclesiastes 6:10).<< now you see? That which hath been is named already, and it is man. Which means the man which hath been , it is that which shall be, and what the man did is the same thing the man shall do and there is no new man under the sun.

Lets continue.

"Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us." (Ecclesiastes 1:10).<< is there anyman whereof it maybe said, see, this is new? The man hath been already of old time, which was before us.

"There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Ecclesiastes 1:11).<< the reincarnated man shall not remember what he did in his past life and who he was. No remembrance of things. Reincarnation.

What was Christ? An high priest, what was Melchizedec? High priest. They did same things. What is the job of a high priest?.

Dear Father, Holy Jesus.. we pray you open the eyes of those who see yet do not understand.
False doctrines will come and go please protect us from those who speak and yet do not understand their own words, they take the scriptures and try and raise new and notably false meaning from the word of God, their only accomplishment is to mislead those who are not yet weaned from milk

Amen

MEILYN: Bro, mark my words, i wont answer this question of yours

Okay, it's on record that I asked you a question and you never answered and even promised not to answer. We will meet again. Enjoy! Bye for now!

MEILYN: Yea, nice question, very nice. So what you are saying is, because christians dont believe in the reincarnation, that makes that chapter void?

Secondly, i want to give you a verse.

"But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." (Colossians 3:25). Was Christ still alive when this statement was made? See something you dont know is, there is a huge difference between forgiving and forgetting. God will forgive you but you will still pay for your sins. Simple.

I want to give you another verse.

"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." (Revelation 14:13).<< their works do follow them to where bro? Their works do follow them through out their life lived.

Their works follow them to the awakening when Christ comes again to judge the living and the dead
There is resurrection but no reincarnation

naijafresh:


Dear Father, Holy Jesus.. we pray you open the eyes of those who see yet do not understand.
False doctrines will come and go please protect us from those who speak and yet do not understand their own words, they take the scriptures and try and raise new and notably false meaning from the word of God, their only accomplishment is to mislead those who are not yet weaned from milk

Amen

the best thing you can do, is explain that chapter to us.

naijafresh:

Their works follow them to the awakening when Christ comes again to judge the living and the dead
There is resurrection but no reincarnation

Ok now. Thats what you think? No p

Goshen360:

Okay, it's on record that I asked you a question and you never answered and even promised not to answer. We will meet again. Enjoy! Bye for now!

Yes bro. Bye Bye.

such a promising thread. i cant believe you guys killed it

birdman: such a promising thread. i cant believe you guys killed it

Lol. Right.

That is A BIG FAT LIE.

1) Melchizedek was a physical being (human), Ruling over a physical city (Salem-later called Jerusalem) and a physical high priest. Gen 14:18-20. Jesus previous existence was in Heaven,he did not dwell on earth twice-that would have required two Virgins don't you think, not to mention redundant since it achieved no purpose.

2)The prophecy@ Ps 110:4," The Lord hath sworn and will not repent, thou art a Priest for ever after the ORDER of Melchizedek". and Its Fulfillment @ Heb 6:20. The word "ORDER" is compared to "Manner", "Like" in other Bible translation. Jesus is not but like Melchizedek who holds two key position (both a KING and High Priest).

3)It seems all this arguement springs from misunderstanding Heb 7:1-28. Well let see:

Heb 6:6- Mechizedek did not trace his generology from Abraham but Jesus can be traced from Abraham- Heb 7:13,14

Heb 7:11- "ANOTHER priest to arise....." Proving they are not the same, Heb 7:15," SIMILITUDE of....there ariseth ANOTHER priest." Heb 7:17 crowns it all.

The rest of the scriptures is in harmony with this fact.

RikoduoSennin: That is A BIG FAT LIE.

1) Melchizedek was a physical being (human), Ruling over a physical city (Salem-later called Jerusalem) and a physical high priest. Gen 14:18-20. Jesus previous existence was in Heaven,he did not dwell on earth twice-that would have required two Virgins don't you think, not to mention redundant since it achieved no purpose.

2)The prophecy@ Ps 110:4," The Lord hath sworn and will not repent, thou art a Priest for ever after the ORDER of Melchizedek". and Its Fulfillment @ Heb 6:20. The word "ORDER" is compared to "Manner", "Like" in other Bible translation. Jesus is not but like Melchizedek who holds two key position (both a KING and High Priest).

3)It seems all this arguement springs from misunderstanding Heb 7:1-28. Well let see:

Heb 6:6- Mechizedek did not trace his generology from Abraham but Jesus can be traced from Abraham- Heb 7:13,14

Heb 7:11- "ANOTHER priest to arise....." Proving they are not the same, Heb 7:15," SIMILITUDE of....there ariseth ANOTHER priest." Heb 7:17 crowns it all.

The rest of the scriptures is in harmony with this fact.

Pointless. What facts are you talking about?

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually

This verse suggests Melchizedek was no ordinary human. If he has no end of life, or beginning, what is he then. I would not be surprised if an exegesis of this text shows that the original translators have muddied the waters with their opinions here - "made like unto" seems very suspicious. The Darby version, which I find to be often right in spirit puts it as "but assimilated to the Son of God". Doesn't make it clearer, I know.

@Goshen, I think you are concentrating on the wrong details here. Priest and person are not mutually exclusive. And I dont knwow what being a "man" or not buys us here.

I have my theories (uh-uhm revelations ) on this, but I think its irresponsible to present it without a solid enough word backing.

birdman:

This verse suggests Melchizedek was no ordinary human. If he has no end of life, or beginning, what is he then. I would not be surprised if an exegesis of this text shows that the original translators have muddied the waters with their opinions here - "made like unto" seems very suspicious. The Darby version, which I find to be often right in spirit puts it as "but assimilated to the Son of God". Doesn't make it clearer, I know.

@Goshen, I think you are concentrating on the wrong details here. Priest and person are not mutually exclusive. And I dont knwow what being a "man" or not buys us here.

I have my theories (uh-uhm revelations ) on this, but I think its irresponsible to present it without a solid enough word backing.

Welcome brother. We can walk through it. There's nothing hard in the mysteries, with patience and kindness, we can unveil the truth. The OP doesn't want to listen to others so I left him with his thread, Oh well.

If he had answered my question, we can then find meanings to the verse you quoted, it's as simple as that. That's the way I have come to learn the scripture - by questioning the context and verses within the context. Maybe if you can answer my question, I might be patient to walk with you and we will both understand what the verse you quoted means.

And the question was,

King James Bible
Now consider how great this man was, . . .

According to the above ^ verse, was Melchizedek a man or not?

Goshen360:

Welcome brother. We can walk through it. There's nothing hard in the mysteries, with patience and kindness, we can unveil the truth. The OP doesn't want to listen to others so I left him with his thread, Oh well.

If he had answered my question, we can then find meanings to the verse you quoted, it's as simple as that. That's the way I have come to learn the scripture - by questioning the context and verses within the context. Maybe if you can answer my question, I might be patient to walk with you and we will both understand what the verse you quoted means.

And the question was,

King James Bible
Now consider how great this man was, . . .

According to the above ^ verse, was Melchizedek a man or not?

The Bible uses an individual name to mask a whole multitude of people.

Daniel, Job and Noah are not individual men, They are just names used to call the Elect. They are depicted as individual men but in actuality, they are a number of individuals that have set themselves apart unto God. They are code names for Righteous Men.
[b]
Ezekiel 14:13-18
Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
[/b]
If Lot is not a single individual, it stands to reason that Abraham is also not a single individual (Gen 12:5), and it stands to reason, also, that Melchizedek is not a single individual too.

It stands to reason that any tracing of genealogy or ancestry or any relationships whatsoever, of singular men from Abraham is actually not referring to singular men.

By logical deduction, Adam, Isaac, Jacob, Esau, David, Solomon, etc etc, all the men mentioned in the Bible as having descended or who trace their ancestry from Abraham are not singular men but a multitude of God-fearing people. The Elect.

A. Any man traced from or related with Abraham (or Lot or Noah) in any way is not a single individual!
B. A above renders the stories of these men as story purely allegorical!
C. B above opens an even deeper dimension of understanding to the Bible!

We must note that as important as King David is to Israel, till date, the Jewish people have never been able to locate the actual site of his palace. There is also an ongoing debate on the authenticity of an historical Jesus

In Luke 3:34, The ancestry of Jesus Christ was traced from Abraham.
Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

'Christ' is a title.

Revelations 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

These is (are) the Christ(s) the world i expecting.

Goshen360:

Welcome brother. We can walk through it. There's nothing hard in the mysteries, with patience and kindness, we can unveil the truth. The OP doesn't want to listen to others so I left him with his thread, Oh well.

If he had answered my question, we can then find meanings to the verse you quoted, it's as simple as that. That's the way I have come to learn the scripture - by questioning the context and verses within the context. Maybe if you can answer my question, I might be patient to walk with you and we will both understand what the verse you quoted means.

And the question was,

King James Bible
Now consider how great this man was, . . .

According to the above ^ verse, was Melchizedek a man or not?

Sure he is a man. But a man without end or beginning. Obviously not a man like you or I. So, what would be your point of stressing the manhood here? Thanks for being patient

birdman:

Sure he is a man. But a man without end or beginning. Obviously not a man like you or I. So, what would be your point of stressing the manhood here? Thanks for being patient

I don't get his fixation on Man,Angels are also called Men in the OT. Let's see how he could wriggle out of this one..

King James Bible Genesis 18:2
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Genesis 19:1
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Mr President:

The Bible uses an individual name to mask a whole multitude of people.

Daniel, Job and Noah are not individual men, They are just names used to call the Elect. They are depicted as individual men but in actuality, they are a number of individuals that have set themselves apart unto God. They are code names for Righteous Men.
[b]
Ezekiel 14:13-18
Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
[/b]
If Lot is not a single individual, it stands to reason that Abraham is also not a single individual (Gen 12:5), and it stands to reason, also, that Melchizedek is not a single individual too.

It stands to reason that any tracing of genealogy or ancestry or any relationships whatsoever, of singular men from Abraham is actually not referring to singular men.

By logical deduction, Adam, Isaac, Jacob, Esau, David, Solomon, etc etc, all the men mentioned in the Bible as having descended or who trace their ancestry from Abraham are not singular men but a multitude of God-fearing people. The Elect.

A. Any man traced from or related with Abraham (or Lot or Noah) in any way is not a single individual!
B. A above renders the stories of these men as story purely allegorical!
C. B above opens an even deeper dimension of understanding to the Bible!

We must note that as important as King David is to Israel, till date, the Jewish people have never been able to locate the actual site of his palace. There is also an ongoing debate on the authenticity of an historical Jesus

In Luke 3:34, The ancestry of Jesus Christ was traced from Abraham.
Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

'Christ' is a title.

Revelations 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

These is (are) the Christ(s) the world i expecting.

If it is what you wrote up there, then that is the only way Christ is not Melchizedec but apart from that. He is Melchizedec

birdman:

Sure he is a man. But a man without end or beginning. Obviously not a man like you or I. So, what would be your point of stressing the manhood here? Thanks for being patient

1000likes

birdman:
Sure he is a man.

Good, let those who can reason come along. If he is a man, how is he a man? Fall from heaven? Born of a woman? Just came into existence? How?

birdman:
But a man without end or beginning.

What man on earth is without beginning and ending of life? Scripture says ALL men (including the man Christ) is born of a woman except only Eve that was made from man, Adam.

New Living Translation
For although the first woman came from man, every other man was born from a woman, and everything comes from God.

New American Standard Bible
For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
For as woman was made from man, even so man is also born of woman; and all [whether male or female go forth] from God [as their Author].

If Christ in his man nature had to be born of a woman, who is Melchizedek as a man not to be born of a woman?

birdman:
Obviously not a man like you or I.

Not a man like you and me? Please tell me, what kind of man he was? Angelic man like Bidam insinuated?

birdman:
So, what would be your point of stressing the manhood here? Thanks for being patient

We will get to my point soon. It takes patience.

Bidam: I don't get his fixation on Man,Angels are also called Men in the OT. Let's see how he could wriggle out of this one..

King James Bible Genesis 18:2
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Genesis 19:1
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

I have always known you that you too sabi scriptures and na so you dey always twist and go off track. Ever learning but no knowledge of truth. So Melchizedek is also an Angel that appeared in form of man? Where angels appeared as men, scripture says so, did you read Melchi as angel appearing as man or MADE LIKE the Son of God?

Goshen360:

I have always known you that you too sabi scriptures and na so you dey always twist and go off track. Ever learning but no knowledge of truth. So Melchizedek is also an Angel that appeared in form of man? Where angels appeared as men, scripture says so, did you read Melchi as angel appearing as man or MADE LIKE the Son of God?

Having no Father, Mother, beginning or ending of days clearly shows that he wasn't of this earth....which was why he was said to be "made like unto a Son of God"!

doubleDx:

Having no Father, Mother, beginning or ending of days clearly shows that he wasn't of this earth....which was why he was said to be "made like unto a Son of God"!

made like unto Christ.

doubleDx:

Having no Father, Mother, beginning or ending of days clearly shows that he wasn't of this earth....which was why he was said to be "made like unto a Son of God"!

where is he from? planet Mars? if you say he is an angel, then you are saying there are currently in existence two high priests (Christ & Melchizedek). Bible says there is only one high priest and his name is Jesus. Melchizedek can only be priest forever if he is Christ, but scripture did not at any time say Melchizedek was Jesus.

birdman:
Sure he is a man. But a man without end or beginning. Obviously not a man like you or I. So, what would be your point of stressing the manhood here?

a man without a beginning? How is that possible? even Jesus as man had a beginning.

MEILYN:
To you Melchizedec is not Christ fine. But to me he is Christ and i strongly believe he is without any doubt.......

.....the bible shows melchizedek as resembling Jesus but you don't read bible saying Melchizedek is Christ. So is your belief based on what you read or what you think? or maybe it's based on some revelation; God told you in a dream.

Even the Hebrews 7 chapter we all love to quote suggests Melchizedek is not Christ.....

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.

To say Melchizedek is Christ is to say Christ been priest even before Abraham. what type of priesthood was that? if Christ was already a priest before Abraham why was there still need for the levitical priesthood? and the bible indicates Christ only became our mediator when he offered himself (as sacrifice) once for all. Zechariah spoke of a priest to come.....but Melchi was already king-priest in Abraham's time.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (NIV)
12 Tell him this is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord. 13 It is he who will build the temple of the Lord, and he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And he will be a priest on his throne. And there will be harmony between the two.

Bidam:
I don't get his fixation on Man,Angels are also called Men in the OT. Let's see how he could wriggle out of this one..

King James Bible Genesis 18:2
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Genesis 19:1
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

....you don't know anything. Abraham and Lot recognized/knew the 'men' were not really 'men'. what was Abbie's reaction on sighting the men?........"he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground".....and how did Lot react? same manner...."he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground"

...and what was Abbie's reaction the time he met Melchizedek?........Abram gave him a tenth of everything (a.k.a.10% of war booty)

You don't know anything