GodMode: finofaya

You should read this:

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I
make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Hope this answers your question...

Read and study the bible or other holy books and u'll notice god and satan are just imaginations of humans.

Its a start

Fitz22: God is not a man so stop using Logic, He is the Almighty God, He is everything but u don't need logic to know if God is good or Bad. U can't understand who God is until u re born of d spirit and you understand D Trinity. This topic is not 4 u OP. Go and start from D root.

Is the topic for you?

Going by your standards, only very few people understand God. Apparently, God does not value being understood very much.

And if you did not understand God at the time you were being born of the spirit, what exactly was it you had in mind as the person to whom you were giving your life?

It is not wise to go about giving your life to ill understood higher powers. There are demons afoot. You could very well belong to one who forbids you from inquiring into his nature in order to protect his identity.

NDprudent: @ OP, d facT that ure still breathing after typing dat shows how good He is

I don't think God is anything like you. You presume to know God, I seek to understand him better, and you think I'm the one that he will strike down?

There are many people who after a period of doubt and heresy came to believe in God. They have gone on to become very good christians, muslims and such. Should they have been struck down the moment they asked the first question of God? I don't see why they should have, since asking questions will either strengthen or weaken your belief. It is not a one way track to apostacy. God knows this, but you don't and you expect God to take the same action that you, from a position of ignorance, will take.

How well do you know this God?

victorix: there are things in this life that cant be explained....... When you meet God, you can ask him everything, why is this so, why is that so??

What if you see such an explanation in this life?

¤

Diamondpen: @op,

I think you should clearly define what you mean by good or evil because what is good for Mr A might be evil and unfortunate incidence for Mr B. I will give you an example now.

(1) Mr banker is a good loving husband, father and prays to God every morning
(2) Mr mechanics is also a family man praying for daily bread
(3) Mr panel beater is equally hoping to share from God grace
(4) Mr Doctor has spent almost 9 years of his life studying his acts and equally wants to be provided for.
(5) Mr Policeman also has family to take care of, he prays to God for mega bread

An accident occurred and got Mr Banker badly injured and his car damaged. To Mr Banker this is evil
To Mr Mechanics, Mr Panel beater, Mr Doctor, and Mr Police God has done it again.

You can see that what is evil to one is equally good to four and what is good to one can be evil to another four or more.
Meanwhile God is God for all, he must provide sustenance for all.

Lol. Nice try.

Is the goodness of God equally relative? By good, I mean what you mean when you say "God is good".

wisdom1759: I pray your logic don't drive you crazy

Thanks mate

dorox:
Your problem is with the way you appear to define good and evil, which I think is a bit different in context from the bible usage.
In bible's account of creation in Genesis chapter 1, the word good appeared seven times, and each time the contextual meaning was of something fit for purpose. The light was not too hot; the day and night interval was not too long; and the distribution was just good. Gen1:3
The land mass could have been made bigger or smaller, but God saw to it that it was just good. Gen1:9
Next, God saw to it that the plants , the sun and moon, animals and last of all man that he created was good, or fit for purpose.
Good as used in the bible is not relative to something else, it means to be fit for purpose, and God's goodness is absolute, His will is total and His purpose is certain. Any will in opposition to His will is evil and any purpose not in line with his is not good because it is God that sets the standard of good and evil within which we are to work.
So God and indeed us to some extent can tell if an action or creation is fit for the purpose it was made for without having to be evil at the same time.

For the sake of the majority of God's creation who do not use the bible, we cannot define good and evil based on the bible.

Let's say goodness always means being fit for a purpose. What then is the purpose that God is fit for?

And if as you say, the bible definition of good is different from every other definition, would you go as far as to say that God has no role in those other definitions of good? One such definition is benevolence.

calaharry:
God is good because He gives you air to breath even if you refused to worship Him in spirit and in truth. He does not discriminate despite many unbelievers defiance to acknowledge God. He still allows you to give birth whether you are Christian or follow Islam or Hindu etc. But only the wise finds God in seeking Him.

The picture you paint is not one of a good person.

Is there anything intrinsically good about worship?

And are unbelievers not condemned to hell anyway? God is therefore not good?

CharlieMaria:
Ezekiel 18:3 I do not wish the death of a sinner says the Lord. Do you just do literal translation of the scriptures? I worship God not god. And you think that by referring to him as 'ur God' he is not your God and creator too? You've got another think coming. Your life is just like a breadth friend.

everybody must die. Death is not evil...infact lemme stop trying to think like a Christian and state the real fact here...

There simply is no such thing as evil in reality, it Is all in our heads, so we take one thing as evil and the other as "moral holiness"
Back some 300yrs ago in Calabar, twins were evil now they are not

I say ur god because anything u read in the Bible is the law of ur god
When ur god said you Must kill witches, I expect Christians to be a killing army against all witches of the world..

The same God said you should nt kill but he has instructed to kill witches...in other words KILLING is not the sin, rather KILLING WHAT GOD DIDN'T TELL YOU TO KILL

finofaya:

For the sake of the majority of God's creation who do not use the bible, we cannot define good and evil based on the bible.

Let's say goodness always means being fit for a purpose. What then is the purpose that God is fit for?

And if as you say, the bible definition of good is different from every other definition, would you go as far as to say that God has no role in those other definitions of good? One such definition is benevolence.

My initial response was to challenge your assertion that one cannot know how to be good in the absence of evil, and I think I was able to make that point by showing that you can build a good bridge without first having to kill people in a bad bridge.
So if it is possible to do good on the basis objective alone, the premise upon which your argument stands is faulty.

Basically, good is when we meet standard set by God and evil is failing to meet the standards

[quote author=finofaya]

Is the topic for you?

Going by your standards, only very few people understand God. Apparently, God does not value being understood very much.

And if you did not understand God at the time you were being born of the spirit, what exactly was it you had in mind as the person to whom you were giving your life?


I don't want to waste my time so I won't reply. It is well with u, Pele.

dorox:
My initial response was to challenge your assertion that one cannot know how to be good in the absence of evil, and I think I was able to make that point by showing that you can build a good bridge without first having to kill people in a bad bridge.
So if it is possible to do good on the basis objective alone, the premise upon which your argument stands is faulty.

I wasn't discussing knowledge, didn't mention it.

But even at that, can you know how to be good in the absence of evil? You know without 'evil', you cannot mean anything by 'good'.

Note that I'm using 'good' as the opposite of 'evil', before you come and start telling me about fitness for purpose. In that sense, can a bridge be evil? No, because it is meaningless to speak of evil bridges.

A bridge is just a bridge. Not evil, not good. If I am to understand God by the analogy given, then he is also neither good nor evil.

macof:

everybody must die. Death is not evil...infact lemme stop trying to think like a Christian and state the real fact here...

There simply is no such thing as evil in reality, it Is all in our heads, so we take one thing as evil and the other as "moral holiness"
Back some 300yrs ago in Calabar, twins were evil now they are not

I say ur god because anything u read in the Bible is the law of ur god
When ur god said you Must kill witches, I expect Christians to be a killing army against all witches of the world..

The same God said you should nt kill but he has instructed to kill witches...in other words KILLING is not the sin, rather KILLING WHAT GOD DIDN'T TELL YOU TO KILL

Even reason tells you that you are wrong. Words of St Thomas Aquinas is what I will leave you with. "To him who have faith no explanation is necessary, to him who has no faith no explanation is possible." I rest my case.

Fitz22: I don't want to waste my time so I won't reply. It is well with u, Pele.

Okay, I understand. Cheers

dorox: Basically, good is when we meet standard set by God and evil is failing to meet the standards

That's nice. But if God finds himself existing as a good God, he cannot turn around to determine what is or is not good.

macof:

everybody must die. Death is not evil...infact lemme stop trying to think like a Christian and state the real fact here...

There simply is no such thing as evil in reality, it Is all in our heads, so we take one thing as evil and the other as "moral holiness"
Back some 300yrs ago in Calabar, twins were evil now they are not

I say ur god because anything u read in the Bible is the law of ur god
When ur god said you Must kill witches, I expect Christians to be a killing army against all witches of the world..

The same God said you should nt kill but he has instructed to kill witches...in other words KILLING is not the sin, rather KILLING WHAT GOD DIDN'T TELL YOU TO KILL

Nice one. Especially the last paragraph.

finofaya:

God is any one of the two?

No! God created all things for his pleasure! The devil too...He is here to refine you in the furnace of affliction! Once he is done doing his job, he will be rewarded with total destruction and will cease to exist! That is when righteousness will rule forever....God gave you free will because he wants you to make a choice; to either LOVE or HATE him...which is why you are not like a robot

If you choose to love GOD, you would be tried and if you pass, you would be rewarded with greatness in happiness and peace of mind. However, if you choose to hate him, you will be rewarded with with your master's (the devil) reward which is total destruction....Life is a matter of choice

Isaiah 48:10 KJV

Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

James 1:12 KJV

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Psalms 11:5-6 KJV

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

finofaya:

I wasn't discussing knowledge, didn't mention it.

But even at that, can you know how to be good in the absence of evil? You know without 'evil', you cannot mean anything by 'good'.

Note that I'm using 'good' as the opposite of 'evil', before you come and start telling me about fitness for purpose. In that sense, can a bridge be evil? No, because it is meaningless to speak of evil bridges.
9
A bridge is just a bridge. Not evil, not good. If I am to understand God by the analogy given, then he is also neither good nor evil.

So how would you describe our politicians and contractors that build substandard roads and bridges that contributes to accidents and economic hardship of the people? Good, or evil? If i get you right, your positions is that it is just a bridge, so it doesn't matter.

finofaya:

That's nice. But if God finds himself existing as a good God, he cannot turn around to determine what is or is not good.

You are yet to show why one cannot dertermine good from bad based on meeting a standard. In fact, good and bad would have no meaning if there is no standard to be met.

dorox:
You are yet to show why one cannot dertermine good from bad based on meeting a standard. In fact, good and bad would have no meaning if there is no standard to be met.

You didn't seem to understand me. What I mean is this; the goodness of God is not of his making so he cannot be the final authority on what is or is not good.

dorox:
So how would you describe our politicians and contractors that build substandard roads and bridges that contributes to accidents and economic hardship of the people? Good, or evil? If i get you right, your positions is that it is just a bridge, so it doesn't matter.

What the politicians and contractors do is abhorrent but it is meaningless to speak of evil bridges. You would have to locate the blame elsewhere, possibly on the politicians and contractors.

finofaya:

What the politicians and contractors do is abhorrent but it is meaningless to speak of evil bridges. You would have to locate the blame elsewhere, possibly on the politicians and contractors.

So you are in agreement that the politician is evil for building a bridge that can potentially take the lives of others. Would you not also agree that all the politician and the contractor needed to do in order not to be evil was to adhere to building standards?
If your answer is yes, can you now see that good and evil is a measure of how well a standard is met? So contrary to your initial claim, it is possible for everyone to be called good even if no one is bad.

dorox:
So you are in agreement that the politician is evil for building a bridge that can potentially take the lives of others. Would you not also agree that all the politician and the contractor needed to do in order not to be evil was to adhere to building standards?
If your answer is yes, can you now see that good and evil is a measure of how well a standard is met? So contrary to your initial claim, it is possible for everyone to be called good even if no one is bad.

You're still not getting it.

This your standard, imagine its a scale from 0 to 1. 0 represents good and 1 represents evil. If either half of this scale suddenly ceases to exist, this scale would no longer be able to measure good and evil anymore.

Now, imagine God before any other thing was created, when he was the only thing in existence. Evil is said not to have existed at this point. Good however existed. What scale was used to measure and arrive at the conclusion that God was good? It certainly can't be a scale that has values for evil, since there was no such thing as evil at that point. And if nothing is evil, what is good?

Only if good and evil existed objectively, uncreated by God, could God's goodness have been measured. Just as there are objectively good and bad bridges and we measure any bridge according to this objective standard. In such a case, good and evil are no more in God's control than they are in yours.

finofaya:

You're still not getting it.

This your standard, imagine its a scale from 0 to 1. 0 represents good and 1 represents evil. If either half of this scale suddenly ceases to exist, this scale would no longer be able to measure good and evil anymore.

Now, imagine God before any other thing was created, when he was the only thing in existence. Evil is said not to have existed at this point. Good however existed. What scale was used to measure and arrive at the conclusion that God was good? It certainly can't be a scale that has values for evil, since there was no such thing as evil at that point. And if nothing is evil, what is good?

Only if good and evil existed objectively, uncreated by God, could God's goodness have been measured. Just as there are objectively good and bad bridges and we measure any bridge according to this objective standard. In such a case, good and evil are no more in God's control than they are in yours.

You are so fixated on this scaling idea of good and evil that you fail to see that good and evil is only a measure of how our actions measure up to some standard. Good and evil does not exist objectively in isolation, they can only exist with respect to a standard, of which God is the originator standards.

dorox:
You are so fixated on this scaling idea of good and evil that you fail to see that good and evil is only a measure of how our actions measure up to some standard. Good and evil does not exist objectively in isolation, they can only exist with respect to a standard, of which God is the originator standards.

Okay. I would have loved to know what determines the goodness of God, but never mind.

finofaya:

Okay. I would have loved to know what determines the goodness of God, but never mind.

I would have gladly told you what determines the goodness of God, but I see your mind is already shut. Anyway, my main reason for joining this thread was to refute your claim that there cannot be good without evil; the basis upon which the rest of your argument stood.

finofaya:

The picture you paint is not one of a good person.

Is there anything intrinsically good about worship?

And are unbelievers not condemned to hell anyway? God is therefore not good?

Unbelievers or believers were all made by a Supreme being,God. And unbelievers are given a lifetime to discover their source and know your purpose of existence. If you fail to realize this purpose then you are of no good to your Maker,which is why your are condemned to hell. Even as humans anything that is not useful to you condemn it and burn or throw it away because it is of no good . But it does not translate that you are not good. This is how things work in creation. So God is excellently and exceedingly Goooooooood. Only the enlightened minds know this universal truth.

alexleo:

A good analogy here too.

The concept of good is about the acts of living being that possess faculties of reasoning .They are mandated to value the existence of its own kind by coexisting in peace and tolerance with laid down rules of justice to preserve man kind from generation to generation. If the world was not guided by those laws of good and evil you macof would not have been here today to evoke your philosophy of good and evil.

finofaya:

Okay. I would have loved to know what determines the goodness of God, but never mind.

God keeps His word both to believers and unbelievers. That determines it all.

Yahweh used to encourage men to run trains on females. Now he does all his good works through Boko Haram and ISIS.