@Infourmer,

Infourmer:

@pilgrim, you so much believe that you have all the bible ref to back you up.

Oya tell me where in the Word those it states that Christians are meant to experience sickness?

Sickness is part of the sufferings Chrsitians endure. Please consider just these one verse among MANY others:

1 Pet. 5:10  --  "But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you."

Php 1:29 -- "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake."

The word in that last verse translated as "suffer" is defined this way by Strong's Concordance:

         "Apparently a primary verb (the third form used only in certain tenses for it);
          to experience a sensation or impression (usually painful):
          feel, passion, suffer, vex"

You requested a verse that clearly states that Christians are meant to experience "sickness" - and here are just two that shows that Christians indeed may experience sickness as part of their suffering. It does not mean that God no longer heals or that He deliberately wants His children sick. But the Bible is clear that Christians pass through various kinds of "trials" and "sufferings" - including sickness. This was confirmed in the experiences of the apostle Paul and his fellowlabourers - and you still haven't been able to discuss their experiences clearly, other than making assertions about their being immature at the time they suffered such - which is not what is taught in God's WORD.

@Infourmer,

Infourmer:

Do you knwo what they believed?
They might be on the same side as you to believe they are meant to suffer sickness as part of their prize to pay for being a Christian.

Rather than try to be cheeky, please refrain from such and address the issues. I've offered you verses clearly for my persuasions; and I would have expected that you deal with the concerns raised and not resort to such desperate measures as you are now doing.

Please see my reply just above.

Cheers.

You know what,the word "suffer" in all those passages up there has nothing to do with sickness. I think I need more bible reference because I've still got loads that states as a believer, Christ has redeemed us from sickness.

And for your info,i really didnt read anything you posted apart from the bible reference and they spoke nothing to what you believe.

No worries - please deal with the two references I've offered you, thank you.

@Infourmer,

Don't you see how you're trying to dribble this simple request? Let me repeat Backslider's question again:

Backslider:

@infourmer. .

Tell me where in the bible that we are not supposed to be sick? Bible ref please

In all your references, which on of them actually says that Christians are NOT SUPPOSED to be sick?

My Brother Infourmer

for the Foolish did he come to save us from sin of foolishness for this cause I am a fool. However O wise man please let us dwell on the scripture that is given for correction so that the foolish man may be made wise.

What is false is Heresy let not Imagine what is not in scripture for we know the consequences.

In all my references it states that sound health belongs to us Christians

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as[b] thy soul prospereth[/b].
When a soul recieves salvation,it prospers only. Why should it be that when the soul prospers,the health of a man can't prosper?

psalm 42:11
For I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.
God himself dwells in us,by the holy spirit. and He's our health,Romans 8:11 even proves it. What again do you need?
"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."


Proverbs 3:8
It(The Word) shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
If the Word can't give you sound health,what can?

Proverbs 4:22
For they are life unto those that[b] find [/b] them, and health to all their flesh.
Health to all their flesh,does that not prove that when you find the word concerning health,you have health?

Lol. . . Infourmer,

Infourmer:

psalm 42:11
For I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

King David who penned the Psalm above even yet said in verse 6 of that same chapter: "O my God, my soul is cast down within me". And if you want to know that the same David also experienced sickness, turn your Bible to the following texts:

      * Psalm 38:3
      "There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger;
       neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin."

      * Psalm 38:7
      "For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh."

You know what? You're just cherry-picking verses where ever you find the words "health", "healing", etc - and you're not really addressing the core issues of this thread. The point is that Christians are no super-human beings -- they also experience pain, suffering, sickness, tiredness, etc like every other person in flesh and bones. Some may enjoy divine health by God's sovereignty; but some others do not experience good health in some time in their lives - especially on account of what they suffer for Christ's sake.

Infourmer:

You know what,the word "suffer" in all those passages up there has nothing to do with sickness. I think I need more bible reference because I've still got loads that states as a believer, Christ has redeemed us from sickness.

Sir Please enlighten me so that I know the truth

Infourmer:

And for your info,i really didn't read anything you posted apart from the bible reference and they spoke nothing to what you believe.

Please did you read my quote on Job? I will post here again

Job 1

1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

2And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.

3His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

@pilgrim

In interpreting scripture you have to look at the context at which the doctrine is drawn out. You may not need to quote other parts of the bible.

The answer is in the passage. look at Job Chapter one and read very well.

why did david suffered sickness?


* Psalm 38:3
      "There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger;
       neither is there any rest in my bones[b] because of my sin[/b]."

      * Psalm 38:7
      "For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh."


what did Christ redeem us from,was it not from our sins? why should we then who are the redeemed suffer sickness?


your verses,dont prove a thing.

Backslider:

@pilgrim

In interpreting scripture you have to look at the context at which the doctrine is drawn out. You may not need to quote other parts of the bible.

The answer is in the passage. look at Job Chapter one and read very well.

I have tried to offer the very same thing to our dear Infourmer and advised that he carefully examine the contexts of the verses he quotes. But would he listen? May God help us all.

@Infourmer,

Lol. . . I deliberately took you to those Psalms, because I wanted to bring you back to the same question you ducked:

Infourmer:

what did Christ redeem us from,was it not from our sins? why should we then who are the redeemed suffer sickness?

Did I not ask you if all sicknesses are tied to sin? What was your answer?

Now let me offer another one: was Paul redeemed from his sins? Were his fellowlabourers redeemed from their sins? WHY then did they yet experience sickness?

Infourmer:

your verses,don't prove a thing.

They're not my verses - they were got straight out of the Bible, thank you.

That is still what you are driving at><Oya tell me why did they experience sickness?

@Infourmer,

The basic question has been: "Do Pastors Fall Sick"? Although we've spent time looking at other issues which might have helped solved the issue; but I think you have admitted in your answers that indeed Pastors fall sick. The problem is that you really don't want to see the point, and that's why you're making assertions that you haven't been able to soundly defend. Wetin happen?

Infourmer:

That is still what you are driving at><Oya tell me why did they experience sickness?

I asked you simple questions: please address them - then I would repeat the answers I already have offered as to what possibly might have occured.

Why should you conclude on what am still arguing about.Why should you decide what you know not concerning me, I see no reason why a pastor should fall sick,they are meant to heal the sick. What do they teach then,that all members should feel free falling sick?

thats not what Christ came to redeem,he came so that we may have life and have it abundantly.

If christians fall sick,what is then the supernatural difference with non Christians that  fall sick?


check this verse and think what it means

Psalm 119:40
Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.

Psalm 119:93
I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


The Word states here we are quickened with Christ,do you now think Jesus too now fall sick often in heaven?

One thing I want to point out straight for you is that

Paul fell sick,just because he was yet to know he wasnt suppose to.But you'll never accept.

Infourmer:

Why should you conclude on what am still arguing about.Why should you decide what you know not concerning me, I see no reason why a pastor should fall sick,they are meant to heal the sick. What do they teach then,that all members should feel free falling sick?

thats not what Christ came to redeem,he came so that we may have life and have it abundantly.

If christians fall sick,what is then the supernatural difference with non Christians that fall sick?


check this verse and think what it means

Psalm 119:40
Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.

I wish you could turn to me Infourmer and Leave Pilgrim1 so that we can finish this.

If it is because of Sickness only that Christ came then we are the most Miserable of Peoples in the World.


The bible you quoted says quicken Me in thy righteousness. In other words make me mature in your righteousness.

Again your problem is that you fail to believe the Word rather you chose to follow the experience of Paul and not of Christ. Its like you have chose paul to be your saviour and not Christ.

You ought to follow Christs example and not pauls.

@backslider

You see why I don't want to argue with you?

why should you think the word quicken is mature?
So God also matures the dead body when its stated in

Romans 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

backslider,sit.

Dont you know in other words the word "quickeneth or quickens" mean to give LIFE?


Psalm 119:40
Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me(Give me life) in thy righteousness.

Psalm 119:93
I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me(given me life).

Paul fell sick because he was under great persecution and he was in great suffering. If you read about Paul's life you will see that Paul was so afflicted that He a times did not want the brethren to see him because it Made them Cry.

Paul was so battered that His appearance is no where these modern preachers look like. Paul was disfigured and I tell you if you were punished by the romans you would be worse of in appearance.


Paul Suffered Greatly for the Gospel and this doctrine coming from the pit hell is to deter men to think that Christianity is simple as bread and butter. If you are a true man of God you will suffer greatly e.g your Voice will fall you and this will make you have more faith in God than your Voice. That was why Paul said he was Given a Thorn in the Flesh.


Selah

Well if you believe Paul suffered greatly remember again when he said

Romans 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Paul suffered because of those he was preaching the Word to then,they hated him for Christs sake.
He witnessed suffering from mens hand and not from sickness as often as you see the word suffer.

My Brother Infourmer

There is the Generic use of the Word Quicken. The word can Change in use at any time. Quicken might mean to Awaken as in the verse you quoted.

It might Mean to Hurry
It might Mean to Move in to a state.

If you know Bible Semantics you will know what I am talking about.

The truth is that Apostle Paul is not My Saviour and all the life of Paul pointed to Jesus, This is how truly we know he was filled with the Holy Ghost .

Thank God You know.

Some people say that he suffered because "he did not know what he Knew then"

Some may say because "he sinned"

Thank God our Understanding is returning to us.

Yes I quite understand what you mean but at the same time you need to know that when the Word states that God quickens us by His spirit,its a life time deed. So why should anyone God hath quickeneth fall sick.

Remember that paul and his fellowlabourers knew more as they advance in Christ,they learn everyday.

The life of paul pointed to Jesus Christ,yes I know but remember he didnt get the whole revelation about Christ in a day.He advanced.

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE

Was TIMOTHY not sick? and was told by PAUL to take a little wine?

Paul Had infirmities

Infourmer:

Again your problem is that you fail to believe the Word rather you chose to follow the experience of Paul and not of Christ. Its like you have chose paul to be your saviour and not Christ.

You ought to follow Christs example and not pauls.

Thank you. I'm not surpised you'd come back to that. In other words, Paul actually did not walk with Christ, abi? Na small-small una dey reveal una sef.

Backslider:

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE

Hahaha. . . oh Backslider, easy with this guy O! He won't deal with issues - and you're frying his goose!

THIS MEANS THAT LAZARUS DID NOT NEED TO DIE AGAIN! WHEN JESUS RAISED HIM UP FROM THE DEAD?

BUT WE KNOW THAT LAZARUS DIED LATER.

WHEN JESUS WAS ASKED IF THE MAN SINNED OR IT WAS BECAUSE OF SIN THAT HE WAS BLIND WHAT WAS JESUS ANSWER?

Backslider:

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE

Was TIMOTHY not sick? and was told by PAUL to take a little wine?

Paul Had infirmities

How many did you know of?

pilgrim.1:

Thank you. I'm not surpised you'd come back to that. In other words, Paul actually did not walk with Christ, abi? Na small-small una dey reveal una sef.

what are you talking about? That I said I chose to follow Christ,those that mean I said Paul wasnt following Crist?
Dont jump to conclusions,thats exactly what your problem is,you knew paul had infirmities but you never chose to know why?

Infourmer:

thats not what Christ came to redeem,he came so that we may have life and have it abundantly.

If christians fall sick,what is then the supernatural difference with non Christians that  fall sick?

Lol. . . Paul no doubt would have known the message we read in John 10:10. But this is interesting - "If christians fall sick" - which again makes the case you're affirming that "Christians don't fall sick", abi? Dear sir, deal with the experience of Paul, Timothy, and Epaphroditus! Were they pagans when they experienced sickness?

I quite understand that what you believe is that everyone is meant to fall sick.


Is tis then a lie,if you believe it for yourself and not what paul experience,what will your conclusion be

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


what will your conclusion be,without thinking about pauls experience?


But If you chose to choose Pauls experience to the Word,that says God quickens my body by his spirit. I rest my case.