God bless you Van for sharing with us that link.

Rhoda rose,

i do not have the time to find out from whom you got this quotaion:

Quote
Remember, when a preacher tells you that he needs your money to get the Gospel out he is saying that the Holy Spirit is subject to money and couldn’t do it without money.  The Holy Spirit doesn’t need money.  God can get his will done without money.  He doesn’t need the money of the poor to get the gospel out.  Don’t let these tithing preachers steal your money only to build a bigger church and more fancy clothing to preach in.

But this is the thinking of spiritual babes who have not yet discovered their reason for being as christians. They are selfish and do not see beyond themselves and their stomachs.

Through the prosperity of God's people, His message goes around the world. The mature christains have discovered that they are partners with him with their bodies, their lives as well as their finances in taking the gospel around the world.

It was the partners in the church that made it possible for you and i to hear and recieve the gospel. Bibles were sent, hospitals were biult, schools were built through the efforts of these partners who sent these missionaries to us.

Zechariah 1:17
Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

God prospers his people so they can do the work. A poor church cannot carry out the command of Jesus: to take his message around the world.. to save lost souls and make disciples of them.

The Lord gives the Word, it is left to us to publish it.

Psalm 68:11
The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

You do not sound like someone who is involved in this God's number one passion of saving the world through the gospel. Because if you were, you will know what it entails.

In the ministry i belong, we send millions of books  and tapes free around the world and we have outstanding testimonies from around the world. Millions are saved, healed and delivered.
It takes mega box and not change to do this.

We have an innercity mission, reaching out to the poor, homeless and destitute... Offering them accomodation, food shelter and clothing. We own several television stations around the world through which we are filling this earth with the knowledge of God's will. We are not selfish and that is why God can trust us with more prosperity.

Ecclesiastes 9:14-15 
There was once a small city with only a few people in it. And a powerful king came against it, surrounded it and built huge siegeworks against it.
Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.

Ecclesiastes 10:19
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

If the world can use money to publicise unimaginable evil, and immorality around the world causing men's hearts to fail them for fear, how much more will money in the hands of righteous people do much good; sending the message of Jesus around the world, thereby causing much grace to abound, leading to the salvation of many.

The poor man does not have disciples, his voice is not heard. Money amplifies our message.
The poor man's gospel is not heard and for that reason, we refuse to be a poor church!

Donnie,

Joh 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

I said:

The Holy Spirit doesn’t need money. God can get his will done without money

Donnie Said:

You do not sound like someone who is involved in this God's number one passion of saving the world ...

We can never "save the world" no matter how much money we have or spend in doing so...

Saving is left for the Creator to draw and Jesus to be their Savior...

I speak the Word to those around me and it doesn't cost a penny...

We need to give Bibles and that is the extent of our "getting the Gospel out" It is up to the person to read and the Holy Spirit will touch their hearts with the Truth and the Creator will draw them to Him and show them Jesus, their Way to the Father.

Sometimes, less said is better then more said...let the Creator do His work in their hearts

RhodaRose

Well, I wonder what would have happened if those who brought the message to us through lands and seas waited like you said for God to bring his word to pass without acting. we would have still been in the dark.

If they did not lay down their lives and resources to see that the gosepl got to us, i wonder where you will get the bible you are talking about to preach from.

You must understand that God has given us the responsibility of the salvation of mankind.

donnie,

you are still defending all these fakes of yours on tithing stealing by stYle!

MICAH

5 Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him.
6 Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.
7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.


8 ¶ But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.
9 Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity.
10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.
11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

@Hnd holder
is that so?

Hnd-holder, why bring up a text randomly to fit into ur arguement?

Those of us that pay tithes aren't complaining. It's those of you that don't pay that are complaining. How sane is that?

Goodguy, why bring up a text randomly to fit into your argument?

Those of us that don't pay tithe aren't complaining. It's those of you that pay that are complaining. How sane is that?

Mister, don't twist my words. What I'm saying is this:

Those of us that pay tithes aren't complaining about whether the pastor is using us to gain riches or not (as so many of you tithe-opposers claim). It is those of you that don't even pay at all that are complaining that pastors are eating our money. How sane is that?

Sane! How do you anticipate and appraise the effect of the topic "tithe"? is it not stealing by method? EFCC should call somebody like you for questioning. Read your bible very well

This is the way I pay my own TITHE.

Deu 14:22[b] Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. [/b]

Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.


Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; [or] if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:


Deu 14:25[b] Then shalt thou turn [it] into money, and bind up the money in thine hand[/b], and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:


Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,


Deu 14:27 And the Levite that [is] within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.


Deu 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay [it] up within thy gates:


Deu 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which [are] within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Hnd-holder:

Sane! How do you anticipate and appraise the effect of the topic "tithe"? is it not stealing by method? EFCC should call somebody like you for questioning. Read your bible very well

I should be called for questioning for giving my own money to GOD? How does it even bite you in the first place? Is it your money we're giving to pastors? Why is it paining you so much? Afterall, those of us paying this money are not even complaining at all.

you should be charged for corruption  because you have failed to follow the standard rule. you are indirectly offering bribe. eh . I pity you if Ribadu hear about you paying tithe and invading tax of the land, not paying nepas bill etc


in Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; [or] if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:


Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn [it] into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

Hnd-holder:

you should be charged for corruption because you have failed to follow the standard rule. you are indirectly offering bribe. eh . I pity you if Ribadu hear about you paying tithe and invading tax of the land, not paying nepas bill etc

Man, u make me laugh. Since when did paying tithes become bribery? And who am I bribing by the way? And for what reason will I be bribing anyone also?

Because you are looking for miracle and you are bribing the pastor who encourage you to pay your tithe to him. tithe was for the olds not for today. I think i have answered you

Mister, pls go take a nap. Where have you ever heard of miracles being bought? I don't pay tithes because I want a miracle. I pay tithes because God commanded that I should. If I have 100naira and I pay 10naira as tithe, what will that do for the pastor? How can I use 10naira to bribe my pastor for a miracle? Abeg, this is a public forum. Think b4 you post.

How will man give money to God? Abominations ! God. far be It from His glory that He should have a Nigerian Naira or Dollars whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and God is sufficient he is the owner of everything.

When we offer thanks to God, he receives it. Does that mean God eats them (if they are edible)?? Same thing applies to tithes. Of course, no one expects God to spend any worldly currency. He created the whole world including the things that are in it.
The tithes are meant for those representing him on earth here. They are meant for the pastors and the church workers and it is our duty as members of the church to pay them which is the same thing as giving God. Personally, I have never come across any pastor who forces church members to pay him tithes.

Well, all the same, I really don't blame you because there are so many fake pastors these days who are just setting up churches for the purpose of money-making. Maybe those are the ones you see that makes you conclude that pastors are collecting "bribes".

Hnd-holder:

How will man give money to God? Abominations ! God. far be It from His glory that He should have a Nigerian Naira or Dollars whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and God is sufficient he is the owner of everything.

HND,

You again. Why will you not let God's people love God the way He has taught them to? Is this not funny ...today you are questioning the authority of God and His Word as contained in the bible and tommorow you are quoting from the same scripture and calling the one you despise 'your glorious God'? That's your special strategy hun?. Appear, like one of them, then you can easily devour ...and support that which is of the flesh against that which is of the Spirit.

How sad... It is evident that the natural man will never percieve the things of the Spirit for they are foolishness to him. The people whom you call thieves believe the words of that book with their lives. They not only honour Him with their lips, but their hearts are with Him...even to the death.

James 3:11 
Does a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

"Why will you not let God's people love God "


Are you among the so called?

then stop this bus conductor aproach of your. Learn not to pay tithe. Is not met for Nigerian.

Mister, I don't know how it affects you if we pay tithes. Afterall, we aren't using your money.

"Well, all the same, I really don't blame you because there are so many fake pastors these days who are just setting up churches for the purpose of money-making. Maybe those are the ones you see that makes you conclude that pastors are collecting "bribes". "
If what you are doing is good , you need not be afraid! Why this kind of approach to money making then? You have no points paying those fakes if you are the genuine ones based on biblical references.

Did I tell you I'm afraid of anything? What gives you the impression that I pay fake pastors?

Why bother yourself with someone who dosnt believe in the first place. Tithing is not the root of the problem. He dosnt believe.

"The doctrine of tithing contradicts the most important aspects of the New Covenant and the believer's new nature in Christ. "

By their fruit donnie , you look like impostor you are far from being a  Christian

From those that has not the little they had you are ready to take it from them inform of titthe.

Let me speak with the goodguy, Once the foundation is not set right the rest is fake.

I still don't see any reason why you should be against other people paying tithes.

HND,
Do you think you can also get the divine nature by quoting scripture out of context? It is those that believe that He gives Power to become sons of God You cannot comprehend that life intellectually. It is beyond the senses. It is better experienced.

Do you think what we profess is mere religion? It is the life of the supernatural my friend. You cannot get it by quoting scripture.

I have not forgotten all the abominable words you have spoken on this site. Tell me. Are you not a Grail messenger? Why do you pose as a christian then...and firm believer in Jesus? That is not a sincere at all. I knew you were not a believer from the first day i spoke with you. I told you that, did i not?

Is that not what Jesus said," they come to you in sheep clothing, but they are ravenous wolves".

This leads me to the question of strict adherence to Christian doctrines based on literal interpretation of Bible.
1)Strong emphasis on Bible inerrancy. Every single word is literally true.
2)Strong hostility to critical study of the Bible.
3)Those not sharing same religious viewpoint are not "true Christians"
4)Clinging to the belief of "faith alone" (Calvin and Luther).

For Bible only christians, the only things that are really seen as "sin" are
-- Matters of sex.
-- Not following the religious teaching teachings.
-- Questioning authority.

In this regard, they are a lot more like the Pharisees than they are like Christ. The Pharisees taught that their beliefs were the truth because they were literal and directly from the Bible and therefore cannot be questioned.

Who was Christ?
1)A cultural and social revolutionary who disregarded the conventions of polite society.
2)Broke the religious laws regularly.
3)Associated with the "wrong crowd.
4)Challenged the emptiness and superficiality of societies traditions and beliefs.
5)Christ was crucified, at least partly, for being a modernist and an ethical relativist.
6)If Christ came to live among us now, these people would have him crucified again, not because they hate Christ, but because they would not recognize him.

What the Bible teaches though is that giving in a necessary and vital part in being a christian, and that most likely we should be giving a bit more than we actually do. Giving from the heart is more important than just following a law.

donnie
I am not Eckeist. You mis it. I am a practicing Christian. I read the bible wisely not blindly.

You must know the truth and the truth will set you free from the dogman of tithe.

goodguy:

I still don't see any reason why you should be against other people paying tithes.

Goodguy How can I be against those that wish to waste their money?  What effect has today preachings and million churches in the life of man? Not all that call me father but those that does the will of God. I must say the truth that is my concern.

Chrisd,

If i may ask, are you a christain? i want to know whether to bother responding to ur post or not.

For your information, Jesus, followed the scriptures closely ...the apostles too. We cannot afford to do less.

Heb 10
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
  "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
     but a body you prepared for me;
   6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
     you were not pleased.
   7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
     I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

David also prophetically spoke the words of the master[i]," i come to do they will oh Lord"[/i] which the writer of hebrews quoted from.

Psalm 40:7

7 Then I said, "Here I am, I have come—
      it is written about me in the scroll.


We are told to follow the written word as a light shinnng in the dark:

2 Peter 1:19  
We have also a more sure word of prophecy(the written word); whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

The Pharisees you talked about, did not know the Word. They may have known the letter but did not know the Spirit of the word.

Jesus addressing them said,"you err, because you do not know the scriptures...for they testify of me"