HND,

You are a grail messenger ...not ECKist

donnie:

. Are you not a Grail messenger? Why do you pose as a Christian then...and firm believer in Jesus? That is not a sincere at all. I knew you were not a believer from the first day i spoke with you. I told you that, did i not?  

Before editing your mail you said I belong to Eck, Now grail . There is nothing like Gail messanger. Grail adherent that is the correct way. Yes agreed they are Christian because they follow Christ teaching. You have not call me Lucifer or what else.  It changes nothing

Even call me anything it can not change my stand on blind believes that are not real. Your Christianity is Just out of HABIT. Why do you refuse to call me Muslim. I read wide and I have the knowledge. think of more names  and call me more. The time of tithe is over, It good to give cheerfully for the work of God than calling "Egunje" tithe

God also said that after 7 years, all people should release people from debt too.

donnie
Cover your face. You could not differentiate letters of Paul from GOSPEL. Taken literary meanings... no wonder you wait for others to pay you tithe. Shallow knowledge.

Hnd-holder:

Goodguy How can I be against those that wish to waste their money? What effect has today preachings and million churches in the life of man? Not all that call me father but those that does the will of God. I must say the truth that is my concern.

I have chosen to waste my money. I still don't know how that affects you.

Hnd-holder:

donnie
Cover your face. You could not differentiate letters of Paul from GOSPEL. Taken literary meanings... no wonder you wait for others to pay you tithe. Shallow knowledge.

This is actually pretty interesting and the source of many problems. Exactly what things should we take literally and what things should we examine in context?

Thou shall not kill - we all take that literally
Paying tithes - I say we should look at the context
Homosexuality - many take literally - i say look at the context
slavery - we all say look at the context

Is there some way we could develop a methodology that would allow people to (on their own) examine the bible and successfully, consistently, draw the same conclusions as everyone else?

I mean, some people say, if you're led by the holy spirit, then you'll know what such and such mean. . . well. . . this assumes that the person making the statement is led by the holy spirit and not spouting off bs.

I want to approach this scientifically (btw science is not anti religion per se) - in a way that everyone can agree is systematic and correct.

For example:

1) if the action that is being commanded against doing would cause physical, emotional, or mental harm to someone else involved - the command should be taken literally
2) if the action does not do these things - we should examine the context

thou shall not kill clearly falls into #1

to throw extreme examples of #2 - homosexuality and idolatry. Both fit into #2, so how can we further distinguish between the two? Perhaps we need to define a better rule. . or a corollary. .

So, this is pretty much the way I'd like to approach things in the bible, especially ones which currently are being interpreted in many different ways. . .

Maybe a third rule could be applied. .

3) If enforcing a command would cause people to exhibit unchristian characteristics - hatred for example, then the command has probably been taken out of context.

This would then mean that #2 should not be applied to homosexuality, but still allow for its application to idolatry. .

Anyone interested?

goodguy:

I have chosen to waste my money. I still don't know how that affects you.

Goodluck, It means TITHING is  wasting of money .QED. Here I rest my case.

According to you - in your own words - tithing is a waste of money.

allonym:

This is actually pretty interesting and the source of many problems. Exactly what things should we take literally and what things should we examine in context?


Paying tithes - I say we should look at the context

goodguy:

According to you - in your own words - tithing is a waste of money.

RhodaRose (f)
Michigan USA
Posts: 128
Offline

  Re: To Tithe or Not to Tithe?
« #232 on: November 23, 2005, 12:12 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes! Yes! Yes!  Pay those tithes 

De 14:22-29
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. (not week by week) OR MONTHLY

eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there ...   

I AM TO EAT MY TITHE MY SELF THEN PRAISE THE LORD FOR DOING THAT

And if the WAY be too long AND not able to carry it;
Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto ]the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after..., for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:


Yes you waste your money this is the context of it. Pastors must wait like levites I hope to take pastors to Mr Bigs

"The tithe was basically on animal and agricultural products, and was paid in kind (i.e., the product itself).
If one did not wish to pay his tithe in agricultural products, and decided to give money as a substitute, he was penalized and had to add a fifth part of its estimated value to the amount he paid (Lev. 27:31). Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money.
The main purpose of the tithe was to support the Levitical priesthood. The Levites were responsible to minister to the people, and were prohibited from owning land, which obviously limited the ways in which they could earn income. God’s plan was that their support came from those to whom they ministered, much like the direction of Scripture for the Church today (1 Cor. 9:1ff; Gal. 6:6ff, etc.).
The tithe also provided welfare for widows, orphans, etc."
Not any pastor to swallow

Should a Christian today tithe? One is free to give 10% if he chooses, but we are not commanded to give any particular percentage or amount. Sad to say that many Christians, once misled and often emotionally coerced into tithing, stopped giving altogether when they learned the tithe is not required. 2 Corinthians 9:6 and 7 make it clear that the more generously we “sow” with the right attitude, the more abundantly we will reap.

You may say, “Well, what about Malachi 3:6-10? That says people who do not tithe are ‘robbing God.’” Those verses have been used innumerable times to prod Christians into giving, but wait a moment—TO WHOM is Malachi written? Well, in verse 9 of chapter 3 it says “the whole nation” is under a curse. What nation? The USA? No, the book of Malachi is specifically addressed to the nation of Israel, and more specifically to the priests (see 1:6,10-13; 2:1,7 and who were badly mistreating God’s people. To use verses from Malachi as if they are talking to Christians is at best poor scholarship and at worst dishonest
http://www.truthortradition.com

Hnd-holder.

The quote you used from me:

Yes! Yes! Yes! Pay those tithes

I hope you and others know that it was said in sarcasm and added to this:

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after... for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

I do not believe in the tithing the church now teaches

RhodaRose

What about the one written here: ??

Numbers 18:28 - "Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest."

Those information are for the Levites  check Numbers 18 :8,  and 25 its the ones they were given by istrealites from the farmers products   29.

One reason why there was no command to tithe until the Mosaic Law was that until then there was no Tabernacle (Tent of Meeting) and no Temple, no regular sacrifices commanded (the daily sacrifices alone commanded by the Law required more than 700 animals a year), and no class of Levitical priests to support. None of these would be relevant to a Christian today, even if they did exist.

I will not take part in saving for my pastor's jetski. That's for sure

Hnd-holder:

Those information are for the Levites

So it is all the scriptures you've been quoting that are meant for Nigerians abi?

I like your style, Marthin Luther proclaimed that these 66 books canonized from the rest as enough for our teaching. The scripture is to help us to grow and listen to God. God still speaks today but the recorded one in the bible blind people from his real unwritten new words.

Numbers 18:26


Listen to this passage


26 "Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD's offering.

Nehemiah 10:38
A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.


Where are the Aaron descendants in Nigeria today to accompany the Nigerian (Pastors)Levites ?

Hi!

As I have walked the Christian life for thirteen years I've realised that we are very gullible as Christians.This has caused us to accept thing because they have been done that way when we found them.This then has caused a cancer in the church where Christians become gangrenous cells in the body of Christ.

If you read the New Testament Jesus never taight about about the tithe.Paul in all his epistles never taught about the tithe.Peter and all the other writers never taught about the tithe. Now here we are as a church in Africa accepting things that were given to us and never to question them.We are tearing each tother apart on something that Jesus never said we must do.

Firstly the Old Testament is law based and the New Testamnet is Grace based.Tithing is Law and not a part of the covenant of grace.If you read the bible carefully you will realise that the tithe belongs to the Levites who are the sons of Aaron because God never gave them a portion of Canaan.Now in the church there are no Levites or sons of Aaron.Or are we saying the Pastors are the sons of Aaron.

Secondly, we are Gentiles and not Jews.As Gentiles we do not have to observe the Law because it was not meant for us.We are supposed to live like Christ so that the Jews can become jealous and return to God.However that is very far from happening because the current brand of Christianity is materialistic and not Christlike.Jesus was never bothered by how many donkeys and houses He had.On the contrary we are told to tithe in order to prosper in having cars and properties.We are told that if you do not tithe ypu are cursed,yet the bible say "Christ became a curse for us that we may become a blessing".Thus nobody has the power to curse us as Christians.God bless us all.Jesus is coming.

KZ:

If you read the New Testament Jesus never taight about about the tithe.Paul in all his epistles never taught about the tithe.Peter and all the other writers never taught about the tithe. Now here we are as a church in Africa accepting things that were given to us and never to question them.We are tearing each tother apart on something that Jesus never said we must do.Firstly the Old Testament is law based and the New Testamnet is Grace based.

Jesus, Paul and Peter never taught about the ten commandments. How come we're still following them? Afterall, the ten commandments are not "Grace based", since they were given in the Old testament.

KZ:

If you read the bible carefully you will realise that the tithe belongs to the Levites who are the sons of Aaron because God never gave them a portion of Canaan.Now in the church there are no Levites or sons of Aaron.Or are we saying the Pastors are the sons of Aaron.

If you also read the Bible carefully, you will realise that the ten commandments were given to the Isrealites who were just released from the bondage of the Egyptians. Now in church, there are no Isrealites or sons of Moses. Or are we saying that Pastors are the sons of Moses?

Matthew 22:34-40

The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.

35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

38This is the first and greatest commandment.

39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Mr Goodguy!

I am grateful to your sincere reply.What is sriking is that we are not supposed to follow the Ten Commandments in the first place.The Ten Commandments are only a part of the the law and not the Law.By Mosaic Law if a woman is found committing adultery the sentence is by stoning.If you suffer from a sexually transmitted disease the whole camp must be cleansed.Now why, as Christians, are we not following these in dealing with our current predicaments as the Church.

To qoute one part of scripture in order to make a point is sometimes dangerous. We are in the covenant of Grace.Remember Jesus say the words He speaks are Spirit and only the spiritually discerning can get them.The point about the tithe is that it was not paid but was a grain offering.This is the reason why Christ did not tithe He was a carpenter.The people required were the farmers:

Leviticus 27:30-33, "And all the TITHE of the LAND, whether of the SEED of the land, or of the FRUIT, of the tree, is the Lord’s: it is holy unto the Lord. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the TITHE of the HERD, or of the FLOCK, even of whatsoever passes under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it..."

We learn a great deal about tithing in this section of Scripture:

The tithe comes from the "land," not the air or the sea. Fishermen were not required to tithe fish.
It was the "seed" or agricultural products from the fields that was holy to God and tithable.
Products from "trees" were to be tithed. This not only included the fruit, but oils, etc.
Of "herds or flocks" it was the "tenth" that passed under the rod that was holy and dedicated to God.

Here is exposed another lie of modern clergymen. It was not the first tenth, but rather the tenth tenth that belonged to God, contrary to every minister I have ever heard, who insists that the first tenth always belongs to God. Unscriptural. Untrue. Read your bible--it’s the tenth one of a herd that belongs to God. Money was never mentioned as a tithe.Reads the whole of Malachi the problem was not with the tithe it was a spiritual problem.They brought defiled animals, it was not about the notes and coins.

I pray that God may illuminate your hearts and give you a revelation because the Church is being robbed.By the way, we are becoming like Jesus Heb 12:2 & 2 Cor 3:17-18.WHY DID JESUS NOT COLLECT THE TITHE?

KZ

Completely agree with KZ

HND,

I have no business discussing christain doctrines with you.

One who will say that there are other ways to the father apart from Jesus... is not a christain....he is still in his sins so do not decieve yourself.

Did you and your atheist friend Nfern not tag along to question the authority of the bible? I guess those are some of the results of your reading wide hun?

2 Timothy 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth


Did you not question the inspiration of the prophets of the bible?

Did you not question the existence of the Holy Spirit asking me to prove his existence. Did you not doubt his miracles. Another result of reading wide i guess.

If the christianity you say you practice allows such instability and wavering, i dare say, it is not the one established by Jesus Christ.

Now you have returned in the attire of a christain to argue and debunk truths that you know nothing about. If you like put on a white colllar, it wont change a thing...you are not a christain and you do not deserve any response as regards christrian doctrines.


This is one reason i admire Nfern (even though i feel sorry for him for the position he has chosen to stand in). He mainatains his stand without wavering. He defends his stand not cawardly jumping form here to there. i admire him for that.

James 1:6,7
... For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed
That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;


...even salvation.

Donnie and Goodguy must both be tithe collectors or they it could be that they are "eating from the altar".

Tithe advocators

is it not bizzare that out of all the mosaic law, only tithe is the one that nigerian pastors keep preaching? . What has happened to the laws on unclean animals, aliens, cities of refuge, manslughter, women and their uncleanliness,pristly tribes etc. Why is it that they are not following the other parts of the laws of moses. Y do they stress only the tithe or is it the only part that they see or is it because they are exploiting it to their own benefit . The tithes had a reason, it was not ment to enrich morden day pastors.

joftech:

Donnie and Goodguy must both be tithe collectors or they it could be that they are "eating from the altar".

You're very right

this is becoming very interesting

Mt 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mt 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mt 7:24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock

sage,  

For ur inforation, tithing did not originate from the mosaic law but. Abraham tithed ever before the law came. He did so not as one under the law but as a man of fatih, concious of his covenant with almighty God.  

We do the same because we are children of Abraham and heirs of the promises that God made to him in Christ.

My advice is that you study the word properly for yourself before you come up here to put up posts. AS for me, i do not talk carelessly about things i dont understand.

Bible says that those who are of faith are the children of Abraham and heirs of the promise.

pls donnie is it true that you said people like sage that do not tithe will not enter the promise land?