beewhyfocs:



Why did you say all those churces could make one not attend church?

Because they preach and emphasize the false doctrine of tithes thereby leading christians away from the grace of christ[Galatians 5:4] For me i have studied every thing the bible as to say about tithes and understand it very well, any church that preaches compulsary tithing is NOT of christ they are in it for the money.

MrCrackles:

Poster
Go with your heart
Bless!

Thanx bro

Krayola:

@ Kunleoshob. . . Goodluck my brotha. Wish you all the best. I gave up on churches a long time ago.

Thanx bro, i have always enjoyed your contribuitions on this forum.

@Petres
Thanx for your contribution i would be getting in touch with you soonest

The church has become a booming business for most people in Nigeria. You see them wearing designer suits, owning fleet of cars and quite recently, private jets. Jesus never saw such affluence when he was on earth.

beewhyfocs:

From your writings, its obvious you are not seeking for advice but looking for people to rubber stamp your decision or better still, join you in it. I pray that God would open your eyes of understanding in Jesus name, so you dont be the-know it-all person to whom others opinnion does not count as long it differs from yours.

Why did you say all those churces could make one not attend church?

I love the way the tone changes from one of caring advice to chiding disapproval simply because kunle doesn't agree with one.

KunleOshob:

Because they preach and emphasize the false doctrine of tithes thereby leading christians away from the grace of christ[Galatians 5:4] For me i have studied every thing the bible as to say about tithes and understand it very well, [b]any church that preaches compulsary tithing is NOT of christ they are in it for the money.[/b]

Its obvious you are having some issues with the 10% of your earnings. The fact that they paid with agricultural produces in those days does not mandate that we should pay with the same. It has to be based on your earnings which could be money or produce depending on your source of income. So bros, its not pastors' doctrine, its God's word. Believing it is an option for you, so you dont have to confuse others with your newly found doctrine!

anyway, there are enough threads on tithes. Let's not let this thread degenerate into a tithe thread.

Pastor AIO:

I love the way t[b]he tone changes from one of caring advice to chiding disapproval[/b] simply because kunle doesn't agree with one.  

Well I did not change my tone because he did not agree with me. I was just explaining a point.

@debosky

I dont agree with your view that Nigerian pastors, bishops, General Overseeers et al, should have their faces printed on promotional materials concerning Christian events. What most of them are engaging in is self-adulation. Yeah, we might not have a complete picture of what Jesus looked like but it is clear that he was semitic in build and physique. Most images of Jesus Christ that I've seen are almost the same. It could just be his hair that has different shades of colour. I don't want to start listing the names of some Christian bodies that only use the images of christ on their promotional materials. Surprisingly, these christian groups are doing well and they study the bible deeply than most pentecostal churches. True christianity is not about man, but about the risen christ

@ Poster

You don't need to tell us!  Its your personal decision.  Why announce it.  How many did you tell when you were attending what you now come back to call the institutionalised chrisitianity .  If you feel you are justified in your decision, you don't have to come public with it.    We are all running a race with the bible as our guide.  I am happy you have been shown the way to the cross.  It is now left for you to find and hold onto it.  You are not answerable to anyone on nairaland but the Almighty God.

beewhyfocs:

Tithers always claim it works for them[even though it doesn't cause tithers are in no way better off than non tithers] that just not justify a preacher twisting/manipulating the word of God. Any preach that preaches compulsary tithing is either very ignorant of the truth in the scriptures or he is deliberately mis-leading the flock to fleece them. Any body who studies half of what the bible as to say about tithes and the law would know that as a christian he has know business practicing such a doctrine. that is apart from the fact the way tithing is defined and implemented today is completely unbiblical.

Having realized that compulsary tithe preaching is not only wrong but it is wicked, manipulative and evil and that preachers only force it into christianity because of what they stand to benefit from it it got me looking at a lot of other church doctrines closely and i discovered that they were full of doctrines of men. For instance most pentecostal churches preach that as a christian you shouldn't drink but the evidence we find in the bible is completely diffferent, not only was drinking freelly allowed, Jesus christ himself was a social drinker[luke 7:33-34] The fact that a lot of lies deceit and manipulations takes place in a place that is using the name of God and is supposed to be holy is enough reasoon for me to want to flee. And these lis are not just casual lies but intituitionalized ones hence people just accept them without questioning them. You claim to be a christian, i challenge you to read the new testament from cover to cover objectively and compare with your church practise and doctrines. And lets see if you would remain the same.

I thank God for opening my eyes, i was blind before but now i can see clearly.

[b]debosky (m)
Wytch Farm
Posts: 13355

Online

Re: I Am Done With Intituitionalized Christianity, Would Stop Attending "church"
« #12 on: Yesterday at 02:00:08 PM »
The church as it stands now is imperfect, but I still feel it has the mandate of Christ at its heart.

I see one of your main hang ups is with church buildings and pastor devotion. These are issues alright, but removing yourself leaves you prone to failure - do not neglect fellowship of believers. If the church was perfect, the bible wouldn't have to talk about supporters of Paul and Apollos, or the people getting drunk, or fighting over positions as the sons of Zebedee did, or the marginalisation of some widows in church distributions.

Listen - there will be issues with the church as humans have limited understanding and personal failings. Unless the church(es) you mention are not at all aware of where they should be headed or their flaws, then there is no reason to leave them. My advice would be to maintain fellowship but refuse to be engaged in anything that is against your spirit/understanding.

Stay blessed.[/b]

gbam.

I promised to come back and give a piece of my mind on what I feel about christianity and the Nigerian church these days. I started going to church from age 4 when My dad took me and my other siblings to his white garment church somewhere in Surulere, Lagos. Perhaps I had been going to church before then, but I was not conscious of what was going on because I was too young to understand. Yeah, we attended a white garment church and I attended sunday school with my contemporaries. The book we used was- MY BOOK OF BIBLE STORIES, which was published by the Jehovah Witnesses. My church then was the Cherubim and Seraphim Church Movement [ Ayo Ni O ]. After Secondary School, I joined RCCG. I got baptized in the church and became born again [ whatever that means these days ]. While I was in the University, I had a friend who was Catholic. He introduced me to his Irish missionary friends. Today, I'm a staff writer and rersearcher for their International Magazine. I am still a member of RCCG though.  What I'm trying to say is that I have an idea of how most of the churches in Nigeria operate and their different doctrines.

Personally, I'm disappointed in the way many Pentescostal churches in Nigeria operate. There seems to be this emphasis on the outward man and not the inner man. Many of the programmes being organized have become jamborees and many attendees are not really growing in their faith. All kinds of money are collected from church members through their ministers, but there is no investment being made in the lives of the congregation. When I'm talking about investment, I'm not talking about money alone. How many schemes have been developed by Nigerian churches to add value to the lives of their members, especially the youths? It is a shame that all the cash being raised through offerings, tithes [ I believe in paying tithes and offerings ] , vows, appeals etc is used in building mind boggling edifices and not used to improve the lives of the members. The disciples of Jesus took care of themselves but that hardly happens in the modern church.

Immorality is threatening to destroy the church these days. A lot of things are going on in our churches. I'm not a saint but I have always maintained my dignity by not engaging in the debauchery that is being practised in some of our churches. I've heard of Pastors impregnating female choir members, and married women indulging in extra marital affairs in the church. Some Parish pastors cannot account for church money in their possesion, while others use the tithes collected to do business before remitting the money to the church headquarters. Poverty is also contributing to the moral degradation taking place in the Nigerian Church. This has led to many people going into ministry just to be comfortable. They're not really interested in leading people to Heaven, which is the ultimate reason for being christians.

I could go on and on, but I guess we all know the problems of the Nigerian church. What one needs is to have a revelation from God himself. Then one will be free from the grasp of the charlatans who are holding the reins today. There are a few good churches around though. Just pray that God should help you in your search for a true church. What should be noted is that human beings are naturally selfish and church founders are human beings. It is only the men of God that are truly chosen that will do the work placed in their hands without looking for material gains. Cheers.

Kunle,

 Thank God for the true spiritual background and upbringing we had as royal ambassadors for christ @ Orita-mefa baptist church. Do you remember those camp meetings?

  I share your exact concern - got the point where I really wanted to stop going to church because the world and church have so much deviated from the true teachings of Christ. Unfortunately the world has also associated the success of a pastor with wealth and buildings but not saved souls anymore. I keep wondering why our Naija pastors keep coming to the western countires to open branches when there are still millions of souls yet to be saved even in their own villages; why do pastors condemn us for making pledges to the church even when they know that we regaular send money to charities and both our needy familes. Is really not about beeing a good samaritan - or what has become of that parable?

Nevertheless I still go to church and pick out what is good for me (it is not alway glooomy) and make sure I am a worker for God. True we cannot neglect a true fellowship


God help us all.

KunleOshob:

Tithers always claim it works for them[even though it doesn't cause tithers are in no way better off than non tithers] that just not justify a preacher twisting/manipulating the word of God. Any preach that preaches compulsary tithing is either very ignorant of the truth in the scriptures or he is deliberately mis-leading the flock to fleece them. Any body who studies half of what the bible as to say about tithes and the law would know that as a christian he has know business practicing such a doctrine. that is apart from the fact the way tithing is defined and implemented today is completely unbiblical.

How do you know it doesn't work. Let people follow their understanding. You cant prove to know it all. the fact that you dont believe it should not be a point of discuss for others not to. Just do what you believe.

Having realized that compulsary tithe preaching is not only wrong but it is wicked, manipulative and evil and that preachers only force it into christianity because of what they stand to benefit from it it got me looking at a lot of other church doctrines closely and i discovered that they were full of doctrines of men. For instance most pentecostal churches preach that as a christian you shouldn't drink but the evidence we find in the bible is completely diffferent, not only was drinking freelly allowed, Jesus christ himself was a social drinker[luke 7:33-34]

[/quote]

You have just started to mention your problem with the church. Trivial matters of the kingdom, now I see.  Proverbs 31:4-6

I thank God for opening my eyes, i was blind before but now i can see clearly.

[quote]

I thank God for you too. But be sure u are seeing the right things. God bless you

i tried to figure out why this matter should be an issue to most believers but could not cling to my innocent mind-boggling. this topic is a clear picture of the addendum end time preachers, may God help us all in Jesus name, Amen. Like someone rightly said here, "we are all running a race" it simply means that the end justify the means.

Kunle, Cavalry greetings to you my brother:

I totally understand your point of view and have been thinking about the same thing for a little while now. For now, I just go there and basically have my "filter" on throughout so I can separate the truth (not much these days) from the prosperity and the other nonsense that goes on in these places.

"~lady~": You don't need a "church" to "commune" but rather to fellowship which you can do with like minded folks even in your basement as our good Lord already assured us that "where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there".

"Home fellowships" are a growing ( disturbing for the gospel pimps) are a growing phenomenon these days and nothing is wrong with them though we need to remember the old line from Animal farm (In fighting against man, we must not come to resemble them) and lay out the real Christian doctrines and practices that is missing from the "enterprise, incorporated, etc" churches. sample of one in my area:    http://homechurch.meetup.com/279/

Even unbelievers can tell a real Christian from a fake as Mahatma Gandhi was once quoted as saying " I like Jesus Christ, I don't like Christians because you Christians are so much unlike your Jesus Christ" In the last three weeks alone, I've heard "stories" that sounded more like the 150 plus miles driven on an empty tank of gas thingy, Malachi has been thrown in once, " You know we are praying to God to bless us with a bigger building" (Doesn't matter that the current one isn't filled to capacity), the list goes on and on.

Matured Christians can fellowship with one another anywhere and God will be there so don't listen to the naysayers, follow your conscience and do the right thing in Jesus name. Of the "cardinal" principles a true Christian needs, only fellowship requires the involvement of others, you can pray/commune with God alone, you can fast alone, you can love others even if they don't love you, faith is equally personal.

We will keep you in our prayers brother man and remain true to your beliefs because "those who don't stand for something will fall for anything"

Nice Thread. . . I just thought I might share the following story with you guys. . . please read slowly and meditatively ---->


RELIGION: HOW SPIRITUAL ORGANIZATIONS GROW


A Guru was so impressed by the spiritual progress of his disciple
that, judging he needed no further guidance, he left him on his own
in a little hut on the banks of a river.

Each morning after ablutions the disciple would hang his loin-cloth
out to dry. It was his only possession! One day he was dismayed to
find it torn to shreds by rats. So he had to beg for another from the
villagers. When the rats nibbled holes in this one too, he got himself
a kitten. He had no more trouble with the rats but now, in addition to
begging for his own food, he had to beg for milk as well.

"Too much trouble begging," he thought. "and too much of a burden on
the villagers. I shall keep a cow." When he got the cow, he had to
beg for fodder. "Easier to till the land around my hut," he thought.
But that proved troublesome too for it left him little time for
meditation. So he employed labourers to till the land for him. Now
overseeing the labourers became a chore, so he married a wife who would
share this task with him. Before long, of course, he was one of the
wealthiest men in the village.

Years later his Guru happened to drop by and was surprised to see a
palatial mansion where once a hut had stood. He said to one of the
servants, "Isn't this where a disciple of mine used to live?"

Before he got a reply, the disciple himself emerged. "What is the
meaning of all this, my son?" asked the Guru.

"You're not going to believe this, sir," said the man, "but there was
no other way I could keep my loin-cloth!"

I was watching TCT last night and Richard Roberts was on for almost an hour . . . the entire program was devoted to ASKING FOR SEED OFFERINGS! Nothing on sin, salvation, righteous living, Jesus Christ . . . it was all about "SOWING"!

I have often wondered . . . why dont these "christian" leaders sow seeds too and expect God to give an increase? why is that the duty of the laity only?

Oh yes . . . I found another story to share ===>


DESTRUCTION

For all his holiness, the Master seemed vaguely opposed to religion. This never ceased to puzzle the disciples who, unlike the Master, equated religion with spirituality.

“Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards. In other words, it breeds fear and greed - the two things most destructive of spirituality.”

Later he added ruefully,

“It is like tackling a flood with water; or a burning barn with fire.”

good welcome to the club.

bawomolo:

good welcome to the club.

did you read the thread?

It is good to fellowship with serious christians. But if you are in a church thats not focused on getting to the

Kingdom of Heaven maybe you should leave the place. Because thats what matters getting to Paradise and

working towards getting there. The first words Jesus spoke when he started preaching were " Repent for the

Kingdom of God is at hand", repent and stay repentant. Stay on the right way. The way is narrow and beset with

trials and tribulations. Paul said I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course. Fellowshipping is

important but in the right settings and for the right reasons. Early christians ate fellowship meals together, prayed

together. shared the spreading of the gospel. The Temple of God is not made up of one stone alone. Yes there are

a lot of fake christians.,deceivers and hypocrites. But they could be weak and mislead people so we have to help

those whom are weak and struggling on the Way. Becos we are not running for our own salvation alone but that

all spiritual Israel might be saved. Every believer needs counselling, Paul's letters are ways of counselling the

believers. Helping them emotionally in the new life they are leading so they might receive the various gifts of the

Holy Spirit and the endtime salvation.

@poster
there is sumtin i dnt get here, hw would sum1 tell me dat he/she is gonna stop goin 2 church cos they ar nt doin d will of God? Wel rmb let him witout sin cast d 1 stone.

Wuru-wuru pastors don full ground ,,,,,,,,,,,this is Naija,,,,,,

@Poster (Kunle), God bless your heart! And thanks for posting this here. Thanks a bunch!

I honestly cannot describe with words, the joy I felt and still feel now, that there are people out there who by God's grace are thinking and asking questions. From study of the scriptures, I've learnt that people like these are SUPER-SCARCE, and can only see, because God in his sovereignty and mercy chose to exempt them from the deception going on in these last days.

Kunle, the issues you've raised are very valid ones. I'll take up the tithing issue for a minute here. I'm sorry I can't do a complete write-up on the issue and raise all the points here but I'll just mention a few things and ask a few questions. Still, it’s quite a long read. So please get yourself a cup of coffee or something. 

Again, Kunle, its really interesting reading your posts about tithing, because it shows you've been doing the seemingly “forbidden”, by studying your bible and daring to follow its teachings, which by the way are so, so, so clear.

Down to the tithing issue.

Now everyone, you cannot understand this tithing issue unless first;

1. You bare your mind of all the ideas you already have about tithing so you can actually see things objectively. I know this is always hard, but is certainly possible, if you have a sincere heart and would really want to know the truth, no matter what it costs you.

2. You need to understand Christianity. I must say that most of you posting here are actually giving yourselves away, as your posts and arguments clearly show that you actually don’t even know what Christianity really is. Or let me put it this way – you do not know/understand the difference between Judaism & Christianity.

The tithing issue becomes a non-issue once you understand the difference between the old and new covenants. I also can’t go into this in detail now but will try to raise some points and questions we need to consider. It’s actually the correct way of determining what Christian doctrine is and what it is not, from the bible.

There are two questions you must ask yourself. The first question is: Is there (or are there) any examples of Christians practicing it in the New Testament? The second is: Did the apostles teach it? Now let’s apply that to tithing. It’s simple, really!

The apostles were the ones commissioned by Jesus to establish the church. One of his instructions to them was that they teach believers ALL that he had commanded them to. I guess they forgot this all important tithing issue. With the way virtually all the churches and so-called ministers of today stress this doctrine of tithing, to the point of attaching salvation to it, one wonders how come the apostles of (and even Jesus himself) “forgot” to mention it even once. That’s right. You won’t find a single line of instruction from Jesus or any of the apostles to Christians, to pay their tithes, anywhere in the bible. If you do, please let me know ASAP and I’ll publicly recant.   

In the same way, you also won’t find a single example of any Christian who paid his tithe. Check your new testament. Its not there! In the bible, not a single Christian ever paid tithe. And none of the apostles (including the Lord Jesus) gave any instructions for the payment of tithes. Don’t take my word for it. Check your scriptures! It’s not the kind of thing our pastors will like mention on the pulpit. I’m sure that by now you must be turning to Malachi chapter 3. Me too[i]. Let’s go there! [/i] 

Malachi 3:10
I’m sure by now this portion of scripture must be seriously competing with John 3:16 for the most the title of the bible’s most popular verse. But we’re not going to jump to chapter 3:8-10 like we always do. At least this once lets see what the verse 1 of chapter one looks like. It says; “The oracle of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi”.

If you understand the bible, you should know by now, that there’s a difference between the Hebrew/jew and the non-hebrew/jew (gentile). You see, the first covenant God made was with this homogenous set of people – Abraham’s descendants by Jacob, at mount Sinai. For example, the Moabites had no business keeping the law of Moses. Same applied to everybody else - the Egyptians, Amalekites, Persians, Babylonians, Romans, Nigerians etc. The covenant God made with them was simply between them (Israel) and God. No other nation was involved. The law of moses as it were, split the world in two – Israelites (the people who were in a covenant relationship with God) and non-Israelites. So this 1st covenant, of which tithing was just one of its many requirements, was between God and Israel.

New agreement
Now some bible translations rightly use the word “agreement” in place of the word “covenant”. Maybe I’ll just use that from now on instead. So Malachi in verses 8-10 of chapter 3 was in simple terms, telling the Hebrews then that they were not holding up their own end of the agreement. Simple. God had setup a system (permit me to use that word) in Israel under that first agreement, where one tribe (Levi) was dedicated to the work of priesthood/serving in God’s temple/tabernacle. So its not like God was literally eating the tithes and offerings which the people where bringing (or ought to have been bringing) in obedience to the law. It was meant for these priests whose primary work was to serve in matters pertaining to the law, the temple etc. So that was how it worked – the tenth of the income of the other 11 tribes was offered to God (along all the other offerings the law demanded) in obedience, and the priests (of the remaining 1 tribe) literally lived off it. Or you think God was talking in parables when he said there should be “meat in his house”?

So the old covenant, I repeat, of which tithing and a host of other requirements was a part of, was based on works. You keep all the requirements of the law, you’ll be blessed. You don’t, you faced the consequences. Stud the books of exodus leviticus and numbers for more on this.

But Christianity is very different. Lets see one or two reasons why and how. To start with, God had already foretold through Jeremiah that he was going to establish a new and different covenant. See Jeremiah 31:31-34 and compare with Hebrews 8. So it came to pass that the old agreement ended with the death of Jesus Christ and the new one began after he resurrected.

It’s also noteworthy that the old agreement was between God and Jacob’s descendants. The new includes people from every nation under heaven having removed the law of Moses, the “barrier”. See Ephesians 2:11-22 (Note verses 14 & 15). Notice that it says that the law has been abolished! The word “abolish” according to Dicitionary.com, means “to do away with; put an end to; annul; make void: to abolish slavery”.

There are too many scriptures for this but I’ll cite just one or two more. The book of Hebrews is a beautiful masterpiece written to explain these issues. I encourage anyone who wants to investigate these matters properly to study it, comparing it with Leviticus. Chapter 8 (of Hebrews) more specifically talks about the new covenant. In verse 13 it says the new covenant has replaced the old, which is now obsolete. Please study the scriptures more on this issue. It’s so important.

So what point have I been trying to make? That tithing, which our so-called ministers of today ruthlessly enforce, is not actually just unbiblical for a Christian or should I say a believer in Jesus Christ, to practice. And it’s not just unscriptural. Practicing tithing actually has a very serious consequence which in my opinion, makes it worse than even sins like fornication! I’ll explain this in a minute.

Pay your tithe and you go to hell!

Not too long ago one of the most (if not the most) revered so-called pastor in Nigeria (and indeed, around the world) in his sermon, said that Christians who do not pay their tithes will go to hell. Now think about that. That coming from somebody like him, I’m sure people from that time on will always make sure they pay their tithes and do so on time. Who doesn’t want to go to heaven?

But looking at the scriptures, we find it’s the opposite. In the time of the apostles, some folks who felt they were inspired started to preach and spread false versions of the gospel. This caused problems in the church as many Christians seemed to believe their lies. One of the most damaging false gospels that was being preached that point in time was that people (especially the gentiles) could not be saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone but had to keep the Law of Moses too.

This meant that these gentiles who for example, were not circumcised had to get circumcised, just like the law required. This meant that these gentiles, who never observed any of the Sabbaths, had to begin to do so. This meant that they also had to start observing the 7 Jewish feasts and all the other laws under the old covenant including payment of their tithes and various offerings.

The version that got to the Galatians was probably the one that didn’t seem very harmful. It required only,  ONLY that they get circumcised. I mean, what harm could that cause? But the apostles would have none of that. The apostle Paul wrote a letter to them to refute these false ideas. I advise everyone who wants to study these issues to also carefully study the short letter to the Galatians. Paul clearly stated in chapter 5, that Christ is of no value to anyone who took up any of the requirements of the law. Whether circumcision, tithing, Sabbath-keeping or anything else from the law. Besides, the law of Moses was not such that you could pick which one to keep and which one not to keep. If you touched one, you had to keep all the others! And he explained that this simply meant falling from God’s grace in Christ! That sounds very scary to me because no can be justified before God today, outside of Christ!

This explains why I said earlier that keeping the requirements of the law, in my own opinion, is worse than sins like fornication. It’s is simple. A Christian can fall into sin (fornication inclusive) without falling from grace. But he cannot observe even one of the requirements of the old covenant without falling from the grace of God in Christ. It’s really that simple. You pay your tithe, you go to hell! So that "man of gawd" who announced that "rev" that if you don't pay your tithe you'd go to hell, just sent every single one of the millions around the world who listen to him, straight to hell!!! Shocking. Scary. But true. Please study for yourselves.

Now I guess most of you who read this will be wondering what becomes of the “prosperity gospel” that our Christian leaders shamelessly preach today, as tithing is at the heart of the prosperity message. Well, from proper study of the scriptures, it turns out that is a very wicked scheme. The gospel of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with material prosperity. Just like the ones being peddled about in the time of the apostles, it’s just another false version of the gospel. But that’s talk for another day.

So folks, please study your bible. It’s really important. If you really do love the Lord and know how important the issues at stake are, then study your bible to find out if these things are so. But you need to deliberately choose not be sentimental about things and maintain an objective attitude as you study. Else you’ll see nothing but what you’ve been taught before.

This is another deluded OP,don't get me wrong,he's honest and deluded.
Raised some poignant issues,but I don't think he should stop going to church,take what the Bible admonishes you as a christian to go with and discard the rest which more often than not have no bearing on your spiritual groeth or salvation,period

Myself2:

This is another deluded OP

If this trash is what proceeds from your 'overflow', I shudder to think of what you 'essence' must consist of. . .

@Kunle, some very thot provoking questions you raised. . .

muyoto:

If this trash is what proceeds from your 'overflow', I shudder to think of what you 'essence' must consist of. . .

@Kunle, some very thot provoking questions you raised. . .

@Mutombo

Before you spew drivel from your gutter of a mouth,if you had objectively dissected my earlier post,you could not but agree with the delusional stuff.I mean the OP is suggesting that staying away from church is a sort of solution to the percieved short-comings in churches.

Shudder all you like,I don't give a flying fuc.k

Myself2:

@Mutombo

Before you spew drivel from your gutter of a mouth,if you had objectively dissected my earlier post,you could not but agree with the delusional stuff.I mean the OP is suggesting that staying away from church is a sort of solution to the percieved short-comings in churches.

What is delusional about staying away from a place one believes to be a fraud? If your doctor gives you viagra for your malaria will you keep going to him? escepially when u have read in the "doctor's manual" that viagra does bot cure malaria. . . .  Can you please explain this delusion?

[b]@@ KunleOshob

[/b]what u said reminded me of something God 1ce told me
>>>> 'people give glory to the building & not the God of the church'
>>>> in the end, i still believe that despite all the shenanigans Christ is building His church

still >>>> i'll stick with going to my church cuz >>>>
[list]
[li]i'm a christian[/li]
[li]i still believe there's hope for the church[/li]
[li]i stay with ma parents & can't rebel >>> u should know what i mean[/li]
[/list]

Krayola:

Can you please explain this delusion?

Krayola,krayola ,oh I remember you,well it's delusional to suggest that for every doctrinal or dogmatic disagreement,christians should stop going to church

Tithing is real brother, don't kid yourself. Forget about Malachi for a moment. If you believe in God it should be pretty easy to understand that God created everything and owns everthing. Your tithe is a way of showing you appreciate Him. It should be collected by your pastor where youy worship and don't bother yourself with what he does with it. All you know is that you have done your part and blessings are sure to follow. God is a God of principles and till the earth folds those principles must always work. Tithing started from Cane and Abel. Abraham when returning from a war paid his tithe to the king of Salem and got blessed. If you are pastoring yourself, look for a man of God you respect and pay the tithe. It is not free will offering or charity, it is an acceptance that God owns everything.

Be rest assured that if you do not tithe, you will loose that money  and more  one way or the other no matter how religious or righteous you are! Your most precious thing that shows comitment is your money. Don't let greed and shortsightedness prevent you from doing the right thing!!!

"Marlboroman",


Any Scripture/Bible reference to back up your claim or we should all trust you on that as well?