Finally the spiritual leader long awaited speech have come, and surprise! Surpise!! UK got blamed. Wtf! Uk have not interefered in their election so yet, UK got blame by the spiritual leader.

From where I stand, this is a weakness on the part of the leader. If he cannot take responsibility for his own failures, the fact that people want a change and as such demand a fresh election, but instead blame someone else for it.

I am guessing he is feeling vunerable and hence have to demand unity and single out someone to blame. I really cannot understand how people can support this regime with a straight face. Meh my two pence.

tunku:

Thank you afam, your LovePeddler of a mother would be proud of you. I just finished watching the supreme leader's speech and people still think this election wasn't rigged? Again afam, LovePeddler of a mother. 

Your are just a clueless pig. A pig with a warped sense of reasoning and very stupid conclusions based on wrong premises and gross ignorance.

Tunku and Afam. How hard is it for you guys to actually debate in simple logical debate, with basis in intelligence?

Not to sound like am talking down at you both. Afam, you claim to have superior knowledge and logic , perhaps you should show this more? And Tunku, how low do you have to sink and start involving "mums"? Come on, you guys are sucking the life out of this section.

In a debate, when things get ugly, one have to take a higher ground and be a bigger man. I wonder who will that be between you.

You can join forces and attack me, I ain't bothered. I have said my piece.


@RichyBlack, how hard is it to remove post that are off topic around here? Nah wah o.

The supreme leader is highly irresponsible and does not deserve his office

whats he has done today is to pre-empt the investigation of the guardian council that is yet to conclude its investigation

this guy was not qualified for office in the first place, it is because of his insecurities that he is unwilling to make concessions

Now the UK is to blame When would irresponsible leaders take responsibility for their misrule instead of passing the buck to anyone?

If Bush were to be in power, trust Iran to blame US for excessive sunshine in Tehran

ElRazur:

Tunku and Afam. How hard is it for you guys to actually debate in simple logical debate, with basis in intelligence?

Not to sound like am talking down at you both. Afam, you claim to have superior knowledge and logic , perhaps you should show this more? And Tunku, how low do you have to sink and start involving "mums"? Come on, you guys are sucking the life out of this section.

In a debate, when things get ugly, one have to take a higher ground and be a bigger man. I wonder who will that be between you.

You can join forces and attack me, I ain't bothered. I have said my piece.

You have no right to advice anyone on how to behave on discussions and debates because you are just like Tunku who will easily resort to insulting people when there are differences of opinions.

I have never and will never insult anyone simply for disagreeing with me and I will always respond to insults in kind when people who cannot disagree with others cannot finish a sentence without insulting another.

So, I guess it will make more sense for you to follow your advice.

Personally, over the years I have come to realize that those who resort to insults in debates are usually those who cannot support their positions based on logic, facts and common sense and as such would want to divert attention to other issues.

Stick to the issues raised and learn to respect yourself and then other people you interact with in life. You do not become more knowledgeable by insulting anyone that disagrees with you.

By the way, the right to respond to insults in kind is a fundamental one and I will always use it and on time too whenever the need arises.

I just love the end of the speech when he claims that he is a weak and frail old man willing to sacrifice his life for the revolution. "Crocodile tears" if ever I saw one. Who else love his reference to cult leader David Karesh and the Branch Dravidians in Waco. Mikeansy thanks for your advice and I would never attack you for it because it is sound advice. But That is not for me when it comes to people like Afam. Afam, you son of a LovePeddler, don't throw stones without expect one aimed at your face in return. Don't worry, your supreme leader and caveman mentality will win out in places like Iran for the time being.

lol, I am not good enough to advice anyone oh !!!!!!

Afam:

You have no right to advice anyone on how to behave on discussions and debates because you are just like Tunku who will easily resort to insulting people when there are differences of opinions.

I wasn't going to reply to you, but I needed to set the record straight. Once and for all. For the record, I have not insulted anyone around here. Fact. I have questioned the logic of people's reasoning behind their posts etc. Heck, I have even said "Bleep you" as a form of tongue in cheek. But never have I have insulted anyone as a form of insult. Asking someone "Are you stupid" is not an insult. It is merely a question. However, you seem to take an exception to comments like this.

The only reason you keep saying I insult people is because you made a post in this thread [anyone interested can check out Pages 2 and 3 or 3 and 4 of this thread] in which I questioned your logic and your post, you replied with insults and abuses. Yes, you did. It is there for all to see. So quit saying you dont insult people. In fact, you are well known around here for doing exactly that.

I have never and will never insult anyone simply for disagreeing with me and I will always respond to insults in kind when people who cannot disagree with others cannot finish a sentence without insulting another.

Quit lying. See above. Besides several people have pointed at that in this thread and elsewhere.

So, I guess it will make more sense for you to follow your advice.

Again you will take this as a form of insult, but allow me to question your logic. All am asking you to do is stick to the debate at hand. I have done so more than you ever have around here. It is like saying "Oh you can comment on football matches because you aint a proffessional footballer" I mean where is the logic?

Personally, over the years I have come to realize that those who resort to insults in debates are usually those who cannot support their positions based on logic, facts and common sense and as such would want to divert attention to other issues.

I agree with your reasoning here. However, if you do not want to look like an hypocrite , kindly go back and answer the questions I posed to you before you rained insult down on me.

Stick to the issues raised and learn to respect yourself and then other people you interact with in life. You do not become more knowledgeable by insulting anyone that disagrees with you.

Yeah Afam is talking to the man he is staring at in the mirror here.

By the way, the right to respond to insults in kind is a fundamental one and I will always use it and on time too whenever the need arises.

Again this you may see as an insult, but let me question your logic here. Do you know what "Fundamental rights" means? If you do, then you would have realise that insulting people on a forum, after been knocked out in a debate is just non-sense and childish. I mean, what ever happened to being the bigger man? Or do you not have that as part of your "Fundamental common sense"?

That is it. I have no desire to reply to you again as per this. Period.

@Topic.

The UK have announced that they would make an official complaint to the Iranian embassy here. This sort of blame can be bring about more troubles etc. I am sure there would be more and more drama to unfold in the coming days.

Anyone think Musavi [??] would stand down, or would the protest continue?

For me I don't understand why these hard-liners [ referring to the Iranian leaders and Ayahtollah here, not the wannabe on this forum ] want to cling on to power and avoid the inevitable? I mean, the under 30s with a degree or good education makes up the 70% of the entire population - a fact by the way. Don't the Mullahs think it is time to go away, or at least bow down to the wind of change?

@tunku,

What would empty words do? Ask Georgian's about U.S. support last summer. Ask the Cubans in America about U.S. support.

The outcome does not mater, but the principles that is behind your stance. It appears Obama is afraid of hurting anyone's feelings and will therefore stay netral. You either believe in freeedom and stand behind it or you don't. People are fighting for their freedom and all we can do is stand on the fence? I don't think that is good enough.

The truth is, whether we get involved or not, it will not change Ahmad's pre-disposition about the US. You might as well fight to death hanging on to your principles rather than die anyway without making a stand.

Tayo-D

I suspect Obama wants to do the following:

Maintain is popularity stream, and hence not wanting to get involved with any potentially unpopular issue for now.

He is stalling, because he is trying to offer Iran a chance, and prove that he is not Bush or at least, the America is not what the Iranian leaders think of them.

Perhaps he is just confused and trying to buy time to make proper decisions?


Whatever the case may be. I think, he would be forced to make a move he do not want to make any way. Like you rightly pointed out, his approach of friendliness would not alter the views of the Iranian hardliners.

@ElRazur,

I agree that Obama atimes leads as if he was in a popularity contest. Populism is not leadership and its high time we got some leadership.

N Korea is aiming at Hawaii and Alaska while possibly shipping some weapons one of its ship. The only response we've heard from the Administration regarding this is that the North will be making a big mistake. Egbami, how does that help our course?

Obama's policy on Iran is working

Nothing energises the hardliners and unites the Iranians more than fighting against foreign imperialist.

The reason this crack exists is because Ahmadinejad has no American President to blame for all his woes, he now has to prove his worth.
Dissident voices now have a chance to hold Ahmadinejad on his record of achievement within and not his ability to oppose others.

Now we have a case where the Iranian Regime are isolating themselves arround the world and in the eyes of even thier own people.
Ahmadinejad is getting undermined and being weakened.

So those who think Obama is doing anything wrong has to look again. Now we have dissents within the ranks of the clerics, their is even possibillity that some Generals of the Army have been arrested because they have suggested that if given an order by the Revolutionary Guard to shoot at protesters they wont.

This is how Obama operates, building concensus, soaking up attacks and punching heavilly from a defensive position. This has always been Obama's political strategy all this while and those complaining have not been watching Obama closely right from when he started.

It is early days in this fight and the Supreme Leader has only succeeded in making himself available in the boxing ring

He surely will not leave this fight without taking a beaten himself.

Someone should as the GOP guys what they have done to Putin yet.

They spoke out against Rusia in their war with Georgia and claimed we are all Georgians now, well the bombs went of in South Osettia and Abkazia and not Atlanta Georgia. What did the US do? Nada.

People need to be pragmatic

Mikeansy, you do have some valid points it seems with those last two post or so. Events coming up in the few days may give a proper validation to that -

Iran's supreme leader backs the disputed election results and issues a stern warning against further street protests.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/default.stm

ElRazur:

I wasn't going to reply to you, but I needed to set the record straight. Once and for all. For the record, I have not insulted anyone around here. Fact. I have questioned the logic of people's reasoning behind their posts etc. Heck, I have even said "Bleep you" as a form of tongue in cheek. But never have I have insulted anyone as a form of insult. Asking someone "Are you stupid" is not an insult. It is merely a question. However, you seem to take an exception to comments like this.

If you were brought up in a family where minor disagreements are settled with insults between your family members that is your own problem not mine.

You can deny that you insult people when they disagree with you but you cannot change the fact that you do.

Hypocrisy is high here but a typical hypocrite will be the first to accuse others of what they do.

While you keep denying the fact that you insult people that disagree with you I will never do that, I insult people only as a way of reply and will continue to do so.

Unfortunately, you may have been used to people tolerating your insults and as such may have wrongly assumed that your insults are not insults.

You will remain a born liar if you fail to tell yourself the truth about your attitude towards opposing views.

@Tunku,

It seems that people who have whores as mothers are usually quick to call other peoples' mothers whores. Idiots like you will remain idiots until the day you die. Say me hi to your mother and ask her if she is still in the business that mistakenly brought you into this world.

@Afam. Less bickering please. I dare you to actually make PROPER contribution to this thread at hand. You can start by answering the questions I posed at you from the very beginning. It would be nice to see your superiority that you referred to.

Number 1

ElRazur:

I wasn't going to reply to you, but I needed to set the record straight. Once and for all. For the record, I have not insulted anyone around here.

Number 2

ElRazur:

That is it. I have no desire to reply to you again as per this. Period.

Number 3

ElRazur:

@Afam. Less bickering please. I dare you to actually make PROPER contribution to this thread at hand. You can start by answering the questions I posed at you from the very beginning. It would be nice to see your superiority that you referred to.

Zero credibility and highly inconsistent.

So you have no proper contribution to make apart from bickering? Nice.

Let me try again.

Now that the supreme leader have come out to blame the UK, I wonder what is your view? Do you not think that a nation with 70% of under 30s should be wary of inciting situation like this? After all, the younger generation wants a new change that the old mullahs and ayatollahs do not want. Something have to give, or do you not agree?

I may not be up to date as you, but seeing that you support Iran through and through, can you explain to me as to how the UK have a part to play in all of these?


Read below and tell me your take on it?

Iran's supreme leader has issued a stern warning that protests against the country's disputed presidential election results must end.

In his first public remarks after days of protests, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said the outcome had to be decided at the ballot box, not on the street.

He said political leaders would be blamed for any violence.

Demonstrators calling for a new election earlier vowed to stage fresh protests on Saturday.

But the governor of Tehran province, Morteza Tamadon, has said no permission has been given for such a rally and he hoped it would not be held.

ElRazur:

I may not be up to date as you, but seeing that you support Iran through and through, can you explain to me as to how the UK have a part to play in all of these?

Support Iran through and through? You see why I basically do not like wasting time with people like you on issues because your thinking process is flawed.

So, because I have asked questions and made comments that points to not accepting every single statement coming from opposition camp and a lot of pro Western media without facts I am now a supporter of Iran through and through?

When I complain about basing argument on logic you begin to panic.

I do not believe in blanket condemnation or commendation of anything as things must not necessarily by 100% or 0% to make sense.

Quote me properly, do not make false accusations against me to support your position and then you can be sure of discussions based on issues.

Until then, bye bye.

I see that all questions remained unanswered AGAIN. My questions are still open and posed to you, but until you can muster some answers. . . . Good riddance.

This is how people self destruct due to pride.

The average Nigerian would rather go to war than accept a mistake. Real shame.

You have lied and made false allegation and yet have the guts to demand answers to questions without addressing your wrong. You must be a joker.

I think Ayatollah have failed the Iranians yet again, first of all, he backed Ahmedinajad. As if that wasn't enough he went to the pew on Friday and made a blunder blaming UK and I wonder what they have to do with this and sternly warning protesters. I wonder who he thinks he is even when he can still be removed. I honestly, think the man was of high morale but I now see he has none otherwise he won't have come openly to back a failed election. A kid born on the morning of that election knows it's a total fraud. There are no leaders anymore, people seem to always deviate from the truth just for reasons of favoritism.

I just learned Moussavi says he wants to be a martyr, that is how far he is willing to go to support his cause.

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrdRwOlmIxI&hl=en&fs=1&"[/flash]

iran is burning.

bawomolo:

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrdRwOlmIxI&hl=en&fs=1&"[/flash]

iran is burning.

oh nooooooo dude that shit is just sad. looks like she died right then and there on that video.

but hey according to richyblack, iran is a democracy.

The freedom to protest doesn't seem to be evident in that democracy.

Elections do not equate to democracy. The Iranian government system is closer to a theocracy than a democracy.

so painful to watch

Those responsible for killing civilians in Iran should be arrested, tried and convicted for their crimes.

bawomolo:

but hey according to richyblack, iran is a democracy.

The freedom to protest doesn't seem to be evident in that democracy.

Iran is a democracy, an imperfect democracy like the imperfect democracy in the US where innocent people are jailed without trial for decades and poor people are allowed to die just because they do not have health insurance.

There is no perfect democracy. Iran and America are imperfect democracies!

RichyBlacK:

Iran is a democracy, an imperfect democracy like the imperfect democracy in the US where innocent people are jailed without trial for decades and poor people are allowed to die just because they do not have health insurance.

There is no perfect democracy. Iran and America are imperfect democracies!

Drawing parralels where there are none.

In America, civilians are not shot to preserve a theocratic system of Govt. Your reference to lack of health insurance is a red herring. Compare life expectancy in Iran to America's. You can't compare the wanton murder of citizens to lack of universal health care.


PS: Innocent people jailed for decades without trial in the US?