@ nferyn

ur children are sooo sooo beautiful , i bet u are so proud

you're family is so cute. can i babysit your daughter pls?

Tom and skateboard

Tom listening to music

tom on his 'lentefeest'

Tom and his teacher on his 'lentefeest'

Aicha and friend

and another one

nice pics. aicha has a model's forehead. you're gonna have trouble with the boys. im telling ya! by the way what's lenteefest?

spoilt:

by the way what's lenteefest?

It's a secular humanist celebration marking the first steps into independence of the child. I think it's something peculiar to the Belgian situation. Belgium is in majority Catholic and the children of Catholic parents celebrate their communion and confirmation. To give the children something similar from a secular perspective, the humanist organisations ain Belgium came up with the lentefeest. It has no special significance among humanist, but it's more something that is organised to ensure that the children don't feel excluded and that they too have a big party among family members with lots of presents, just like their Catholic classmates.

Beautiful kids

nferyn:

It's a secular humanist celebration marking the first steps into independence of the child. I think it's something peculiar to the Belgian situation. Belgium is in majority Catholic and the children of Catholic parents celebrate their communion and confirmation. To give the children something similar from a secular perspective, the humanist organisations ain Belgium came up with the lentefeest. It has no special significance among humanist, but it's more something that is organised to ensure that the children don't feel excluded and that they too have a big party among family members with lots of presents, just like their Catholic classmates.

had never heard of it before this. one more thing ive learnt on seun's nairaland!
by the way are you bringing up your kids as humanists? just curious.

spoilt:

by the way are you bringing up your kids as humanists? just curious.

Depends on what you mean by bringing them up as humanists. The most important thing for me is teaching them to have an open mind and a spirit of inquiry as well as respect for other people's feelings. I believe that from these basic attitudes all the rest will naturally follow.
I have absolutely no problem with them being exposed to all kinds of world views, e.g. my wife takes them along to her church quite regularly and I think it's for the better.
To be quite honest, my wife really thinks they are going to take up her religion, but I'm nearly certain they won't. I know no people that pick up a religion if they were not indoctrinated in it and indoctrination is the one thing I'm not going to accept.

Aicha came back all painted from school today

nferyn, aicha is soooooooooo cute growing up fast too and so is tom. how time flies, you must be real proud of them cos i am.

nice.

These Kids are getting bigger by the day, it must have been over a year since I saw a picture of them. Nice Job Nferyn, you're doing a nice work on them kids.

nferyn, i have a questn for u

communion and confirmation same time??


i did my communion first (lots of cathesm classes, passed the test in which alot of catholic question were asked (actually it's what they teach in the class) and then selected for 1st holy communion) i think at a certain age of awareness.

confirmation came much later. lots of classes where you learn more about Catholic church. then passed the class and then confirmed. (that's like 15years above i think)

is this how u guys do it there? I asked because I grew up in a catholic church where my dad was a lay priest. I'd like to learn abt your country's catholic

in Nigeria, confirmation are not done to children but when they are at the age of reasoning where they can learn more about R Catholic. how abt your country,

your kids look cute

omoge:

nferyn, i have a questn for u

communion and confirmation same time??

No, that's not what I mean, I just meant to say that secular humanist have similar ceremonies. You have to understand that Belgium is in majority Catholic and that the Catholic church had historically a lot of power in Belgium (comparable to the situation in Ireland or Poland), secular humanism was histrically a counter movement that fought against the strong grip the church had on society. That's the main reason why those ceremonies mimic some of the properties of communion and confirmation

omoge:

i did my communion first (lots of cathesm classes, passed the test in which alot of catholic question were asked (actually it's what they teach in the class) and then selected for 1st holy communion) i think at a certain age of awareness.

That would be at age 6 in Belgium

omoge:

confirmation came much later. lots of classes where you learn more about Catholic church. then passed the class and then confirmed. (that's like 15years above i think)

In Belgium, that's when the children are 12 years old

omoge:

is this how u guys do it there? I asked because I grew up in a catholic church where my dad was a lay priest. I'd like to learn about your country's catholic

I think it's very similar around the world

omoge:

in Nigeria, confirmation are not done to children but when they are at the age of reasoning where they can learn more about R Catholic. how about your country,

I think the catechism is universal in the Catholic Church, so as far as rituals etc it will be more or less the same

omoge:

your kids look cute

Thanks

@nferyn,
really beautiful family you've got there; didn't know you were married to a nigerian.
very nice pics.
i also didn't know that belgium has lots of catholics - i thought most people are secular, like the rest of western europe. or is it just a nominal thing?
cheers.

@nferyn
do you and your wife ever butt heads on what the kids should be taught? does she make them pray behind your back?

by the way nferyn what's belgium's economy like? what's the main language spoken there? are they kind to immigrants? ive had it with america! maybe its time to pack up.(again! ) and keep pursuing the elusive golden fleece.

nferyn can i have a week or two with tom? I bet you he'd be a bible carrying evangelist by the time i'm through. He'd make a handsome pastor.

ricadelide:

@nferyn,
really beautiful family you've got there; didn't know you were married to a nigerian.
very nice pics.

Thanks

ricadelide:

i also didn't know that belgium has lots of catholics - i thought most people are secular, like the rest of western europe. or is it just a nominal thing?
cheers.

Lots of nominal Catholics. They only go to church on special occasions like communions, burials, etc. Anyway, most of the believers have a generally secular attitude as well. Religion is considered as something private.

spoilt:

@nferyn
do you and your wife ever butt heads on what the kids should be taught? does she make them pray behind your back?

No, not at all. She takes them to church and I don't object. Children should be exposed to as many viewpoints as possible. The only thing I don't accept is indoctrination and badmouthing of free thought, but she would never do that anyway.

spoilt:

by the way nferyn what's belgium's economy like? what's the main language spoken there? are they kind to immigrants? ive had it with america! maybe its time to pack up.(again! ) and keep pursuing the elusive golden fleece.

Belgium's economy s pretty strong, especially the northern Flemish part (without the south it would rank top of Europe in about all economic indicators). There are 2 main languages in Belgium, Dutch and French. French is mainly spoken in the southern parts and in the capital, Brussels. Dutch is spoken in the north of the country. Belgium has got a superb education system (over 50% of the Flemish budget goes to education) and an excellent health care system (lots of Brits coming over for surgery they can't get in the UK)

I wouldn't advise any blacks to immigrate just yet (unless they have secured themselves a job beforehand). Immigration is a recent phenomenon in Belgium and even though the acceptance of immigrants is increasing, many Belgians still have pretty racist attitudes. Although the racism is of a very primal nature and once you get to know the people, you'll get socially accepted, it is still a hurdle far bigger than in e.g. the UK or the US. Moreover, the main ticket to social acceptance in Flanders (due to our peculiar history) is mastering our language. Without fluency in Dutch you won't get much social and employment opportunities.

davidylan:

nferyn can i have a week or two with tom? I bet you he'd be a bible carrying evangelist by the time i'm through. He'd make a handsome pastor.

If you would come to Belgium, I wouldn't mind at all. It would be an interesting experiment. I just think you have a little too much faith in your abilities to 'convert'. I am yet to see the first person that converted to theism that wasn't immersed (indoctrinated if you will) in theism during early childhood.

I predict that in a few hundred years - if we haven't destroyed our planet and civilisation by then - we will all look at our world religions as a vestige of humanity's adolescent growing pains.

PS: actually, what you're proposing isn't that strange at all. Tom has got the uncanning ability to frame problems in such a way that it makes his point of view look very reasonable, even though it usually isn't. A quality that's very much part and parcel of a pastor's arsenal.

Nferyn is doing a great job here. He never fails to reply to a comment.

Your children are growing so well.

How old is Tom now?

I would like him to become my in-law in future!

nferyne
your pikins fine well well, they are gorgeous.

_{@micheline
is that your picture in your profile?}

NymphoQin:

nferyne
your pikins fine well well, they are gorgeous.

They are reall adorable!

NymphoQin:

_{@micheline
is that your picture in your profile?}

_Yes

nferyn:

If you would come to Belgium, I wouldn't mind at all. It would be an interesting experiment. I just think you have a little too much faith in your abilities to 'convert'. I am yet to see the first person that converted to theism that wasn't immersed (indoctrinated if you will) in theism during early childhood.

wrong! i've seen a lot of people who converted to christianity with very little or no exposure during their younger years.

nferyn:

I predict that in a few hundred years - if we haven't destroyed our planet and civilisation by then - we will all look at our world religions as a vestige of humanity's adolescent growing pains.

You think we'll last that long?

nferyn:

PS: actually, what you're proposing isn't that strange at all. Tom has got the uncanning ability to frame problems in such a way that it makes his point of view look very reasonable, even though it usually isn't. A quality that's very much part and parcel of a pastor's arsenal.

There we go! We're already have way through the indoctrination process.  Hurray to pastor Tom.

davidylan:

I am yet to see the first person that converted to theism that wasn't immersed (indoctrinated if you will) in theism during early childhood.

wrong! i've seen a lot of people who converted to christianity with very little or no exposure during their younger years.

I'm not really talking about converting to Christianity. What I'm referring to is someone that comes from an environment where he or she isn't immersed in supernatural beliefs, there is very little chance that person will become a theist. If you don't grow up with some belief in the supernatural, the God concept, whether Muslim or Christian doesn't make sense at all.
That's the reason why I don't have any problem at all with exposing my children to religion, it can only enlighten them

davidylan:

I predict that in a few hundred years - if we haven't destroyed our planet and civilisation by then - we will all look at our world religions as a vestige of humanity's adolescent growing pains. Wink Grin

You think we'll last that long?

I surely hope so

davidylan:

PS: actually, what you're proposing isn't that strange at all. Tom has got the uncanning ability to frame problems in such a way that it makes his point of view look very reasonable, even though it usually isn't. A quality that's very much part and parcel of a pastor's arsenal.

There we go! We're already have way through the indoctrination process. Hurray to pastor Tom.

What you don't know though is what he will use that ability for he might use it to become a satanic evangelist (although there's an even slimmer chance for that)

nferyn:

Lots of nominal Catholics. They only go to church on special occasions like communions, burials, etc. Anyway, most of the believers have a generally secular attitude as well. Religion is considered as something private.

ok. just like i thought; the churches must be really empty except on those 'special' church-worthy days, lol
By your second statement you mean people don't try to discuss religion publicly and convert people? or that they are into secular humanism as well?

No, not at all. She takes them to church and I don't object. Children should be exposed to as many viewpoints as possible. The only thing I don't accept is indoctrination and badmouthing of free thought, but she would never do that anyway.

wow, that's very fair of you. you must be a 'holy' atheist, LOL. I also do not subscribe to indoctrination; and a lot of it is going on these days on both sides. at least i'm aware of the indoctrination of kids in american schools.

What I'm referring to is someone that comes from an environment where he or she isn't immersed in supernatural beliefs, there is very little chance that person will become a theist. If you don't grow up with some belief in the supernatural, the God concept, whether Muslim or Christian doesn't make sense at all.

very little chance; OK. Impossible, No. I'm sure there are people with such an experience. Immersion is supernatural beliefs can go either way; lead you to GOd or lead you away from Him.
i believe that there is an internal witness in every person of something outside of this world; regardless of what environment they grew up in. the only difference is with those who grew up in an environment where they are exposed to the supernatural; they can quickly confirm their inner longings and find answers; but with the other, they can easily suppress it. but you're still left with looking for a suitable worldview to explaining those things we don't understand, and some resort to atheism.
remember; its nature + nurture = phenotype, the former is always there; the latter isn't necessarily so. and by nature, i don't mean genes; there are other things.

That's the reason why I don't have any problem at all with exposing my children to religion, it can only enlighten them

unfortunately, if what they are being exposed to is catholicsm, your goal would probably be acheived. they'd question it and get out.

unfortunately, if what they are being exposed to is catholicsm, your goal would probably be acheived. they'd question it and get out.

lmao so true my brother , its all good