ricadelide:

Lots of nominal Catholics. They only go to church on special occasions like communions, burials, etc. Anyway, most of the believers have a generally secular attitude as well. Religion is considered as something private.

ok. just like i thought; the churches must be really empty except on those 'special' church-worthy days, lol
By your second statement you mean people don't try to discuss religion publicly and convert people? or that they are into secular humanism as well?

they hardly ever discuss religion publicly and there is hardly any proselytism (except for the occasional Jehova's witness). It's only a small minority that's into secular humanism. Most people don't find religious questions all that important. many believe in 'something', but that's about it.

ricadelide:

No, not at all. She takes them to church and I don't object. Children should be exposed to as many viewpoints as possible. The only thing I don't accept is indoctrination and badmouthing of free thought, but she would never do that anyway.

wow, that's very fair of you. you must be a 'holy' atheist, LOL. I also do not subscribe to indoctrination; and a lot of it is going on these days on both sides. at least i'm aware of the indoctrination of kids in american schools.

The US is a very different place from Europe.

ricadelide:

What I'm referring to is someone that comes from an environment where he or she isn't immersed in supernatural beliefs, there is very little chance that person will become a theist. If you don't grow up with some belief in the supernatural, the God concept, whether Muslim or Christian doesn't make sense at all.

very little chance; OK. Impossible, No. I'm sure there are people with such an experience. Immersion is supernatural beliefs can go either way; lead you to GOd or lead you away from Him.

I'm not saying there aren't any cases at all. Most of those so called conversions to theism (the ones loudly proclaiming 'I used to be an atheist') actually crumble under close scrutiny.
What I find peculiar is that many of the staunchest atheists were once true believers and they live their atheism with a strong almost missionary zeal. I'm not like that at all, atheism is just the 'natural' condition for me, also because I'm very skeptical by nature. The main reason why I debate these issues here on nairaland is because many Nigerians have an extremely intolerant attitude towards atheist and for that reason many atheist stay in the closet as a matter of speech. At least some have come out here on the board, I just wonder if they would do that in real life.

ricadelide:

i believe that there is an internal witness in every person of something outside of this world; regardless of what environment they grew up in. the only difference is with those who grew up in an environment where they are exposed to the supernatural; they can quickly confirm their inner longings and find answers; but with the other, they can easily suppress it. but you're still left with looking for a suitable worldview to explaining those things we don't understand, and some resort to atheism.

That's another way of looking at it. It looks like a clever form of rationalisation to me though.

ricadelide:

remember; its nature + nurture = phenotype, the former is always there; the latter isn't necessarily so. and by nature, i don't mean genes; there are other things.

Unfortunately, the nurture part regularly takes the form of fear based indoctrination. I don't know how many times I've seen 'fear of God' being described as a virtue.

ricadelide:

That's the reason why I don't have any problem at all with exposing my children to religion, it can only enlighten them

unfortunately, if what they are being exposed to is catholicsm, your goal would probably be acheived. they'd question it and get out.

My wife takes them to a pentecostal church, so it's not Catholicism they're being exposed to. I really don't have a goal here anyway.

@nferyn

Do you think the world will be a better place if they was no religion?

I-man:

@nferyn

Do you think the world will be a better place if they was no religion?

Yes I do, but I don't feel like arguing about it now, especially not on this thread. It has gone too much off topic already

nferyn:

Yes I do, but I don't feel like arguing about it now, especially not on this thread. It has gone too much off topic already

Ok,cute pics though

nferyn:

Unfortunately, the nurture part regularly takes the form of fear based indoctrination. I don't know how many times I've seen 'fear of God' being described as a virtue.

Hm, I see what you mean.

you kids are pretty, I would like to see them in native lol. what kind of music does Tom listen to

Nferyn,

I thought the two major languages in Belgium were French and Flemish.
Is Flemish the same as Dutch or a completely separate language?

Your kidz are lovely btw.

VOR:

I thought the two major languages in Belgium were French and Flemish.
Is Flemish the same as Dutch or a completely separate language?

You're both right and wrong at the same time
We, the Flemish, share a language with the Dutch. Standard codified Dutch is based on a Bible translation (de Statenbijbel) that was written by Marnix Van Sint-Aldegonde, someone that fled Antwerp during the religious wars in the low countries for Holland.

Flemish (Dutch spoken by the Flemish) differs less from Dutch spoken in Holland than American English differs from British English, so it would be crazy to call them different languages. What is different though is the pronunciation, some grammatical constructs and choice of words.

VOR:

Your kidz are lovely between.

thx

nferyn:

You're both right and wrong at the same time
We, the Flemish, share a language with the Dutch. Standard codified Dutch is based on a Bible translation (de Statenbijbel) that was written by Marnix Van Sint-Aldegonde, someone that fled Antwerp during the religious wars in the low countries for Holland.

Flemish (Dutch spoken by the Flemish) differs less from Dutch spoken in Holland than American English differs from British English, so it would be crazy to call them different languages. What is different though is the pronunciation, some grammatical constructs and choice of words.
thx

Thanx for clearing that up.

Btw, where did you learn English?
You write it better than a lot of native
English speakers I know.

VOR:

Thanx for clearing that up.

no probs

VOR:

Btw, where did you learn English?
You write it better than a lot of native
English speakers I know.

I did learn the basics in school (secundary), but I guess I master English well enough because of my education and my exposure to the English language. And obviously lots of practice

ThiefOfHearts:

Hm, I see what you mean.

I love this quote:
Thinking must never submit itself, neither to a dogma, nor to a party, nor to a passion, nor to an interest, nor to a preconceived idea, nor to whatever it may be, if not to facts themselves, because, for it, to submit would be to cease to be. (Henri Poincaré), but it sounds far better in french:
"La pensée ne doit jamais se soumettre, ni à un dogme, ni à un parti, ni à une passion, ni à un intérêt, ni à une idée préconçue, ni à quoi que ce soit, si ce n'est aux faits eux-mêmes ; parce que, pour elle se soumettre, ce serait cesser d'exister."

ThiefOfHearts:

you kids are pretty, I would like to see them in native lol. what kind of music does Tom listen to

See them in native?
Anyway, Tom's just listening to some commercial crap. kids of his age don't really have a differentiated taste in music

native, african wear

ThiefOfHearts:

native, african wear

Next year when we're coming over. I'll make sure I take lots of pictures

I went thru the whole thread and wat can i say, nferyn i am happy for u, it shows u are proud of ur family. Tom and Aicha are very cute kids and im sure by God's grace they will grow up to be lovely adults. Your family is beautiful.

nice family u've got dere. ur children are lovely esp. Tom. ur wie's pretty too

so cute well done to you both! good man.

i m impressed....u a good person..God bless u

uzoexcel: i m impressed....u a good person..God bless u

Hw did u cum abt digging up ds old thread

Lol!!!my niggur..was surfn for info on belgium when I came across this

rill:
Hw did u cum abt digging up ds old thread

Seun: I envy Tom; he has the best of both worlds: dark skin and lovely hair!

Oga Seun,when would you get ya own? Abi,are we to believe that you already have yours?