The Ijaw people that fight with Urhobo people in Warri is different from the Ijaw people that fight with Igbos in PH. Fact!
They were seperate and even hostile to each other before all these oil brouhaha.

Dede1:

@Ibime

I am of the view you are not goofed with eastern Ijo and western Ijo too. I may inquire what you have been smoking if you are confused about Nigerian Ijo. When I referenced eastern Ijo, it meant Ijo people located in the defunct eastern region of Nigeria while western Ijo meant Ijo people located in both defunct western and mid-western regions.

Yeah, we know the distinction between Eastern and Western Ijaw. . . . but what Batubo was challenging is that you said East > West.

Forget the bad belle you have for Adaka Boro and concentrate on this portrayal of the late Zik who is accused of treachery by some igbos.

"Specifically on Igbo leadership, the Igbo culture is very clear about what makes one fit or unfit for leadership. A thief or a traitor (sabo) cannot be a leader. Being a thief or traitor is the lowest of the lowest (an abomination or nso ala) among the Igbo. In fact, it automatically makes on an outcast. Whether one likes it or not, the defining moment for the Igbo in Nigeria was the Nigeria-Biafra war (1967-70). It was the litmus test. Zik crossed over to the Nigerian side because of personal difficulties with the Biafra leadership. Biafra or the Igbo was fighting a war of survival and freedom after being massacred in Nigeria and attacked militarily. Zik was in favor of Biafra as long as he called the shots and the going was good. Biafra is a matter of principle not personal feelings about Ojukwu or his leadership style. This pattern of unprincipled behavior and egotism were characteristic of Zik whether it was in Nigeria or Biafra. When things were not favorable to him personally he would decamp. He did not make and keep promises. Space does not allow me to go into full details and explanations but only to say that a leader acts based on principles and collective interests not personal interests or egotism. Making and keeping promises is the cornerstone of leadership or a person."

http://nigeriaworld.com/articles/2009/apr/071.html

@SapeleGuy

Thanks for the article. It's strong, and many of us agree with it.
Zik was not perfect, infact from building rental hostels around UNN for his own personal pocket, to his involvement with Onitsha vs Nnewi problem/Ifeajuna vs Ojukwu, etc; he had more than his fair share of condenmnable actions against Ndigbo.

Whether his actions were truely intended to harm Igbos, or Igbos percieved his action as detrimental, because for one thing Igbo ama eze is yet to be decided.

While we look at Awolowo and Sarduana as truely tribal champions of their people, somehow, we all know that Zik aspired to be more nationalistic than was really possible---wrongly or rightly.
Also, both Awo and Sarduana had complaints from reasonable segments of their own populations.

Your comparison of Zik's activities with those of Adaka Boro is in very bad taste, because despite strong differences with Ojukwu and Nnewi people, Zik never took up arms against the people of eastern Nigeria.

"Specifically on Igbo leadership, the Igbo culture is very clear about what makes one fit or unfit for leadership. A thief or a traitor (sabo) cannot be a leader. Being a thief or traitor is the lowest of the lowest (an abomination or nso ala) among the Igbo. In fact, it automatically makes one an outcast. [/b]Whether one likes it or not, [b]the defining moment for the Igbo in Nigeria was the Nigeria-Biafra war (1967-70). "

I couldn't add anything more!

naijaking1:

@SapeleGuy

Thanks for the article. It's strong, and many of us agree with it.
Zik was not perfect, infact from building rental hostels around UNN for his own personal pocket, to his involvement with Onitsha vs Nnewi problem/Ifeajuna vs Ojukwu, etc; he had more than his fair share of condenmnable actions against Ndigbo.

Whether his actions were truely intended to harm Igbos, or Igbos percieved his action as detrimental, because for one thing Igbo ama eze is yet to be decided.

While we look at Awolowo and Sarduana as truely tribal champions of their people, somehow, we all know that Zik aspired to be more nationalistic than was really possible---wrongly or rightly.
Also, both Awo and Sarduana had complaints from reasonable segments of their own populations.

Your comparison of Zik's activities with those of Adaka Boro is in very bad taste, because despite strong differences with Ojukwu and Nnewi people, Zik never took up arms against the people of eastern Nigeria.

Igbo ama eze

There is a simple test to show whom the Igbo accept as their leaders. Let anyone claiming Igbo leadership [b]take a walk on foot [/b]around Onitsha, Nnewi, Aba, Owerri, Enugu, Abakaliki or any place with large Igbo concentration including Lagos. If such a person is swarmed  or carried shoulder high by a huge crowd chanting nzogbu nzogbu, then he is an Igbo leader. You'll be surprised that there are only two leaders in Igboland today. One is an aging warrior. The other is a young, small-statured man with a lion heart. No need naming names. But Igbos know their leaders.

The Igbo ama eze concept explains why Igbos "naturally" refuse to kiss ass. They remain critical of everybody, even their own----it maybe wrong or right, just don't know.
The criticism of Igbo leaders by Igbos-Zik, Ojukwu, Mbakwe, Nwobodo, etc is just an extention of the republican nature of Igbos. This concept has hurt Ndigbo politically, but it remains the driving spirit behind every Igbo person's desire to be better.

naijaking1:

The Igbo ama eze concept explains why Igbos "naturally" refuse to kiss ass. They remain critical of everybody, even their own----it maybe wrong or right, just don't know.
The criticism of Igbo leaders by Igbos-Zik, Ojukwu, Mbakwe, Nwobodo, etc is just an extention of the republican nature of Igbos. This concept has hurt Ndigbo politically, but it remains the driving spirit behind every Igbo person's desire to be better.

Were you on powder when you said Igbos don't kiss asses? For real? Actions speak louder than words.
Why did you merger with NPN?
Why did you let Abiola join your party (NCNC) and play a giant role? It might be because of his cake!
Abiola betrayed Awolowo by joining NCNC and papa Awo cursed him. He said he would have the same aspiration like him, he might even win but will never rule this nation.

Ibime:

Yeah, we know the distinction between Eastern and Western Ijaw. . . . but what Batubo was challenging is that you said East > West.

Oh!!! It is my bad. I should have written that western Ijo is better than eastern Ijo. I hope you are satisfied now. Sorry to both Ibi and Otubo.

akigbemaru:

Were you on powder when you said Igbos don't kiss asses? For real? Actions speak louder than words.
Why did you merger with NPN?
Why did you let Abiola join your party (NCNC) and play a giant role? It might be because of his cake!
Abiola betrayed Awolowo by joining NCNC and papa Awo cursed him. He said he would have the same aspiration like him, he might even win but will never rule this nation.

Can we now say that Pa Awo has a hand in the cancellation of the election of june 12. Look the words of these old folks might be hurting us today. Who knows what and what must have been said that is manifesting in todays Nigeria.

cowards die before their death, a really wise saying a dummy naijaking who posted this thread is really what he is a DUMMY, look through your ibo horizon and point a hero to me, ojukwu who you boast about didnt even have the nerve to fight to the finish he absconded for phillips who incidentally had more balls than him AND IS A MINORITY FROM THE NIGER DELTA, why does the ibo man think you can achieve biafra with the niger delta being a part of it thats rubbish, boro must have fought with the federal side but he was wise enough to align himself with the lesser devil, the thought of the niger delta man having his revenge on the wrongs done on him by his ibo neighbour before the war made all of them to run and abandon their properties leading to the abandoned property saga, my village okrika was burned by the retreating biafran soldiers, and for your information port harcourt was invaded by the biafran army, their was no room for minorities in biafra, minorities saw hell in the former eastern region everything was either in aba or enugu and this was got boro mad, it was the eastern region government headed by the ibo's that were supposed to provide the soccour for the minority tribes but it was never provided and here you are calling adaka boro a coward, he fought and died on the war front that ojokuwu could neve and would never do.

@babasoty

You are simply too much. Thank you

babasoty:

my village okrika was burned by the retreating biafran soldiers

hmmm. . . . Chairman. . . Idanloku. . . . you done come o. . . . which part of Okrika was burned by the Biafrans? I hope you are not talking of Okrika mainland. . . . . please clarify cos this one sounds like conspiracy theory to me. . .

ibime mbire oo miee, i am sick of all this crazy bunch who never see anything good in the aspirations and desires of a people who want true federalism, we aint saying we want to form our own country all we want is the oil that comes from our backyard to be properly managed and we too should geta fair share, and we have some loudmouths here castigating boro, the two timing ibo's always wanna tell us we betrayed them, why wont i betray a man that wants to kill me. please if boro is no hero to naijaking or wateva his stupid name is, HE IS MY HERO

babasoty:

ibime mbire oo miee, i am sick of all this crazy bunch who never see anything good in the aspirations and desires of a people who want true federalism, we aint saying we want to form our own country all we want is the oil that comes from our backyard to be properly managed and we too should geta fair share, and we have some loudmouths here castigating boro, the two timing ibo's always wanna tell us we betrayed them, why wont i betray a man that wants to kill me. please if boro is no hero to naijaking or wateva his stupid name is, HE IS MY HERO

Oga, I dey hear you about Boro and all that, but pls lets not sacrifice the truth on the altar of ethnic jingoism. . . . the young boys in the Biafran army made friends with the people of Kirike. . . . the people of Kirike warmed to them. . . my pops was in Kirike at the time, and he was regularly taking letters from his uncle (Ado VIII) to the Biafran commander. . . . when Nigeria invaded, there was no time for Biafran soldiers to burn anything down. . . they simply fled. . . . ask your parents, they will tell you that the Okrikans all dressed in traditional clothes at the time of the invasion so that they would not be mistaken for soldiers and shot. . .

ibime
do you know that some chiefs were abducted and that also some people from ogu were abducted and forced to leave withe the biafrans when they were retreating from okrika

babasoty:

ibime
do you know that some chiefs were abducted and that also some people from ogu were abducted and forced to leave withe the biafrans when they were retreating from okrika

I dont know about Ogu specifically, I can only say what happened in Ogan and Kirike. No doubt, there were atrocities on both sides. Should we close our eyes to the Nigerian atrocities and focus only on the Biafran ones? Ogan-Ama for example was shelled by both Biafran and Nigerian forces cos they didnt know who Ogan had allegiance to. . . . so who should we point fingers at?

i know we are like pawns on both sides to satisfy their bloated egos my annoyance with the likes of niajaking1 is that they make it look like we sabotaged their dreams of having a great empire, an empire they wanted to build on our blood and sweat, thank God biafra never materialised what the jews suffered in nazi germany would be child's play to what we would have gone thru but like i said boro chose to align with a lesser devil

akigbemaru:

Were you on powder when you said Igbos don't kiss asses? For real? Actions speak louder than words.
Why did you merger with NPN?

I hope something has not happened to our history because the way people turn the truth on its head is alarming.

NPN ke? Are you are that though NPN had an Igbo vice president that his own state was controlled by the NPP with Jim Nwobodo as the governor until NPN rigged him out of office in 1983?

Now, you know you may now understand why Jim was not in support of Ekwueme at the Jos convention because Ekwueme supported Shagari and fought NPP just to acquire power.

Even Ojukwu when he was pardoned joined NPN but his state was in the hands of NPP.

This should tell you that when it comes to politics or leadership the Igbos do not take instructions from a single person, they do what is best for them considering the circumstances.

@niajaking1
When someone says :

na_so:


For a guy who grew up on the sweat and wealth of eastern Nigerians, before oil was discovered, he suddenly forgot how dependent his people were on Enugu.


Ijaw people were glad to depend on Igbos when there was no oil. Then came the war, the oil, and Adaka Boro, and a federal government that demarcated most of the oil fields out of Igboland, then all of sudden some myopic Ijaws think that "they have it made"

and later come to say:

na_so:


The Ijaws had palm trees, but they were not the major exporters
Instead, the Ijaws produced fish---which was important, but not palm produce.  

I will simply say the man has UPGRADED. keep it up ,your miracle is on the way. Or you just mistakenly dey dribble go your goal   post?  

But I will ask  why would Boro not cry marginalisation  when the then eastern government did not deem it fit to build any fish factory in Ijaw land and felt the most appropriate place ABA.

I have refrained from commenting on port harcourt but you guys have not ceased from saying that the Ijaws  truned their backs on  Ibos after they developed port harcourt. FALSE

I am not one of the Ijaws the lay claim to port harcourt being Ijawland.

The development of port harcourt was as  consequence of economic actvities there and the deliberate effort of the british to develop that area for administrative ease for  their business transaction. (I know coal was one of the  major players then).  Lets just spare ourselves details here.

If there were  direct effort of the then eastern government to develop port harcourt is a subject of debate in itself. MAKE WE NO GO THERE.

The high level of individual property ownership by the Ibos in port harcourt  is attributable to the ibocracy bureaucracy of the eastern government in making property acquisition by the non-ibos very difficult . We all know this.

@dede

Before we speak on the palm produce again, just kindly explain why palm produce business is no longer a major revenue earner for the country or even Ibos ? please spare me  the details of your expeditions in Ijawland this time.

Afam:


This should tell you that when it comes to politics or leadership the Igbos do not take instructions from a single person, they do what is best for them considering the circumstances.

oh , so within the Ibos people consider the circumstance before taking a decision but other "minority" tribes in the eastern region could not , ok I see why Boro is the crook and Ike nwachukwu the hero. abi?

na_so:

oh , so within the Ibos people consider the circumstance before taking a decision but other "minority" tribes in the eastern region could not , ok I see why Boro is the crook and Ike nwachukwu the hero. abi?

lol. . . . I was just about to say the same thing. . .

Ibime:

hmmm. . . . Chairman. . . Idanloku. . . . you done come o. . . . which part of Okrika was burned by the Biafrans? I hope you are not talking of Okrika mainland. . . . . please clarify cos this one sounds like conspiracy theory to me. . .

Ibime, i am still waiting for babasoty to answer your question above. I read all his response after your question, and all i saw was a novice cleverly dodging a question that was posed to him. May i ask again, babasory, which part of Okrika was burned by the Biafrans?

na_so:

oh , so within the Ibos people consider the circumstance before taking a decision but other "minority" tribes in the eastern region could not , ok I see why Boro is the crook and Ike nwachukwu the hero. abi?

I am not the type that advocate tribal supremacy. I only contribute on topics to clarify or correct any misinformation I can correct.

I have never and will never call Boro a crook so get your facts right when asking me questions as I don't play the tribal game.

What's with Ike Nwachukwu? I must confess that I don't understand what his name is doing here at the moment.

Afam:

I am not the type that advocate tribal supremacy. I only contribute on topics to clarify or correct any misinformation I can correct.

I have never and will never call Boro a crook so get your facts right when asking me questions as I don't play the tribal game.

What's with Ike Nwachukwu? I must confess that I don't understand what his name is doing here at the moment.

I am sorry my broda. No harm meant. Thot you followed the thread from start. Your tribesmen have called Boro every name in the book for not supporting the Biafran governement while leaving out Ibo sons that also did not support same.

naijaking1:

The Ijaw people that fight with Urhobo people in Warri is different from the Ijaw people that fight with Igbos in PH. Fact!
They were seperate and even hostile to each other before all these oil brouhaha.

erm when did this fighting between the Ijaws and Urhobo people take place?

naijaKing1: The Ijaw people that fight with Urhobo people in Warri is different from the Ijaw people that fight with Igbos in PH. Fact!
They were seperate and even hostile to each other before all these oil brouhaha.

Rubbish. Ijaw have NEVER EVER fought with Urhobo!

Beaf:

Rubbish. Ijaw have NEVER EVER fought with Urhobo!

na_so:

I am sorry my broda. No harm meant. Thot you followed the thread from start. Your tribesmen have called Boro every name in the book for not supporting the Biafran governement while leaving out  Ibo sons that also did not support same.

No wahala. You know this tribal issue is getting out of hand so I try not to dabble into it. I believe people can agree or disagree on any issue under the sun without pulling daggars or guns as long as there is mutual respect.

Meanwhile, you fit begin use the word Igbo and not Ibo? Ibo is a bastardized form of the word and the real word is Igbo.

So, wetin Ike Nwachukwu name dey do for hia?

naijaKing1: Why are you so confused?
We're not talking about 1700, or 1800s, we're talking about 1914 after Nigeria was amalgamated, and many tribes were forced into the NIgerian experiment.
We're not talking about selling slaves to the white people for cash, we're talking about generating revenue after slave trade has ended.
You have to keep your historical perspective correct.

Slave trading was done by Igbo's at Arochuckwu and Itsekiri's in Warri and Ijaw.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8oKjNjheHoAC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=slave+trading+itsekiri&source=bl&ots=8Khfr7X6PS&sig=z5ygtKKLlF2_AhQZmZHcrC085oY&hl=en&ei=xkZ8Sq3xHt6TjAeK_cCIBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=slave%20trading%20itsekiri&f=false

Beaf, edit your last post before your elders catch you misrepresenting history.

@Ibime

Afam:

What's with Ike Nwachukwu? I must confess that I don't understand what his name is doing here at the moment.

someone on this thread said this and no claims to the contrary yet.

[quote ]
The Biafran cause was like a can of mixed nuts. Thousands of Ijo, Annang, Ogoni, Ibibio etc believed in the cause and fought hard for it to the end. I mus say that the biggest traitors to the Biafran cause were the likes of Ike Nwachukwu and Ukpabi Asika (My humble opinion). It's a little bizarre that Nwachukwu's been parading himself lately as the "Quota" for "Igbo Presidency". . . whatever that means.

[quote][/quote]