sheyie2007: check the meaning of sarcasm in your dictionary... I understood his point but you didn't

Do you still think that he was being sarcastic?

souldust: so they make their money? And how many provinces do you have? Whats their annual budget? What is the average cost of living in SA as compared to Naija? Becos since we are not uneducated, we know that your budget compared to you cost of living is what shows your real worth. If you have 10naira and your cost of living is 6naira, i dont believe you can add more value than the man with 8naira and 3naira cost of living all things being equal.

We have nine provinces. The provinces and municipalities make money through rates and property taxes on the residents as well as profit from services such as electricity and water supply.

www.iol.co.za/business/business-news/gauteng-spends-99-of-budget-1.1510305

www.joburg.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=523

@ZetDee
Bro these are their cities, some of these MONKEYS were born here.
NIGERIA HAS THE BIGGEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY THAN SOUTH AFRICA
NIGERIA HAS THE BIGGEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING IN URBAN SLUMS IN AFRICA
NIGERIAS ELECTRIC PRODUCTION AND CONSUMPTION IS LOWER THAN SOUTH AFRICA.

ALL IN ALL NIGERIA=SHITHOLE AS THE BOER WOULD SAY "Negerie is n KAK plek".

https://www.nairaland.com/1062003/oshogbo-nigerias-most-beatiful-city/3

agaugust:

you are a thief, dont steal nigeria's glory. ex-president obasanjo landed Nigerian army in south sudan before any other african country you thief and liar !

shameless south african coward, a nigerian army woman will C.apture you @andrewza in real war and she will make you to polish her shoes and wash her uniforms, clean her cooking pot...POW prisoner of war !

Since when has landing a handful of cowards in Darfur become South Sudan do you even know there's a difference between South Sudan and Darfur region in Sudan. SA's former President Thabo Mbeki brokered the peace process between South and Northern Sudans arab led goverment.


I can see you haven't lost your foolish ways and distinct twisting of the truth even when people give you sources you act like a fool.

Here is proof to what SPLM in Sudan thinks about Mbeki and what South Africa has already done for lasting peace in Sudan.
http://bnaidarfur.org/2013/01/19/splm-n-rebels-say-mbeki-can-broker-comprehensive-process-for-peace-in-sudan/

What's the Nigerian Air Force crash history.

paniki: What's the Nigerian Air Force crash history.

what crash history?
The united states airforce have had far more crashes than Nigeria.
What's your point?

homerac7:

can you now see why I beeen say you dey CRASE?

again, you still think you can drag me into protracted fooolish argument by shifting "goal post" as you did to Augugust who thought he was "teaching" a normal person? ...again, YOU DEY CRASE! initially, you insinuated that Nigeria didn't participate in WW1&2 + Korean War, when I showed you otherwise, you are asking under whose banner they fought and if they were truly in Korea? MAKE THUNDER FIRE THAT YOUR HAND WEY YOU CARRY TYPE THAT RUBBISH!

So because I stated that Nigeria gets consulted by major powers on security in Africa, you want to die abi? weel, you had better hug a wet transformer because it it TRUE and FACTUAL, and there's nothing you or your country can do about it!

Hey! ...why again did your president time his "fence mending" visit to Nigeria right after your SELEKA whoozing?

On your opinion of Nigerians, who gives a rat arse about what a mumu xenophobic cook thinks, huh?

[size=32pt]PROUDLY NAIJA ALWAYS [/size]

South Africans can go eat shiit and die for all we care!

The so called major countries are building imperialist military outpost right at your borders in Niger that's the only consultant work they have in Nigeria.

Nigeria can't even protect its territorial waters from AK-47 wielding gun boat gangsters stealing and robbing ships inside Nigeria's territory on a weekly basis.

Do you know why Zuma met GEJ. You people especially the other fool @Aguagust simply have no idea about bilateral meetings between Nigeria and SA both South Africa and Nigeria are partners beyond all this NL sh**t and foolish media st*pi*dy, and they both play essential role in peace and stability on the continent.

Lastly I would sincerely suggest Nigeria do something about its neighbors becoming US-AFRICOM frontline states, or is your so called giants of africa to weak to repel neo-colonialist setting up shop in your own neighborhood. Nigeria should ask South Africa and Angola how to tell the U.S and even our own neighbors that there will be hell to pay if any American military base is within 1000km near SA or Angola.

homerac7:

can you now see why I beeen say you dey CRASE?

again, you still think you can drag me into protracted fooolish argument by shifting "goal post" as you did to Augugust who thought he was "teaching" a normal person? ...again, YOU DEY CRASE! initially, you insinuated that Nigeria didn't participate in WW1&2 + Korean War, when I showed you otherwise, you are asking under whose banner they fought and if they were truly in Korea? MAKE THUNDER FIRE THAT YOUR HAND WEY YOU CARRY TYPE THAT RUBBISH!

So because I stated that Nigeria gets consulted by major powers on security in Africa, you want to die abi? weel, you had better hug a wet transformer because it it TRUE and FACTUAL, and there's nothing you or your country can do about it!

Hey! ...why again did your president time his "fence mending" visit to Nigeria right after your SELEKA whoozing?

On your opinion of Nigerians, who gives a rat arse about what a mumu xenophobic cook thinks, huh?

[size=32pt]PROUDLY NAIJA ALWAYS [/size]

South Africans can go eat shiit and die for all we care!

The so called major countries are building imperialist military outpost right at your borders in Niger that's the only consultant work they have in Nigeria.

Nigeria can't even protect its territorial waters from AK-47 wielding gun boat gangsters stealing and robbing ships inside Nigeria's territory on a weekly basis.

Do you know why Zuma met GEJ. You people especially the other fool @Aguagust simply have no idea about bilateral meetings between Nigeria and SA both South Africa and Nigeria are partners beyond all this NL sh**t and foolish media st*pi*dy, and they both play essential role in peace and stability on the continent.

Lastly I would sincerely suggest Nigeria do something about its neighbors becoming US-AFRICOM frontline states, or is your so called giants of africa to weak to repel neo-colonialist setting up shop in your own neighborhood. Nigeria should ask South Africa and Angola how to tell the U.S and even our own neighbors that there will be hell to pay if any American military base is within 1000km near SA or Angola.

^^Look a@ who is talking about US- Africom

Uganda, Botswana, have more American soldiers and consultants than any West African country and they are close to u yet you did/do nothing about that lol..

CAMEROONPRIDE: ^^Look a@ who is talking about US- Africom

Uganda, Botswana, have more American soldiers and consultants than any West African country and they are close to u yet you did/do nothing about that lol..

There are no permany us forces in botswans.

USA forces are not just helping uganda but a number of countrys fight the LRA. Most of the US forces are actully in CAR.

solomon111: what crash history?
The united states airforce have had far more crashes than Nigeria.
What's your point?

The USA flys far more hours and has far more aircraft than nigeria. So that a foolish point.

andrewza:

There are no permany us forces in botswans.

USA forces are not just helping uganda but a number of countrys fight the LRA. Most of the US forces are actully in CAR.

CAR is not a west Af country, that wasn't even the point, the point is instead of pointing fingers , he should clean his own yard, because American are in uganda , Tanzania,Botswana,Angola and are there to
stay ..why is almighty SA is not doing anything?

BTW , I don't think what u said about CAR is true or maybe they are very recent.

solomon111: what crash history?
The united states airforce have had far more crashes than Nigeria.
What's your point?

The Nigerian Air Force has been crashing in recent days. Is this incompetence normal or is it equipment malfunction? And the bit about the US Air Force is obvious dude.

CAMEROONPRIDE:
CAR is not a west Af country, that wasn't even the point, the point is instead of pointing fingers , he should clean his own yard, because American are in uganda , Tanzania,Botswana,Angola and are there to
stay ..why is almighty SA is not doing anything?

BTW , I don't think what u said about CAR is true or maybe they are very recent.

They are?

America sends traing teams. They have no asserts in SADC. And will not Unlike west and east africa.

It been a ongoing proceses for some time. US SF teams where helping ugandar hunting LRA in CAR. Strang you did not know.

paniki:

The Nigerian Air Force has been crashing in recent days. Is this incompetence normal or is it equipment malfunction? And the bit about the US Air Force is obvious dude.

I have not heard of any higer than averiage crashe rate in nigeria. Last air force crash in south Africa was a SAAF A109 in kruger park.

Cause unkown. Pilot era due to nigh condistion or mechnical fauler are the 2 lickly problems.

Sa has had 4 A109 crashes. 1 pilot era 2 disghine faults 1 under invisgastion.

Of the 4 2 where fatal and 2 crash landings with no injuries.

Personaly I don't like the A109 I prever the BK111. But the 109 is suposed to be more verstial.

all4naija: A resounding rounds of applause for this your comment. Some biased South Africans wouldn't see beyond their nose, like Paniki is trying to point out the accident must have happened due to incompetence of the pilots. Which nobody knows yet until further investigation is carried out to prove what the likely causes might be. You prove with this your comment to be very objective and as knowledgeable individual in addressing complicated issue as such.

Thank you for this comment, dude.

I prever to wait for all the facts to come out and every body to have there say before haveing a opion.

Though there have been 2 crashes non where the same aircraft.

Though I suspect human era in the alpha jet. Where they not just modernized.

Has for the helicopter. We don't even know the make or any detail.

snydergp:

The so called major countries are building imperialist military outpost right at your borders in Niger that's the only consultant work they have in Nigeria.

Nigeria can't even protect its territorial waters from AK-47 wielding gun boat gangsters stealing and robbing ships inside Nigeria's territory on a weekly basis.

Do you know why Zuma met GEJ. You people especially the other fool @Aguagust simply have no idea about bilateral meetings between Nigeria and SA both South Africa and Nigeria are partners beyond all this NL sh**t and foolish media st*pi*dy, and they both play essential role in peace and stability on the continent.

Lastly I would sincerely suggest Nigeria do something about its neighbors becoming US-AFRICOM frontline states, or is your so called giants of africa to weak to repel neo-colonialist setting up shop in your own neighborhood. Nigeria should ask South Africa and Angola how to tell the U.S and even our own neighbors that there will be hell to pay if any American military base is within 1000km near SA or Angola.

Make thunder fire that your mouth!

You idiotas know next to nothing about intricacies of African regional politics and instead of keeping quiet and learn from your betters who started it while you were in dark ages of apartheid, you dive headlong and get trounced again and again.

By the way, your president came here to beg. Accept the obvious fact or go and hang. mumu people.

Nigeria is still 100yrs behind SA interms of Infrustructure. Country of 160m producing only 4000MWn whereas SA with a population of 52m produces 55 000MW. You can see Nigeria still got a Long way to go. Without power infester will run away and the Economic growth will fall below 5%.

Nigeria should be competing with countries like Kenya, Libya, algeria and Egypt. SA got no competition in Africa. SA is way too advance, no wonder every African wants to be in SA. its not by Fluke. Its the only Country you find any Nationalities in Africa.

1,2:
Nigeria is still 100yrs behind SA interms of Infrustructure. Country of 160m producing only 4000MWn whereas SA with a population of 52m produces 55 000MW. You can see Nigeria still got a Long way to go. Without power infester will run away and the Economic growth will fall below 5%.

Nigeria should be competing with countries like Kenya, Libya, algeria and Egypt. SA got no competition in Africa. SA is way too advance, no wonder every African wants to be in SA. its not by Fluke. Its the only Country you find any Nationalities in Africa.

Oh boy you're in trouble, they'll come down on you like a meteor shower.

all4naija: A resounding rounds of applause for this your comment. Some biased South Africans wouldn't see beyond their nose, like Paniki is trying to point out the accident must have happened due to incompetence of the pilots. Which nobody knows yet until further investigation is carried out to prove what the likely causes might be. You prove with this your comment to be very objective and as knowledgeable individual in addressing complicated issue as such.

Thank you for this comment, dude.

first time @andrewza told the truth in a long long long time. maybe his wife kissed him 10 times this morning ! lol

1,2:
Nigeria is still 100yrs behind SA interms of Infrustructure. Country of 160m producing only 4000MWn whereas SA with a population of 52m produces 55 000MW. You can see Nigeria still got a Long way to go. Without power infester will run away and the Economic growth will fall below 5%.

Nigeria should be competing with countries like Kenya, Libya, algeria and Egypt. SA got no competition in Africa. SA is way too advance, no wonder every African wants to be in SA. its not by Fluke. Its the only Country you find any Nationalities in Africa.

you are lost in that cage the white man boer tied you with chains in soweto republic.

who built south african electricity power to this level ? who built your developed country ? the white man boer sowed and you black soweto prisoners come to reap where you did not sow.

nigeria has also signed africa's biggest electricity deal with Canada's manitoba power company. i posted that months ago you were not here.

nigeria will have 24 hour daily electricity supply from this deal with Canada

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/african-and-mideast-business/nigeria-signs-23-million-electricity-deal-with-canadian-firm/article4436258/

your body is free from the boer, but your brain is still in the white man's cage, making you think south africa is the only modern nation in africa. you are lost, more lost than the stone age early man in primitive firts days after evolution of mammals.

see your soweto republic family in photo below, and your white masters who built south africa for you to enjoy !

[quote author=agaugust

modern day economists dont rely on GDP anymore to measure wealth. cash networth is the common measure of national wealth and financial health nowadays.

(a). Well, I did say this is complex. Because of that, we cannot work through everything in one go. So, I will do what I can, for now.

(b) I suspected that you we re going to assume GDP was the other measure. I guess it is, but the more relevant measure, given your line of thinking is purchasing power.

(c) Purchasing power does not mean "cash". Not necessarily, anyway. I'll get to that,but I just want to address this first --->

(d) ---> We need to work out what you mean by "cash net worth". I am not sure about the phrase, so we may be speaking in cross purposes, because of this undefined phrase. I've never heard of "cash net worth".

(e) Back to buying power: At the risk of going off at a tangent, due to paragraph (d), I'd first say that there has never been a time when GDP stopped being used, so that we can now speak of "modern day economists". What is a modern day economist? GDP will always be looked at, but it cannot always be used as a raw number, because it will have no meaning in certain enquiries. But a basic, useful measure, it remains.

(e) Anyway, we are talking about a country's ability to buy goods from the market, so purchasing power is the more refined consideration. Complex, the issue might be, but let us see what we can work out.

(f) I will cut a long story short. South Africa is listed in the top 25 by purchasing power parity, while Nigeria is listed in the top 30. This is not withstanding what you argue to be South Africa's negative balance of payments. See here -----. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=50&v=65&l=en.

(g) This measure will look at the domestic product at exchange rates against the US Dollar; and therefore, has built into it the strength of the subject country's currency. Needless to say, a country with a lower purchasing power score (i.e. Nigeria) will deplete its cash stores at a higher rate than a better placed country (i.e. South Africa), in order to purchase the same goods (priced against the US Dollar).

(h) I remind you that we are talking here about a country's ability to get the goods that it needs for progress - for human development.

(i) Then, building on to that, let us talk about cash, the asset. I have already commented on what the purpose of cash is. Now, I just want to show that for the purposes of (h), it is not always necessary or wise to be fixated with cash, the asset.

CREDIT AND THE INABILITY TO SURVIVE ON CASH:

(j) There is not a single country in the whole world than can meet all of its needs through cash only. Countries need credit, such that a healthy credit score is an absolute necessity.

(i) South Africa's credit score is roughly BBB. Nigeria's is roughly BB-.

(k) Notwithstanding what you see as vast amounts of cash, Nigeria gets penalised more than South Africa does when it goes to the credit market, which it does (go to the market) like everyone else. For every dollar borrowed, Nigeria pays back more than South Africa does, further losing out on potential wealth; and further depleting its cash reserves.

THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF CASH: CASH IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN CREDIT

(l) There's an old saying: Debt is cheaper than equity.

(m) Cash is good, yes. But the utility of cash is relative. For the majority of countries, cash is far more expensive (and risky) than credit is.

(n) The opportunity cost of building cash reserves (for developing countries) is stalled development. If you suffer from credit rating issues and purchasing power issues, the only way to build cash reserves is to purchase (import) less.

(o) When you import less, you are building less hospitals and roads. In that context, the opportunity cost of cash is far higher than the real cost of credit.

CASH IS RISKIER THAN CREDIT

(p) The risk of credit can be measured. If you default, you know exactly what the penalty will be.

(q) Credit can be planned for. If you have a certain credit rating, you know what the cost of credit will be; and you borrow according to your means. Planned properly, borrowing is not a burden, but is a relief, given paragraph (n) and (o).

(r) On the contrary, cash can be devalued day-to-day, by things beyond your control. 2008 is the obvious and most prominent example. Holding your wealth in vast stores of cash is ill-advised in the main; and unnecessary.

THE FUTURE COST OF CASH

(o) Tied to the opportunity cost of cash, is the need to make good on that cost.

(p) What this means is that if you neglect some of your needs today, in order to build cash reserves, you will have to pay up sooner or later.

(q) Every necessary road that remains unbuilt today has to be built in future. With inflation and things like paragraph (k) and (r) eating away at your wealth, the cost of building the road ten years down the line will be higher.

(r) Nigeria has more roads to build than SA does and therefore, has a much deeper hole to climb out of. While the need to go the credit market full force can be delayed through paragraph (n), this cannot be the case forever. In any case, Nigeria does go to the credit market today, so it is not as if Nigeria is solely cash-funded.

China vs america is a practical example. china has half the GDP of america but is liquid in cash and america has double of china's GDP but is broke because of heavy debt and low savings of cash

I did say the issue is complex; and you oversimplify it. Here are some of the complexities. China is yet to spend on the things that the US has already spent on. But spend on those things, China must. To assume that China avoids or will forever avoid credit is inaccurate. 2008 meant that China emerged as a go-to borrower, yes. But this does not mean that credit is bad. In any case, Nigeria is no China; and would not have been as opportunistically placed as China was, post-2008. Another complexity is that China's purchasing power score includes a lot of US or Western products. Where this places China in the future, no one knows. But yes, China has more money of its own to spend, at the moment; and will likely grow stronger and stronger.

We are aligned on the point that welfare states could [b]potentially[/b]risk being broke. However, this is not as simple as you want to make it sound. What matters (as I said in my earlier post) is that a country's deficit (and credit level) is well managed. That the US failed to manage its deficit (which really had more to do with wars than welfare spending) does not mean that we can draw conclusions like yours on credit and the like. Consider 2008, wars, welfare etc; and make a holistic assessment.

if you try to use all economic indices, GDP/growth rate, interest rate, inflation rate, unemployment rate, exchange rate, price index rate, etc you will get confused because one country is high in one index and low on the other. so how do you judge who is richer ? the simplest model in the financial world today is cash net-worth.

I still don't know what cash net-worth is. But I agree that using one measure is not sufficient. I do not see this as a debate about who is richer. I see it as a debate about which economy is best placed to benefit its people. This is what economies are about. Best placed does not mean rich per se. It means "able". This requires that you look at more than the money in the bank. It requires that you look at the economy's ability to get the goods and services that it needs.

cash net-worth is how much cash savings you have minus debt you owe.

Oh, Ok I see you explain it here. Thanks.

Based on this, I'm not going to revisit any of the things I've already said, at this stage. But I want to point the problem with your argument. When you started this, you spoke about a positive or negative balance of payments. Then when called upon to explain what you meant, you spoke about cash spending, credit etc.

Now, having a negative balance of payments does not imply a debt deficit or the inability to meet your debt obligations. When you, as a country buy more than you sell, you meet the deficit through tax revenue, because you do not have sufficient import revenue. This does not mean that you are in debt. It means that your exports and imports do not cancel each other out.

South Africa has a better credit score than Nigeria does. This would not be the case if Nigeria was a better performer, on the credit front. Given that both countries borrow, Nigeria comes out worse off, because it gives more money to the credit market. How can leaving money on the table mean that you are a better economy?

It shows your power to do things with money without any creditor hunting after you and without damaging your credit rating by banks or global rating agencies like bloomberg.

Considering how much faith you have in cash, you shouldn't worry about your credit score. However this statement shows that you do recognise the importance of credit. If we agree that credit is important, then we should agree that what matters is well managed debt. I have already spoken about why "debt is cheaper than equity". So, I will not repeat it.

a company that trades with borrowed money and makes profit all the time, is sitting on a time bomb.

I repeat, debt is cheaper than equity. Well managed debt (i.e. using other people's money, safely) is better and more conducive to growth. No one can grow without debt. Cash reserves are never enough - unless you run a corner shop; or a tea room; or small island.

i am an accountant by profession.

It does not matter what you do. What matters is your argument. In any case, accountancy is not public finance, which is what we are talking about here.

you need cash savings to to research and development of new products to keep above your competitors

R& D is an expense on your balance sheet, yes. Cannot be capitalised, because immediate returns aren't guaranteed. However, I fail to see how you cannot fund the R& D cost in the same way that you fund the marketing cost, for example.

In any case, I don't understand why we are talking about a cost that is incurred by firms, as opposed to governments. We are discussing public; and not private finance. Examples drawing from company management are good, but R& D is not a public finance cost, so it is not a useful example.

, thats why china is taking over the world economy...huge cash savings for R & D new products, experiments, developmets, etc

See above re: R& D. In order to avoid complicating the discussion, I will leave it there (We will end up discussing China, which will derail us)

Debt devalues your company in times of mergers, acquisitions, amalgamations, take-overs, etc. nobody will buy your company without removing your debt from the price he will pay to merge or acquire it.

Equity debt devalues companies more so than anything else. If you are a government, "cash spending" is the equivalent of "equity debt" for companies.

Why are we talking about mergers? This is a public finance discussion, which you started? Governments do not merge. If you are just showing the adverse effects of debt, Ok. Fair enough. Still. Anyone who devalues a company with healthy gearing levels is unrealistic, because they are implying that a company should sit with no debt. What matters is healthy debt planning.

Yes government needs to provide best welfare and infrastructure to raise the citizens standard of living

This is the main role of government. Everything is meant to achieve this objective. Even wars are meant to be fought for this purpose, in the main. Military prowess and cash reserves that do not talk to this purpose are misguided values.

, but is that a reason to spend more than you earn and go into huge, not small, huge debt like south africa's $40 billion ?

As already stated, a negative balance of payments does not imply spending more than you earn. Let us go through the principles again:

(i) Balance of payments look at the value of exports, vs the value of imports.

(ii) Governments raise money through taxes - income taxes, VAT etc in the case of domestic activity; and customs etc in the case of cross-border activity.

(iii) That you have a negative balance of payments does not mean that you do not raise enough tax revenue.

(iv) Never mind that - it does not not mean that you cannot service your debt comfortably.

will you as a man go into debt to provide luxury for your children ? instead of providing just basic needs ? why buy mercedes benz s-class car if toyota corolla can transport you to work ?

Luxuries, no. But roads are not luxuries. They are necessities. Avoiding debt, while you have an infrastructural challenge is not smart. It is like refusing to buy factory equipment needed by your company today, because you want to avoid debt and save money, so that you buy the equipment ten years from now.That is bad management. Going to the credit market is a wise decision, under such circumstances.

Nigeria has lots of stuff to build. Lots. And build this stuff, Nigeria must. The cash that you claim Nigeria has is insufficient to avoid debt. Nigeria borrows and it will continue to. And for as long as it borrows, it must look at its credit rating, due to paragraphs (l) - (r)

south africa as we are told on this forum has welfare benefits/funding for its citizens, it makes people lazy.

I am sure that despite the argument that you are putting forward, you realise that Nigeria, is one of the biggest recipients of developmental aid in the world? Is the whole nation of Nigeria lazy, then?

South Africa, although a recipient of aid, has (along with India) just been told by the UK that it will no longer receive aid from this country, because it can fund its own development.

Not sure where this places your argument about South Africa falling apart because of its welfare programme. If the country manages its affairs appropriately, its being a welfare state is neither here nor there. That the UK is about to pull the plug on aid to SA means that SA is doing something right.

In any case, academics are yet to agree on what welfare programmes do to nations. We cannot do justice to the topic, other than looking to see which country is more self-sufficient than the other, between Nigeria and SA. South Africa is more self-sufficient than Nigeria is.

we are in trouble in america with billions of dollars welfare benefits the government pays to some millions of people who refuse to work all their lives now, because of free dollars welfare package. welfare state model is a heavy burden on a country unless you have huge oil wealth and tiny population like saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar, uae/dubai, etc.

Yes, it's a burden. But neglecting your population is an even bigger burden. Social welfare means South Africans are not neglected. I fail to see how improving the lives of citizens (South Africans), when compared to the RELATIVE (emphasis) neglect in Nigeria is a bad thing.

britain, spain, greece, cyprus, etc are all in economic crisis now and will not recover for a long time due to heavy debt burden and citizens welfare funds burden. these countries have been living beyond their real income for decades. it takes time for bad financial model to show publicly, but it will show eventually. its a time bomb !

Oversimplification. I do not get how we can talk about the troubles of these countries and fail to mention 2008. As a matter of interest, South Africa is one of a few emerging economies that was affected by 2008, because of its reliance on the EU, as a trading partner. Failing to mention 2008 when talking about these economies is less than thorough.

south africa is not a paradise,

No, it is not. But the general point that you are arguing is that Nigeria is better placed because of "cash". I am not seeing that.

it is sitting on an economic time bomb because of :

$40 billion external debt that wipes out 93% of cash savings/reserves if deducted

Well managed credit is a financial tool; and not a time bomb. Shying away from credit is financial childhood, as I have elaborated above. A negative balance of payments is not bad credit.

nigeria's debt is only $7 billion

yearly interest expenses on a $40 billion loan as debt servicing, money that could have been used for capital growth

Debt is used for capital growth. Interest expenses are a small amount relative to the cash that would have to be raised. It's not clever to try and raise cash, when you have access to credit.

GDP growth rate at 2.7% is low for a country that wants to be top class economy in large consuming market like africa

nigeria's GDP growth rate is 7.1%

This (economic growth rate) has nothing to do with the argument. But seeing as you've mentioned it, yes. Quite right. 2.7% is low.

However, South Africa is not starting off a lower base like Nigeria is. Therefore, 2.7% hardly means that Nigeria is better placed. It simply means that Nigeria is growing at a faster rate - full stop. Growing at a faster rate does not mean "better placed".

negative balance of payments by imports revenue exceeding exports revenue

I have spoken about this.

nigeria has very positive balance of payments about 30 times higher than south africa

I have spoken about this too. And based on what has been said, Nigeria is yet to emerge as the better placed economy.

18 million people under poverty line

nigeria is 45%, south africa is 35%, fairly close poverty level

We cannot put forward something like this without a qualifier. There are two qualifiers, at least:

(i) 45% of Nigeria = more than South Africa's population. Hardly a close calculation.

(ii) We are yet to agree on what the poverty line is (i.e. Less than $1.00 a day or something else?)

13 million unemployed people

nigeria has 24%, south africa has 25%, very close unemployment level

Ditto above.

$2.5 Trillion mineral reserves (posted by one of you on nairaland) too low for a spending government with 51 million population.

nigeria has $32 Trillion mineral reserves

People cannot eat reserves. People eat the fruits of extracted wealth, the returns of which are used to benefit the population. Nigeria struggles with the low-hanging fruit that is oil. And here we are talking about wealth that is yet to be extracted. If you were buying shares in Nigeria Inc, it would be unwise to build into the share price, the value of this potential wealth, today. Never mind Nigeria's inability to manage its oil wealth, see here for market dynamics that do not help the situation ----> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324662404578333981454427720.html

based on all the above data, ask a chartered accountant which of the two countries he wants to own economically....

I have said enough to explain why I would still want to own South Africa today, as opposed to Nigeria.

sheyie2007: folks in those pic can still afford plane tickets to south Africa for greener pastures you can't say the same for SA

A one-way ticket, perhaps. With life savings depleted at one fell swoop. Let's be honest.

AwodwaGyanOniwe: @AllNigerianMonkeys
SOUTH AFRICANS WILL ALWAYS ENJOY THE BEST IN AFRICA.
LOOK AT THE FUTURE HDI INDEXES SOUTH AFRICA WILL BE LEADING AFRICA FROM 2030-2100 ONWARDS.

BEST OF EVERYTHING WHILE NIGERIA IN 2050 WILL BE FACING THE SAME CHALLENGES.
OVERPOPULATION=MORE POVERTY, POOR ROADS, POOR EDUCATION the list is endless.
AFRICA FUTURE HDI INDEXs
http://www.ifs.du.edu/assets/documents/hdi-forcasting-v2-2.pdf

MIDDLE FINGER TO ALL NAIJABOONS ONLINE. SHEBOONS AND HEBOONS COMBINED THEY ALL STINK

Come now, guy. Why say things like this?

sithwell:

Come now, guy. Why say things like this?

Do not mind that silly Ghanaian living in SA. He is not a South African to be precise. Try to always ignore him. Do not say I didn't warn you!

all4naija: @ sithwell

Is this a thesis or what?

It looks like you just posted a whole economy handbook. Jeez. I don't have the time to read such a lengthy and boring economy comment that is so long as this one.

Thank you.

1. You can't tell that something is boring if you haven't read it. With respect, that's not a smart comment. What you clearly don't have time to read is something factual. When did facts ever entertain?

2. You aren't expected to read every single thing that's posted here. Numerous posts of yours, I haven't read. I am sure I am not the only one that hasn't read some of your posts. But there's no point in telling you that, because everyone here should know that some of their stuff will be read; and some will not. Read what captures your interest; and move along.

3. Anyway, the aim is to get rid of untruths; and not entertainment. Read it, don't read it - it was never directed at you. Augugust, the accountant, started the topic. This is his response; and it shouldn't bother you in any way.

4. If things like "Nigeria's economy is better than South Africa's" are plucked out of a tree, then facts are needed to expose the untruths. Whether this messes with your need to be entertained, I can't worry about.

Come now, All4Naija.

homerac7:

Make thunder fire that your mouth!

You idiotas know next to nothing about intricacies of African regional politics and instead of keeping quiet and learn from your betters who started it while you were in dark ages of apartheid, you dive headlong and get trounced again and again.

By the way, your president came here to beg. Accept the obvious fact or go and hang. mumu people.

Spoken like a true nostalgic "when we were once the giants of Africa" son of the soil. Holding on to old "intricacies" does not mean that you know anything about current "intricacies". Never mind future ones. BRICS membership requires that Africa rounds up all the loose herds roaming all over Africa This is what Zuma is doing. But of course, you don't see that. You see a begging president. The bigger picture for Zuma is longer than your ego right now. It's a pure foreign policy issue; and there's no begging involved. Only charm. And let's face it, GEJ has been charmed by the Zulu from Nkandla.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9480SN20130509?irpc=932

On 30 April 2013 members of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) who were conducting standing patrolling duties at Poppalin Ranch next to Malala Drift on Zimbabwe and RSA border, saw a suspicious group of people carrying boxes.

At seeing the soldiers they decided to run away. After warning shot fired, a box of cigarettes was dropped off and one of the suspects was arrested. The suspect, who was in possession of R13 780,00, tried in vain to bribe SANDF member offering him R13 000, 00 for his freedom.

The SANDF confiscated 1700 cartons of cigarettes to the value of R219 300.00. Each carton contains 10 packets of cigarettes. The suspect from Zimbabwe was handed over to the Musina South African Police Service (SAPS).