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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? (12662 Views)
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Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by InesQor(m): 8:10am On Apr 15, 2010 |
Enigma:LOL thanks bro. I was actually surprised that the violent nay-sayers had not yet arrived. Too many people have been indoctrinated with these things, they will think you're their enemy. You would have known what ** meant if it were you. . . you just talk like him, he also lives right there, and his surname also begins with ***. . . (I inferred that from a very old post of yours) ![]() |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by ayettymama(f): 8:10am On Apr 15, 2010 |
lolz i highly doubt theres anywhere in the bible that indicates the size a church should be but lets not forget the first church was catholic and they are generally very big no2 i dunno abt the churches u go to but my church is huuge and they still have smaller classes for people new to christ people that want to learn more abt christ etc, they have a huuuge youth church they have a weekly fellowship that has no more than 10members they have helplines and do visitations, they even have a prayer live (i think) they even have a scheme that ensures if any member is sick the church will be the first to know|! any church can implement systems to make sure the members are catered for in christ thats the whole point all these parlour room churches are soo not kool! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Enigma(m): 8:12am On Apr 15, 2010 |
Gotcha Inesqor, no not me this time. ![]() |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by wyt(m): 8:25am On Apr 15, 2010 |
i sugest we hav online bible discussion here in NL, let pick a date and time. what do you guys think? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Zikkyy(m): 8:27am On Apr 15, 2010 |
JeSoul: I guess i miss this part. I have to agree its much easier achieving this with a smaller group. I have one concern though; This approach will be effective if you live in an exclusive area in Victoria Island, Ikoyi or even Ikeja G.R.A where privacy is guaranteed. Let say you live in mushin and you have this small gathering for fellowship. Your neighbours observe and offers to join in, you accept and before you know it you hitting a membership size of say 100, what will be your reaction to such situation? Do you announce that the membership size is getting too large and achieving the original purpose will be difficult and propose a breakup into more clusters? If you do this, would you prefer you stick to your old friends (i.e founding members)? ![]() |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Enigma(m): 8:30am On Apr 15, 2010 |
ayettymama: Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by ayettymama(f): 8:37am On Apr 15, 2010 |
^^ so what happened?? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by sharpman1(m): 9:03am On Apr 15, 2010 |
The bible is silent as to the size of the church. . . . . . . . .as long as a church is fulfilling it's purpose. . . . . . then there's nothing wrong. But there's no perfect church yet. . . . . . as ALL churches (big or small) have one issue or the other. I believe we should focus on KEY issues and not stuffs that are trivial. The issue should be. . . . . Is the church doing the right thing or not. . . . . . and not. . . . . Is the church too big or not. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by omofat: 9:58am On Apr 15, 2010 |
There is this story in the Bible where Jesus heals one man, the demon-possessed dude. After he was healed, the man was going to follow Jesus. However, Jesus told him not to. "Go home to your family", he said to the man - (Mark 5:18). I wonder how many Church's today would turn back new "members/followers", and tell them to go somewhere else. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by elelem(m): 10:23am On Apr 15, 2010 |
The early church was God centered and they paid attention to the needs of the breathren but most churches now are pastors and reverend centered and they are forced to pay attention mostly to the needs of the pastors and their family |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by kushe: 11:09am On Apr 15, 2010 |
i havent heard of one pastor putting a gun to anyone's head forcing them to attend service at a megachurch and yet people attend in their droves prolly cos they hav itching ears or maybe our Big GOd doesnt necessarily dwell in only small temples. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by KunleOshob(m): 11:21am On Apr 15, 2010 |
elelem: This captures the fraud in the established churches we have today, the church truly needs to return to christ! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by FaLeroy: 11:50am On Apr 15, 2010 |
I guess each side has a point. but then again, only God gives increase after Paul has planted and Apollos watered. Do we tell God no, this is too large? It all comes down to how the congregation is managed. I believe though that is better to have a nucleus within each cell. the getting lost in the crowd problem is for those who go to church on Sundays only. But most churches have midweek services, faith clinics, bible study etc. i remember going for Bible study on a Tuesday evening and all we discussed was lack of reverence for God. How we chew gum in church, reply messages etc. But these days, most churches have smaller parishes etc to make it easier to monitor the congregation. on the other hand we have quite a few, who have, for reasons even they may not understand, decided there's no pastor like them so outside their immediate sphere of influence, the congregation have no other church in oyo or kwara because the pastor isn't there Each christian needs to pick what's best for him/her and not be caaried a way by general opinion or doctrine |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Analytical(m): 11:57am On Apr 15, 2010 |
Folks, Just to make some quick observations: The scriptures made it clear that the early church not only met from house to house (smaller groups), they actually also met in large congregations using upper rooms (more like halls in the upper floor of buildings), Solomon’s Porch (a large space within the outer court of the temple) that can take a large gathering etc. They all couldn’t have been living in Solomon’s Porch! Acts 2: 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved. Acts 5 11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things 12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. 14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) 42 And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they kept right on teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ. As the number grew so did their needs and they continued to meet as a congregation and from house to house: Acts 6 1 Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food. 2 So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables. 3 "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. Then entered Stephen and the other deacons selected to take charge of the daily administration of needs etc. There is nothing wrong in coming together as large congregation but care must also be taken that no one is neglected by also meeting from house to house and in smaller groups. This was what the early church did. Check the Church at Corinth below and notice how distinction is made between when they come together as congregation and when they are in their houses: 1 Cor 11 18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. The early church was not a perfect one, just as ours is also not a perfect one. They had their own Annanais and Saphirra etc Even in the midst of the 12 small group close to Jesus, there was a Judas 'The Betrayer' Iscariot, a Peter 'The Denier' Simon and a Thomas 'The Doubter' Didymus! Acts 6 sounds so familiar, especially when the church is growing, hence the wisdom in appointing deacons who attend to the needs of the congregation. JeSoul and all who love His appearing, God bless you richly. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by alextywo(m): 12:25pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
[color=#000099][/color]it is a pity dt church founders are doing the 2ndary instead of primary purpose of da church as stated in psalm 28:18-20 |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 1:39pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Spot on! @Analytical |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:46pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
@Analytical, Good job. We need more of your pin point analysis especially in the NL Christian thread. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by sharpman1(m): 3:42pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Analytical: Wonderful!!!
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Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 3:51pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
@Poster: Honestly I agree with the guy you quoted. I believe that the church is really who you are on the inside and the congregation is that of a group of people with the same or similar ideas to occasionally gather to worship. The church is not the building with the collection plates and "building funds" aka "Pastor's Payroll". If it only takes 2-5 people to worship its fine and if it is just you either way its absolutely fine as what really matters is your INDIVIDUAL CONNECTION WITH GOD. Bottom line. The bible is only but a collection of ancient opinions and testaments (some myths) however the underlining morals are what people should live by: "love God, yourself, your family, your friends and of course even your foes". Have a clean heart. The bible is not to be taken as literal in terms of word for word as I stated before it is a COLLECTION and has been remixed. I am a PERSONAL testament to this. I have not yet stepped into a church to worship, I have prayed and have been blessed soooo much. Times where I have given up and no pastor, no cathedral/ building was necessary. I prayed IN MY HOME. and had conversations with just my mother and step father and recieved my blessing from the king of kings. I don't believe in religion and God loves me NO LESS. . .FACT. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by NIGboi(m): 3:59pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
i think analyticals post is straight to the point. it's actually like the best i've seen so far. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by toshmann(m): 4:41pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
all hail analyticaL ![]() ![]() my 2 cents xtianity is in the individual. the bible is the final 'constitution' of the xtians. big church, small church= another irrelevant distraction to God's work. another avenue to plant discord. there is no gathering of human beings in this world where we can't find enough criticism to damn it. if big churches are eliminated and only small churches survive, there will be enoughgrounds for criticism of the small churches. enough for advocates of big churches to reign supreme. as a xtian, just go to church, learn about God and relax. remember, some pastors may err in the sight of God, but that shouldnt stop true believers from faithfully worshipping their God. even when God was angry with Eli, he still favoured little samuel who was under Eli's tutelage ![]() |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by dupsytosh(f): 5:07pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
I dnt think there's anytn wrong in large congregation if they also focus on smaller units dat allows close knit fellowship. u need pastors/decons 2 act as a spiritual metor,help nd advice u smtms. bt as av bin pointed out, u go 2 church on sunday hear d sermon, read d bible passage called out by d pastor nd dats d end , no questns. Even d weekly bible study is more of preaching dan study, only d pastor studies nd d congregation just listens nd open Bible, only differnce is u gt 2 ask questns, nd dats y u need a sub-unit dat come 2geda 2 study, fellowship nd share d word. growing up as a xtian,I neva knew hw 2 study d bible on my own, I can read d bible,recite memory verses bt dats nt a substitute 4 bible study, Until I started attendn a fellowship (nt a Church) were all dat is done is just study d bible. d fellowship is divided into smaller groups of nt more dan 15 ppl, no preachn, we could study just one book in a year or more, dependn . u are given passages 2 read daily, askd some thought provoking questions dat will make u really study d bible 2 get answers, nd d following week, evrybody come around 2 share wat dey av learnt, nt 2 argue their point bt sharing different views as d Holy Spirit leads. am nt saying its a perfect gathering bt its small fellowships like dis dat allow personal spiritual grwth nd nt wat u r spoon fed by ur pastor aolne, a baby cant depend on milk alone as its growing.its like being taught hw 2 fish nd nt just given a fish. most ppl in a big church witout functioning sub-groups dnt know d Bible apart 4rm wat d Pastor says,am nt sayn wat d pastor said is wrong bt there's notin like a personal encounter wit God durin bible study, nd dats y after preachn 2 d multitude Jesus has a fellowship wit d disciples nd also goes smwhere 2 be alone wit God. IMO As xtians we need a personal fellowship wit God (quiet time),a small group where u can share views nd ideas nd av fellowship (as d Bible says iron sharpns iron), nd a church where u can listen 2 messages sent from God tru his annoited man who wuld also stand as a spiritual mentor - cos we all need one. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by KunleOshob(m): 5:13pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
OLAADEGBU: You ought to read his analysis on the tithing scam, i am sure you would appreciate his "pin point" analytical skills better. ![]() |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by toshmann(m): 5:16pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
give us the link to the tithe analysis |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 5:21pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
@ InesQor, please you made the below comments in one of the pages on this threads. Can you provide scriptures to back the statements in bold. Thanks. The unsaved are meant to be reached OUTSIDE the church, not brought into church to increase attendance, and then cajoled with an altar call and threatened with hell fire into making a decision, and then told to keep paying 10% of their income to guarantee their continuity in God. It's putting the cart before the horse. I pity the horse, I guess. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by kushe: 5:28pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Enigma: |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 5:32pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Quote from: KunleOshob on April 12, 2010, 04:44 PM The large size of churches we have today actually don't have any scriptural basis, however i would not condem it as wrong but true fellowship is lacking in churches of such large size. In the early churches they used to share meals, there was always feasting which formed an essential part of the fellowship but today it is completely missing except for the occassional holy communion were tiny rations of bread and "wine"[as opposed to full meals] are given out in observation of Jesus commandment. The mordern church as tried to re-enact the close knit fellowship which the early church had through house fellowships and house cells but the sharing of meals is mostly missing in these fellowships and some of them still collect "offerings" which they re-mit to the church for what ever purpose. But large congregations [not churches] are not entirely unscriptural as Jesus used to have several open air sermons in which thousands were recorded to attend. A very obvious example was when Jesus fed 5,000 men after one of his sermons. In summary i won't condenm large church congregations as long as they provide a platform for true fellowship, but then again large congregations are unnecessary as i don't see any benefit in it for the congregation themselves apart from the intituitional church that stands to make more money from a larger congregation. @ Kunle in the light of the scripture provided by Analytical below, please could you explain your comments in bold. It does appears the "modern" church approach is definately scriptural. I think the offering issue is very secondary most house groups are not in the habit of collecting money, and you rightly used "some" in your analysis, so lets leave the offetory issue out. 1 Cor 11 18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by kushe: 5:46pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
i am extremely new here and i doubt my occasional talkless of regular visits but to the anti popular pastor pundits.what if some of us love our pastors and their mammoth ministries.what if we enjoy being fleeced monthly in the way of tithes.what if we still have a relationship with God despite the false doctrine tags of our senior pastors.what if salvation was a very simple solution to a complex problem only for the devil to step into our systems thereby creating sects and religious bodies. how do u treat your spouse,the elderly,the less privileged,your kids,fellow commuters in traffic,the tired but working checkout lady at tesco's.christians can be terrible individually even the holiest of the holy ones and yet they pull others down.remove the small thing in your eye before you even notice your neighbor own. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 6:23pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Zikkyy: Lol, see this Zikky. When that time comes, all the options will be weighed and the most reasonable choice will be made. Analytical, long time! ![]() Analytical: Perhaps it got lost within the thread that the small-churchers are not against large meetings at all. Not at all. However the weekly gathering that we have come to call "church" is what we're saying the size should be as small and manageable as possible. There is plenty of room and examples of mass gatherings as we see Jesus and the apostles doing. And it not so much they must meet in a "house" but moreso the gathering of an intimate group. Hope this makes sense? Check the Church at Corinth below and notice how distinction is made between when they come together as congregation and when they are in their houses: I don't think the location or making a distinction between house and church is what Paul was going for here . . . but rather saying, "you can eat and drink to excess while at home alone, don't do it while in church" - and church being the operative word connoting "the gathering of believers", not insinuating the church cannot be at a house (as we indeed already know of several in the scriptures that were located at houses). I hope I didn't misunderstand you ![]() |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 6:27pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
away4real:Away4real, this is an easy question. And you'll have your answer if you can tell us who the bible says "church" is meant for. - was church in the scriptures the gathering of christians? (occasionally an outsider would come in) - or was church the gathering of all kinds of people? saved, unsaved, still deciding etc? Keep in mind the apostles taught at all kinds of locations as did Jesus - these were not "church" - and church being clearly shown as the gathering of believers to build each other up and serve each other in love. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 6:33pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
wyt:Isn't that what we're doing already? ![]() lasgidi4rv:2 good points in there. Of course my friends are christian - as should every christian have christian friends. Secondly, you're right the church is a good place to meet other believers (most of the time, cos these days ![]() Lastly, you should read through the thread as we've discussed small groups within large churches in detail. Godbless! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 6:40pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Sisterly, please you can help me with the definition of the church? My question is really a simple one, scriptural reference to that notion. I am trying to highlight something here and I hope we all can see it. Its the practicality or the rigidity of saying unbelievers are not wellcome in our church (gathering of the called out ones).ie, we should somehow have a clearly defined outside place where we can some how preach the good news to only the unconverted then afterwards allow them into our "gatherings of the called out ones". Is this really scriptural? I do understand the point you are making by asking for the definition but again is there a scriptural reference or is it just based on exposition. I really want to know if there was such a scriptural reference or if its really just an exposition of what ineqour thought church should be. So please help if there is one. |
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