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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? (12721 Views)
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Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 6:51pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Brotherly , there is no one verse that says "the church is for christians only", see 1 Cor 14: So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand[h]comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!" So here we readily see the[b] church [/b] was the gathering of believers. However, this is not to say an unbeliever is banned completely from going in as indeed we see the above. But it is worthy to note that this is a sharp contrast from today where most "churches" are an all-purpose social gathering spot for pretty much everyone. Cheers! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 7:06pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
JeSoul: Sisterly, thanks, i do totally agree with you and am sure many christains desire a church that is worthy of our lord. But I have long ago learnt the church will not be a perfect place until our lord comes, with that in mind I am always slow to speak when it comes to some matters. @ @ InesQor please if you still have any input please help, though Jesoul has explained clearly the rationale, so we really[b] cant [/b] say that the unsaved are meant to be reached outside the church. It would help if when issues like these are being discussed add ons like its all because of 10% or its because of money are ommitted, it irritates me as a christain. I am in no way saying that opinions should not be stated but then create a thread on the relationship between tithe and church numbers and bash there. Its wrong to always chip such comments in, for those that do not understand or not met the Lord it can be a put off and that is not what we want, is it? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Nobody: 7:15pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Analytical: Your post is as usual spot on! But it is imperative to say this . . . no everyone here i'm sure believes in fellowship together whether in a large or small congregation . . . however you shld also note one important thing in the verses you quoted, even though they met in large synagogues . . . one thing was not forgotten . . . fellowship from house to house! This is something that has virtually disappeared from our large empires today. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Asanni5: 7:21pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
Gbam. Deboskky hit on the head. Mega churches are unavoidable. However, are we saying in the bible days there no people who had 'a form Godliness, but denied the power thereof'? Are we opining that tares and wheat are not to grow together till the 'day of harvest'? If in the days of Jesus people like these existed, how much less in these days? I think we need to understudy some these mega churches to realise that the 'serious ones' are known. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 7:22pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
davidylan: I dont know about empires, so I will assume you mean the "churches" today. I thought it was stated severally that the house to hose fellowship is what the house groups/cells/house fellowship/bible study groups (whatever name it is called) is meant to achieve. Virtually all big church groups have smaller units, perhaps if you are in a place that has none, you can start one. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 8:05pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
away4real:Spoken like a wise man . @ @ InesQor please if you still have any input please help, though Jesoul has explained clearly the rationale, so we really[b] cant [/b] say that the unsaved are meant to be reached outside the church.Oh but we can Away. If we've established that the church is primarily and mostly for believers, and it will be rare that unbelievers will be in their midst - then InesQor is not wrong in saying "the unsaved are meant to be reached outside the church". Meant - being the operative word. Now if InesQor had said "the unsaved cannot or should not be reached inside of a church" then that will be wrong. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by InesQor(m): 10:46pm On Apr 15, 2010 |
I have been away from this thread, and Wow JeSoul accurately spoke / replied away4real on my behalf twice or thrice. Thanks sis. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Analytical(m): 8:45am On Apr 16, 2010 |
KunleOshob: @KunleOshob, I am throwing you a challenge! Please post the link to my analysis on any tithing thread (I deliberately refrained from them) for all to see. Just one post apart from this, which is merely a comment on another post, if my memory serves me right. Or you render an unreserved apology for your attempt at sarcasm. You know what? You don't have to be so critical (almost tending to outright insultive) of any and everyone who happens not to share your opinion on any issue (in various threads) and I am not speaking of myself. I speak to you in love and as a brother in Christ. Ordinarily, I wouldn't even comment on your post. So this is not an attack but a concern. Take heed bro! Cheers. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:15am On Apr 16, 2010 |
KunleOshob: toshmann: @KunleOshob, how long is it going to take you to locate analytical's tithe analysis as toshman requested? It's even more interesting that analytical has thrown in his challenge, will you respond as soon as possible? or remain an accuser of the brethren. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Analytical(m): 9:19am On Apr 16, 2010 |
@JeSoul, JeSoul: I have been around, mostly reading, but dropping a line once in a while! Hope you are cool? Keep loving the Lord. I quite understand the points made by everyone as I went through all th e inputs. Not, it's not lost. Mine was to reiterate that the early church met as large congregation and also from house to house. Moreso when some were saying the size of a church (note: believers not building) shouldn't be more than can meet in someone's house and citing it as the sole practice in the early church. That is not the complete truth. We will run into a problem when we try to put a figure on what the size should be. How 'small' is your small? However, the need for fellowship, intimacy, communion of believers, help etc is better met when the congregation is in smaller groups. Then you know each other truly and can meet each others' needs. I don't think the location or making a distinction between house and church is what Paul was going for here . . . but rather saying, "you can eat and drink to excess while at home alone, don't do it while in church" - and church being the operative word connoting "the gathering of believers", not insinuating the church cannot be at a house (as we indeed already know of several in the scriptures that were located at houses). It was when I read your comment I realized I probably gave that impression. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that the early believers actually gathered together as single congregation as well as met in their houses, weekly. Hope to shed more light on this . . . |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 9:22am On Apr 16, 2010 |
away4real: @ Kunle pls can you help throw more light on the question above. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Analytical(m): 9:33am On Apr 16, 2010 |
@Davidylan, davidylan: This is my point, David. However, I know of quite a lot of churches that do have vibrant house fellowships. When the motive is not self but the Lord and building up a people for the Lord, then people will not so much depart from the pattern. You know what I did when I moved into an area where there was no house fellowship? I approached the church leaders to have one located near me. We (about 7 or so) met Sunday evenings and had great fellowships. We could study the bible together, ask questions, pray (really pray) for each others mundane needs and help build each other up. These were people that were there when we had a baby, will come to the house to help my wife at home and all sundry things. We have such scattered all over the cities. My take is that the people that do not believe in any fellowship together, small or large, are definitely missing on some important experience of being part of the household of God. Hebrews 10:25 addressed that. While it doesn't mean they are not Christians, it does however mean they will be lonely! Let me draw an analogy here for some sport lovers. Consider your favourite team playing against your main rivals, say Arsenal vs Man U. Will you have the same experience watching the game: 1) alone in your bedroom in front of TV? 2) with a group of friends (say 8 ) in a friend's sitting-room or 3) being in the supporters stand in the stadium with 40,000 other fans at the Emirates Stadium? Think about it! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 9:38am On Apr 16, 2010 |
JeSoul: Sis, okay point taken, but I still have this question then "how and where do we reach the unsaved?". Lets note that if for example me, you and Kunle meet to go evangelising (then we the "church", ie people not building) are going to be in some way "fellowshiping" or let me use a less contentious word "talking" with the unbeliever, in my opinion thats the church meeting. My point being then that the presence of the unconverted has nothing really to do with the church or our fellowships, their presence does nothing to hinder or dilute our gathering, for point of emphasis their presence does not turn my fellowship with you and Kunle to a social gathering, it does not. So why then are we somehow concerned that there are many of the unconverted in the big church gatherings, It does not make those gatherings in any way a club or social gathering. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by JeSoul(f): 3:08pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
Analytical:I am well oh my brother. You should post more you know your entries are always of great value. I quite understand the points made by everyone as I went through all th e inputs. Not, it's not lost. Mine was to reiterate that the early church met as large congregation and also from house to house. Moreso when some were saying the size of a church (note: believers not building) shouldn't be more than can meet in someone's house and citing it as the sole practice in the early church. That is not the complete truth . . . Awesome, thanks for highlighting that. I guess we weren't consistently stressing that. Thanks! away4real:my brother, I think now we're getting too technical. Jesus said "go out and make disciples". We are witnessing every second to the people we're with at work, at school, at the grocery store, even here online by our words and actions. "Reaching the lost" does not have to take on the modern connotation of an organized group of people, heading out to the street to hand out tracts - and just because they are a group of christians - together - does not mean they are having "church" at that very moment. I hope this makes sense? My point being then that the presence of the unconverted has nothing really to do with the church or our fellowships, their presence does nothing to hinder or dilute our gathering, for point of emphasis their presence does not turn my fellowship with you and Kunle to a social gathering, it does not. So why then are we somehow concerned that there are many of the unconverted in the big church gatherings, It does not make those gatherings in any way a club or social gathering.Several points in there. From the chapter in 1 Corinthians 14, we readily see that a gathering of "church" is a group of believers - an occasionally an unbeliever might come in curious ^this is very very different for a regular church goer, that hears the gospel(hopefully) every sunday, but yet remains unchanged, unsaved, but continues to participate in the religious ritual of "going to church". What purpose does that serve to the body of Christ? or to the unsaved man? Rev 3:14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. I know your deeds, that[b] you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth[/b] We see how God feels about those who are lukewarm, aka the church goer who has not committed himself to Christ but yet maintains an outward form of righteousness by "going to church". Furthermore, the chances are high that that church he is attending does NOT preach the unadulterated gospel of Christ. When Jesus spoke - people had 2 reactions to Him, they turned to Him or they turned away from Him. If the true gospel is being preached, they will either be convicted and turn to God, or be angry (just like the crowds Jesus spoke to) and walk away. Not just sit on the fence. Anyways I don talk tire Godbless! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by away4real(m): 8:47am On Apr 17, 2010 |
JeSoul: Sis, thanks again as a final input, i think we need to be careful on how we perceive this concept of "modern connotation", this model of going out in 2's or 3's was introduced by Jesus, see Luke 10 below. It is a very scriptural practise through out the NT. In summary my take is that issues like "mega church" where the unconverted should be reached are really non-issues a distraction, a close look on most practises of the so-called modern church suggest they have scriptural leanings. God bless you richly. Luke 10: 1. After this the Lord appointed seventy-twoa others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Joagbaje(m): 10:45pm On Apr 18, 2010 |
I have not read all the posts , but heres is my contribution. Having a Mega church is a sign of grace and ability. Biblically , God use people according to their abilities. The size of a man's crowd is a sign of ability and should be commended rather than condemned. If your ability is fifty , no matter how much you try, you cant have more than fifty. Until grace and ability increase. God is a God of increase. He commeds the man that increased his talents. God gives leadership to people according to their abilities. Moses gave leadrship to people bases on their abilities Exodus 18:25 And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. .It is based on the grace of leadership. To condemn a church or a man of God for having large crowd is unreasonable. How can a man condemn what God has approved? |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Zikkyy(m): 10:19am On Apr 19, 2010 |
Joagbaje: What talent? fleecing the flocks abi? Joagbaje: Size is not everything. In this case, its the quality of the congregation that matters to the Almighty, not the number of people in church. We can begin to talk about size and ability after you make christians out of the members. You will be correct if the focus is revenue generation. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Shaha: 12:40pm On Apr 19, 2010 |
Why is it a problem when some churches grow and others do not, Jesus had twelve disciples; sometimes he had a gathjering of Above 50 men excluding children and women; sometimes Ten cities will run to hear him talk, I think it s not about the numbers but about what God has called you to do!!!!! |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Asanni5: 7:01pm On Apr 19, 2010 |
Size is not everything. In this case, its the quality of the congregation that matters to the Almighty, not the number of people in church. We can begin to talk about size and ability after you make christians out of the members. You will be correct if the focus is revenue generation. [quote][/quote] I think we are mixing followership and discipleship together. Jesus commanded great followership but few disciples. Remember in John 6, the bible records that after a hard sermon many of His disciples left Him, i want to believe followers, because the 'real' disciples stayed for the word of life. In Hebrews 4v2, it recorded that several heard word but did not profit some for lack of faith, so in every congregration, there are disciples for the word of life and followers in search of miracles. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by chichiwill: 8:53pm On Apr 19, 2010 |
e no matter how big or large church dey, as far as dem dey go there to praise and worship God. but di reason why some people dey say e no too good na because nowadays church don become money matter, and buisness. people dey start church to gain popularity and get fast money. but the Bible no take say na only certain amount fit correct for Church, |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by Misoki(m): 4:57pm On Aug 24, 2010 |
I think no problem with having large churches. We have to pray that the churches grow larger and larger for the glory of God! I agree that WITHOUT these small small groups there can be a problem of brotherly love in a big church AS WELL AS in a small church. We can not stop evangelizing in order to maintain small churches! I think most of the large churches have the system of cell groups or house churches where members know each other, pray,help,discuss, visit, burry each other, eat together, and various practices of brotherly love. These cell groups or home churches are composed of a limited number of members. They meet during the weekdays near their homes on certain days as arranged by the church leadership. On Sundays all members of these home churches do meet together in the large church. And so the large church runs smoothly. |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by ladyg2(f): 6:05am On Mar 20, 2011 |
soooo, are u saying that we should start stopping people from coming to church just because 'a church should be small?' |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by wetu: 5:02pm On Mar 20, 2011 |
There is nothing biblical or unbiblical about a mega-church. The main thing is that those churches usually grow from the founder's ambition to build his own little kingdom instead of following the call of the ministry: Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; It is the founder's motivation that leads to growth in numbers and not much spiritually (through worldly attractions). That motivation is driven by pride. Otherwise the pastor could develop other pastors and other members will attend at a more local church. But the pastor is too proud of his large congregation. The message is so watered down that other members cannot grow spiritually to a level where they can also pastor. Pastor dies and son takes over and the people keep coming to listen to their idol's son, |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by MsSophista(f): 1:23pm On May 31, 2011 |
I think it really depends upon the church itself. I do attend a mega church in Dallas, Texas---The Potters House. I have also attended smaller churches when I resided in another city. Truthfully, I feel like my mega church has more of a connected, loving feeling than the smaller church. Yes, there are preachers draining people of their last dollar EVERYWHERE. On the other hand, I don't give above my tithes unless I am moved by God concerning the amount. Meaning, I don't give by guilt or by the compulsion or pressure of man; I give because I love the Lord and directs me. The good thing about my church is that Bishop TD Jakes and the church ministries, teaches and inspires us to use our talents and gifts to bring more economic to our lives. Meaning he believes in helping us in every area of our lives. The knowledge---spiritual, economic, business, relationship,etc-he has and imparts to us is IMPECCABLE AND PRACTICAL. My life has not been the same!!! Now, concerning how big a church should be, If a church restricted itself to 500 members then where would the 501, 503, 700th member go? Would they be directed to a place where they are not fed or cared for properly? The thing that helps staying connected for me is getting involved. We are not supposed to sit at church every week but we are equipped to do the work of the ministry, Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. Ephesians 4:11-12[b][/b] |
Re: Are Large/Mega-churches Biblical? How Large Is A Church Supposed To Be? by MsSophista(f): 1:30pm On May 31, 2011 |
@away4real So here we readily see the church was the gathering of believers. However, this is not to say an unbeliever is banned completely from going in as indeed we see the above. But it is worthy to note that this is a sharp contrast from today where most "churches" are an all-purpose social gathering spot for pretty much everyone. Cheers! Yes, I agree the churches are struggling with being holy and righteous. They seemed to be overpowered by worldiness. I am sometimes appalled to see what women wear, I believe we should come as we are but as long as it doesn't hinder another. It doesn't take much for a woman to cover her breast and if she doesn't have something we have a clothing bank at our church. Being that the church is made up of members, each member should respectfully acknowledge a person in the above instance, reinforcing what the Bishop or Pastor preachers and God's Word. For some reason we are afraid to teach people the proper way. If I'm doing something wrong I WANT SOMEONE TO TELL ME |
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