KA24DETT:

If the Pastors spend half the time they spend preaching about tithes and offerings to the congregagtion on the sins of lying and stealing, nigeria would be a better place. How can a local government chairman or a senator or a governor expect to receive blessings when he channels all the state allocation to his private account. All the prophet in the bible were never loved by the rulers of the day, some were jailed, some were also killed for saying the truth and warning the leaders about the consequences of their action. I have never seen or heard Adeboye telling all the senators or local governement chairman that come to his church that they will die from all the evils they do with the state allocation. If he wants to do the right thing, he should go as far as telling all his pastors that they shouldnt receive any tithes from any political appointee because that money should be used to develop the city or country. Nope, he wont say that cus thats bad for business.
Its about time all these pastors get off the " pay your tithe or u will die" bandwagon cus honestly, God does not give a poo if u pay tithe or not. The pastors should be telling all our politician about the consequences of their action and how they will burn and rot in hell for their actions on our community and our country cus i know all these politicians do go to church.
The instruction of people coming in the front of the church so that everybody would know u pay your tithe is wrong but a very good psychological and business decision. It makes the giver feel good and special and makes the individual not giving feel like he does not belong. I dont know why u would want anyone to know u are paying tithes, its between u and God. Why the show., its all business . The US played the same "fear" game during the soviet war, do u notice that all the holllywood movies allways show the US victorious against Russia, its all a propaganda,. it makes the viewer and the rest of the world belieive that the US is better even though they are.
Its about time we develop maturely as an individual and realize that God only cares about our heart and not our offerings. Its not about the money, u give and u dont, its all up to u but never ever believe that u get special blessing bcus u give. U get blessing from your actions during the week and after the church and the positive impact u create on peoples life, thats what GOD looks at.

God bless you my brother for your post above, a lot of our people are in bondage and some have no intention of getting out of it. Your post is a refreshing take on what some of us have been trying to point out over time.

I don't have any problem with freewill offering or giving, I have a huge problem with people using fear to extort money from other people, it's the new "sale of indulgence"

Mad_Max:

Awwww. Look at him 'preaching'. How quaint and adorable.

It is the preaching of the glorious gospel that can save your soul from hell.  Don't let the hypocrites who let you down determine your destiny.

Kia, I don miss small. So I opened this tithe thread at last to see if there's anything new but it's still the same ol dissatisfied sect.
Malachi 3v1-infinity. I no fit tear am for my Bible lai lai, that's the way to go. Wow, tithes and offerings for LIFE. I just love God's Word, it makes diviners mad and stingy tithe haters crazy livid and on the hyper.

^^^ Image really is everything!

ABEG MAKE UNA LEAVE RCCG ALONE AND MIND UR BUSINESS

SHWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

why do people always quarell about TITHING?? If you want to pay it go ahead if not do whatever you like. I think those who dont pay tithe feel within their hearts that they are not doing the right thing so they are looking for other people to bring into their rebellous group.How many of us condemn Government TAXATION the way we do TITHING?I am aware that some Countries take up to 40% of your income upfront.

how nasty can pple get?? calling a man of God names, who are u to judge in the first place, may God have mercy on u. and its nobody's business how churches collect their tithe ok,

tithing is fraud

tithing is fraud

idifu:

tithing is fraud

may the lord give u wisdom for ur ignorance in Jesus name

Tithing is not only a fraud but most tithe preachers are fraudsters, the rest are genuinely preaching it ignorantly. Either which neither of them is competent enough to lead the flock.

at unbelievers: y are u mad at the people that pay their tithe? its a personal thing/conviction,no matter how sweet the preachers tongue maybe.
the wisdom of man is foolishness in the sight of God.be warned God is not mocked"{for those dat misyarn}.paying ur tithe will not kill u.

Some of you just don't realize the seriousness of the tithing situation.

Those who tithe BECAUSE they believe they are OBLIGATED to by God's command have PUT THEMSELVES UNDER THE LAW; THEREFORE, THEY FALL FROM GRACE.

You CANNOT be both under the law and under grace.

Those who put themselves under the law WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW - ALL 600+ OF THEM!  Now, how many of you want to be judged by the law?

Jesus died on the cross so that we wouldn't have to be judged by the law.  KEEP PAYING YOUR TITHES AND IGNORE WHAT JESUS DID FOR YOU ON THE CROSS.

I am NOT saying you lose salvation by tithing, only that you fall from grace.

Pastors who teach and collect the tithe are either liars or ignorant.  BOTH are leading their sheep AWAY from The Lord by teaching a FALSE GOSPEL.

NO ONE can possibly believe that tithing on your income and giving it to the church is Biblical IF YOU HAVE STUDIED THE HOLY BIBLE.  You just can't come to that conclusion because NO WHERE in the Holy Bible does it say or even infer that anyone, at anytime, should tithe on their income, nor does it say a tithe should be taken to the church.

Those against the tithe continually give scripture.  Those who believe in tithing keep giving their opinions.

IS IT THAT HARD TO OPEN A BIBLE AND FIND SCRIPTURE TO BACK UP YOUR COMMENTS?

well i dont bliv tithe is compulsory, but i feel its necessary, the favor u get from God for dropping ur tithe is worth more than the tithe itself

Instead of tithing, why not GIVE from the heart?  Is giving from the heart a concept that is just too hard for people to understand?

The Biblical tithe is NOT giving, it is a payment.

I guess some of you need a structural rule to follow in your giving.  Those that have The Holy Spirit within them, AND USE IT, don't need the rules.  If they pray and seek guidance, The Spirit will lead them to give the amount GOD WANTS THEM TO GIVE.

WHY is that so hard to understand?

garyarnold:

Instead of tithing, why not GIVE from the heart?  Is giving from the heart a concept that is just too hard for people to understand?

The Biblical tithe is NOT giving, it is a payment.

I guess some of you need a structural rule to follow in your giving.  Those that have The Holy Spirit within them, AND USE IT, don't need the rules.  If they pray and seek guidance, The Spirit will lead them to give the amount GOD WANTS THEM TO GIVE.

WHY is that so hard to understand?

You don’t understand. Most people tithe because of the expected benefits (e.g. a 100 fold return or financial security). If you can convince them giving from the heart yield better returns, believe me a good number of people are likely to abandon tithing and adopt your proposed investment model.

Zikkyy said, "You don’t understand. Most people tithe because of the expected benefits (e.g. a 100 fold return or financial security)."

My reply is:  if what you say it true, then most people are tithing for the wrong reason and they have absolutely NO IDEA what the Bible teaches.  These people have absolutely NO heart in their giving, and are the MOST SELFISH INDIVIDUALS AROUND!  I can't believe anyone can fall for this type of false prosperity teaching!  Just shows how gullible people are.

IF you give to get back, you lose most of the blessings.  The REAL blessings come when you give to be giving, with absolutely no expectation of getting anything back.

garyarnold:

My reply is:  if what you say it true, then most people are tithing for the wrong reason and they have absolutely NO IDEA what the Bible teaches.  These people have absolutely NO heart in their giving, and are the MOST SELFISH INDIVIDUALS AROUND!  I can't believe anyone can fall for this type of false prosperity teaching!  Just shows how gullible people are.

IF you give to get back, you lose most of the blessings.  The REAL blessings come when you give to be giving, with absolutely no expectation of getting anything back.

Thats what i am talking about gary.

Most of those that claim tithe as a way of Christian life either benefits directly (being pastors or what have you) or have been brow beaten/indoctrinated into the practice "because that is how you open up God's blessings"

Some of them have show they can't read English comprehension too based on their posts here, I don't care what you do with your resources or if you want to continue to serve your "MOG" but we are OBLIGATED to educate those who are being SCAMMED.

if u think u r doing the righgt thing and the pastor is wrong y r u making a mountain out of a hill then? as a christain it is not optional to PAY your tithe. U dont USE THE WORD PAY IF SOMEONE IS NOT OWING U. i will like to ask u two questions 1. do u know the bible is the most correct and current book on planet earth today? 2. do u believe the bible? if ur ans is yes to both then i will like u to read carefully Malachi 3:8-11

and while u r reading take note of the tenses carefully too. in Malachi 3:8 God was asking a question in verse 9 He explained why Heked the question and in verse 10 God gave an instruction the word used there is "BRING" ye all the tithes, now if u r christain it means u should obey God by BRINGING ur tithes to His house. If u dont u r being rebellious and rebellion is as a sin of witch craft am sure must have seen that in ur bible that is if u have one. Whichever way God has told His MOG to direct His members is not for u to question. The MOG answers to God not u.

@Prettyeyes:

Who was God talking to in Malachi 3? hint - read the entire book of Malachi. You will find it was the priests (the same people you're supporting now) that God was calling thieves. But please don't believe me - read it for yourself

garyarnold:


Those against the tithe continually give scripture.  Those who believe in tithing keep giving opinions.

IS IT THAT HARD TO OPEN A BIBLE AND FIND SCRIPTURE TO BACK UP YOUR COMMENTS?

The above is the "meat" of the matter. Imagine the poster above asking if it could be possible the pastor is wrong? These are people who hear of Israels Idolatry in the Wilderness and wonder aloud why they did not believe God with all the manifestations. Yet they are much more idolatrous worshipping their pastors. Is it not the Bible that says "all men ARE liars" and that "none, not one, did He find righteous"? Is it not Jesus Himself who said "call no man teacher, call no man Rabbi, call no man Master; for you all are same and have only one teacher - the Christ"? Wasn't it so that EACH OF US COULD BE LED INDIVIDUALLY TO TRUTH DIRECTLY BY GOD HIMSELF that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit? So when you see someone saying "pastor cannot be wrong" yet having NOT ONE single Biblical backing except the misused and misunderstood Malachi, have you not seen idolatry?

And the false teachers love it - their purses are filled, they have worshipping acolytes who are happily deluded and they get the best of everything.

But Gods' day is coming when Jesus will say to some "Get away from me, you workers of iniquity. The acolytes will probably wish to stone Christ then

prettyeyes - You want to use Malachi 3:8-11.  Why not start with verse 7 instead of 8.  In verse 7 God said they weren't following HIS ORDINANCES (His commands).  Are YOU following those ordinances for the tithe?

Leviticus 27:30-33 - definition of The Lord's Tithe
Numbers 18 - the ordinances for The Lord's Tithe which God makes it VERY CLEAR to take His tithe to the Levites, FOREVER.

You quote Malachi without even knowing which ordinances God is talking about.  HOW CAN YOU PAY GOD'S TITHE IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW GOD'S DEFINITION AND ORDINANCES?

Here is how the definition of the word tithe has changed over the years.

DEFINITION OF THE WORD TITHE – from Strongs Hebrew Dictionary
A tenth, tenth part

That’s it.  The word tithe is a mathematical term and nothing else.  The word has nothing to do with God, giving to God, paying to God.  Therefore, when reading Genesis regarding Abraham and Jacob, the word tithe is a mathematical term only.

DEFINITION OF THE LORD’S TITHE – Leviticus 27:30-33
God, Himself, defined His tithe.  This is the ONLY tithe that God claimed “is the Lord’s.”
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

In other words, God defined His tithe as coming from ONLY crops and animals.

DEFINITION OF THE FESTIVAL TITHE – Deuteronomy 14:22-27
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
In verse 23 The Word adds, “the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks,” but notice, NOT a tenth of thy herds and flocks.

DEFINITION OF THE THREE-YEAR TITHE aka THE POOR TITHE – Deuteronomy 14:28-29
28At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates

MAN’S DEFINITION OF THE TITHE – from made-made dictionaries

MacMillan's Modern Dictionary - 1938 edition: Tithe - tenth part, or any small part, of produce, profits, or the like paid as a tax or as a voluntary contribution, esp. for religion or charitable use.

The American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition - 1994: Tithe - A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary - latest edition: Tithe - a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment.

As you can see, just since 1938 the definition has changed from a tenth part of produce or profits, to a tenth part of one's annual income, to a tenth part of something and all three definitions include something to do with the support of the church or a religious establishment.

NOW, TELL ME TITHE PAYERS - ARE YOU FOLLOWING GOD'S DEFINITION OF HIS TITHE, OR ARE YOU FOLLOWING MAN'S DEFINITION FOR HIS TITHE?

The ordinances that established the Levitical priesthood and the Lord's tithe are Numbers 18.  Numbers 18 was DISANNULLED according to Hebrews 7:5,12,18.

The actual robbing of God of the tithe was the priests stealing the portion of the tithe at the Temple that BELONGED TO THE LEVITES.  That is clear from Nehemiah 13.  The robbing God of the offerings was the priests offering the worse to God and keeping the best for themselves as shown in Malachi 1.

Tithe payers have NO scripture to back up tithing to the Christian Church.

garyarnold:

Tithe payers have NO scripture to back up tithing to the Christian Church.

It does not appear you know Scripture at all. If Christians have decided to give a tithe of their income for good reasons, where is the sin in that?

Its not a new format, It has been like that since, Its just that some of these new parishes has not been doing it. All the old RCCG use this format. Ur tithe is between you and God. Not for humans to see you . It is high time people server God in spirit and in truth Jare.

nuclearboy:

Who was God talking to in Malachi 3? hint - read the entire book of Malachi.

Arguments like this^^ are not helpful at all. Most of the passages on giving to support Christian ministry and the saints in the NT are taken from OT verses that speak directly to the Jews under Judaism. There are so many examples scattered in the epistles which we have identified in other threads. One should not be straining far too much on any OT text and yet missing the essential principle in them for the NT believer.

viaro - The reason for tithing will determine whether it is a sin or not.

If giving a tenth of one's income, from the heart, that would be just fine.

If a person believes that giving a tenth of their income IS commanded by God, that this tenth IS The Lord's Tithe, then they have sinned by being disobedient to God as God said to take His tithe to the Levites.

Anyone who tithes under obligation has put themselves under the law, have fallen from grace, and will be judged by the law.

garyarnold:

viaro - The reason for tithing will determine whether it is a sin or not.

If giving a tenth of one's income, from the heart, that would be just fine.

Gary, many times the way you try to pass across your message does not reflect the mellow tune you just posted above. There are people who argue against tithe and tithing at all costs - only when their arguments are challenged do they begin to cut corners here and there.

I know that some people preach giving in various faulty forms - it does not matter whether it is tithes, freewill offering, donations, alms, contributions of sorts, or whatever else. Some preach on these sorts of giving in a healthy manner to inspire the saints to give. Others (and there are many) preach giving in a very faulty manner - but just because these latter are performing this sad things does not mean therefore that you should assume that everyone who gives a tithe is not following God's Word.

It is time you try to change your outlook. The real problem is not tithes or tithing - rather, we should focus on what is seriously at stake here and not throw out the baby with the bath water! Let those who tithe from their own hearts do so as they may - and others who are not inclined to tithe should not do so if that is what they feel like. There is no need for all this confusion of pro-tithe vs anti-tithe arguments in the Body of Christ.

garyarnold:

If a person believes that giving a tenth of their income IS commanded by God, that this tenth IS The Lord's Tithe, then they have sinned by being disobedient to God as God said to take His tithe to the Levites.

They have not sinned - you're just making things up. However, you want a discussion to take a critical look at issues you never considered, I could open a thread just for the two of us to talk things over. Would you like that, Gary? Please let me know - I promise to be nice, trust me.

garyarnold:

Anyone who tithes under obligation has put themselves under the law, have fallen from grace, and will be judged by the law.

Nope. Anyone who tithes under "obligation" has not fallen from grace nor put themselves under the Law, nor would they be judged by the Law. The Law only speaks to those who are under it, not to those who were never given that Law by ratification. If therefore they are acting out of the principle inherent in the Law, they can do so - but they should do so with understanding and not bring themselves under a legalistic spirit of "obligation".

viaro - you do bring up some valid points for me to think about.  I DO agree that the gentiles were NEVER under the law to begin with, so you definitely have a valid point.

I think at this point I will take back my comments about falling from grace and putting oneself under the law.  I will have to do some hard thinking on this.  Thanks for coming back on these issues to me.

garyarnold - R u sure u read Numbers 18 very carefully? u said the lord's tithe is everything that passes under the rod, did u not see verse 16 or u dont have it in ur bible? u can redeem ur tithe with money now in this verse God said shekels but we dont use shekels anymore we use naira that is why we give in naira or any other currency with respect to that country. u made mention of ordinanceses and made refference to THE LEVITES. U said "God said to take His tithe to the Levites"now who is a levite? the Levites were selected by God to serve in His santuary as Priests. they dont farm or do anything but offer service to God on behalf of the people. Now who is a Pastor. A Pastor is a person called by God to offer service to Him then. A Pastor is a Priest. u seem to have a lot of dictionarices please kindly read the definition of the word PASTOR in the LONGMAN DICTIONARY. Nobody has doubt that Tithe is a tenth part of ur income the fact is that tithe is very scriptural if it is not, then; where did u get all the scriptures u have qouted so far. if u go to church at all Pay ur tithe dont be rebellious.

prettyeyes:

and while u r reading take note of the tenses carefully too. in Malachi 3:8 God was asking a question in verse 9 He explained why Heked the question and in verse 10 God gave an instruction the word used there is "BRING" ye all the tithes,  now if u r christain it means u should obey God by BRINGING your tithes to His house. If u dont u r being rebellious and rebellion is as a sin of witch craft am sure must have seen that in your bible that is if u have one. Whichever way God has told His MOG to direct His members is not for u to question. The MOG answers to God not u.

If you are really new on NL, you might want to study Malachi it seems before exhibiting gross ignorance of the Scripture you are quoting.

leadteam:

Its not a new format, It has been like that since, Its just that some of these new parishes has not been doing it. All the old RCCG use this format. your tithe is between you and God. Not for humans to see you . It is high time people server God in spirit and in truth Jare.


I prefer to do my giving without synchronization and anonymously and was unsure why they introduced this new format.

prettyeyes:

garyarnold - R u sure u read Numbers 18 very carefully? u said the lord's tithe is everything that passes under the rod, did u not see verse 16 or u dont have it in your bible? u can redeem your tithe with money now in this verse God said shekels but we dont use shekels anymore we use naira that is why we give in naira or any other currency with respect to that country. u made mention of ordinanceses and made refference to THE LEVITES. U said "God said to take His tithe to the Levites"now who is a levite? the Levites were selected by God to serve in His santuary as Priests. they dont farm or do anything but offer service to God on behalf of the people. Now who is a Pastor. A Pastor is a person called by God to offer service to Him then. A Pastor is a Priest. u seem to have a lot of dictionarices please kindly read the definition of the word PASTOR in the LONGMAN DICTIONARY. Nobody has doubt that Tithe is a tenth part of your income the fact is that tithe is very scriptural if it is not, then; where did u get all the scriptures u have qouted so far. if u go to church at all Pay your tithe dont be rebellious.

In Nigeria? come on man! Folks who can't get regular jobs these days in Nigeria calls themselves it seems, someone asked why folks don't question taxes, well in most countries, that's what is used to provide the Infrastructure and other services.