Sagamite:

She does not look U20 to you?

Go to her hometown and obtain her birth certificate (which you are allowed to) by cross checking her name from a list that has been there from the year she was born. Not sworn affidavits.

Go to the girls home states and obtain their birth certificates.

Oh yes, this one too na like 15 abi? LOL!!!!

Be decieving yourself there!

Hardly so!

For your information I taught Nigerian kids (referencing my original post regarding the present issue) and I now teach American kids in an American University (So I speak from experience). In both instances, I have had the opportunity to see and work with kids within the age bracket in question. While from time to time you find diminutive kids in this age range, most kids these days are bigger looking than their seventeen or eighteen years of age would indicate.

I do not think a picture is  a sufficient evidence for the charge you are labeling.

FBS:

And you think you know it all? Not everyone in NFF is corrupt?
Was it not in the same Germany that this happened?

1. E. German athletes & government sponsored cheating

How does a country of fewer than 17 million people double its Olympic output from 20 to 40 gold medals in just four years? Drugs, and plenty of 'em.

The East Germans became a sporting powerhouse in the 1970s and '80s, rivalling the much larger United States and Soviet Union. Thousands of East German athletes were given performance-enhancing steroids in an effort to prove East German superiority over the West. Many athletes thought they were simply taking vitamins.

The special pills worked. East Germans were a mighty force in amateur sport, particularly in the pool.

But with the medals and titles came the negative health side effects, such as liver cancer, organ damage, psychological defects, hormonal changes and infertility.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html

And your point is?

You want to compare the mentality of a communist state that would have rampant misdemeanors to modern day.

You can as well go and dig up activities of Kyrgyzstan and say you have evidence.

Or maybe this one?



or this?

FBS:

Go to the girls home states and obtain their birth certificates.

Can you even vouch the state can afford the paper to record it.

JIY:

Hardly so!

For your information I taught Nigerian kids (referencing my original post regarding the present issue) and I now teach American kids in an American University (So I speak from experience). In both instances, I have had the opportunity to see and work with kids within the age bracket in question. While from time to time you find diminutive kids in this age range, most kids these days are bigger looking than their seventeen or eighteen years of age would indicate.

I do not think a picture is  a sufficient evidence for the charge you are labeling.

I repeat my questions:

Nigerian kids are now bigger?

Bigger than Americans and English?

What are they eating that is causing such marvelous growth that makes them more adult-like than westerners and beating all nutritional logic?

Fertilizer?

JIY:

Hardly so!

For your information I taught Nigerian kids (referencing my original post regarding the present issue) and I now teach American kids in an American University (So I speak from experience). In both instances, I have had the opportunity to see and work with kids within the age bracket in question. While from time to time you find diminutive kids in this age range, most kids these days are bigger looking than their seventeen or eighteen years of age would indicate.

I do not think a picture is  a sufficient evidence for the charge you are labeling.

THIS IS PRECISELY MY POINT!!! Thanks for this post.

FBS:

THIS IS PRECISELY MY POINT!!! Thanks for this post.

Continue decieving yourself from what you know is the obvious.

This is as lame an argument as saying Nigerian politicians are not corrupt and looking at the material wealth (costing millions of dollars) they display is not valid. Then pointing to the material wealth of some foreign politician that is evaluated for due process frequently and investigated by police to ensure he is not thieving as proof that the Nigerian can not be looting.

Sagamite:

You must be fooling yourself.

Can you even vouch the state can afford the paper to record it.

Some arguments are too lame.

I won't result into calling names. Evidently you lack proper home training.

Back to the subject. So because you are behind a computer and a giant witch ball, you were able to say and present as a fact that these girls are over 20 simply by posting their pictures?
If there are any lame arguments here, then certainly they are yours.
Go to their home states and ask for their BCs until then, keep silent.

Bigger than Americans and English?

What are they eating that is causing such marvelous growth that makes them more adult-like than westerners and beating all nutritional logic?

Fertilizer?

I haven't contended that Nigerian kids are bigger than Americans or English or Vice Versa. With improved condition of living (and those--at least the majority-- who attend universities in Nigeria, on the average  come from a more privilege background than most) people get bigger. I suppose it's a fact you are aware of. No?

The point of my case is that I haven't noticed a size difference between Nigerian kids and Americans, having had the opportunity to teach both in tertiary institutions.

@ All,

What exactly is the issue here? From Seun and Co saying the girls cant beat the Americans to Prince etal calling his Folks Foolish(definitely not our GEJ) then more congratulatory messages, what do we have here again someone faceless persons (i think he's retarded) sayin Naija girls are over-aged just by looking at the picture. No evidence, no proof just guess from a short-sighted person that since they are nigerians, they cant be U-20 and look that way.

Am really pissed at some of you. This is Naija takin the centre stage for something positive and some of you are tryin to kill the fun.

Change your ways o, or else, i will hunt y'all down.Gbam!

JIY:

I haven't contended that Nigerian kids are bigger than Americans or English or Vice Versa. With improved condition of living (and those--at least the majority-- who attend universities in Nigeria, on the average  come from a more privilege background than most) people get bigger. I suppose it's a fact you are aware of. No?

The point of my case is that I haven't noticed a size difference between Nigerian kids and Americans, having had the opportunity to teach both in tertiary institutions.

You nailed yourself there (bolded).

Case closed!

No 1, there is no nutrition privilege kids in Nigeria can have that would make them bigger on average than Western kids. The Western kids have it more in abundance.

No 2, these women, I can GUARANTEE you, are not from a privilege breed that will be in universities you used as "your example". Think Teachers Training College, Nursing (this is a generous push) and Apprenticeship-until-they-do-party-for-freedom. And I will suppose they are the likeliest victims of delayed/stunted growth.

I suppose it's a fact you are aware of. No?

No 1, there is no nutrition privilege kids in Nigeria can have that would make them bigger on average than Western kids

Do you imply that most Nigerian kids that attend University are poor?

Do you deny my point that most who attend the university come from privilege backgrounds than most? If not, does not privilege infer improved condition of living?

Can you tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that Nigerians, despite improved conditions of living, would always (that's what I read from you) be smaller than Western kids?

No 2, these women, I can GUARANTEE you, are not from a privilege breed (that will be in universities, think Teachers Training College, Nursing and Apprenticeship). And I will suppose they are the likeliest victims of delayed/stunted growth.

On what evidence?

And say they come from poor families is that a sufficient reason to suppose that they would automatically be smaller than Americans?

Are trainee teachers and Nursing apprentices synonyms for poverty and stunted growth?

Who be this Sagamite sef?

I have an 19 year old cousin that looks bigger and older than her age. If you see her, you did probably think she's 30 and you guessed it most people actually think of her that way. Guy, people are different.

Sagamite:

Where has anyone called you names? Are you daft? Now that is name calling.

I know from Nigeria's history that we are age-cheats.

The SAcans that played against these particular women complained about, you guessed it, there ages.

When I decided to pull their pix out, I knew without a doubt that VIRTUALLY ALL (not some few exceptions) will not look their ages and look much older then the other competitors because they are a Nigerian age-grade team. The ones that look the age will be the exception, just like ANY Nigerian age-grade team.

And I knew there would be some few that will come up with lame arguments just to cover face and then later moan about all other rots in their country that is a result of the same unprincipled/fear-of-hunger mentality. We have such people defending the rotters of Nigeria based on lack of objectivity because they are from "my tribe/town".

That is my gigantic witch ball and it came to pass.

How can you even conceive this? There are several sportsmen in Nigeria that are Nigerians that have never cheated. You just have a way of blowing bad things about a few persons out of proportion.Anuofia

And then we turnaround and moan when our SE is thrashed silly and look passionless on the football pitch since they lack youthful exuberance to run tirelessly on the pitch like the opposition because you know why?

THEY LACK "YOUTH"! So they find it difficult to possess the exuberance that somes with it.

Apparently Ayila Yusuf is only 25 years old today. Yakubu is only 27.

Guess what?

They both played for Nigeria in age grade competitions.

Later, you will be moaning that Stanley Okoro is useless when he becomes your No 1 striker in 2 years time at his old age claiming 18.

Continue decieving yourselfs and open your mouths yakata when your country is collapsing due to such filth.

JIY:

Do you imply that most Nigerian kids that attend  University are poor?

Never said that.

Actually alluded that they will be the opposite. Majority will be upper tier of society, not the 70% that live on $1 a day.

JIY:

Do you deny my point that most who attend the university come from privilege backgrounds than most? If not, does not privilege infer improved condition of living?

Can you tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that Nigerians, despite improved conditions of living, would always (that's what I read from you) be smaller than Western kids?

What I said, in case it was not clear, is that: There is no explanation, based on logic, that kids with privilege in Nigeria would be on average bigger than Western kids. Most so-called priviledge kids in Nigeria, are upper-middle class on par in the West.

Wealth plays a key role in growth. There is NOTHING they are consuming or have access to that most of the average kids in the West do not have as standard.

Furthermore, Soccer is a sub-urban, upper-middle-class sports in the USA. So you would expect the kids that play it to hardly lack nutritionally to a point the are at a disadvantage to a "priviledged" Nigerian.

To sum up, your "priviledge" arguments do not explain the anomaly we are discussing here. Simples!

JIY:

On what evidence?

And say they come from poor families is that a sufficient reason to suppose that they would automatically be smaller than Americans?

Are trainee teachers and Nursing apprentices synonyms for poverty and stunted growth?

On the evidence of what is seen on ground in Nigeria and which you yourself argued:

JIY:

With improved condition of living (and those--at least the majority-- who attend universities in Nigeria, on the average  come from a more privilege background than most) people get bigger.

So we both agreed the under-priviledge are less likely to make up a substantial part of the Uni population? No?

They mostly end up in lines of work, tuition, careers that are unlikely to lead to riches aka Teachers training college etc. Not Mechanical engineering, Economics in OAU.

It seems you are not aware that nutrition plays SIGNIFICANT part in growth of youths. So third world countries citizens tend to not grow to the level westerners do. Hence countries like USA have a higher average height especially in youth (except when we are cheating at age-grade comps lying about youthfulness).

,

Continue decieving yourselfs and open your mouths yakata when your country is collapsing due to such filth.

Look Sagamite, perhaps you are right, who can say? But in real life (beyond Nairaland forum!) you don't just label accusations, you provide proof, hence the use of such terms as"beyond reasonable doubt."

In other places (I mean developed countries, as I'm sure you are aware) to label accusations like this without proof is nothing less than defamation or libel and you may be liable to being sued for that (nobody is going to sue here of course).

But one thing that  I have noticed from this forum and elsewhere is that Nigerians seems to find it difficult to see any good in whatever Nigeria does. Perhaps, we need a little show of faith, don't you think?

JIY:

Look Sagamite, perhaps you are right, who can say? But in real life (beyond Nairaland forum!) you don't just label accusations, you provide proof, hence the use of such terms as"beyond reasonable doubt."

In other places (I mean developed countries, as I'm sure you are aware) to label accusations like this without proof is nothing less than defamation or libel and you may be liable to being sued for that (nobody is going to sue here of course).

But one thing that  I have noticed from this forum and elsewhere is that Nigerians seems to find it difficult to see any good in whatever Nigeria does. Perhaps, we need a little show of faith, don't you think?

Let them come and sue me and prove me wrong.

I can guarantee you that out of the 23 players, circa 22 would have obtained documents of recent based on "sworn affidavits".

That is why Ayila is only 25 years old. And Stanley Okoro is 16.

In regards to Nigeria, I see good where there is good and I see bad where there is bad.

My religion is Objectivity and I follow it religiously. I am a Prophet in the Temple of Objectivity. I don't do Islam, I don't do Xtianity, I don't do Jesus, I don't do Mohammed.

It seems you are not aware that nutrition plays SIGNIFICANT part in growth of youths.

Go back to my posts and find your answer.

What I said, in case it was not clear, is that: There is no explanation, based on logic, that kids with privilege in Nigeria would be on average bigger than Western kids.

That has been your argument not mine.

Most so-called priviledge kids in Nigeria, are upper-middle class on par in the West.

[/quote]

It depends on your definition of privilege.

[quote]
Furthermore, Soccer is a sub-urban, upper-middle-class sports in the USA. So you would expect the kids that play it to hardly lack nutritionally to a point the are at a disadvantage to a "priviledged" Nigerian.

Really?!

To sum up, your "priviledge" arguments do not explain the anomaly we are discussing here

You see an anomaly not me, and the burden of proof that these girls are over age is still yours.

And while you are at it, you may want to touch on athlete development vis-a-vis bigness within the context of your allegation, of course.

JIY:

Go back to my posts and find your answer.

If you knew, then I am surprised you can raise nutrition as a defence for the superior maturital advantage our """""girls"""""" have over kids from well-off nations.

JIY:

That has been your argument not mine.

No doubt!

JIY:

It depends on your definition of privilege.

Feel free to define. You were the one that raised "privilege" as an argument and defence of why the Nigerian players look older.

JIY:

Really?!

Yep. Really.

JIY:

You see an anomaly not me, and the burden of proof that this girls are over age is still yours.

And while you are at it, you may want to touch on athlete development vis-a-vis bigness within the context of your allegation, of course.

No, the burden of proof is on them to prove me wrong because it is well known right from time, they also do not look like the average for the age group (which is a clue considering this applies to majority of them, not exceptions) and I surely have no access to their records in a country that hardly keeps any or makes it accessible if kept.

What athlete development? The one countries with advanced, cutting edge Athlete Development programmes lack?

Abeg, face it. They are old lying cheats!

@FBS

chief how far? sorry i signed out when u hailed me
how ur side?

@Sagamite

u don start your wahala? sharrap there my friend

did you see the birth certificates of the gurls?
no let me pour your hot water o

tkb417:

@Sagamite

u don start your wahala? sharrap there my friend

did you see the birth certificates of the gurls?
no let me pour your hot water o

Comot for road my friend. 

I will not celebrate such blatant, unrestrained fraud!

The day Nigeria produces a team that look like the Trinidad and Tobago one I posted in the last page, I will buy you stout and pepper soup.

Trinidad and Tobago



Nigcheatingria

Sagamite,

I used the word privilege in the context of the university to point out to you that my experience with freshmen university students in both Nigeria and the USA has not shown me any difference between Nigerians and Americans.

I never said Nigerians are bigger or that Americans are. They have looked the same to me. I have thus used the word privilege in reference to those who attend university in both countries, which does not imply high-upper class kids as you've construed it. To so construe the word would mean that those who attend  university in Nigeria come from upper-middle class solely, which, of course, is not true.

If we use logic to which you refer, one would think an athlete would on the average (your emphasized word) be likely to be bigger than a non-athlete. Therefore, a stark illiterate footballer is likely to grow bigger than a person who does not play any sport, much like a laborer develops a stronger and a bigger physique than a person who does not do such physical labor.

I believe my point is clear: no amount of assertions such as "guarantee" will support your case until you can provide concrete proof to back up your accusation and insinuation. If you don't have a proof then your assertions qualify as nothing more than innuendos and libel.

Sagamite:

Sagamite?

Sagamite is one of the most intelligent contributors on NL.

Sagamite is probably the most intelligent person you will ever be opportune to interact with in your lifetime. NO DOUBT!

So I suggest you go to church (if you are Xtian) on Sunday and thank God you have been priviledged today to engage with Sagamite.

Make sure you up your tithe to 60% to signify and match the magnitude of this gratitude.

@ Sagamite

I have avoided arguing issues since here especially when its borne out of myopic view like yours.

See as you dey advertise your ignorance for all to see. Really immature! You need to grow up, you might be intelligent; but you lack tact

Start engaging your brain and use averages rather than exceptions.

Another display of ignorance. When you start attacking persons rather than issues, you make a fool of yourself.How many teenagers have you met here in Nigeria? My cousin aint an exception, there are several persons male and female that appear older than their real ages just as we have older people that really appear young.

And where did I state that all do?

U saw where u copied this from, right? Go back and read it again!

Anuofia fun gbogbo awon ara abule e.

If only i can reach you, some horse whips will do you lots of good.

Nice win and good disclipline ,Wow!

JIY:

Sagamite,

I used the word privilege in the context of the university to point out to you that my experience with freshmen university students in both Nigeria and the USA has not shown me any difference between Nigerians and Americans.

I never said Nigerians are bigger or that Americans are. They have looked the same to me. I have thus used the word privilege in reference to those who attend university in both countries, which does not imply high-upper class kids as you've construed it. To so construe the word would mean that those who attend  university in Nigeria come from upper-middle class solely, which, of course, is not true.

No 1, I have no idea why you feel your sample from university, and corresponding privilege, apply as an argument since these girls are likely not to be of that mold.

No 2, close to or over 70% of Nigerians can not afford university education and do not attend universities. A large chunk of the people that attend university are from lower middle-class upwards and I am pretty sure they have not exhibited any accelerated growth that exceeds all developed countries, neither do they possess any nutritional advantage over developed countries kids for you to even have raised it as an argument.

JIY:

If we use logic to which you refer, one would think an athlete would on the average (your emphasized word) be likely to be bigger than a non-athlete. Therefore, a stark illiterate footballer is likely to grow bigger than a person who does not play any sport, much like a laborer develops a stronger and a bigger physique than a person who does not do such physical labor.

Bigger?

And also bigger than countries that on average dwarf the average in Nigeria.

For instance, the average measured height in USA for a male is 5ft 10 and 5ft 4 for females. The measured for Nigeria is 5ft 5 for males and 5ft 2 for females.

So you want to tell me that (remember we are agreeing to use logic here o), somehow everytime we pick 23 people from both countries at youth level competitions, by the miracle of Jesus Christ our Lord, the Nigerians somehow close and overcome the gaps of averages at a young age despite their inferior nutrition? Somehow we always lack any youthful look and have more ossified features synonymous with aging?

JIY:

I believe my point is clear: no amount of assertions such as "guarantee" will support your case until you can provide concrete proof to back up your accusation and insinuation. If you don't have a proof then your assertions qualify as nothing more than innuendos and libel.

Your denial does not eliminate ALL evidence, knowledge and awareness by you, majority of fellow Nigerians and a lot of others that we are CHEATS!

The difference is just how we respond to the fact. Majority celebrate irrespective, some select few refuse and raise the issue to see progress, as they do not see winning by unrestrained cheating as an achievement.

If you want proof, dig into the lives of these WOMEN and you will see that they finished secondary school at the age of 10-12 (based on their new passports that is).

Go and check the history of SE players, virtually all started playing professionally at 15. In UK, Germany and likes, you will be lucky to get into reserves at 19. I guess somehow, we are just more talented.

Stanley Okoro  played for his secondary school team (i.e. against SS3 boys) at the age of 11. He started playing in NPL at 13 (i.e. against 30 year olds) and banged in a goal every 2 games. Really?

Even Rooney, Schweinsteiger or Messi cannot claim that. You still need "proof"?

nope its nt funny.do u guys have 2 engage urselfs with insults, u're here wastn ur breath n dey[falconets]are there calculatn d amounts dey are goin 2 realise at d end of d day, dont u fink its bad,i mean wat u'r doing? [color=#006600][/color]

wat a man cant do a woman can do beta simple

Abayomin70:

wat a man cant do a woman can do beta simple

pls dont start.

No 1, I have no idea why you feel your sample from university, and corresponding privilege, apply as an argument since these girls are likely not to be of that mold.

These girls are youths in the age group of freshmen hence my argument, which was a response to an optimized picture of girls you claim to be overage without any evidence beside the picture and your argument that they look bigger than other girls in the competition. By the way you cannot present that as an evidence of your allegation in a legal court, and mind you, yours is a legal accusation.

Someone has since responded by posting pictures of Germans, who look even bigger than Nigerians. Are the Germans cheating too? One may also ask you about the Swedes, who are also bigger than the Nigerian girls.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my experience, Nigerian and American. But I'd believe you when you show me an actual evidence of your accusation. Anything less is calumny.

JIY:

These girls are youths in the age group of freshmen hence my argument, which was a response to an optimized picture of girls you claim to be overage without any evidence beside the picture and your argument that they look bigger than other girls in the competition. By the way you cannot present that as an evidence of your allegation in a legal court, and mind you, yours is a legal accusation.

Someone has since responded by posting pictures of Germans, who look even bigger than Nigerians. Are the Germans cheating too? One may also ask you about the Swedes, who are also bigger than the Nigerian girls.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my experience, Nigerian and American. But I'd believe you when you show me an actual evidence of your accusation. Anything less is calumny.

And I keep on telling you that (1) this WOMEN are not of the same breed on average with an average Nigerian university girl and will lack developmentally than the latter and (2) Even the average Nigerian university girl does not have any developmental advantage than will show they are bigger than the average US freshman.

So that raising of the point was not right.

We are not going to court. We are using logic, objectivity and awareness.

Can you explain:

Go and check the history of SE players, virtually all started playing professionally at 15. In UK, Germany and likes, you will be lucky to get into reserves at 19. I guess somehow, we are just more talented.

Stanley Okoro played for his secondary school team (i.e. against SS3 boys) at the age of 11. Somehow my records tell me that most 11 year old children are too small to compete with 17 year olds at this age. He started playing in NPL at 13 (i.e. against 30 year olds) and banged in a goal every 2 games.   Really?

Even Rooney, Schweinsteiger or Messi cannot claim that. You still need "proof"?

If we were going to court, their school records and lack of original birth cert will win me the case instantly.

If I bring witnesses like Amakasieka to point out the ones that enrolled for U-20 8 years ago as a 19 year old like Chukwudi and those that played in Principal's Cup as a 16 year old 12 years ago like Ajasa but yet claim 16 today, it will be case closed unless you can counter that there are some humans that suffer a rare condition called "age freeze".