Frumentum:


Your old stomping ground, 8SAI for the day pics. 5SAI, Ladysmith for the night pics.

Odunayaw:
Am I missing something? What 3X AR cal.
5.56×45 ,7.62×39 & ??

lionel4power:
we tend to avoid SA made products...

Frumentum:
SANDF various...

Hrmnn:
What looks suspiciously like a G6 discovered in Iraq.

giles14:
guys how possible is it to convert our Vickers n t55 MBT to combat support vehicle(eg russian bmpt). since our BMP 1 are very few in number.

CaptainStephen:
Its very remarkable, the unluckly fellow dont have to grumble when issued a gpmg for a route march.

patches689:


This.

AA guns of that vintage arent designed to be accurate, they are designed to fire in a "cone". That way all the operator has to focus on is getting the correct lead on his target, while all the pilot will see is tracer flying all over the place (and hopefully lose his cool). Its about area-denial more than anything.

On a side note, there have been a number of military weapons throughout history that have had a problem with being too accurate - in ww2 the Bren gun was too accurate for its role, the infamous German 88 mm was too accurate for AA and in WW1 the french 75mm feild gun was too accurate for strategic bombardment.

- Bren was too accurate because it didnt fire in a "cone" thus its suppression and area-denial was limited. Interestingly the Bren was so accurate that many were used as DMR's.
- the German 88 was too accurate for WW2 stragetic AA defence, and as such required constant fusing are ranging adjustments for area denial. Something that became problematic in the end of the war when gunners didnt get much training
- same deal with the French 75mm.

Frumentum:

That's the claim Remington made when they displayed the ss-77 at SHOT 2018. I'll look for their press release. In the meantime, I got the pics here, where again the claim is repeated:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/30/shot-2018-remingtons-guns-2018/

Frumentum:

Here's the story of how the DMG-5 came about:
Engineer interns at Denel are given a final project at the end of their internship to determine whether they're given an employment contract or not. The 3 guys were challenged to produce the lightest GPMG in the world without compromising on stability, reliability and accuracy, and they could use any existing GPMG as a base, or design a completely new one. They chose the SS-77 as a base and produced the DMG-5, which is 20% lighter and can take all modern sighting systems.
I'm told that the pre-production model is now at 8.2kg.

PICS: The Vektor SS-77 version imported into the US by Remington. It's chambered in .30-06 (7.62x63mm)!

kikuyu1:


Rapid fire AP death up to 3 k metres for MPRAPs,LAVs,APCs,softskins and dismounts on a simple rugged high mobility frame with good ground clearance. Whats not to like! Ideally it should be stabilised like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OrymIyWt9I

Unlike those terrorist FSA fvcuks in Syria using free mounted 23 mm on Toyotas! Btw the 23 mm has nearly 40 % more range and penetration than the US 20mm.

gottfried21:

More

Frumentum:
61mech, when last did you see the Portuguese 60mm Patmor?
The Recce candidates still use them during the minor tactics phase of BTC.

Frumentum:


N boer maak 'n plan!

MikeCZA:
Yup, we are not in Europe.


A qualitative advantage or edge must be maintained not only in terms of technology or equipment.

frumentius:
I will not question the choices people make; hell, I'm joining a think-tank in a year's time.
But there's something disturbing when an entire SF patrol (4 men) is lost to a PMC in operating in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The SANDF cannot compete with the salaries on offer, but we should do better to improve the Reserve system. In preparation for my impending exit, I've been looking at the Reserve Force and my god, is it an ossified system. It still operates as if conscription exists and doesn't incentivise Reserve Officers, in gainful employment and wanting to donate their time and skills.

Conclusion: fully-staffed reserve units across all 4 arms are possible, if the SANDF gets its act together!

PIC: SF patrol troop now lost to the SANDF

frumentius:


No I don't. It's just that those piddly PKs just look wrong and I haven't heard of you mounting anything beyond that. What's the point of buying the SDROW - which can handle anything from 5.56 to 20mm - just to put PKs on it?

Your RG-32s look impressive. Do you know your guys got Denel to so tailor it that it's now a variant on its own, the RG-32MN?
By the way, now that ICP incorporated your feed-back and made changes to the REVA FAV, are you buying more?

saengine:
Great video showing how the Rooivalk 20 mm canon is slaved to the helmet mounted sights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZjNjPtPeEs

andrewza:




That's a different type of recon. The Kat is rookat by fire. The mini bus style is the more covert style that the scout troops, pathfinder and Recce, s would do.


A platoon is 4 to 5. It does not mean all of them are in a convoy behind each other.

The 76mm gun means more ammo witch is useful behind the lines doing raids and it still packs enough punch to deal with most threats.



Do you expect us to fire 50 ATGMs. If we fighting a full on war our budget would get a boost. The worst case intervention right now is a civil war or some kind of intervention. None of our neighbors have any real armor in numbers. Really only the Angolan army has enough tanks and good enough tanks to warrant 50 ATGMs. They all so a close ally.


If we had to do a intervention like the French did in Mali the 76mm would be more than enough. The lighter ammo means more could be flown to front for example.

andrewza:




That's a different type of recon. The Kat is rookat by fire. The mini bus style is the more covert style that the scout troops, pathfinder and Recce, s would do.


A platoon is 4 to 5. It does not mean all of them are in a convoy behind each other.

The 76mm gun means more ammo witch is useful behind the lines doing raids and it still packs enough punch to deal with most threats.



Do you expect us to fire 50 ATGMs. If we fighting a full on war our budget would get a boost. The worst case intervention right now is a civil war or some kind of intervention. None of our neighbors have any real armor in numbers. Really only the Angolan army has enough tanks and good enough tanks to warrant 50 ATGMs. They all so a close ally.


If we had to do a intervention like the French did in Mali the 76mm would be more than enough. The lighter ammo means more could be flown to front for example.

Frumentum:

Is this not a great opportunity for Denel to resuscitate its partnership with General Dynamics and offer the G-7?
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18550/us-army-eyes-replacing-its-105mm-and-155mm-towed-howitzers-with-one-new-cannon
cc: MikeCZA

andrewza:



The issues with the m16 in Vietnam was due to cheapen manufacturing and training. The m4 is a short barreled m16 it is the. Both are still used along side each other. The American solders I have spoken to don't see issues with the ar15 platform has it is now.

MikeCZA:
The G-7 will go into production unlike the RG-41.

would be a mistake selling IP for products like the G-7.

Frumentum:
Rumour has it a Middle Eastern country is negotiating to buy the IP for yet another Denel product.
This time the RG-41. I was opposed to the RG-35 IP being sold to the UAE, because I felt there was a market for it that Denel could've pursued.
However, if this sale transpires I support it, as we've already chosen the Badger in this role and there were no prospective buyers of this platform. There's loads more IP Denel is sitting on which should be sold if there's no prospect of going into production.

Frumentum:
Exactly Mike. Ma Deuce has served well but it's time to retire.

kikuyu1:
I've just seen the Israeli Spear in action and I'm having a rethink! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OrlIIiZJJk

Fyi,the typical recoil force of a 120 mm mortar is up to `15 tonnes-how will the vehicle suspension absorb that force indefinitely? How many rounds will it fire before the suspension and frame fall apart? Go to 0.40. The man'f says
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/20140529.aspx

I'd be happier if it had supporting hydraulic arms to lift and stabilise the vehicle like other mobile arty systems.

frumentius:




1) DoD has only extracted a commitment from Treasury to look at the UN re-imbursement going back directly to the SANDF (rumour is they'll do it and the cut in real inflationary terms will be equal to this; so no change);

2) Kevin Wakefield at Armscor is trying to get SAFAIR and others to comply with UN tender regs, as Ethiopian Airlines has done spectacularly;

3) Despite the Brazilians painting one of the KC-390 in our colours, no way are we going for it - they tried to tie A-Darter funding to Denel participating in the technical phase, but that ship sailed when they wouldn't budge on the engine for our requirements;

4) There's a standing offer from the Yanks on the C-130J Super Herc (which we should accept if govt limits its ambition to a regional role);

5) If govt decides we play a continental role, the only heavy-lifters we can afford are only propfans from Ukraine and Russia (I myself am partial to Denel's industrial participation in the westernised AN-7X programme), with the following orbat:
a) Heavy Lift/air to air refuelling/transport/EW&C2;
b) Medium Lift/ Maritime/ Paratrooping/transport/E&C INT;
c) Light Lift / paratrooping/C2

6) I'm gonna get slaughtered for this: I can't see affording an Oryx replacement but an extensively modified and expensively improved Eastern bird, if new;
a) We could resuscitate our heavy chopper capability with 2nd hand EDA Chinooks;
b) Cheaply replace Oryx with EDA Black Hawks.

All in all, choppy seas ahead.

patches689:


Surely the KC-390 engines would be no-bueno for unpaved strips? Also, regardless of what we get the problem is not the aircraft but the funds for maintenance. By my understanding we have ~9 C-130's but only around 5 are operational. Surely replacing them is pointless if they will just end up with another maintenance backlog?

i reckon best bet would be something smaller to replace the CASA's over the short term followed by a C-130 replacement over the long term, betting on an economic recovery.

I understand that if the commitment were made the C-130's could still have an extended life-span.

I reckon something like the An-132D would be the best bet over the short term, something to shuttle troops to and fro, and at the same time give the SF the jumps they need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7442BTE54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOUIH4MoIW8

frumentius:


I'm more worried about the SAAF funding crunch. All our elite units utilising Hercs are suffering because the supply runs to the DRC are prioritised. The Pathfinders for example, have a set number of HAHO and HALO jumps they're supposed to do over a set period. They're doing half that. 4 Recce's 4.3 Commando, the Submarine Parachute Action Group (SPAG) also does half their alloted jumps.

The Air Force has tried to alleviate it by fixing the CASAs, which only benefits some roles within 4&5Recce, Parabats, and the STF.
4 Medical Battalion Gp only does 1 HAHO jump per year.

I honestly don't know how long we can continue with more and more demands/taskings on the military with less and less funding.

frumentius:


here you go. A Recce mate says they do it once or twice a year, depending on Herc availability.

forgive the poor pics.

frumentius:

The air-drop capability is there, across more platforms and environments than the Vlermuis and Jackals. More dismounts, better protection, better modularity, more armament, better C4SIR etc. One of the better RDRV platforms out there.

When they lost the Tapirs, Mambas were brought in as a replacement. And yes, they've been modified into the various roles that the Regiments' Commandos play. For example, the 2125m sniper shot in the DRC was off the roof of one of the Recces' special Mambas.

frumentius:


Oh dear, I fear we'll stray from the Freccia orbat and end up discussing mortars.
Odunayaw and kikuyu1 won't mind .

Nevertheless, I agree wholeheartedly on a LR 81mm. In fact, were I running Denel this is where I'd have focused, instead of the 60mm.
No, the Scorpion only caters for the 60 and 120mm.
The Recces' golf carts aren't bad, actually. They also have Geckos for logs and specially-adapted Mambas for MPV. None of which alleviates the lack of a Tapir. Unfortunately, in these tight fiscal times, the 3 vehicle types are regarded as fulfilling 3 roles by National Treasury:
1) Personnel - Hornet;
2) Logistics - Gecko;
3) Protected Mobility - Mamba.

Never mind that JOps constantly argues they cater for 2 roles and the 3rd has been defunded.

Anyhoo, I still have serious reservations about that Italian orbat. Our defence attache who attended an exercise wrote that the entire structure falls short of what they have on paper. Never mind the missing logs tail: apparently the dismounts were a 3rd of what they should be. The reconnaissance platoon was under-strength, etc, etc.
The sort of problems I'd expect from a military not given enough time to get ship-shape in a time of war.

Then again, I think our entire structure is ineffective and should be over-hauled, so maybe I'm not objective.