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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? (9812 Views)
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Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 9:05pm On Mar 21, 2011 |
Image123: How does God say this? Does he whisper in someone's ear or does he convene a council and dictate what should be in it? This was why I pointed out to you that what you need to do is to investigate how these people came to choose the particular books that they did rather than simply accepting the current list because that is what you're used to. Also, how can you say there are no significant truths in other books if you've not reviewed them in some way? You need to understand that you cannot declare knowledge on things that you're ignorant about. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Nobody: 9:18pm On Mar 21, 2011 |
If you read the article I posted, You won't be asking this question! He created it for the devil and his angels, For anyone who disobeys Him. Humans go there because they choose to serve Satan. Since you are his follower, You will live with him! http://www.divinerevelations.info/Documents/Prepare_to_meet_your_God/index.htm |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 9:32pm On Mar 21, 2011 |
cultey: The above makes no sense. Do you punish people eternally for not believing you exist? You also cannot even lump humans with Satan because many of those people do not worship Satan and they do not have reasons to believe that there is a God. Also, to show the huge inefficiency, even Satan while in heaven decided to leave God. What does that say about God and heaven? |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 9:45am On Mar 22, 2011 |
@thehomer So you class jails, community service and fines as humane punishment. One man's poison is another's meat anyway, some people may still see your preferences as cruel. Plus, what would you do if you were god enough to have knowledge that an offender's case was hopeless and that a fine will not repent him? Would you still fine him, or just let him be? Sorry i'll answer you in tiny bits, thank you |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:11am On Mar 22, 2011 |
@thehomer You say there're some things that should not be considered crime? There's an english word called 'STANDARD'. There are measurement standards, quality standards, safety standards etc. Look up God's standards. He's got standards, so you adjust to His standards. If there no standards, there'll be no order or sanity. Not every one likes to pay tax, not every one likes democracy, not every one likes to have his own wife, not every one wants to spend the same currency, or use the metre rule, or pay for electricity. There have to be standards and discipline. You either shape in or shape out(punishment). I don't 'regard' the quran, not because i already believe the Bible. i didn't always believe the Bible, but thank God i found it, and i'm satisfied with. I find all that i need there, that's why i don't worry to look outside. Most people who 'trust' in other books or no books(like in your case) are always peeping from time to time into the Bible, like there's something missing that they can't point, a sort of void. BTW, i know many who have read/studied/even loved other books but who later found the bible home. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:26am On Mar 22, 2011 |
Why don't you get it, i don't need to look around for anything. It's like a child who has all he needs, he's not going up and down tasting the neighbours' foods or something. There's no cause to, it's plain ridiculous IMO. By the way, i believe the Bible and it says the ONLY way to God is Jesus. i believe that and i have all that i need with Jesus. If you have truly read the Bible as you claimed, you'll have seen that. And you'll have seen the switch in approach from old testament to new testament. Maybe you should reread the Bible instead. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:32am On Mar 22, 2011 |
No they don't actually know this. They only think they do because they currently believe in the Bible.You're making a very poor god already. Who are you to assert what others know and don't know. They only think they know, but you know right? |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:55am On Mar 22, 2011 |
Fire, water and electricity are natural i.e physical, faith is spiritual. But they're all useful, and can be abused or misused. You say faith is not amenable to evidence? Faith is evidence itself(hebrews 11v1). PEOPLE testify daily in large numbers of the effect of faith. It's a lazy attitude to conclude that they are all deluded, this are people of whom some are your parents, or your parent's friends, or your teacher, or your colleague at work, or mate in school who's proven over time to be as good/brilliant as or even better than you are over terms and semesters. Maybe, just maybe they've operated in a realm you've not yet operated. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 11:18am On Mar 22, 2011 |
@thehomer How come you're still asking about how God said? you want to revel in sensational stuff ko? you want to hear me say God whispered it to me in a 12hour vision or something? i quoted it, how did you fail to see it? The Bible is God's Word. I quoted different parts saying 'God's Word will not pass away'. That's the most natural common 'litmus test'. God's Word cannot be hindered or limited by man. Nothing can happen on earth out of His control. i know that sentence may upset you, but it's the truth. You don't understand it because you don't see it in the right perspective. That's why i said earlier that there's bigger fish to fry, a grand scheme, that CAN be understood by meditating on and studying God's Word. i've read about the compilation of the Bible, the history and co. All were orchestrated by God, nothing balled out of His control or caught Him unawares. All things worked together for good like in the case of Joseph in the bible. I didn't say that there are no significant truths in the other books. i said there are no significant truths that were MISSING in the bible. If there are, seeing you are vast in these books, please point out just one or two new significant truths there, and the book you found it. thanks |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Nobody: 5:35pm On Mar 22, 2011 |
Image123: But that is just it. It is not the final version it is just the most popular version. Truth is not a popularity contest. Why can say that it was all overseen by God, and not the Roman emperor at the time? Also if God sanctioned the creation of the bible why not just create one fully formed whenever someone asks/prays for it? That would be a pretty consistent "miracle" as it would violate so many scientific principals? |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:19pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Image123: Yes. They're more humane than stoning people to death. Remember that some of what we're talking about are not even crimes and there are prisons and hospitals for those that cannot be rehabilitated. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:23pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Image123: Do you consider working on Saturday a crime? Do you think sex outside of marriage should be punishable by death? How about a change of religion? Do you think that should also be punishable by death? You never said why you do not believe the Qur'an unless you think believing in the Bible because you currently believe it is a good enough reason. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:28pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Image123: I'm not asking you to look around for anything, I'm simply pointing out to you that you have not given a good reason why someone who does not believe in your Bible the way you do should come to believe it. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:33pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Image123: I can assert this because they have not given good reasons to make that claim. Apart from the fact that people occasionally change religions and when they do, their answers to such questions also change. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:38pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Image123: Sorry but religious faith is not amenable to evidence. In fact, when the evidence is against such beliefs, some claim a stronger faith in disbelieving what is demonstrably true. Your appeal is quite interesting because you make some huge assumptions including my parents, their friends etc when you do not even know who I am. You need something better than your above statements to demonstrate that faith is worthy to be considered evidence of anything other than one person's hubris. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:48pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Image123: Do you not yet realize that you actually have to demonstrate why one should believe the Bible is actually God's word rather than just quoting random texts from it? So God decided to let his message be subjected to copies of copies of copies of translations of translations to be voted on? This is grossly inefficient and makes it subject to errors and corruption on so many levels. Since it seems you know God so well, why don't you ask him why he chose to do it this way? Could he not have devised another way? Image123: How do you decide what should be considered a "significant truth"? Let's see I think the fact that the earth is older than 10,000 years is quite significant so also the fact that stars are orders of magnitude more massive than the earth. These facts are available in astronomy textbooks yet are missing or simply wrong when mentioned in the Bible. Why is this so? |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Nobody: 6:52pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
;d |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Nobody: 6:55pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
thehomer: It says that He is holy!!! Besides He created and owns everything in this world, Why shouldn't He rule as He pleases? It's like saying that despite you are the head of your home, An outsider comes from nowhere and tells you that, You are not supposed to chastise your child for beating up someone in the streets! Because disobedience to your parents has become a norm for you, You think God will allow you to disobey Him and then forgive you in your rebellion?! Keep disobeying your Creator for your own doom, simple!!! Mind you, He'll forgive you if you are truly repentant of your sins! |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 8:49pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
cultey: One thing you need to understand is that once thinking beings are involved, then you are not free to do whatever you feel like doing. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 9:41pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
thehomer:Well i told you one man's poison is another's meat. Someone says "i'll rather die than marry so and so". Human choice vary. Your standards of humane or more humane are not the same with every other. Also, you are human, God's not. He makes the rule, if He calls it a crime, it is. Your opinion is just what it is, your opinion. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 9:52pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Does the Bible IN FULL consider working on saturdays a crime? Does the Bible in full consider fornication as punishable by death? Have you truly read the Bible or do i need to quote? Are you neglecting some part of scripture especially the new testament? I told you why i don't believe other books more than the Bible. I told you there's eternal life in the Bible, there's the answers to the major questions to the purpose of life, the history of man and of his Creator. I have clean potable water and its working fine for my health. I've seen the effect of polluted water on others, i've introduced them to cleaner water and seen dramatic positive change in their liveS, i'm not obliged to go take the polluted water to know more for myself. That's the christian story compared to any other way. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:10pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Why should you believe the Bible? Because it's the map to Heaven. There's more to life than time. Asides from the numerous benefits one can tap from belief in God here on earth, one has to plan for the future. The future is MOST important. The future is beyond the 70year old, 100year old mark. The future is after death, there's an eternity greater than 100years to live. Anyone who wants that future with God in Heaven has to yield/submit to God's choosing criteria. The Bible details that and equips any one who's interested. You can't assert that people don't know simply because some occasionally change religion. Atheists like you also occasionally change beliefs, do i assert that you don't know as well? Change is constant in earth, people change views on every matter on earth, it doesn't necessarily invalidate their former beliefs. There's an english word called 'deception'. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:37pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
@thehomer Faith IS NOT amenable to evidence. I agreed to that earlier. Faith itself is evidence, i quoted a scripture passage to that effect. To explain further in a way you may understand, faith is greater than evidence, above evidence. i'm trying to explain to you in a dimension you might understand, that's why i'm using some analogies. It's like 'determination'. Determination may not have an 'empirical value'. But through determination, a weak person might achieve something above evident expectation. A 1kg man may lift a load of 10kg through determination, not physics, or beat up a man weighing 50kg. I assume all your lineage are not atheists. Not all your colleagues at work, or superiors past or present are all atheists. The point is not whether i know you, but that some of this people that believe God are actually intelligent, honourable, sociable enough. It's not illiteracy or poverty or low IQ or lack of exposure that made them believe in God. They're not all senseless and ignorant, some have seen and known more than you before making wise decisions to serve God. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 10:52pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
Why should one believe that the Bible is God's Word? One, the Bible testifies that it is God's Word. The Bible continuously says it is God's Word. Jesus Christ said the Bible is God's Word. Other reasons to believe the Bible include the power of the Bible, its numerous fulfilled prophecies, its amazing preservation(it's the oldest yet most popular book on earth), it is above other books given it's insight into human nature, translations, it's continual freshness, it's inspiration and changing effect on human life regardless of status. God subjected His Word to human frailty and it passed. It's wonderful unity is an unparalled miracle. Human ideologies change from place to place, time to time and person to person. God used so many persons at various times(some thousands of years apart) and different places and countries to couple His Word. Humans are generally insatiable. Some other religious books claim to have dropped from Heaven to one man with minimal translations and councils. Do you believe those books? |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Image123(m): 11:17pm On Mar 23, 2011 |
@thehomer Now on 'significant truths', you've jumped rope here. Let me kindly lead you back. You were talking about other books that you felt should be in the Bible and are not included, remember? And you pointed me to some links you saw as useful, ring a bell? And i quoted some scriptures as 'litmus test', following? And then i said there are no significant truths that may be in THESE books that were missing from the Bible, or that could not be gotten through study and meditating on scriptures. Are you still here? The Bible is not a geology textbook, it is the map for man to Heaven, and the manual for man on earth. Everything necessary for man to get to Heaven is in it. Everything every man needs on earth to function well is in it. You do away with this manual, you have no guarantee/warranty. You spoil you spoil be that, hell beckons. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:46pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
Image123: Humane treatments are more preferable to non-humane ones or do you disagree with this statement? I'm sorry but your answer to this dilemma is actually terrible. I hope you realize that according to this reasoning, if God says for people to marry, they go and invade a town and forcefully seize the virgins, this command/rule would imply that this is the appropriate method for people to marry and those who deviate may be punished. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 6:48pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
Image123: If you go by this reasoning, then the Bible in full does not consider anything punishable by death yet people were killed some by God himself for some of these offences. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 7:52pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
Image123: This simply amounts to saying believe the Bible because it's written in the Bible which like I've said before, is unacceptable. Image123: Like I said before, I can because they have not given good enough reasons for their claim to knowledge. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 7:55pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
Image123: So, faith is evidence of what? And at the same time, it is above evidence? Image123: I never said that people who believe in God were unintelligent, dishonourable etc. The question is not what people you don't know have seen but what have you seen or understood that made you decide? |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 8:04pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
Image123: All the above claims are simply circular arguments that tell you nothing about the veracity of the claim you're making. Especially when you consider that the same argument can be made for other religious books are they all correct? Image123: Which prophesy? Image123: This appeal to popularity also tells you nothing about its veracity. The Qur'an is also popular does this make it true? Image123: If you accept the Bible as God's word, then it did not pass human frailty when we consider its history. Image123: Sorry but it does contain several contradictions, mythical occurrences and opinions that are plainly wrong. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by thehomer: 8:18pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
Image123: Oh ok. I'm sorry but it is quite distracting replying to your posts when I have to scroll all over the place to follow various parts of the discussion. So it's not a geology textbook but it does have some wrong opinions about geology. But, on the significant truths, I found some books that you could go through that were written around the same time that the New Testament was being compiled can you say they do not contain "significant truths"? Here are links to just two of them please check it out and tell me if it does not tell you something more, something different about the New Testament story. See here and here. Don't worry about hell. I'm sure there'll be enough space for us all. |
Re: If God Is So Forgiving And Loving Why Did He Feel It Necessary To Create Hell? by Nobody: 8:38pm On Mar 24, 2011 |
thehomer: So, who are the thinking beings?!!! ![]() |
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