TAO12:
@UGBE634,

I await your reply to my comments wherein I refuted (in advance) your latest innuendos.

Do well to prove yourself consistent by addressing the crucial refutations.

Also, I cited the earliest records of Benin accounts on the origin of the Ogiso monarchy.

Stop tricking your mind to say I cited Yoruba account on Ogiso. Such trick on yourself leads to delusions.


Moreover, I await your answer to my question in the comment below:

UGBE634:
It does not matter who said them, My father cannot tell me I am Yoruba because he is my father and I will take it, If it does not resonate with reality, then it is scam and his knowledge is limited, him been more ancient does not count as anything,

Igbo Elites have made claims too which many Igbos have successfully debunked here and the Elites seem to be far too Educated

The trader the Alaafin met wrote what he told him regardless of his personage. He is a human being and wrote what he told him but you have also in your own word successfully debunked it.

Samuel Johnson you have also in your own word successfully debunked. I should not have taken you serious in the first place. You are a joke

TAO11:
You had upheld the fact that there exists an ancient link between Ife and Benin,

However, at the very instant when I made you realize that academic and professional historians submitted that the link is actually one of Father-Ife & son-Benin (and not vice versa), you miraculously concluded that there was actually never any link between Ife & Benin in the ancient times. How miraculous & convenient?!

My humble advice is that you should accept whatever history throws at you regardless of how little it makes you feel, or how it bruises you. Such is life.

Having said that, you are yet to answer my foregoing humble question which you quoted which reads:

“Do you also want to be enlightened on each of the so-called 5 cLAiMs? — none of which is actually a cLAiM made/initiated by the Yorubas. Let me know what you think. Lol.”

Peace!

TAO12:
That’s probably why your father never said you’re Yorùbá, or did he? Lol.

TAO12:
What I think you’re referring to here is the remarkable absence of any similar statement as Dennett’s in Johnson’s work which is rightly a vast corpus of Oyo traditions (among others) — including those dealing with Oyo’s tributes to other kingdoms.

UGBE634:
When I talked about my father here I was not literal I was talking about bini

What I referred to was that Johnson made many claims some of which you guys including referring to Ijebu as food for the deep.

TAO12:
First of all, could you please separate my comments from yours to make reading easy for others who may be following this.
You may delete those parts of my comment which you which you do not feel the need to reply to.

Thanks.
Yes, it doesn’t matter. The essential point remains the same — that is, a Benin tradition about Benin is not true simply because it is a Benin tradition.

Rather, it is true because it is the earliest known Benin tradition about Benin and is not contradicted by the consensus of professional, academic historical studies (or some other evidence).

This is the case with the Benin traditions on the Ogiso monarchy which is not merely the earliest, but also corroborated by the conclusions of professional and academic historical studies.

As such, the Ogiso was initiated from Ife. So says the earliest and redoubtable Benin traditions on Ogiso.

Again, just as illustrated above, a tradition is not true just because it is the earliest. It must be the earliest and also be corroborated by the conclusion of academic study.

The conclusions from academic studies on the origin of the name “Ijebu” debunks your claim represented above from Johnson’s works.

Moreover, Johnson himself indicated that he couldn’t have obtain this specific information from the Ijebus as their country was not open to others [until later].

The account appears (from his wording) to have been obtained from the Owus who are the archenemies of the Ijebus as their ancestral homeland was sacked by a combined army of the Ifes and the Ijebus.

In sum, the same reasonable principle should apply consistently. A traditions is true because it is early and corroborated by historical studies and evidences.

Peace!

TAO12:
That’s probably why your father never said you’re Yorùbá, or did he? Lol.

TAO12:
In the case of the Ogisos on the other hand, the early Benin traditions says what is says that the Ogiso was initiated from Ife.

TAO12:
No! It is true for other reasons. Academic historians have examined this early traditions and have reached the conclusion that it is in line with the historical reality of the kingdom, region, and time.

TAO12:
Do you catch the difference now? Yes I agree that this facts may come across as shocking (or even troubling) for you because you’ve never taken your time to see what your own sources say first-hand. It had to be a Yoruba pointing you to your own sources. I appreciate how that could frustrating.

TAO12:

Now you’re making a poor comparison of dissimilar concepts, and I think you are intentional about it. Lol.

TAO12:
The word “earliest” (which is the term I’ve been using) is not one and the same as the word “elites”. Lol.

TAO12:
And even if their earliest sources say it, it must still be vetted by academic/professional historical studies — these studies have submitted that Igbos evolved as an ethno-linguistic group in the regions of the Niger-Benue confluence (alongside Yoruba, Bini, et al.).

TAO12:
Again, this is another dissimilar comparison. First of all Dennett’s one-line attribution to a certain Alaafin is not the earliest record of Oyo traditions on tribute payment. In contrast, Egharevba’s records of Benin traditions on Ogiso are the earliest on the subject.

TAO12:
Moreover, Dennett’s one-line attribution to the Alaafin is not corroborated by anything or any study (even as it suffers the disadvantage of not being the earliest Oyo source of the subject).
In contrast, the earliest Benin traditions on Ogiso is corroborated by historical studies (which I had cited) agrees with the early Benin traditions that Ogiso was despatched from Ife — it is also in harmony with the historical timelines.

UGBE634:
It does not matter who said them, My father cannot tell me I am Yoruba because he is my father and I will take it, If it does not resonate with reality, then it is scam and his knowledge is limited, him been more ancient does not count as anything, Igbo Elites have made claims too which many Igbos have successfully debunked here and the Elites seem to be far too Educated.
The trader the Alaafin met wrote what he told him regardless of his personage. He is a human being and wrote what he told him but you have also in your own word successfully debunked it.
Samuel Johnson you have also in your own word successfully debunked. I should not have taken you serious in the first place. You are a joke

UGBE634:
When I said my father I was not literal, Ogiso in its entirety is an Edo affair and has nothing to do with Ife or yoruba, If Egharevba would want tale of the Ogiso account, who would he have gone to, Is it not the palace which seems to have some yoruboid trait, did he go to Ugo. Eghaveravba himself is with some yoruboid trait.
The first Ogiso is from Ugo, the most ancient town of all Bini towns, Igodo is not Obagodo and Oba must have been placed as a prefix because the palace was used with the word Oba as king

[s]the early tradition which must have come from the palace is trash talk

Is it true just because the early Benin traditions said it?[/s]

Academic historians are not always right, they are humans too and they are fallible

I would take that as a palace source and not the source of the aborigines. But it is what it is.

There is no dissimiar comparison here, the comparisons are intact, it is about you switching off your brain when it concerns dominance of your tribe which are not true and obviously putting it off when it concerns other tribe even when the Odds are against you. Dernett have no Axe no grind with the Yoruba's and couldn't have written that in favor of the binis. Now we know whose oral traditions is faulty

It does not change a thing, earliest does not mean logically right and still won't mean. If it is not the voice of Esau then it is not Esau

No one has argued that but that some of their clans have link with and are associated with Binis is also not in contention

Again dont you have a brain, does Ikwerre attribution to Bini make them Binis, the fact some Binis in the past with yoruboid link attributed the Ogisos to the Yoruba does not make their claims true can't you see. Are you so dumb to see.
I would rather hold on to the fact that Oyo's oral historical account is faulty than disregarding dernett's view as Dernett had no Axe to grind with you guys and wrote his down rather down historical tales which can be distorted over time.

it is not there are about thirty one Ogisos and Egharevba only collated the Ones he was told and his knowledge was definitely limited

TAO12:
I respect your wish (that Ogiso should not be from Ife).

samuk:


Egharevba she keep quoting is maternally Yoruba. He had Yoruba and Benin ancestry. Oba Erediawa and Benin chiefs were not in agreement with all Egharevba wrote as history of Benin. Egharevba's first edition was greatly influenced by his Yoruba handlers in Ibadan.

Yoruba had already started stealing Benin history for over fifty years before Egharevba wrote his book, same Yoruba people supervised and published the book.

Like you said, the Benin/Ife relationship doesn't resonate with reality. There is zero evidence to support it.

Let's look at the evidence to support Benin Onitsha and Benin Itsekiri relationship.

Benin/Onitsha relationship:

1. The traditional title of obi of Onitsha is Agboghidi. I am sure you have heard about the great Agboghidi from Ugo. Agboghidi is a Benin word.

2. The name of Onitsha shrine is called Udo. Onitsha people said they left Benin during the war between Aruan of Udo and Oba Esigie.

3. Benin and Onitsha share similar traditional institution

Benin/Itsekiri relationship:

1. The traditional title of the Olu of Itsekiri is Ogiamen (ruler of the water, river, sea, ocean etc) Ogiamen is purely Benin word.

2. The Itsekiri monarchy and chieftaincy title is style to mimic Benin traditional institution.

Benin have nothing in common with Ife. The traditions and monarchical structures are different.

I told TAO11 earlier that the more she pushes this Benin/Ife fallacy, the more damage she will continue to cause to it. She is out to deceive unsuspecting readers, she dishes out garbage, junks, fairytales as history.

I am happy most people have the common sense to see through her lies once they are pointed out and people like me will continue to point the lies out.

Her stories have no bearings on reality, people are here for authentic history not fairytales. Most people have gone Beyond fairytales.

How can you argue that oba of Benin is Yoruba from Ife, and yet there are no similarities in culture between the Benin monarchy and Ife, no oba of Benin had Yoruba names, Benin artworks is different from artworks found in Ife.

Yoruba are claiming that they civilised Benin yet they can't point to their own civilisation, how can you give what you don't have.

She can qoute rubbish, copy and paste garbage from now till eternity, a lie will always remain a lie. If Edo people were Yoruba, they will not need anyone to tell them that, they will already know that by themselves. Ijebus are yet to completely accept the Yoruba tag, they are extending it to Benin.

Olu317:
Verify this name, if the written.alphabets are correct as well as the meaning:

Use oritse wara mi: Itsekiri dialect
Uṣe oríṣa wó ara mi
Uṣe oríṣa wa ara mi
Uṣe oríṣa wa ni ara mi
Uṣẹ oríṣa wó ara mi
Uṣẹ oríṣa wa ni ara mi
Uṣẹ oríṣa wa ni ara mi
Yoruba traditional dialect : wó uṣẹ oriṣa ni ara mi
Yoruba: woṣẹolúwaniarami
Yoruba muslim: wo ṣẹ ọlọ̀hún ni ara mi
Yoruba christian:wo ṣẹ ọlọ̀rún ni ara mi
Meaning: glory of God upon me, blessing of God upon me, blessing of forebear upon me.

Christistruth00:


Use oritse wara mi Itsekiri Yoruba

Ise Orisa (Oluwa) wa Lara mi. Yoruba (Oyo dialect)

Gods handwork/ blessing is on me English

OneNigerian:


Today I am 75 percent Esan and we speak simplified Igbo and our ancestral family compound in Delta Igbo or Ndokwa land still have our ancient Bini name of the Bini Iyase we cam

UGBE634:
[s]you are not a complete historian, does any of your AcAdEmIc knows the way to Udo, Ugo and Urhonigbe, did they go there. You can't completely claim the greatness of Bini without claiming the Ogisos you know that's why you are jittery and still grandstanding even when the Odds are against you. Those yoruboid binis can't speak for the populace . Even the story they gave out about their origin is full of loopholes. Will they be speaking for the pure binis who are the majority. Even if you go to Udo and Urhonigbe, they will point you to Ugo as the source of the Ogisos, there are folklores which revolves around Ugo concerning the Ogisos about laws of natural justice, peace, honesty, and so on,but there is none about Ife . This is not my stand, it is the general Bini stand against the account received by Egharevba in or at Akenzua's court. I have given you the general Bini account as it is you can go Bleep yourself
At least the readers on here who are sensible have seen my argument and know which fact to pick and the Junk to discard.
Even if the body like that of Esau if it is not the voice of Esau then it is not Esau don't be deceived my sister.[/s]

TAO12:

The earliest traditions of Binis themselves concerning the origin of the Ogiso monarchy (prior to your 21st century laughable sourceless revision) goes thus:

“Many, many years ago, Odua (Oduduwa) of Uhe (Ile-Ife) the father and the progenitor of the Yoruba kings sent his eldest son Obagodo who took the title of Ogiso with a large retinue all the way from Uhe to found a Kingdom in this part of the world.”

Chief J.U. Egharevba, “A Short History of Benin,” (1936), p.7.

What conclusions have the leading authorities on pre-colonial Benin reached with respect to this origin tradition of the Ogiso monarchy?

Having combed through & scrutinized the early Benin traditions of origins of the Ogiso monarchy, scholars have reached the following conclusion (on the basis of anthropological field work on Benin and the Edos):

“The third Ogiso became the last in their Yoruba, Ife line. He returned to Ife, but by that time the very institution of the supreme supra-chiefdom ruler had already been established firmly enough in Benin.”

D. M. Bondarenko and P. M. Roese, “Ancient Benin: Where Did the First Monarchs Come From?,” (2001), p.10.

In essence, you and your co-revisionsists without any source whatsoever are unfortunately inconsequential.

TAO12:

The earliest traditions of Binis themselves concerning the origin of the Ogiso monarchy (prior to your 21st century laughable sourceless revision) goes thus:

“Many, many years ago, Odua (Oduduwa) of Uhe (Ile-Ife) the father and the progenitor of the Yoruba kings sent his eldest son Obagodo who took the title of Ogiso with a large retinue all the way from Uhe to found a Kingdom in this part of the world.”

Chief J.U. Egharevba, “A Short History of Benin,” (1936), p.7.

What conclusions have the leading authorities on pre-colonial Benin reached with respect to this origin tradition of the Ogiso monarchy?

Having combed through & scrutinized the early Benin traditions of origins of the Ogiso monarchy, scholars have reached the following conclusion (on the basis of anthropological field work on Benin and the Edos):

“The third Ogiso became the last in their Yoruba, Ife line. He returned to Ife, but by that time the very institution of the supreme supra-chiefdom ruler had already been established firmly enough in Benin.”

D. M. Bondarenko and P. M. Roese, “Ancient Benin: Where Did the First Monarchs Come From?,” (2001), p.10.

In essence, you and your co-revisionsists without any source whatsoever are unfortunately inconsequential.

Peace!

UGBE634:
When you seem successful with one claim with one or two binis agreeing with you no matter how absurd it may seem you move on to the next claim

Why is the Ogiso Edo and not Ife.

1. Because there are several folklores concerning the Ogisos in Ugo about Peace, honesty, natural Justice,and so on and not one about Ife.

2.There are descendants of Ogiso in Benin and not Ife, They are one of the 74 families in Benin, they are pure Edos by Blood and they trace their Origin to Ugo and not Ife.

3. The Oba placed himself as a continuation of the Ogisos so as to pass the Message to the Binis or Edos that he is pure Edo by Blood in other to Garner and gather their support against the Ogieamien who gives them tough time at every ascension with the claim that they are foreigners.

4. To discontinue his relationship with the yorubas, because he knows by saying he is a continuation of the Ogiso, he would alter his link with Yoruba and Ife after the bad bromance the father had with western region before 1963 which he was already a grown man and an adult with Education to see these things.
We can see from the following point that Oba Eredieuwa is aware that the Ogiso is stuck in Antiquity and the story Egharevba collated from his father's court is not really a testament of the realities on ground.

OneNigerian:
[s]The Binis wear wrappers like ancient Egyptians. They came from the Egypt and settled with people who were already there thousands of years before the mega lake Chad started to dry up. That started 8,000 years ago and they maintained contact for a while before being cut off or they choose to cut themselves off as our ancestors preferred the jungle. Look at the design of ancient Bini city? The jungle was encouraged to grow around the city walls. Conservative and care for environment. It would take Europeans 2500 years to become that advanced to understand global warming and the planting of trees to protect the environment. The Binis came with prio knowledge. Do a random samples dna tests of edo and delta state people choose 50 from each village and cities and the blood will settle your lack of knowledge. Quoting propaganda written materials without any historical facts or even a single Bini bronze to support the following works of fiction that you mentioned. I did a dna test to verify the history my father thought me before I even left primary school. He said we are so old as a people we once shared our lands with black giants. There is a story of Oba Ozoluwa wiping off the last of the 15 to 30 feet tall giants. In ancient Egypt temples still have pictures of giants taller than giraffes � doing their daily chores along side normal sized humans when the region was jungle and savanna before the desert forced our direct ancestors to abandon ancient Egypt leaving now it in the hands of other members of our families left behind. What is in the Yoruba blood if you did dna tests? Possible links that both you and the Igbos were once one people who lived in the lands that became Nigeria 25,000 years ago making the Igbos even older than the Yoruba. What legendary civilisations of man would your blood reveal? Except if you were privileged to have had Bini blood injected into it a thousand years ago or lesser before the white men came. The Yoruba were never strong enough to conquer tiny Dahomey (Benin republic) which was part of the Bini empire ruled by Bini people at one point who enjoy enslaving Yoruba people repeatedly. How come you rule over Bini? Is that madness or genetic stupidity? Is it contagious?[/s]

Christistruth00:


Use oritse wara mi Itsekiri Yoruba

Ise Orisa (Oluwa) wa Lara mi. Yoruba (Oyo dialect)

Gods handwork/ blessing is on me English

TAO12:
PS:
Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin began to have kings on recently — or that Benin kings (if they exist) never had names?

Similarly, throughout the centuries of the interactions with the Europeans, there is no single record of any relationship between Benin and Onitsha.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin had no relationship with Onitsha until in recent times?
—————————

You are actually to foolish to be ignored because to ignore has a specially foolish meaning to you. To you it means that you’re stating FaCtS. Joker.

Moreover, you are also resolutely fraudulent because this very crap you heaped above have been even to your satisfaction on a different thread.

The Devastating Refutation:
Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

Cc: nisai, FairlyUSEDpussy, theTranslator. UGBE634

TAO12:
PS:
Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin began to have kings on recently — or that Benin kings (if they exist) never had names?

Similarly, throughout the centuries of the interactions with the Europeans, there is no single record of any relationship between Benin and Onitsha.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin had no relationship with Onitsha until in recent times?
—————————

You are actually to foolish to be ignored because to ignore has a specially foolish meaning to you. To you it means that you’re stating FaCtS. Joker.

Moreover, you are also resolutely fraudulent because this very crap you heaped above have been even to your satisfaction on a different thread.

The Devastating Refutation:
Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

Cc: nisai, FairlyUSEDpussy, theTranslator. UGBE634

theTranslator:
lol
The king of Benin is Yoruba
Their name "Benin" is from Yoruba
Itsekiri speaks Yoruboid
"Olu" is Yoruba
That stupid law has been destroyed
Their new Olu has a Yoruba mother from Ogun State
No amount of crying can change that

OneNigerian:
Yes brothers, these guys are ignorant as they come. The famous mascot of FESTAC 77 on the old Nigerian currency (haven’t seen a Nigerian currency in over a decade) shows the great Queen of legend Idia of Bini with 16 European ambassadors on head head to symbolise that white men including Portuguese ambassadors bow before the queen of Bini, the wife of a god King and the mother of the next god King. She opened up Bini. She had her own armies and can wage wars at will if she chooses. No Yoruba queen in history, past present or future had such a power or ever will for all time. Bini is not in the same Level or age of the Yoruba nation or anyone of its Kingdom. Britain knew this. It’s why they decided that it must be destroyed and erased from the map so they can colonise the colonies they later had in West Africa. No Yoruba city ever grew to the size of Bini and 500 years ago the Oba of Bini could raise a 1 million men strong army. The collection of Yoruba kingdoms under any are onona kanfo were never half that strong . It’s 100 percent impossible for the Yoruba nation as a collective to invade Bini and rule its Oba let alone tiny Ile ife? Seriously? Bini would have sent an army led by a woman to destroy or colonise it for such an insult. Bini ceded civilisations across west Africa including our neighbouring country republic of Benin named after the land of their ancestors acknowledge their origin as not Yoruba. Yorubas were never strong enough to conquer the armies of Bini women that marched into Yoruba land constantly and captured and enslaved Yoruba men and women selling them as slaves across the Atlantic Ocean in which was an evil thing to do as Bini fought a civil war to end whole sale slavery a thousand years earlier. So this retard saying an idiot from the west quoted the god King the person of an Oba of Bini bowing to an ordinary Ife King must have been dropped on their head as a baby. Go study your history. Bini is s civilisations that can be quoted on the same breath as their ancestors the black ancient Egyptians my direct ancestors.

macof:



How much was the population of Bini that one million men could be raised for an army
Even today that the population is higher, one million men cannot be raised for an army

The collection of yoruba kingdoms were not half as strong

Honestly, Bini people have finally run mad

TAO12:
PS:
Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin began to have kings on recently — or that Benin kings (if they exist) never had names?

Peace!

Cc: nisai