FairlyUSEDpussy:


Why speak on what u don't know??
No itsekiri will distant himself/herself from yoruba.........

ariesbull:
I lived in Warri and many Itshekiri hated that ..they don't agree to be called Yoruba ...they want their in identity


I live at Pesu waterside

ariesbull:
I lived in Warri and many Itshekiri hated that ..they don't agree to be called Yoruba ...they want their in identity
I live at Pesu waterside

TAO11:


Actually they have a number of conflicting creation myths.

One of them --- with the title "Iso Norho" --- specifically mentions Ife as the center of the world from where Edo, Ijaw, and Igbo left to their present location.

It talks about pouring sand over the primordial water-filled earth, about chain from heaven, etc. very similar to the Yoruba creation myth.

I will cite reference to it soon.

Modified --- see below as promised:

"The myth of the pouring sky ("Iso Norho" )

The most popular surviving non-dynastic myth of a common Edo origin is that of Iso Norho, ... .It puts the emergence of the Benin and other -speaking people in a primordial centre, Uhe, a place where problems are heaped before Oghene --- the God of creation --- ... .Uhe is said to have been occupied by Olukumi ("Yoruba" ), Igbon ("Igbo" ) and Uzon ("Ijo" ).

The myth begins by naming Oghene ( God" ) as the father of Iso ("the Sky" ), Ason ("Night" ) and Avan ("Daylight" ). Out of the three children of Oghene, only the eldest son, Iso ("Sky" ), had children; Ame ("Water" ) and Oto ("Earth" ). The children of Oto were Igbon ("Igbo" ), Olukumi ("Yoruba " and Idu ("Edo ". ... .But Oghene did not want the children to suffer undue hardship. By means of a chain he poured sand on the flood water to form dry land for their inhabitants. Thus Uhe ("i.e. old Ife" ) was formed by divine ("Oghene's" ) providence. ...

Idu's children ("Akka, Efa, Emechi" ) had to migrate from Uhe to the present site of Benin City --- then called Ubinu --- where they displaced a group of original settlers, Ivbirinwineko ("dwarfs from the spirit world" ). Memories of these original settlers are preserved in Edo songs and folklore."

Reference:
Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2004, pp.312-313.

samuk:
[s]From the beginning of time Benin and other Edoid groups such a Urhobo have always referred to God almighty in heaven as Oghene.

The Ogene she is trying to convert to Ife today was first argued by her as being part of Benin myths of creation. You can see from TAO11 submission below that Oghene clearly referred to God in heaven not Ooni of Ife.

Today, she wants to twist the myths of creation to suits her Benin/Ife fairytale.[/s]

TAO11:


Actually they have a number of conflicting creation myths.

One of them --- with the title "Iso Norho" --- specifically mentions Ife as the center of the world from where Edo, Ijaw, and Igbo left to their present location.

It talks about pouring sand over the primordial water-filled earth, about chain from heaven, etc. very similar to the Yoruba creation myth.

I will cite reference to it soon.

Modified --- see below as promised:

"The myth of the pouring sky ("Iso Norho" )

The most popular surviving non-dynastic myth of a common Edo origin is that of Iso Norho, ... .It puts the emergence of the Benin and other -speaking people in a primordial centre, Uhe, a place where problems are heaped before Oghene --- the God of creation --- ... .Uhe is said to have been occupied by Olukumi ("Yoruba" ), Igbon ("Igbo" ) and Uzon ("Ijo" ).

The myth begins by naming Oghene ( God" ) as the father of Iso ("the Sky" ), Ason ("Night" ) and Avan ("Daylight" ). Out of the three children of Oghene, only the eldest son, Iso ("Sky" ), had children; Ame ("Water" ) and Oto ("Earth" ). The children of Oto were Igbon ("Igbo" ), Olukumi ("Yoruba " and Idu ("Edo ". ... .But Oghene did not want the children to suffer undue hardship. By means of a chain he poured sand on the flood water to form dry land for their inhabitants. Thus Uhe ("i.e. old Ife" ) was formed by divine ("Oghene's" ) providence. ...

Idu's children ("Akka, Efa, Emechi" ) had to migrate from Uhe to the present site of Benin City --- then called Ubinu --- where they displaced a group of original settlers, Ivbirinwineko ("dwarfs from the spirit world" ). Memories of these original settlers are preserved in Edo songs and folklore."

Reference:
Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2004, pp.312-313.

samuk:
[s]The significance of Uhe in Benin mythology.

Uhe in Benin means female reproductive part or virginal.

In Benin methodology, it's believed that Uhe is the passage from which God almighty sends his children to the world.

Uhe was never a geographical location in Benin myths of creation, it was certainly not Ife.

In Benin methodology the female goddess of Olokun is the greatest of all deities and gods, she is the goddess of fertility and rebirth.

How did Uhe became Ife.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897 and Oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar, the British wanted to end the dynasty and replaced it with their own appointed representative in the person of Agho Obaseki, great grandfather of the current governor of Edo state. The Benin people resisted insisting that only a prince can become a legitimate Oba in Benin.

Oba Ovonramwen heir, who later became Oba Eweka 2 was in a difficult position and sort alliances with the Alaafin and Ooni of Ife who the British have favoured. This is how Benin former myths were edited/modified to accommodate the Yorubas, Uhe(Virginal/ female birth canal) became Ife in the new created Benin/Ife fairytale.

In the first version of Benin/Ife relationship that was created from Benin myths of creation:

1. Uhe (female birth canal) became Ife.

2. Oba of Benin retains his initial position in the Benin myths as the most senior son to God almighty but this time he was the most senior heir to Oduduwa through Oranmiyan. The Alaafin was the second child to Oranmiyan and the Ooni was their chief priest.

By the reign of Oba Akenzua 2, the Yorubas have modified this myths by elevating the Ooni from chief priest to become the head of all Yoruba Obas. Oba Akenzua 2 was not comfortable with this new arrangement and took his people and mid-west out of the then Western region.

As you can see below, the Benin/Ife relationship was evolved from one of Benin myths of creations, it has nothing to do with reality and real history. This is why there are no historical evidence to support it till 1897 when the it was created.

TAO11 in are limited knowledge of Benin methodology equates Uhe to Ife[/s]

TAO12:
This guy is a dullard. You need anything to stay afloat, don’t you?

Samuk’s Reasoning:
The name “Oghene” features in Edo mythology, hence “Oghene” is not real.

My Reply:
The name “Benin”/“Ubini” features in Edo myth, hence “Ubini”/“Benin” is a fictional place that does not exist.

“Ogiso” feature in Edo mythology, hence there was no Ogiso monarchy prior to the present Oba dynasty.

You are a disgrace, you actually deserve a medal for foolishness.
——————

See the first screenshot for your own Bini dictionary as per the meaning of ọghẹnẹ/ɔɣɛnɛ (using diacritic
symbols/IPA symbols).

Reference:
H. Melzian, A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Souther Nigeria.

Peace!

macof:
To add to the word "Ọghẹnẹ"

In southeastern Yoruba dialects it is "Ọghọnẹ" or "ɔɣɔnɛ". For example that is what the Ọ̀ọni of Ifẹ̀ is called in Ilaje
In standard Yoruba it is properly "Ọ̀wọni". You will find it written as such in older references
Break it down to its etymological origin and it is "Ọ̀wọ̀ ẹni".. Same thing in those SEY dialects "Ọghọnẹ" = "Ọghọ ọnẹ"

Ọ̀wọ̀ ẹni and Ọghọ ọnẹ could best be translated as "exalted one" or "respected one"

"oghene" as Edoid people of Bini and Urhobo call it, is safely a Yoruboid input.

It goes to show you what kind of respect and exaltation the Ooni received in this part of the world, when his title became used by urhobo to refer to God

TAO12:
Good inputs.

BTW, the content of your attachments are very, very blurry, and the attachments themselves small.

PS: Oh okay, you fixed that.

The second screenshot is pfrofessor Akin Ogundiran’s new “The Yoruba” right?

Cc: macof

macof:
Yeah I have fixed it.

Yes that's the book

TAO12:
I actually just noticed something now from their own dictionary which I attached.

I just noticed where it says that their word ọghọnẹ is actually derived from our word ọghọni (ọwọni) [ọọni].

“ɔɣɛnɛ … cf. Yor. ɔɔni”

Wow! This their dictionary will expose everything las-las.

Your point makes clearer and fuller sense to me now.

Cc: macof.

macof:
Also the presence of the potentially yoruba derived "ɔɣɔ"

RedboneSmith:


•••

I've been seeing Edo people claiming the Udo in Onitsha is a deification of an Edo town. I never see where a whole town was deified before oh. So some people will be somewhere worshipping Ibadan or Auchi or Tokyo. Wawu! I said I should point it out now before this piece of falsehood becomes codified in Edo historical orthodoxy, because e no dey hard them to turn a lie into a 'truth' (Cf. 'the Oduduwa is Ekalederhan' lie amongst others.)

•••

macof:


To add to the word "Ọghẹnẹ"

In southeastern Yoruba dialects it is "Ọghọnẹ" or "ɔɣɔnɛ". For example that is what the Ọ̀ọni of Ifẹ̀ is called in Ilaje
In standard Yoruba it is properly "Ọ̀wọni". You will find it written as such in older references
Break it down to its etymological origin and it is "Ọ̀wọ̀ ẹni".. Same thing in those SEY dialects "Ọghọnẹ" = "Ọghọ ọnẹ"

Ọ̀wọ̀ ẹni and Ọghọ ọnẹ could best be translated as "exalted one" or "respected one"

"oghene" as Edoid people of Bini and Urhobo call it, is safely a Yoruboid input.

It goes to show you what kind of respect and exaltation the Ooni received in this part of the world, when his title became used by urhobo to refer to God

Naphtali44:

This is crazy...u clearly don't know anything about what you just wrote....'oghene' in urhobo is a title to demonstrate the absolute sovereignty of the creator. It means 'lord of the four' as our God is lord of ojuvwu, akpor, erivwin and Ame, which are the four realms of existence. Please don't insult our God. Your ooni is a man and your people are invaders(from songhai) of the ancient oghene kingdom.

macof:

Lord of the four kọ, Lord of the flies ni

It wouldn't be the first theory of a title being applied to a God or vice versa. It happens more regularly than you would think

Naphtali44:

Abeg go Sidan... I dey teach you truth, u dae zuz....

the glorious kingdom will rise again and bring trouble to the invaders

macof:


What'sup with Bini people and the word "truth"

Naphtali44:

I'm not Beni, I'm uruegbo(urhobo)......

Besides, truth is something the world currently lacks going by the large scale sick distortion of factual history and appalling identity theft both on this forum by you and your colleagues and in your "history" books.

Naphtali44:


the glorious kingdom will rise again and bring trouble to the invaders

macof:
As far as you affiliate with Benin kingdom you are Bini in this conversation.


And you have the exact miscreant mentality Bini youths are known for on the Internet especially on this forum.
Cry me a river deal with my points by making a superior argument. I broke down those words, show how my break down is wrong, don't cry on my mentions mr. Truth

TAO12:
Plus their own dictionary agrees with you. So ….?

macof:


As far as you affiliate with Benin kingdom you are Bini in this conversation.


And you have the exact miscreant mentality Bini youths are known for on the Internet especially on this forum.
Cry me a river deal with my points by making a superior argument. I broke down those words, show how my break down is wrong, don't cry on my mentions mr. Truth

Naphtali44:

Firstly, we uruegbo do not associate with beni or edo generally. Your "points" mean nothing when you are history books written by frauds. Your breakdown is actually very stupid, trying to link two unrelated words for the purpose of implanting your people in the glorious history of uruegbo.

Now let me teach you the truth about those unrelated words you were trying to link like a child learning a word. Ooni is a corruption of the word 'onini' meaning great or grand leader in uruegbo. The word oghene is a combination of two uruegbo words, 'oga' or 'ogi' meaning 'lord' and 'ene' meaning 'four'. 'ogaene' literally means 'lord (of the) four'.

RedboneSmith:


Yeeeeeeaaaa. The Yoruba etymology makes more sense. Sorry

RedboneSmith:


Yeeeeeeaaaa. The Yoruba etymology makes more sense. Sorry

Naphtali44:

Firstly, we uruegbo do not associate with beni or edo generally. Your "points" mean nothing when you are history books written by frauds. Your breakdown is actually very stupid, trying to link two unrelated words for the purpose of implanting your people in the glorious history of uruegbo.

Now let me teach you the truth about those unrelated words you were trying to link like a child learning a word. Ooni is a corruption of the word 'onini' meaning great or grand leader in uruegbo. The word oghene is a combination of two uruegbo words, 'oga' or 'ogi' meaning 'lord' and 'ene' meaning 'four'. 'ogaene' literally means 'lord (of the) four'.

TAO12:
Regarding the mention of “cross”.



There are many cross motif symbols in the arts of Ife which again proves Ife to be the place of the Ogane in d’Aveiro’s account in the recension of Joao de Barros. Robin Horton puts it down as follows:

“Thus we now have several examples of the Maltese-cross symbols on terra-cotta materials excavated at Ife*”

Robin Horton, “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment,” Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria,” Vol. 9. No.4, 1979, p.86.

Moreover, the following passage, showing the Oba of Benin’s address of morning prayers to his ancestors at Ife and Oyo also confirms the association of cross with Ife in particular and Yorubaland in general.

The account is recorded by Ward-Price who was on a visit to the then Oba of Benin. He writes:

“Following the Oba, I went through a heavy Iroko door, which opened into a long, narrow, corridor-like room, with a tall window at the other end. He showed me a brass crucifix which was attached to a cord around his neck, and waited for the first rays of the day to illumine the window, when he pressed the crucifix to his forehead, and prayed for the Oni of Ife, the Alaafin of Oyo and the Oba of Benin (that is himself), after which he prayed for all the other Yoruba kings. This had for long been the custom, he said, whether the Oba was Christian or not.”

H. L. Ward-Price, “Dark Subject,” 1939, p.238.

Peace!

Olu317:
Which of the mail add do you use often ? Let me ask you a question overthere

Naphtali44:

Firstly, we uruegbo do not associate with beni or edo generally. Your "points" mean nothing when you are history books written by frauds. Your breakdown is actually very stupid, trying to link two unrelated words for the purpose of implanting your people in the glorious history of uruegbo.

Now let me teach you the truth about those unrelated words you were trying to link like a child learning a word. Ooni is a corruption of the word 'onini' meaning great or grand leader in uruegbo. The word oghene is a combination of two uruegbo words, 'oga' or 'ogi' meaning 'lord' and 'ene' meaning 'four'. 'ogaene' literally means 'lord (of the) four'.