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| Re: Th by TAO12: 9:20pm On Aug 19, 2021 |
HornyTave:(1) ON ITSEKIRI: To know who the Itsekiris are, ask them. What/who do the Itsekiris themselves say they are? (A) The eyewitness accounts collected from them in the 1800s have them confirming to the Europeans that they are part and parcel of the larger Yoruba group: (I) “Let me now refer briefly to the tribes that people this part of the world. First we come to the Jakris, who are connected in race and language with the Yoruba people, extending from the Mahin country on the west to the Forcados on the East, and inland about as far as Sapele.” ~ H. L. Gallwey, “Journeys in the Benin Country, West Africa,” The Geographical Journal, Vol. 1, No. 2 (Feb., 1893), p.127. (II) “In this respect, however, the officials agree with the tradition of the people at Warri, the Jekries, who claim to come from the west.” ~ H. Ling Roth, “Great Benin: Its Customs, Arts and Horrors,” (1903), pp.8-9. (B) This historical reality of the Itsekiris have remained the same since that period (i.e. the 1800s & prior) all the way to the present century, day & time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKLTie7LhKQ (I) For example, at timestamp 7:01 to 7:13 of this video, Chief Robinson Ariyo (the Egogo of Warri kingdom) says and I quote: “… Yoruba, a place where we are from … our roots.” (II) At timestamp 8:22 to 8:27 of this video, Chief Isaac Jemide (the Oshodin of Warri kingdom) says: “… we are a Yoruba people as such.” (2) ON ODUDUWA: First of all, there is no such historical personage called Izoduwa (Imadoduwa) etc. in Benin traditions. The IzOdUwA narrative is a fabrication that was made up by some Binis in the 1970s. And it was first heard of by the typical Edo person during Omonoba Erediauwa’s coronation ceremony of 1978-9. Academic/professional historians (NOT the Benin neighborhood story-tellers) all laugh at this fabrication for being a poor job. This scandal is known to experts. Benin elders also know it. See attached screenshot for one example. The classical story of the Bini Ekeladerhan which was first collected in the year 1889 is clear that he lived the remaining part of his life in his newly founded kingdom, Ughoton. A Bini chronicler and chief (J. Uwadiae Egharevba) who flourished decades later also collected practically the same story of Ekaladerhan (from an entirely different generation of Bini informants), and his story also ended at his kingdom, Ughoton. During all these period, Benin history recognizes King Oduduwa as being distict from Ekeladerhan. In fact, it is clear from the early Benin works that Oduduwa was already a King at Ife long before Ekaladerhan’s fore-fathers would be born. In other words, it is very clear from the early records of Benin history that Oduduwa ruled in Ife when the first Ogiso, viz. Ogiso Igodo was sent to Igodomigodo to establish a supreme-supra-chiefdom there. Whereas, Ekalderhan is the son of the last Ogiso, viz. Ogiso Owodo according to Benin records (even the recent records haven’t yet modified this part). This is what the earliest records of Benin history say — that, Oduduwa is a different and distinct person from Ekeladerhan. They flourished in different eras. Fast forward to the 1970s, lies began to surface in the history of Benin. The motive behind these lies have been variously linked, by scholars, to — for example — the need for the modern Binis “to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people and claims for its exclusive part in the sociopolitical life of independent Nigeria” ~ Bondarenko (2003:68). In summary, early Benin history recognize Oduduwa as a different & distinct person from Ekaladerhan. He is recognized as having flourished at the outset of the Ogiso monarchy. It wasn’t until the 1970s before the Binis attempted to alter their own early documented history so as to equate two different persons as one and the same person for the purpose of veiling what they perceive to be an embarrassing aspect of their history in a newly formed country, Nigeria. So, who is King Oduduwa? Oodua ruled as king only in Yorubaland. So, again (just like the Itsekiris’s case) ask at Ife (where he ruled) to know who he is. According to received Ife traditions (and obviously the earliest Yoruba traditions), Oduduwa is known (without any confusion) as Oshin Ora in his oriki. In the earliest Yoruba traditions, he is identified as a Yoruba leader who hailed from the hilly settlement of Oke-Ora; that is, one of the seven hilly settlements surrounding the Ife-bowl. (3) ON Ọ̀WỌ̀ & ADO-EKITI: Owo and Ado-Ekiti do not have Benin ancestry. Again, to know the roots & foundations of the Owo kingdom, ask the Owo palace. According to the main body of Owo palace traditions, the kingdom of Ọ̀wọ̀ (classic dialect: Ọ̀ɣọ̀) was founded by a prince of Ile-Ife whose name is given as Asunlola Ojugbelu — a.k.a. Omolaghaye (and his son, Imade). Also, the kingdom of Ado-Ekiti is founded (according to Ado palace traditions) by a prince of Ile-Ife who was known by the names Awamaro as well as Ewi. Until you provide accounts of Owo palace traditions, and Ado-Ekiti palace traditions which identifies these individuals (Ojugbelu and Awamaro respectively) as Binis; then your submission remains the joke that it is. Peace! Cc: theTranslator, musiwa10, Poiu11, FairlyUSEDpussy Screenshot Reference: J. Eboreime, “Oral Traditions and the Prehistory of the Edo-Speaking People of Benin” in Blench and Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I, Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2004, p. 314. 13 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: Th by FairlyUSEDpussy: 10:29am On Aug 21, 2021 |
TAO12: God bless u ma........ I knew binis r synonymous to lying.....just needed to come up with evidences....... Nothing gives me greater joy........than seeing u burst this mofos when they lie....... HornyTave!!!!!show yo lying face Oooo  12 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Th by UGBE634: 11:35am On Aug 21, 2021 |
TAO12:how would he be king at Ife before Ekaladerhan's forefathers was born and immediately after the banishment of Ekalederhan, the Interregnum Followed and the Ogieamien/Evian, before Oranmiyan was sent for. All these happenings won't be more than fifty years. TAO12:sent?who sent him TAO12:how would you reconcile this fact because it was only after Ogiso Owodo son was banished, and the Interregnum followed, then the Ogieamien/Evian followed, before Oranmiyan was sent for, how could he have been alive during the Time of Igodo and his Son/grandson later came to be king after twenty Ogisos HornyTave:I will be tilted to believe this narrative now, he couldn't have come to Benin City of today and yet nowhere in the whole of Benin City is Yoruba spoken not even by a minute clan, Even the palace that was said to be Yoruba speaking gave Ozolua the name Okpame as a prince -entirely intelligible to the Edo man, Ovonranwmen was Idugbowa-also entirely Intelligible to the Edo man, and so with most of the princes if not all. History seem more or less like a ruse to me. And also Igueghae who was said to have taught Bini bronze Casting that is sad to be from Ife is with a Bini name 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 12:09pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
Let’s get this straight so I can determine the approach of my response: Are you trying to argue or are you genuinely seeking to understand? Make your pick so I can proceed. Thanks. @UGBE634 3 Likes |
| Re: Th by nisai: 12:16pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
TAO12:  E sanu boda ooo. I know say u don ready koboko. 5 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 12:17pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
nisai:Lol. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Th by UGBE634: 12:22pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
TAO12:both, there are some I don't and can't understand and would sincerely wish to contend |
| Re: Th by samuk: 12:42pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
UGBE634: Just claiming the Oba dynasty as coming from Ife is no longer enough, the Yorubas are also claiming the Ogisos as being sent from Ife, they also claimed that the Yorubas introduced the Ada and Eben to Benin. I did a comprehensive writeup on Benin/Ife relationship, Oduduwa and Ekaladerhan and how all these stories, not history started after 1897. Ask yourself how many Obas of Benin have Yoruba names, they all have traditional Edo names. Research and hear the sort of deeply Edo traditional names the Benin princes and princesses bear before oba Eweka 2 who started all these Benin/Ife connection. The Yoruba can only misinform you. Imagine you trying to learn your history of over 1000 years from some of those whose ancestors were recently dumped on the Nigeria soil after the abolition of slavery in the 1800s. Some of these guys ancestors were not even originally from Nigeria. |
| Re: Th by UGBE634: 12:49pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
samuk:My brother that I can never accept. The Ogisos cannot be sent from Ife. I see a Plan to place all Bini achievement towards the yorubas and my brother, some of them are bare faced lies. The Ogiso in its entirety is internal and has nothing to do with Ife or Yoruba. If Oranmiyan came to Benin, it is certainly not the present day Bini city, the Palace initially was at Udo before it was moved to Benin during Esigie's reign after Esigie won Araruan. And Usen is a stonethrow from Udo, |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 12:53pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
samuk:I swear to God, I could see crystal-clearly through your heap of pain and anguish, and I know UGBE, whom you are seeking to deceive, also can. UGBE must be wondering, why is this my brother so deceptive, bitter and sad? I pray for you today that God should restore your long lost happiness again, if possible. Amen. Sending you love and light. Now to UGBE634 8 Likes |
| Re: Th by UGBE634: 1:08pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
samuk:my brother the thing tire me to think the palace was said to be yoruboid speaking at the time is beyond me. Even Ovoranwmen's children were all with Edo names. I would be tempted to think maybe the Oba was a yoruboid Edo. Maybe from Usen or one of the other yoruboid-Edo speaking communities. The claim will be plausible as Usen was close to the capital at the time |
| Re: Th by samuk: 1:20pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
UGBE634: These are some of what the Yorubas have claimed so far: 1. The Ogisos were sent from Ife to Benin 2. Yoruba introduced Ada and Eben to Benin. 3. Ife taught Benin Bronze casting. They forgot that Benin also did wood carvings. There is no evidence that the few artworks found in Ife was done there. 5. Yoruba introduced Ada and Eben to the Ogisos. 6. Yoruba was the official language of Benin Palace. Yet no Oba of Benin, princes and princesses had Yoruba names until Eweka 2. |
| Re: Th by UGBE634: 1:27pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
samuk:These five claims are so not true, The last one is a big blow to them obviously. It was not even Eweka2. It was Eweka 1, Eweka the second name was Aiguobasiwmin-it is intelligible to all Edos |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 5:59pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
My replies would be based on two sources, viz. (1) the earliest received/published traditions from Benin (2) the historical conclusions reached by the foremost scholars (i.e. academic/professional historians) of pre-colonial Benin dead/alive today. Fair? UGBE634:First of all, by the word “he,” you must be referring to King Oduduwa himself. Secondly, it is very, very implausible, in fact actually unrealistic and irrational to propose a gap of about “fifty years” between the first Ogiso and the last. To break this down for you, the earliest received and published traditions on the Ogisos list them as twelve, from Igodo to Owodo (both of them inclusive). Your proposition of a fifty-year time-span between the first Ogiso (Igodo) and the last (Owodo) leaves the inevitable conclusion that each ruled for an average of about four (4) years. Now you see the absurdity and inconsistency of your proposition of a fifty year gap between the start and end of the Ogiso “monarchy”. Having clarified that, I would proceed now to quote to you what the earliest received/published traditions from Benin say regarding the beginning of the Ogiso “monarchy”: “Many, many years ago, Odua (Oduduwa) of Uhe (Ile-Ife) the father and the progenitor of the Yoruba kings sent his eldest son Obagodo who took the title of Ogiso with a large retinue all the way from Uhe to found a Kingdom in this part of the world.” ~ Chief J.U. Egharevba, “A Short History of Benin,” (1936), p.7. In other words, the earliest records of Benin traditions on the Ogiso monarchy states that it began from Ifẹ̀ (“Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá”) during the reign of Oduduwa. Moreover, modern academic/professional historians have now combed and scrutinized Benin traditions on the root of the Ogiso monarchy and have also come to agree with these early Benin traditions. D. M. Bondarenko writes in relation to this as follows: “The third Ogiso became the last in their Yoruba, Ife line. He returned to Ife, but by that time the very institution of the supreme supra-chiefdom ruler had already been established firmly enough in Benin.” ~ D. Bondarenko and P. Roese, “Ancient Benin: Where Did the First Monarchs Come From?,” (June 2001), p.10. sent? who sent himAs you can see above from the early Benin traditions, the first Ogiso monarch was sent from Ife during the reign of King Oduduwa himself. how would you reconcile this fact because it was only after Ogiso Owodo son was banished, and the Interregnum followed, then the Ogieamien/Evian followed, before Oranmiyan was sent for, how could he have been alive during the Time of Igodo and his Son/grandson later came to be king after twenty OgisosAlthough there is actually nothing baffling whatsoever in this Benin traditions which professionals have long scrutinized, agreed with, and moved on from; I am glad that you raised your question along those lines because it allows me to show you how these Benin traditions are corroborated by historical conclusions from even other sources. Firstly, the early Benin traditions imply that Oduduwa was at the beginning of the Ogiso “monarchy,” while Oranmiyan was at its ‘end’. Your question (of how Oranmiyan could still be alive at the end of the Ogiso monarchy) stems from your basic assumption that Oranmiyan was alive at the beginning of the Ogiso monarchy. There is no historical evidence for this assumption of yours. Oranmiyan doesn’t have to be alive at the start of the Ogiso monarchy. He can be (and he actually is) Oduduwa’s grandson, and also be yet unborn when the Ogiso monarchy kickstarted. To further break this down for you and make things even clearer as promised, our traditions make it clear that Oranmiyan is “one of the youngest grandsons [if not literally the youngest grandson of the youngest son] of Oduduwa”. Moreover, modern historical studies by professional, academic historians (on the basis of a multiplicity of historical evidence) reached the historical consensus that Oduduwa flourished c. 1000 CE, and Oranmiyan flourished around the late 1100s. This historical conclusion is not inconsistent with our traditional accounts that Oranmiyan was indeed “one of the youngest grandsons of Oduduwa” — the time-span (of more than 100 years apart) separating their respective prominences is a reality (a quite easily obtainable one at that) even in our present times. So far, the historical conclusions — in the light of our traditions — imply that the respective prominences of Oduduwa (e.g. his reign as an O[gh]oni at Ife) and of his grandson, Oranmiyan (e.g. his expedition to Benin) have a gap of more than 100 years in between. Is this number consistent with the earlier cited Benin traditions on the Ogiso monarchy? Let’s see. The number of Ogisos have continued to grow from one writing to another with the passage of time (with some writers listing over 30 of them by some names). You have alluded here to 20 instead of over 30. These discrepancies are expected. It may be rooted in folks’ need to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people by pushing their ‘ancestors’ as farther back into the past as possible. However, the number of the Ogisos of Igodomigodo as given in the earliest received and published listing (i.e. per the earliest editions of Chief J. U. Egharevba’s works) is a reasonable number to adopt as accurate. Chief J. U. Egharevba’s informants who (according to Bradbury “had grown to maturity” prior to the modern world) would appear to be more retentive of the events of old than later-day informants, et al. As such, the number of the Ogisos given in the early works of Chief J.U. Egharevba is twelve (12) from Igodo to Owodo (both of them inclusive). In other words, the early records of Benin traditions on the Ogiso indicate that twelve (12) Ogisos reigned in Igodomigodo between Oduduwa’s “prominence” and Oranmiyan’s “prominence”. IF (for want of a better estimate) the generic average of a thirteen (13) year length of kingly reign [which has been seen as quite authoritative for this region of the Guinea forest of W/Africa for olden times. ~ Sargeant, 1984, p.27] is applied; this would result in a time-span of about 163 years between the beginning of the Ogiso (during Oduduwa’s reign) and the close of the Ogiso (during Oranmiyan expedition to ‘Benin’). ~ The Math: 13 years average reign * 12.5 reigns = 162.5 years (estimate). In sum, the early Benin traditions imply that Oduduwa (the Ife king at the outset of the Ogiso monarchy) is separated from Oranmiyan (at the end of the Ogiso monarchy) by more than 100 years. It is very, very crucial to note that the Ogisos could, in fact, have possibly numbered up to thirty-one (31). It is not uncommon in our region that a monarch whose reign is very, very short-lived in relation to what is considered normal (i.e. a reign of about1 year) is usually omitted from the early palaces’ oral listings. However, factoring this possibility [of some nineteen “omitted”, “short-reigned” Ogisos; with an average reign of one year each] into the estimate does actually improves it rather than undermine it. Having clarified, this estimate (which is implied by the early Benin traditions) is corroborated by a separate & independent result which dates Oodua to fl. 1000CE and Oranmiyan to fl. 1195CE — that is, more than 100 years apart.  I will be tilted to believe this narrative now, he couldn't have come to Benin City of today and yet nowhere in the whole of Benin City is Yoruba spoken not even by a minute clan,First of all, I would advice that you read. I am shocked that you have zero clue on things I expected that you would know. Even the early Benin traditions (prior to the iZoDuWa fabrication) states clearly that Oranmiyan camped at a place called Usama (not at the present site of the palace). His son is also said to have been born at Ego and was raised at Use (also not at the present palace site. Having educated you on that, your logic is still flawed even if his presence had left the influence of Yoruba language on the Binis. Your logic is flawed because some eyewitness writing exists which notes that a fair number of Bini populace spoke some Portuguese centuries ago. However, Portuguese is not spoken anywhere in Benin today — not even by a minute clan or a single person. You get the gist now. Having said that, the use of the Yorubas’ language in Benin is a widely attested phenomenon beyond any reasonable doubt. A writing from the 1600s (a letter written by a French Father who visited Benin kingdom for the purpose of establishing a Christian mission there) testifies to the fact that Yoruba language was at the time the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (i.e. an esteemed language used alongside the native one). Even the palace that was said to be Yoruba speaking gave Ozolua the name Okpame as a prince -entirely intelligible to the Edo man, Ovonranwmen was Idugbowa-also entirely Intelligible to the Edo man, and so with most of the princes if not all. History seem more or less like a ruse to me. And also Igueghae who was said to have taught Bini bronze Casting that is sad to be from Ife is with a Bini name A little scratch on the surface of linguistics (etymology and glottochronology in particular) would have left you better guided in this specific regard. For example (on “etymology”), had there not been the need for the older generations to preserve the story surrounding Eweka’s name; its root and hence its meaning would have been completely lost to us. Following your logic, we may now then propose that the palace probably originally spoke neither Yoruba nor Edo. This proposition is a wrong one, and we can now confidently say it is wrong only because we are lucky enough to have the traditions surrounding that name preserved and passed down to us. Furthermore, the outward unintelligibility of certain words, etc. can also be explained from the standpoint of “glottochronology”. Linguistics have have established the following: (1) The present-day different dialects of a language (the Yoruba language for example) all used to be one and the same exact singular language the farther back in time you go. (2) The present-day differentiations in these dialects (of the Yoruba language for example) are the result of (a) natural linguistic evolutions, and (b) novel linguistic innovations, among others. (3) Linguistic studies have reached the conclusion that the dialects spoken in central Yorubaland is the result of far more linguistic innovations than in other parts of Yorubaland. As such, many consonant sounds (or even complete words) which have remained preserved/unchanged in the Yoruba frontier areas have been been met with some innovative elision/replacements in central Yorubaland in the course of the centuries. In the light of this education, it is therefore clear why certain words which used to be present in use in the past by all these people is now lost to some (or even all) of them. Some words which are similarly slipping away even in our present-times is the word “Oluku” (for “friend”) or “Ogho” (for the city of “Owo”) among many others. (4) This very linguistic concept is the same that applies between languages (not only within a language). (5) Linguistics show that the present languages of the Yoruba, Igala, Edo, Idoma, Ebira, Nupe, Kakanda, Igbo, and Gbagyi all differentiated in the very distant past from one and the same very language. In the light of the foregoing education, what appears to be words intelligible only to the Edos are in reality words which used to be mutually intelligible not only to Edos and Yorubas (but also to others as well), and vice versa. It only so happens that by the passage of time, many words which the Edos still hold in use (due to the very minimal linguistic innovation within their group) have been replaced and lost to time and to innovation among the other related groups. This explanation is further bolstered by the fact that within the Yoruba group, little linguistic innovation in their language is observed along the eastern Yoruba frontiers, around the north-east Yoruba corner, and in the south-east Yoruba axis — areas nearer to the Edo region where minimal linguistic innovation is also observed. In addition to the foregoing linguistic explanations, it must also be borne in mind that the influences must have been two-ways rather than one-way. In other words, while there must have been influence from the Yoruba side, the native Edo side must also have played its role — especially considering the fact that the Yoruba patrilineal monarchs also have native indigenous parents as well among other factors. In any case, some of the kings’ names (as evolved as they are) is intelligible from a Yoruba standpoint. Also, Portuguese used to be spoken by some Binis. Peace!  Cc: nisai, FairlyUSEDpussy, theTranslator, macof 9 Likes 4 Shares |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 6:03pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
UGBE634: (1) Do you also want to be enlightened on each of the so-called 5 cLAiMs? — none of which is actually a cLAiM made/initiated by the Yorubas. Let me know what you think. Lol. (2) The classical (pre-1800) connection between father-IFe and son-Benin obviously did not begin with Eweka II contrary to what your resolutely fraudulent brother will love that you believe. I have already established this (while debunking your brother’s superficial innuendos on the other thread) by adducing historical evidences such as artifacts and texts both dating to the 1400a/1500s. Cc: nisai, FairlyUSEDpussy, theTranslator 9 Likes 3 Shares |
| Re: Th by HornyTave: 6:13pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
UGBE634: I'm Ishan, My ancestors left Benin during the reign on Ewuare the first. 2 kings Later, was Ozolua whom Agba'nojie fought. Then came Esigie who fought Idah through Agenegbode. Talking about names and what they mean is simple, names and how words are pronounced changes over time. Same way new words are introduced, pronounced differently etc. For, example, the English language has uograded, changed and will continue to change. There are many names in my language I don't know the meaning. My grand father gave my elder brother his 3rd name, nobody we have asked knows the meaning but that doesn't mean the name is foreign 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Th by Christistruth00: 6:15pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
The Deal Is done King Sola is the new Olu of Warri !! Gregboy you can tell your boys to return the Olu of Warri’s Stolen Crown now, you promised he wouldn’t be Crowned and you almost pulled it off, we underestimated the length to which you and your boys would go Thank God the Itsekiri’s had a back up Crown in Storage Gregboy your boys really tried , they almost Pafuka the entire Coronation And for what reason just bescause King Sola had a Yoruba Mama But the Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man so what is your Problem exactly ? At a point it was looking like he would be kidnapped before he got a chance to get anywhere near the Throne if not for Gods Mercy and the determination of the Itsekiri People May King Sola’s reign be Wonderful and Long. and may Jesus always guide and Protect him Cc TAO12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37AEcpPppqA 8 Likes |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 6:29pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
Christistruth00:Yes oo. We won again. We are used to winning. Thank God. 10 Likes
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| Re: Th by UGBE634: 6:34pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
TAO12:The Benin/Ife claim is actually a ruse. ( |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 6:42pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
UGBE634:You had upheld the fact that there exists an ancient link between Ife and Benin, However, at the very instant when I made you realize that academic and professional historians submitted that the link is actually one of Father-Ife & son-Benin (and not vice versa), you miraculously concluded that there was actually never any link between Ife & Benin in the ancient times. How miraculous & convenient?! My humble advice is that you should accept whatever history throws at you regardless of how little it makes you feel, or how it bruises you. Such is life. Having said that, you are yet to answer my foregoing humble question which you quoted which reads: “Do you also want to be enlightened on each of the so-called 5 cLAiMs? — none of which is actually a cLAiM made/initiated by the Yorubas. Let me know what you think. Lol.” Peace! 9 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: Th by Christistruth00: 7:12pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
TAO12: Gregboy hasn’t turned up yet, he and his boys might still be busy drowning their Sorrows with some bottles of Sapele Water 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Th by nisai: 7:34pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
Christistruth00:Gregboy will not sleep well tonight. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Th by Olu317(m): 8:51pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
HornyTave:Ekalardan founded Ughotto and died there in 11 century. His descendants are still alive today overthere . The distance between Bini and Ughotton or Gwatto s 42 kilometres . So stop lying to yourself. Oduduwa shrine is North i.e towards NorthEast Ileife. While Obatala is at the centre of Ileife. Below is screenshot of where Ekalardan founded with his descendants stil living in that land. Revisionism is bad for you Edos. Meanwhile, ride on with this cruise. 2 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: Th by OneNigerian: 10:09pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
I am an historian, I was amused at your story for I know that story well. In reality Bini bronzes and artefacts are much older than Ile Ife and the Yoruba as a political collective of kingdoms. Even the Igbos are related to the Yoruba according to certain dna tests. The Yorubas were separated from the Igbo at some point in their history if this was true but it needs further dna tests to verify this scientist claims. Because some of the Igbos migrated from ancient Israel when or before the Roman Empire colonised the Middle East. The Igbos claimed that Yoruba land was submerged under water along with the Niger delta which was a swamp in the ancient times. That would place them around 25,000 years ago if it was true. Dna tests says my mothers ancestors lived in Nigeria 25,000 years ago and migrated from somewhere else traveling across Africa on the coastlines. She also have ancient Egyptian bloodlines like my father who came from Bini. A people in west Africa have an even more older version of ancient Egyptian alphabet, knowledge of constellations etc. That was verified on tape. They are among the few or many migrations to West Africa as our ancestors preferred the jungle and they saw the great mega late Chad the biggest on the planet during up over 8,000 years. They choose Nigeria because of the river Niger which changes its causes and flowed downwards many times just like the Nile changed its course. The current Oba of Bini came from a very long line of kings in the second dynasty of kings which is older than any historical Yoruba kingdom. Sacred Eweka the first founded the Bini empire and he is at least over 1000 years older than Oduduwa so Oranmiyan’s so is just a name sake and not him. Archeological dig of Ile Ife and Bini would also tell you which was older. Bini predates Ogodomogodo. The Binis know their history and ancient locations and the king is practically forced to travel through them all before he can be crowned Oba of Bini. We have seen the age of Igbo Oku and Aro Chukwu because of a little archeological dig. How old do you assume Bini would be? Two the Bini royal line are a direct branch of ancient Egyptian Pharaohs and god kings who were black Africans who abandoned Egypt when the desert started to kill their jungles and threatened their civilisation including wars from Asia etc. The current Arabs who live in Egypt came from migrant warriors who were rewarded with lands as mere military servants of the gods of Egypt and it’s documented on archeological digs. The others came from Arab and Muslim conquest. The damaged the pyramids and used its stones to bu the city of Cairo. No true black who do that to the monument of their ancestors. Only migrants do that throughout the history of man on this planet. The ancient Egyptians were a pre- Bronze Age civilisation too. And the dominant nation or empire on the planet when all nations of the Bronze Age collapsed in domino effect from the mighty Babylon to the great warrior empire of Assyria. Only Egypt survived and kept the knowledge of man which the moors of West Africa took to the Hyberian peninsula of Spain in Europe to reboot Europe’s western civilisation out of the dark ages. They were Muslim Africans and that led to our colonisation and the racism blacks suffered because white people fear us based our great ancient past and the resources at our disposal. I am a direct descendant of these black ancient Egyptian Africans and my dna test placed many pharaohs in my bloodline on both sides of my family and I am from delta state and know my own history. My village came we came from Bini elite. Today I only have 75 percent Bini blood left in me. Ife produced magnificent bronze works on the level of the Bini empire bronzes for a while then the Yoruba lost that knowledge. The bini still do it. Maybe the Bini men that came with their crown prince Oduduwa and prince Oranmiyan died without passing on that knowledge found passed down in Bini from father to son continually for thousands of years. Bini ruled west Africa all the way to Senegal once. They left settlement of people all across west Africa including Ghana. Benin republic �� next door to Nigeria cane from Bini and they still do bronze art work and voodoo worship to this day. Why did Ile Ife lost the knowledge of bronze art works after being so advanced? It was never destroyed in wars? Maybe because it was an imported knowledge from a more advanced ancient civilisation with an advanced city complete with city walls and defence water most surrounding it with buildings using bronze roof sheets and the most expensive currency in the world bronze used to decorate its buildings until the British burnt it down and a jealous rage and did the same in Ghana. Only the Bini and Ghanaians the the people they influenced wear wrappers along with the Igbos like ancient Egyptians. Food for thought? Parts of Yoruba land including Lagos state were the colonies of the Bini empire when the British destroyed the empire so they can colonise Nigeria. Fact. Bini founded Eko known as Lagos because of the Portuguese who served the mighty Bini for 100 years as mercenaries. The bones of Oduduwa need to be dug up for a dna test to settle this debate once and for all. He came from Asia or Bini according to history as he was no a Yoruba man. Another undeniable historical fact. In your story the queen actually tried to kill Oduduwa out of jealousy because is mother was lower compared to the other wives of the Bini king at the time. He was clever and talked his way into a permanent exile and vowed never to return. This solved the fear and the dilemma of the palace guards who knew that it was a forbidden taboo to kill a Bini royal let alone the only surviving prince of a bloodline. The king Oduduwa’s father was given a false oracle prophecy by the jealous queen and a priest that the gods want him to kill his only son so his wives can have many sons. I think the king couldn’t father sons for he had many wives and concubines and yet only one son. Stop believing the history that the white msn thought you. First he killed your religion and your gods made you worship his, then you honoured his ancestors instead of yours. Then he took your name and identity and left you traumatised before he enslaved you. Open your eyes and stop needless arguments my fellow Africans, research your history and learn more facts to update or correct what we already know. 25,000 years in Nigeria and all we know is 3,000 years only? Why? |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 10:26pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
I chose to ignore the remaining crap you wrote and focus instead on the bolded crap. OneNigerian:Would you provide evidence for the bolded crap? Or should we believe you wrote a long piece of crap? 7 Likes
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| Re: Th by OneNigerian: 10:30pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
FairlyUSEDpussy: Your evidence is 100 percent bullshit you complete historical ignorant person. You quote the British who commuted genocide in Bini like they did in Lagos. They burnt down a city and stole over 1.5 million advanced bronze work so advanced at the time that the white man lacked the knowledge and skill to duplicate them. They all (western white nations from USA to Australia) had an orgasm when they saw them and bought most of them from the British. The tried to end the royal family by deporting them to die outside Bini. If they succeeded Bini would not exist any more. They tried their 100 percent best to wipe it from history si Nigeria can be colonised. The Oba of Bini in the 1400s can order 1 million men into battle. It takes political and financial organisation at the highest level of state to make that happen even today. The collective Yoruba nation never managed in their entire history. Bini city is older then the Yoruba nation by at least 1,500 years comfortably. Dig up ile ife and Benin archeologically and what is buried under the soil can never lie. Everything the white man thought fools like you was 100 percent lies. They never discovered America, they never discovered the river Niger or even Australia for that matter. 100 percent historical facts with balanced facts written by a British man Royal Navy submarine commander Gavin Menzies in his book with the tittle: 1421 The Year China Discovered The World. An international best seller that is rewritten history and that is just one of a dozen proven fact out there. The continent of a Europe was not mathematically advanced enough to even chart maps correctly or calculate longitude and latitude for a few after. They were just a bunch of tourists on the high seas using maps drawn by the Chinese to navigate the seas going to places other men had been to and telling lies to their own people when they returned home. The Pope knew, their kings knew. And you historical idiots don’t know your history and you use the white man as reference. He colonised your brains � and gave you a different narrative and like unintelligent people completely falling away from their ancestors you never questioned anything they said or ask questions. If they said your ancestors lived in caves and on trees for 25,000 years until they brought knowledge you swallow it hook and sinker because oyinbo said so. Ewu! � |
| Re: Th by samuk: 10:38pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
UGBE634: My brother, I am glad you now see all the lies. The trouble with all these fairytales and fabrications that started after the fall of Benin in 1897 is that there are just too many holes in them that when you start interrogating them, the story start to fall apart. The biggest problem for the Yoruba is that Benin actually have documented eyewitness historical accounts. I mean Europeans were in Benin for centuries documenting all aspects of Edo lives until 1897 and not a single mention of Benin/Ife relationship. How can the Europeans documents Benin history for over 400 years, every country and nothing is said about Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan. How can the Oba of Benin be from Ife and no Oba of Benin had Yoruba names. Not even their children have Yoruba names. Not a single prince or princess is recorded in Benin history to have a Yoruba name until 1897. The truth is Benin was the capital city and headquarters of a great empire/kingdom that attracted talents from all part of the then southern and middle belt Nigeria. The Yorubas, Urhobo, Ijaws, Igbos, etc, all served in different capacities and under the Oba of Benin. Iyase Okoro Otu which a very popular road in the old G.R.A was named after was from Akure, an Ijaw man was also an Iyase in Benin, the Obaseki are originally from Anioma in Delta state, the current Iyase of Benin, Chief Igbe is of Urhobo ancestry. The Esans were mostly the military generals, chief Ezomo is said to be of Esan ancestry. Yoruba obsession with Benin have no boundaries, they are literally mesmerised by Benin culture, tradition and history. Imagine these guys celebrating the new Olu of Warri as if he is Yoruba. The new Olu of Warri repeatedly remainder the audience during his speech that the first Olu of Warri was from Benin and the Olu of Warri is an offshoot of the Benin throne. An Itsekiri delegation was sent to the Oba of Benin on Friday to officially let him know of Saturday's coronation. Throughout the speech the new Olu reference to Yoruba was that his mother was from Yoruba. I didn't hear any references to the Ooni or Ife. I sometimes feel sorry for these guys for the way they are always trying to attached themselves to everything Benin. It's not a crime that Oyo and Ife history with the Europeans started proper in 1824, 400 years after Benin have been dealing with the Europeans. The Yoruba now prides themselves as the most sophisticated but they can't take their eyes off Benin history. I don't understand what sort of sophisticated people they are. The Benin people and their Oba have said they are not Yoruba, but the Yorubas won't rest, is it by force. 1 Like |
| Re: Th by TAO12: 10:52pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
PS: Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king. Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin began to have kings on recently — or that Benin kings (if they exist) never had names? Similarly, throughout the centuries of the interactions with the Europeans, there is no single record of any relationship between Benin and Onitsha. Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin had no relationship with Onitsha until in recent times? ————————— You are actually to foolish to be ignored because to ignore has a specially foolish meaning to you. To you it means that you’re stating FaCtS. Joker. Moreover, you are also resolutely fraudulent because this very crap you heaped above have been even to your satisfaction on a different thread. The Devastating Refutation: Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist. NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain. This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings. In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language]. The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample. This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife. In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”. For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to: (A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S. (B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206). This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king. Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.). Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife” Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps. There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria. These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal. In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places. Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively. These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below. The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17. The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife. What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom. Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years]. ~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19. For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to: (A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc (B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89. (C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4. In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom. In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively. Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works: A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al. A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47. Peace! Cc: nisai, FairlyUSEDpussy, theTranslator. UGBE634 7 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: Th by theInterpreter: 11:33pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
nisai: 1 Like |
| Re: Th by samuk: 11:47pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
The people of Benin and their Oba have openly declared that they are not Yoruba. The Yorubas whose kingdom of Oyo and Ife didn't have an eyewitness written historical accounts until 1824 is trying to prove to Benin whose eyewitness historical accounts started in the 1400s that Benin are Yoruba. In terms of actual eyewitness written historical evidence, Benin is about 400 years older than both Oyo and Ife. These baby kingdoms want to lecture their 400 years seniors. The Benin people and their Oba said they are not Yoruba, Yoruba people should let it rest. No amount of cut and paste gibberish will change the fact that Benin and Oba of Benin are not Yoruba. Write from here till thy kingdom come, it changes nothing. The people have the rights to determine who they are and on this, the Benin and Oba of Benin have spoken, Benin are not Yoruba people. The simple and sensible question is, why will Benin deny being Yoruba if really they are. Why will you deny your blood relatives. Why are Benin not denying other Edoid people. Benin is Edo and Edo is Benin. Edo and Benin are not Yoruba. |
| Re: Th by Olu317(m): 11:52pm On Aug 21, 2021 |
Christistruth00:Verify this name, if the written.alphabets are correct as well as the meaning: Use oritse wara mi: Itsekiri dialect Uṣe oríṣa wó ara mi Uṣe oríṣa wa ara mi Uṣe oríṣa wa ni ara mi Uṣẹ oríṣa wó ara mi Uṣẹ oríṣa wa ni ara mi Uṣẹ oríṣa wa ni ara mi Yoruba traditional dialect : wó uṣẹ oriṣa ni ara mi Yoruba: woṣẹolúwaniarami Yoruba muslim: wo ṣẹ ọlọ̀hún ni ara mi Yoruba christian:wo ṣẹ ọlọ̀rún ni ara mi Meaning: glory of God upon me, blessing of God upon me, blessing of forebear upon me. 2 Likes |
| Re: Th by UGBE634: 2:47am On Aug 22, 2021 |
samuk:Bros na lie I have seen through it all, What Is evident here is that they try to defend their lie by whatever means, how can you tell me that the Ogiso came from Ife, Ife a yoruboid group, I can interpret Okpame, Idugbowa, and Aiguobasiwmin in today world and I know my ancestors can interpret it too. If Yoruba was to be related to Igbo and Edo in the way that they could hear them , it certainly would be Five thousand years back not this very millennium that preceded ours,that is why Esans (Igueben) that migrated as much as five hundred years ago can still hear Bini up to Eighty percent. If you will go your way to argue about those names which Obviously do not have any meaning in Yoruba or Igbo as they are pure Edo names. In the DNA world, Edo is a thing, in the linguistic world and cultural world Edo is also a thing, If what you said about those things would pull through, then Olokun and Oba would pull through for Edos by logic since they could hear each other in the past. It must have been indigenous to Edo too and maybe die out in ancient times. There are some things in history we should be able to separate facts from Junks, whether it was told by drunkards, it does not matter, does it resonate with today's reality. If it does not then it is Junks, If the Igbankes who have been with us for thousands of years can't even hear a bit of Edo that means in the last millennium they couldn't still hear too. The Usens would not have been regarded as Edos too but for their bilingual nature. Names Like Oluwagbemi, etc have been settled since the last millennium but yet none of the princes came up with any not even one except with the scam at the top. The Benin palace knew better not to stretch it further else their interpretation would have been a joke and they would have received an uproar from the Binis. You always see them with double standard. Them telling you interpret Eze chima for me, he was Igbo and you can't interpret it. Interpret Oba for me Interpret Olokun for me and they come back to still take what is exclusively Edo. How can you tell me that a people couldn't rule themselves at all that your tribe has to be a recurring decimal even at the Very rural and Basic level and you want to tell me that is not history pushing and greatness claiming. I know better not to accept Junks as an adult. 1 Like 1 Share |
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