[b]There are practices, strategies and equipment that are essentially there's barest minimum and then there’s the basic standard.

Now standard should have some relationship to national wealth (GDP), ability and socio-economic/poitical expectation regional and international. What standard do we have or expect from our Military or like electricity do we expect darkness and failure always.

How many MI35’s do we have that are operational? These attack helicopters are far from the best they should have infra red imaging, however, I doubt this. My suspicions are that our dearest wife corruption, misappropriation, over inflation has made us by substandard and second hand equipment. This should be no surprise, are our officers not selling equipment to the same militants? (30,000 AK47’s missing from the armoury of the Nigerian armoury)

If you trained with the SAS, Navy seals, and Delta Force with the best equipment you get home and they give you an AK47 and say go on do your job it’s a waste of time.

We make $150 million dollars a day from oil at least. When our Uncles, Grandfathers and Mothers in power want to buy cars for themselves they don’t buy Lada, Volga and Moskvitch. They know how to get the latest of the latest Lexus, BMW, Merc. And Cadillac.

However, when it comes to national security we look for Chinese, Russian, Indian etc.

Our Air force, Navy & Army would fail comprehensively by commensurate and comparative analysis.

Egypt has been buying F16’s and F18’S for over 25 years one F18 will take out 5 Mig 21’s upgraded or not, ask Iran and Iraq they will testify. Egypt’s GDP does not exceed ours.

Ocelot 2006 I respect your comments and your optimism. [/b]


you make very good points here. as you've said, corruption has really affected the military. i saw the news about some army officers arrainged for court martial, and i really hope they face the firing squad .But unlike most people on this thread, i still appreciate the little sacrifices the military has made for us nigerians, i still have a lot of hope in them, as i do for my country.

by the way, you forgot one thing about Egypt. The US gives Egypt a large amount of defence aid ever since the end of the yom-kippur war, provided they live in peace with isreal.that's why they are able to but (at a reduced price). so they've been spoon-fed basically, unlike us.But we're always active within and outside the continent, ready to help our fellow brothers, unlike the egyptians.

you also forgot that , `though we've made lots of profits due to the high price of oil, there are other sectors of the country that requires more attention like the power sector, health care and education. in the end, we may not have enough money to buy all the kits that our boys need.

IR imaging is old technology. Every helicopter bought by us lately from the navy's Augusta 109s,FEMA's mi-14, and the Mil-35 hind gunships are equipped with NVGs. it's a standard for night ops.

i agree that the mig-21 is outdated,and based on old 60s/70s design.it lacks the current avionic suit seen in more modern aircrafts and its operational radius is quite small unless when fitted with external drop tanks. but it is a very capable aircraft. the reason a lot have bn shot down is due to the fact that pilots that flew them were not well trained and that is a very important factor that comes into play in a dog-fight. most countries that flew them had their doctrines based old that of the old soviet union which places a lot of restrictions on the pilot while giving more control to the ground contrllers.in the end,you had pilots that couldn't think for themse

as old and ugly as the AK-47 is, it is hands down the BEST, and MOST RELIABLE rifle in the world. that's why it's design was copied for other rifles like the isreali galil, the finnish valmet, the south african R4. my only problem now is that the military introduce optics as they are now a standard and they improve accuracy. i would also li,e to see the introduction of the HK mp5 for our counter-terror units.But if it makes you happy, we still have other types like the FN-FAL, and g-3.

in all honesty, defense spending should be the least of our priorities. i rather see the police strenghtened to deal with the niger delta problem and others.

The niger delta problem is not a police problem, way beyond the capabilities of any police force, have no doubts this is a military conflict.

With giant of Africa tag we have and our international standing and our vast oil reserves we have no choice but to have a competent military force. Consider the humilation, Nigerian soldiers butchered like chickens by a bunch of Sudanese rag-tag rebels, that situation is completely unacceptable i am sure they didnt have the logistics nor the equipment to respond. This is reality, in Liberia the army didnt even have enough trucks not APC,s just basic trucks to meet thier operational responsibility, maybe the ones they had were tokunboh from berger? UN had to put in an official complaint, imagine!!!

My heart goes out to those our guys, they are almost being commisioned for suicide missions, no body armour, no night vision, no air support, etc, etc.

Do you know that when they go on UN missions they are payed commensurate pay and when they get temp. demobbed at airport all the money is taken off them, i had a few NCO's complaining to me on return from UN peace keeping mission.

Finally the AK47 is rugged & reliable has a higher calibre round but precision zero compared to the SA80 now with UGL or M16 and for most they come with NV sights as standard.

Why can we not buy better ting for our boys eh ?? is it because the big belly generals never see active service as opposed to political service.

With giant of Africa tag we have and our international standing and our vast oil reserves we have no choice but to have a competent military force. Consider the humilation, Nigerian soldiers butchered like chickens by a bunch of Sudanese rag-tag rebels, that situation is completely unacceptable i am sure they didnt have the logistics nor the equipment to respond. This is reality, in Liberia the army didnt even have enough trucks not APC,s just basic trucks to meet their operational responsibility, maybe the ones they had were tokunboh from berger? UN had to put in an official complaint, imagine!!!

I knew the darfur issue was going to come up, so i'll clarify a few things. In darfur we currently have about 4000-7000 combat troops that's also including the Rwandans. Remove the HQ and support personnel and you have a less amount. Now these troops are charged with protecting an area that is roughly the size of france (correct me if i'm wrong).that means that they are heavily extended. as a result of this, it's going to be EXTREMELY difficult to provide reinforcement.To make matters worse, travelling by road is very dangerous and difficult, and there is only one helicopter. This poses a logistical nightmare.

Now at the base that was attacked, we had about 100. let me list out a few things they had to face:

- They faced an enemy that numbered about 1000+ and heavily armed. That meant the ratio was about 10:1 if not more.
- They had NO combat air support. That is the one thing that gives most armies in the west an edge.

With these problems, and the fact that reinforcement was going to take a long time to get to the base simply worked against our boys, and i don't think any military would have done better.At the end of the fire fight, some nigerian soldiers got killed with some MIA. But at least they stood their ground.

Do you know that when they go on UN missions they are payed commensurate pay and when they get temp. demobbed at airport all the money is taken off them, i had a few NCO's complaining to me on return from UN peace keeping mission.

WOW!! Who fed you this rubbish?Soldiers and policemen sent on foreing missions are paid twice as much as their collegues left in the country.Please get your facts straight.

Finally the AK47 is rugged & reliable has a higher calibre round but precision zero compared to the SA80 now with UGL or M16 and for most they come with NV sights as standard.

If i was to choose between the ak-47 and the british sa-80, i would DEFINITELY choose the ak-47 (it's a no-brainer).You only have to go through the negative reviews given about the sa-80, ESPECIALLY by the British army (they were wondering why they didn't just stick to the FN-FAL or buy the far better G-36) to see that it isn't a rifle of choice.As a matter of fact, it's problems were so bad that the british MOD had to call in Heckler & Koch to redesign to rifle.

How cool a rifle looks does not make it a good one, but rather it's reliablity, accuracy, and most of all, the training of man behind the rifle.

My heart goes out to those our guys, they are almost being commisioned for suicide missions, no body armour, no night vision, no air support, etc, etc.

Well, we don't really have many units of NVGs and i really hope we buy more, but the body armour is now a standard issue (at least for those in combat - e.g the Niger-delta). Air support is still a problem due to the low number of helos we have (the BO-105 has been withdrwan from service), but the airforce and navy continues to provide Combat Air support for the army and patrols almost everyday in the Niger-Delta with the mil-35 gunships.

The niger delta problem is not a police problem, way beyond the capabilities of any police force, have no doubts this is a military conflict.

it wouldn't be a police problem. if the police and customs had been able to stop weapon's smuggling. in the US, terrorist groups are disintegrated using the secret service/police. what are the coast guards and Nigerian police doing? nothing. what does Nigeria need a bloated army for when u have an high poverty rate?? create a self-defense force like japan and delay the expansion of the armed forces 4 a while.

it wouldn't be a police problem. if the police and customs had been able to stop weapon's smuggling. in the US, terrorist groups are disintegrated using the secret service/police. what are the coast guards and Nigerian police doing? nothing. what does Nigeria need a bloated army for when u have an high poverty rate?? create a self-defense force like japan and delay the expansion of the armed forces 4 a while.

We do not have a bloated army.1999, the size of the military was slashed from 200,000+ to a mere 80,000 (combined arms) and it is still that way. this is far less than what most african countries have.Normally, it would have been a bad thing due to the low manpower, it but it made more sense `cos:
- we now have a military that is much more mobile.
-the fire power has really improved.
-the country saves more money. The extra money could be used to improve their welfare and training.More gears could be bought.

i wouldn't advice that the Nigerian military be transformed to a defense force. what we need is a military that is small, well trained, and highly mobile. Besides, the best form of defense is attack.

i wouldn't advice that the Nigerian military be transformed to a defense force. what we need is a military that is small, well trained, and highly mobile. Besides, the best form of defense is attack.

the best defense isn't always attack in all cases. the germans went on attack in the battle of bulge and see how that ended up?? the nigerian millitary has no real threats other than cameroun. i see no reason why we can't have a self-defense force like japan with paramillitaries and voluntary service in case of emergency(like switzerland). our defensive capabilities especially the navy should be enhanced rather than wasting money on peacekeeping missions when we don't even have peace in our own home. the nigerian navy needs cruisers and destroyers to deal with the niger delta problem. streamline the army IMO.

Nigeria Army are the best in Africa but with the worst Police see the below

Is that what Nigerian fighter pilots wear? Cool!

the best defense isn't always attack in all cases. the germans went on attack in the battle of bulge and see how that ended up?? the nigerian millitary has no real threats other than cameroun. i see no reason why we can't have a self-defense force like japan with paramillitaries and voluntary service in case of emergency(like switzerland). our defensive capabilities especially the navy should be enhanced rather than wasting money on peacekeeping missions when we don't even have peace in our own home. the nigerian navy needs cruisers and destroyers to deal with the niger delta problem. streamline the army IMO.

WRONG. The germans failed in world war 2 because of one thing: they opened a new front in the east (operation barbarossa) and that was a very big mistake.

Also, you are so wrong to say that we don't have enemies. You only have to go through security briefings to see the real picture.
- Most francophone countries in west africa don't like us simply because we're the top dog in the region. That's why they covertly provided charles taylor with support. Why do you think we weren't so keen in helping ivory coast when they had problems? Go figure it.

-oil is currently a very important resource in the major economies in the world. the middleeast is boiling, venezuela could decide to close the tap, so their next option is africa.so, if causing problems within the country is going to provide them with cheap oil,they'll do it.

-Nigeria's status as a country that is not under the sphere of any major power, and the fact that we influence what happens in Africa has not really endeared us to some countries both in the west and east.

- heavily armed raiders that come in from our northern borders shared with Chad.There's currently fears that the currently fears that the fighting in chad will spill over to nigeria, and the military is currently on red alert.

-Finally, you have the foes within e.g niger-delta militants, MASSOB.

So you see, the fact that we have people smiling at us doesn't mean that they wish us well.

To battle the militants, what they need are lots of heavily armed gunboats that can operate in shallow waters and helicopters. They should buy more mil-35 (it's one of the best in its class), use the pumas and augusta 109s for transport.

WRONG. The germans failed in world war 2 because of one thing: they opened a new front in the east (operation barbarossa) and that was a very big mistake.

i'm not talking about why they lost, i'm talking about their defensive strategy while retreating. the battle of the bulge is an example of why offense isn't always the best defense.


Most francophone countries in west africa don't like us simply because we're the top dog in the region. That's why they covertly provided charles taylor with support. Why do you think we weren't so keen in helping ivory coast when they had problems? Go figure it.

venezuela doesn't like the US. but that doesn't mean the US considers venezuela a millitary threat. countries like benin,niger, and ivory coast wouldn't even dare invade nigeria. let's be realistic here.

Nigeria's status as a country that is not under the sphere of any major power, and the fact that we influence what happens in Africa has not really endeared us to some countries both in the west and east.

actually no, nigerian influence is limited to sub-saharran africa(mainly west africa). we have little to no influence in southern africa or north africa which is much more influenced by the arab league and OIC. the giant of africa theory is a myth. we are indeed largely influenced by the british. the british embassy have played a key role in nigerian coup de tat.


heavily armed raiders that come in from our northern borders shared with Chad.There's currently fears that the currently fears that the fighting in chad will spill over to nigeria, and the military is currently on red alert.

they won't be threat if u had a real police force and border guards. the mexican mafia knows not to go deep into texas or california. that's a death sentence for them.



Finally, you have the foes within e.g niger-delta militants, MASSOB.

the rise of these groups shows the inefficiency of the nigerian secret service and police. why haven't they been infiltrated yet. i support a self-defense force and nothing more until the government can afford the expenses.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/65333_002_jpg11f5315d0fdebb3df4e4554339df02f2

these are the ugliest uniforms i have ever seen. orange and brown is that supposed to be a sort of camouflage??

To battle the militants, what they need are lots of heavily armed gunboats that can operate in shallow waters and helicopters. They should buy more mil-35 (it's one of the best in its class), use the pumas and augusta 109s for transport.

  My approach to this problem will be from two perspectives, in the first instance a socio-economic as well as political has to be proffered.   The people have to be on your side, communities have to be engaged, & I don’t mean a few selfish big belly chiefs seeking self interest to the detriment of anybody else.
This the mangrove swamp you can stand on the shore line and hear a patrol boat a mile away one RPG, end of patrol boat, and they’ll slip into the natural cover and darkness of the swamp even in the daytime. Heavily armoured boats are too heavy, too noisy and not fast enough.
You need units of Special Forces well armed with laser technology identifying targets on the ground for Apache (my preferred attack helicopter) to take out. Special Forces operating independently in the mangrove (stealth) but with co-ordinated communications for 7days at a time without need  for supplies, combing the terrain and taking out targets.
Egbesu boys are not suicide fighters, some are just hungry and some are genuine within a few months, motivation will die matter go end.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/65334_003_jpg9c3c0da200c92b4703ae40246d591184

This picture is a class picture of a class being trained at the air weapons college kainji, the aircraft there is the light trainer called the alpha jet, u wont believe all the students share that alpha and the same trainer is used for ground offensives when the Airforce call upon it, A friend of mine that went to the college said he neva had the opportunity of being traine in that aircraft cos it ws on national duty some where, We dont have a military and thats the truth another bitter truth is that we cant afford a modern fightin force now.

these are the ugliest uniforms i have ever seen. orange and brown is that supposed to be a sort of camouflage??

The british and australians use the orange flight suit.but i guess in your eyes they look better in it than us.We use two flight suits: orange (mainly during traing) and green.

By the way, the "brown" thing you see? It is actually part of the flight kit. Due to the high-Gs combat pilots experience, it is used to restrict blood flow so as to prevent the pilot from blanking out.And it is GREEN.

venezuela doesn't like the US. but that doesn't mean the US considers venezuela a millitary threat. countries like benin,niger, and ivory coast wouldn't even dare invade nigeria. let's be realistic here.

Ivory coast and Burkina faso provided the NPLF and RUF with a safe haven and weapons during th liberian and sierra leonean civil war. So yes, they were, and are still considered a threat to us.

they won't be threat if u had a real police force and border guards. the mexican mafia knows not to go deep into texas or california. that's a death sentence for them.

Right, the US employs the best technology at it's borders at the north with canada and the south with mexico, but immigrants and drug peddlers still sneak through. Do also have to add that the terrain down there is far better than what we have here in nigeria? The sahara desert aint child's play, and you only have to fly over the mangrove swamps, or better still take a speed-boat ride to appreciate what we are up against.All the same, i agree that our border guards (customs) and the police have to be improved.

You need units of Special Forces well armed with laser technology identifying targets on the ground for Apache (my preferred attack helicopter) to take out. Special Forces operating independently in the mangrove (stealth) but with co-ordinated communications for 7days at a time without need for supplies, combing the terrain and taking out targets.

i wouldn't go for the AH-64 apache. I would still stick with the mi-35 (24V).That helicopter is basically a flying tank. it may not have a sophisticated avionic suit as the apache, but it has about the same fire power, if not better.It also has the advantage of being very quiet, making it difficult for the enemy to locate till it's too late. it is also doubles as a utility helicopter, capable of carrying about 7 armed soldiers. And it's extremely capable when it comes to hugging the terrain.No wonder it's ranked among the top 5 combat helicopters in the world and it's nickname (Satan's chariot).

You make an excellent point about the use of special forces, and i totally support it.That is why the army, in conjuction with the navy, have been training a few selected soldiers in the navy's underwater warfare school, and the army's special forces wing at the Infantry Training Centre were they are taught hostage rescue skill,CQBs,etc.Anyway, it's old news. I still believe that we need more fast attack crafts and combat helicopters. These would be used the amphibous units and the JTF so that they could act as a quick-reaction force (QRF) that's also spec-ops capable.They'll support the special forces elements.

My approach to this problem will be from two perspectives, in the first instance a socio-economic as well as political has to be proffered. The people have to be on your side, communities have to be engaged, & I don’t mean a few selfish big belly chiefs seeking self interest to the detriment of anybody else.


Again, excellent points.

This picture is a class picture of a class being trained at the air weapons college kainji, the aircraft there is the light trainer called the alpha jet, u wont believe all the students share that alpha and the same trainer is used for ground offensives when the Airforce call upon it, A friend of mine that went to the college said he never had the opportunity of being traine in that aircraft because it ws on national duty some where, We don't have a military and thats the truth another bitter truth is that we can't afford a modern fightin force now.

That is NOT the alpha jet. That is the L-39 albatross used for advance flight training, and it could also double as a light-armed combat aircraft.

This is the alpha jet:

Do we have an Army in Nigeria? Primary school question, answer:they are in the Niger Delta creeks selling arms to youths, were you not in this counrty when 2 naval shipps disappear from the Nigerian sea? you say where was the navy? Well, before you abuse me, I know the Nigerian Police is not Part of the army, but 2 of their own helicopter just disappeared too. Well the IG says he doesn,t know how it happened.


Sorry if I sound a bit off key.

Do we have an Army in Nigeria? Primary school question, answer:they are in the Niger Delta creeks selling arms to youths, were you not in this counrty when 2 naval shipps disappear from the Nigerian sea? you say where was the navy? Well, before you abuse me, I know the Nigerian Police is not Part of the army, but 2 of their own helicopter just disappeared too. Well the IG says he doesn,t know how it happened.


Sorry if I sound a bit off key.

HABA! Ok that's too much.For heaven's sake, who told you the Nigerian Police have misplaced their helicopters?What i know is that two helicopters (Mil-14s) were donated to them by the Ukrainians.Bros please don't post things you are not sure of.

The ships that dissapeared in the hands of the navy definitely soiled it's name and was felt throughout the military. That was why the top officers involved faced court-martial.

Damn! PTH you too much.Why u finish my brother just like that.Anyway,back to the discussion- I got nothing to contribute.I just feel like crying for motherland.

@ Ocellot2006

That is NOT the alpha jet. That is the L-39 albatross used for advance flight training, and it could also double as a light-armed combat aircraft.

yeah ur very rite its really an L-39 trainer, am gettin rusty i should have looked properly @ where the wings met the fuselage, i made my wrong decision based on the power pack mounting, thanx 4 the correction.

yeah your very rite its really an L-39 trainer, am gettin rusty i should have looked properly @ where the wings met the fuselage, i made my wrong decision based on the power pack mounting, thanx for the correction.

No prob, bro.

Earlier I used the term hungry and genuine in respect of Egbesu boys , these guys are intelligent and not stupid why are they allowing the Ibori’s, Odili’s, Alamieyeseigha ,etc, etc past and present to steal public money without a response from themselves in kind.

In reality every public official in the Delta should have great apprehension if not outright dread and fear. Knowing that reprisal of instant justice at the hands of the Egbesu Boys, will be swift and hard, forget EFCC .

As they say charity begins at home, “lets deal with the thief weh deh house with us b4 we go find de ones for Abuja”. Kidnapping innocent oil workers does not give this struggle credibility, na them thief our money

The Mil 35 may match the Apache for speed but not for manoeuvrability and outright precision stealth and firepower, these things like a ghost you don’t know about it until your hit, this things have cut up a Migs in dog fight, (Iraq war). The night fighting capability and low level flying capability is unmatched. Maybe the Mi-28N (Night Hunter) in few years to come may contend but for now it’s the Apache. Nonetheless, I know the Mil 35 is a lot cheaper, consequently best value may give the Mil 35 some edge.
The probability exists however,for competitive tendering and the US is our main oil importer, and if Obama wins I’m sure they’ll cut us a good juicy big burger deal.

Earlier I used the term hungry and genuine in respect of Egbesu boys , these guys are intelligent and not stupid why are they allowing the Ibori’s, Odili’s, Alamieyeseigha ,etc, etc past and present to steal public money without a response from themselves in kind.

In reality every public official in the Delta should have great apprehension if not outright dread and fear. Knowing that reprisal of instant justice at the hands of the Egbesu Boys, will be swift and hard, forget EFCC .

As they say charity begins at home, “lets deal with the thief weh deh house with us before we go find de ones for Abuja”. Kidnapping innocent oil workers does not give this struggle credibility, na them thief our money

The Mil 35 may match the Apache for speed but not for manoeuvrability and outright precision stealth and firepower, these things like a ghost you don’t know about it until your hit, this things have cut up a Migs in dog fight, (Iraq war). The night fighting capability and low level flying capability is unmatched. Maybe the Mi-28N (Night Hunter) in few years to come may contend but for now it’s the Apache. Nonetheless, I know the Mil 35 is a lot cheaper, consequently best value may give the Mil 35 some edge.
The probability exists however,for competitive tendering and the US is our main oil importer, and if Obama wins I’m sure they’ll cut us a good juicy big burger deal.

Please recheck the apache's technical specifications.it was not designed to be stealthy.But i'll give you one thing, it's onboard array of hi-tech avionics. The apache is also able to engage about 6 targets at the same time, and the hellfire missile is definitely a very deadly and accurate one. However, i still would not choose because of it's high level of maintenance.you only have to go to the current conflict to in iraq and afghanistan to see that the environment alone is already exacting it's toll on that helicopter (at least at the begining).But it's different for the mi-35.

-That helicopter operates in harshest environments in this world

-it is basically a flying armoured tank. The apache can't boast of that.

-The amount of armaments it carries exceeds that of the apache

-it is very quite (believe me, i know), therefor can be used to sneak up behind the enemy. The mujahdeen still have night-mares about that chopper.

-it requires less manpower, and is easy to maintain. In combat that is very important.

- it can also serve as a multipurpose helicopter with it's ability to up to 7 soldiers in it's troop compartment.The apache can't boast of that.

-The mere fact that you're at the business end of that helicopter is enough to give your nightmares for a very long.it looks like a prehistoric predator.The worse thing is that its bite is far worse than its looks. So it's not a suprise that it is called satan's chariot, crocodile,flying tank.

Earlier I used the term hungry and genuine in respect of Egbesu boys , these guys are intelligent and not stupid why are they allowing the Ibori’s, Odili’s, Alamieyeseigha ,etc, etc past and present to steal public money without a response from themselves in kind.

In reality every public official in the Delta should have great apprehension if not outright dread and fear. Knowing that reprisal of instant justice at the hands of the Egbesu Boys, will be swift and hard, forget EFCC .

Right, Now i know that you've not been in the country for quite sometime. Egbesu boys were basically low-life thieves (believe me, no body lost any sleep over them) that robbed boats in the creeks.But the police cracked down on them a long time ago and they're gone.However,i'll admit that what replaced them was far more dangerous, thanks to the politicians that armed them. Before sept 2007,the people in PH lived in absolute fear.almost every day,there were gunshots and people were killed.The police, well, they simply couldn't do jack, and a%#holes like soboma george and ateke ruled.But things changed when they really crossed the line and JTF was called in.Ever since then, they've been hiding in the creeks, while the JTF are busy hunting them down and everything's back to normal.

The EFCC? Now that's the one agency that i, & i believe a lot of Nigerians, have lots of respect for. Every public office holder now knows that the fear of EFCC is the beginning of wisdom.But that's another story.Back to the topic