Sissie:

What if it's bad?

I'd probably withdraw.

Sissie: It's not about priority oh, it's about how you take note of it in the other person oh. Religion is the priority, that we all can agree, level of religiousness is another thing LOL.

Now I understand what you mean.

Assuming you are to choose between the following 2 Muslim guys:

The First guy is very religious, will always uplift your deed and can always help you in any religious matter BUT is not that handsome according to your standard; and
The Second guy is just a Muslim, not really a practicing one, but everybody just know he is a Muslim (you understand the type of Muslim I am saying now) BUT he is handsome/cute according to your desire.

Which one of the two guys will you go for?

tbaba1234:

Islam is beyond praying five times a day and fulfilling the rituals.

It is also about good manners, care for neighbours, concern for orphans and relations. It is about speaking kindly to people.

Many people seperate these things in their minds. It is not uncommon to see a sister with a hijab behaving badly .

I am looking beyond a superficial expression of religiousity.

We know all this, we are not talking about superficial expression. We are saying let's assume in an ideal muslimah, and she's not brainy will you go ahead.

tbaba1234:

Islam is beyond praying five times a day and fulfilling the rituals.

It is also about good manners, care for neighbours, concern for orphans and relations. It is about speaking kindly to people.

Many people seperate these things in their minds. It is not uncommon to see a sister with a hijab behaving badly .

I am looking beyond a superficial expression of religiousity.

But the behaviour part is one of the other things that could be considered.


Going by your definition, we would say that Islam is a way of life and only the person who makes no mistake as they live day in day out fits your criteria.

Which means they would be living like the prophet morning noon and night. With that , nothing else like those you listed above would be important.

Your criterion becomes one.

tbaba1234:

I'd probably withdraw.

Now you've answered the question, which brings to my next point. If that will probably make you withdraw, and we agree her deen is awesome, shouldn't you have checked that first?

deols:

But the behaviour part is one of the other things that could be considered.


Going by your definition, we would say that Islam is a way of life and only the person who makes no mistake as they live day in day out fits your criteria.

Which means they would be living like the prophet morning noon and night. With that , nothing else like those you listed above would be important.

Everyone makes mistakes, I am not talking of perfection.

tbaba1234:

I'd probably withdraw.

Here lies the point.

Sissie:
Now you've answered the question, which brings to my next point. If that will probably make you withdraw, and we agree her deen is awesome, shouldn't you have checked that first?

No, hence the term 'probably'... I can manage to an extent but if it is really bad then id have to reconsider.

I won't manage religion.

Thank you Sissie for asking the questions.

Sometimes it feels like some of us who talk with the whole of our mouth and especially wanting the good things are not the good enough Muslims. Fact is, we all want the same things.



Now, let my goodu luking muscled man be an 'alfa' too.

The super duper good looking, fun loving, sweet tajweed voiced, hard working, rich alfa.


Yayy!!!! Ifallinlove

tbaba1234:

No, hence the term 'probably'... I can manage to an extent but if it is really bad then id have to reconsider.

I won't manage religion.

Exactly my point. I won't manage religion either, and even if it's a probably, there's still a probably. If I can turn someone down for probably lacking in that area, even when they are good Muslims, then it brings the question should it be the 1st thing you check, afterall we both agree it's what we won't manage.

Sissie: How important is looks when searching for a spouse. honest answer oh, tell us your own perspective.please don't turn it into preaching session!!!!

Wanted to post a video on this but the bad server won't let me....

A person's beauty goes beyond the facial appearance... Inner beauty is the most important.

Though we've been told by our dear prophet(s.a.w) to look at what the person looks like, but the look exceeds that.

Sissie: Let me explain better, for those who say religion is first,
What if a man is religious, the consciousness is awesome, but they're so many things you don't like about him, be it physical, personality or otherwise.

1. During the time of the prophet a woman went to meet
The prophet and said she wants to divorce her husband, she said he was the best of the Muslim men, he was a good man, but he was so ugly, that she's scared she might commit kufr and asked for a divorce, and he called the man told him and the man said he would divorce her if she returns the mahr, she said she was willing.
Now in modern term, we all say we prefer a conscious Muslim, some people will even think your shallow for looking at his looks or pockets.
So if you see a woman/man findout their Islam is awesome, but you hate some other things will you go ahead?

Personally I prefer it to be the last thing I check, I don't want to turn a awesome Muslim down because of some other things.

You let the person go and wish them well.

deols:

You got me confused at a point. If we cannot be able to classify people and only Allah does that, then we should just choose whoever calls himself a Muslim?

And that is why there should not be too much demands?

Looking back into the sunnah et all would not put demands on the other person?

Muslims today make marriage too complicated

Of course you cannot be implying that we dont know what marriage entails and that our demands are not genuine enough. Please say it loud and clear and you will find me listening attentively as you convince me on that.

On the akhlaq thing, can u explain further?

Sorry for the confusion, I did not express myself as well as i would have liked, trying to make too many points at once.
Someone said earlier that most people pray five times etc so we all should tick the Muslim box....(not their exact words) my point is that there are many who do complete the basic requirements of the deen but only Allah knows how sincere they are and even within the Ummah people can be classed as Muslim, Mumin or Muhsin. So when looking for a spouse why look for the lowest level of faith? Look into their character, conduct and family to try to get a more comprehensive idea of how they practice in their faith. But at the same time One must ensure that their conduct and character can bear up against similar scrutiny. Don't set standards for others that you cannot stand up to!

No, I meant the fiscal demands put upon potential spouses, Islam makes it simple, the meher should be something reasonable...be a monetary amount or a physical object but culture has eroded this principle, I don't know the Nigerian customs that tie into marriage but the cost of marrying in mine is almost prohibitive and is driving may of our indigenous brothers to marry outside (not that inter racial marriage is bad)

Looking back into the sunnah has nothing to do with your prospective partner, I was just trying to urge all brothers and sisters who are contemplating marriage to learn about the fiqh of marriage, so that they will know what their rights, responsibilities and duties are according to the sunnah.

We all think we know what marriage entails but when we look back into the sunnah the truth will blow your mind, and sadly many of us do not know what is required of us in our marital roles according to the sunnah.

Akhlaq just means manners

I can reccomend some great books as their is no way to cover it all in detail insha allah and i did not intend to offend anyone with my comments I will try to be more clear

deols: Thank you Sissie for asking the questions.

Sometimes it feels like some of us who talk with the whole of our mouth and especially wanting the good things are not the good enough Muslims. Fact is, we all want the same things.



Now, let my goodu luking muscled man be an 'alfa' too.

The super duper good looking, fun loving, sweet tajweed voiced, hard working, rich alfa.


Yayy!!!! Ifallinlove

Nice one! God will grant you and everyone of us our heart desire and wishes.

We have to make compromises, that is why there is a priority list.

Lala_laila:

Sorry for the confusion, I did not express myself as well as i would have liked, trying to make too many points at once.
Someone said earlier that most people pray five times etc so we all should tick the Muslim box....(not their exact words) my point is that there are many who do complete the basic requirements of the deen but only Allah knows how sincere they are and even within the Ummah people can be classed as Muslim, Mumin or Muhsin. So when looking for a spouse why look for the lowest level of faith? Look into their character, conduct and family to try to get a more comprehensive idea of how they practice in their faith. But at the same time One must ensure that their conduct and character can bear up against similar scrutiny. Don't set standards for others that you cannot stand up to!

No, I meant the fiscal demands put upon potential spouses, Islam makes it simple, the meher should be something reasonable...be a monetary amount or a physical object but culture has eroded this principle, I don't know the Nigerian customs that tie into marriage but the cost of marrying in mine is almost prohibitive and is driving may of our indigenous brothers to marry outside (not that inter racial marriage is bad)

Looking back into the sunnah has nothing to do with your prospective partner, I was just trying to urge all brothers and sisters who are contemplating marriage to learn about the fiqh of marriage, so that they will know what their rights, responsibilities and duties are according to the sunnah.

We all think we know what marriage entails but when we look back into the sunnah the truth will blow your mind, and sadly many of us do not know what is required of us in our marital roles according to the sunnah.

Akhlaq just means manners

I can reccomend some great books as their is no way to cover it all in detail insha allah and i did not intend to offend anyone with my comments I will try to be more clear

I thought so too. But you made it seem like it was something no one was already putting into consideration. I bet character is a no.1.

And I have to agree again that no one knows who the mumin is. That is d reason gor my post about people whom everyone thinks is a Muslim from outside but cannot be related with by his family. Many of these people treat their wives like objects.

So as for me, he could show up as being a knowledgeable Muslim. He could even be termed a sheikh or a philantropist. If he doesnt meet the other criteria, I wont be able to be his wife.

Marriage is half of faith.I need to do that happily

Sissie:
Exactly my point. I won't manage religion either, and even if it's a probably, there's still a probably. If I can turn someone down for probably lacking in that area, even when they are good Muslims, then it brings the question should it be the 1st thing you check, afterall we both agree it's what we won't manage.

We all have a list of priorities, some more important than others.

If a woman has the right Islam, then I can manage the brain

If she has brains without islam, no way.

deols:


I thought so too. But you made it seem like it was something no one was already putting into consideration. I bet character is a no.1

I don't seperate character from Islam, I want a character moulded by Islam.

Wizeboy:

Nice one! God will grant you and everyone of us our heart desire and wishes.

If our heart desires are bad n ko?


May Allah grant us the best for this life and the hereafter. Amin.

tbaba1234:

I don't seperate character from Islam, I want a character moulded by Islam.

But people dont have to be Muslims before having good characters and you cannot call someone who prays, fasts, does hajj and even participate in the jihad of fighting as not a Muslim because they lack some manners.


I believe that put in the context of this discourse, character was meant to stand differently. If not, Islam would simply be defined as a way of life and anyone who lives the Islamic or prophetic life would be the only ones deemed to be called Muslims.

alot said... During working hour..... Hmmm..... Noted lot of em.

Yes it's priority, but it's important to note my question isn't about priority.

You meet a guy/girl you find yourself attracted to the person (beauty)
You start talking and like the way the person thinks, or you think oh he's not too bad, not great but not a no no (brain),
You got talking and find out more about his family and him (family).
You observe how the person view the world and his personality, and you think great or not bad or its manageable (compatibility)
And you think to your self this is nice, and you start looking at the person deeper, observing, look at their character, how they interact, ask him questions that has to do with Deen, and all that tbaba and lala-laila listed (religion) you are ok with it, great masha Allah, it's time to fix date. If your not ok with it you call it quit, and start looking for someone else.

In this scenario, it doesn't mean religion isn't the most important, it's is the most important it's about how we look at it.

Sissie: Yes it's priority, but it's important to note my question isn't about priority.

You meet a guy/girl you find yourself attracted to the person (beauty)
You start talking and like the way the person thinks, or you think oh he's not too bad, not great but not a no no (brain),
You got talking and find out more about his family and him (family).
You observe how the person view the world and his personality, and you think great or not bad or its manageable (compatibility)
And you think to your self this is nice, and you start looking at the person deeper, observing, look at their character, how they interact, ask him questions that has to do with Deen, and all that tbaba and lala-laila listed (religion) you are ok with it, great masha Allah, it's time to fix date. If your not ok with it you call it quit, and start looking for someone else.

In this scenario, it doesn't mean religion isn't the most important, it's is the most important it's about how we look at it.

Very well said finding out about how someone practices their deen is the most important but not necessarily the first thing which will happen, Just because it might come later down a list does not mean it is not a priority.

This said however, you can loose a lot of time this way too, everything else can be all great and might take some time to uncover and you get to the issue of deen and it all falls apart. a good way around this is to ask people who you trust and respect to recommend prospective suitors to you....This way you already have a reference so to speak and they know that your intentions are serious from the outset.

In as much as we are concerned about the persons religion, you should be concerned for yours too.
I.e as a woman, I like to think am smart, if I find his brain wanting its problem for me, what if he wants me to do something and I disobey him often because I think am smarter and my way is better, what if I don't find him attractive and find it hard to do my wifey duties, thereby commiting sins, just like the woman who asked for divorce from her husband because she was scared of commiting kufr, I too am scared of it.

As a man it's easier to overlook so many things, if she gets fat, or loose herself, you can threaten her with marrying another wife, and you can even go ahead and do so, me I cant.
I have to be submissive and I need to know he is someone I would submit to, the submitting becomes easier if I feel he's qualified to have.

And of course he's religion extremely important, I don't want him bringing home money he made in riba ways.

P.s I know men who started looking for second wives, because their wife couldn't keep them intellectually stimulated, and wasn't interested in things they liked. Even though their wife's were good/ok muslims.

Lala_laila:

Very well said finding out about how someone practices their deen is the most important but not necessarily the first thing which will happen, Just because it might come later down a list does not mean it is not a priority.

This said however, you can loose a lot of time this way too, everything else can be all great and might take some time to uncover and you get to the issue of deen and it all falls apart. a good way around this is to ask people who you trust and respect to recommend prospective suitors to you....This way you already have a reference so to speak and they know that your intentions are serious from the outset.

True

i know this is a little off topic but it covers it too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuWX0aZFf0

deols:

But people dont have to be Muslims before having good characters and you cannot call someone who prays, fasts, does hajj and even participate in the jihad of fighting as not a Muslim because they lack some manners.


I believe that put in the context of this discourse, character was meant to stand differently. If not, Islam would simply be defined as a way of life and anyone who lives the Islamic or prophetic life would be the only ones deemed to be called Muslims.

Islam should impact behaviour too.. I am not talking about tagging a person non-muslim.

The prophet said that he has come to perfect good manners (Ahmad and Al-Hakim)

If as a muslim, you engage in haram business, I can not tag you a non muslim but I can have exceptions to it.

The same applies to a muslim with a bad attitude.

There is no way I can separate islam from manners because it is an expression of your islam.

Ofcourse, no one is perfect.

Lala_laila: i know this is a little off topic but it covers it too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuWX0aZFf0

GBAM!

Nice picture too. Absolutely complete dressing

Sissie: In as much as we are concerned about the persons religion, you should be concerned for yours too.
I.e as a woman, I like to think am smart, if I find his brain wanting its problem for me, what if he wants me to do something and I disobey him often because I think am smarter and my way is better, what if I don't find him attractive and find it hard to do my wifey duties, thereby commiting sins, just like the woman who asked for divorce from her husband because she was scared of commiting kufr, I too am scared of it.

As a man it's easier to overlook so many things, if she gets fat, or loose herself, you can threaten her with marrying another wife, and you can even go ahead and do so, me I cant.
I have to be submissive and I need to know he is someone I would submit to, the submitting becomes easier if I feel he's qualified to have.

And of course he's religion extremely important, I don't want him bringing home money he made in riba ways.

P.s I know men who started looking for second wives, because their wife couldn't keep them intellectually stimulated, and wasn't interested in things they liked. Even though their wife's were good/ok muslims.

I think a lot of adjustments/sacrifices have to be made by both in marriage. I can manage watching a silly show with my wife if that is what she enjoys, and if it gives us time to connect. And she would also think, I love the show too.

I think, it is vital to have an amazing relationship with your wife, it would save your deen. I hope to take annual vacations with my wife to random places just to spice things up. It is hard work on both sides.

And yes, sometimes I would think your idea is stupid but as much as possible, important decisions have to be made together. That said, I expect support if I go against what you think.

Sissie: In as much as we are concerned about the persons religion, you should be concerned for yours too.
I.e as a woman, I like to think am smart, if I find his brain wanting its problem for me, what if he wants me to do something and I disobey him often because I think am smarter and my way is better, what if I don't find him attractive and find it hard to do my wifey duties, thereby commiting sins, just like the woman who asked for divorce from her husband because she was scared of commiting kufr, I too am scared of it.

As a man it's easier to overlook so many things, if she gets fat, or loose herself, you can threaten her with marrying another wife, and you can even go ahead and do so, me I cant.
I have to be submissive and I need to know he is someone I would submit to, the submitting becomes easier if I feel he's qualified to have.

And of course he's religion extremely important, I don't want him bringing home money he made in riba ways.

P.s I know men who started looking for second wives, because their wife couldn't keep them intellectually stimulated, and wasn't interested in things they liked. Even though their wife's were good/ok muslims.

very true. the issue about plural marriage is reaching epidemic proportions. Men see the fact that they can marry up to four times as an inalienable right when this is simply not true!! there are strict conditions attached to it and their consequences are very serious. It is very difficult for any man to fulfill the rights of one wife let alone more but they don't seem to consider this at all. this also links back to my earlier point about knowing the figh of marriage. Not many sisters know that they can stipulate in their marriage contract that their husband cannot marry another wife without her consent, or in fact say that such an action would invalidate their marriage.

As for disobeying your husband the likelihood of this can be avoided by marrying a man who you respect and is your intellectual, cultural and social equal as was recommended by the prophet peace be upon him.

tbaba1234:

I think a lot of adjustments/sacrifices have to be made by both in marriage. I can manage watching a silly show with my wife if that is what she enjoys, and if it gives us time to connect. And she would also think, I love the show too.

I think, it is vital to have an amazing relationship with your wife, it would save your deen. I hope to take annual vacations with my wife to random places just to spice things up. It is hard work on both sides.

And yes, sometimes I would think your idea is stupid but as much as possible, important decisions have to be made together. That said, I expect support if I go against what you think.

True, it's important to have an amazing relationship, hmm I always said that too, that I hope to take annual vacations, so we can have just "us time" too.
I don't like the word hard work!!! LOL I remember once saying this to you, about not wanting it to sound like so much work LOL.
Well many men don't know that they should make important decisions together with their wife.
May Allah (SWT) make it easy for us.

Lala_laila:

very true. the issue about plural marriage is reaching epidemic proportions. Men see the fact that they can marry up to four times as an inalienable right when this is simply not true!! there are strict conditions attached to it and their consequences are very serious. It is very difficult for any man to fulfill the rights of one wife let alone more but they don't seem to consider this at all. this also links back to my earlier point about knowing the figh of marriage. Not many sisters know that they can stipulate in their marriage contract that their husband cannot marry another wife without her consent, or in fact say that such an action would invalidate their marriage.

As for disobeying your husband the likelihood of this can be avoided by marrying a man who you respect and is your intellectual, cultural and social equal as was recommended by the prophet peace be upon him .

So true. At bolded that is my point, reducing that likelihood is important, compromising has a limit.