i pray we all get our heart desires
and continue to watch and PRAY[quote][/quote]

AMEN!!!

@viee,

We have never been on a war path; so not talking to me - you no get choose for the matter!

viee:

Pilgrim, i have actually said i wont say a thing to you
but i have to say you really make me LAUGH
i give you that!

So long as your day is made - what would we do without laughter?

But take style look carefully at my matter, and you will find that they are serious enough to stir your heart. If not, no worries - God is able to light your candle.

viee:

"the Christ consciousness" ?
try using your dictonary sometimes, it could help.
your arguments here baffles me in all honesty

Never heard of the term? Okay, sample these:

[list]
"A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who coined the phrase 'Krishna Consciousness,' held Jesus' teachings as non-different from the Hindu, Vedic scriptures, and others such as Paramahansa Yogananda often wrote about a "Christ Consciousness" interchangeably with "Krishna Consciousness"

Source: Wikipedia[/list]

[list]
"The Christ-Consciousness, and not the personality of Christ, is what is to be taken into account here in our understanding of this statement. There is a difference between Christ and Christ-Consciousness. . .

From the above point of view, what would it mean to empty oneself and what would it also mean to be filled by It? This is the great philosophy of the Spirit. We are heading towards real Yoga when we speak about these things. . .

With this background of spiritual refreshment of our thoughts we have to contemplate daily the mystery of creation, the majesty of God, the greatness of spiritual life, the stupendousness of Yoga and the glorious consummation that is ahead of us which is supreme Liberation, Christ-Consciousness or God-realisation."

Source: SRI SWAMI KRISHNANANDA[/list]

Dearly beloved, don't play with your soul You ask me to use the dictionary. . . don't make me laugh!  An English distionary may give you the meaning of individual words; but they will not suffice when you need to understand religious concepts!

Don't confuse Biblical Christianity for oriental mysticism - even if the mysticism mentions "Christ". As the above demonstrate, they may speak of "Christ", but they're leading you away from HIM and straying towards "real YOGA"!

[center]Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
1 John 5:21.[/center]

Remember Meditate this night with;

1 cor 13:6

sure Oby
thanx!

Oby1:

my dear i tire o.
I no come your church, na by force?

Hehe. . . how far?

Una dey make me laff with these whimpers. Have I asked you to "come to my church"? Where have I advertised that any Catholic should come to "my church"?  Make I just dey laff at una confusion. You really don't get anything to demonstrate clear thinking these days, and I'm sad for you. If that is a way of choking more on the mystification of RCC that you don't like to read here, sorry - there's nothing una fit do about it!

No worry, when God touch you, you go think straight.

Enjoy for now.

u need to see me 4 office, anybody wey enter now go ask sey wetin dey worry this girl (i laugh tears dey tell me sey e don do)

pilgrim.1:


"The Christ-Consciousness, and not the personality of Christ, is what is to be taken into account here in our understanding of this statement. There is a difference between Christ and Christ-Consciousness. . .

i like this part

Oby1:

u need to see me 4 office, anybody wey enter now go ask sey wetin dey worry this girl (i laugh tears dey tell me sey e don do)

Good one! As long as it's not laughing in sorrow. Just take style think straight and speak the truth at all times.

@viee,

viee:

i like this part

Good. Then maybe you should reflect on what is hidden behind that part that you liked:

We are heading towards real Yoga when we speak about these things. . .

Don't cheat yourself - or you go land further away from God's Truth.

actually Pilgrim, What i like here is in the part that it is based on their own understanding not mine
my own understanding is that it helps me to think of Christ first before i do anything in life


no matter the situation or condition in life, i put CHRIST first,
to me it means being Christ conscious, the fact that a group of people came together to say something based on their understandng dsnt mean it is right
it may be for you but surely not for me.

Sing along

Glory be to Jesus, Honour to Mary (twice)

anywayz,

back to beta topic. .  .  . .
how una dey sef?
the October devotion is gradually coming to an end
i pray we all get our heart desires
and continue to watch and PRAY

@viee

thank God i have not missed a single day of saying my rosary, though i have not  been attending devotion in church except once on a sunday.

@oby

my parishes are not in the whole of lagos oo.

i used to live in an area where i had church responsibilities, but now live in another area of lagos.

so when i can, i still go to my old parish. if not i go to the parish near me.

understand?

viee, "ignorance now"

Carlosein:

@viee

thank God i have not missed a single day of saying my rosary, though i have not been attending devotion in church except once on a sunday.

we are in the same shoes my broda

Carlosein:


viee, "ignorance now"

dont mind Viee!
but she will heed from now on

okay now. but guys i have to go.

see you soon.

Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary and St Joseph and all the Saints too.

Bye.

Carlosein:

okay now. but guys i have to go.

see you soon.

Bye.

Why dem go give u dat kain name sef? That nam be like the place wey dem Pope take kpai millions of christians because dem read bible; Dem say because dem say eucharist na symbol instead of the real bodi and blood of Jesus. Pope! You wicked oh!

@viee,

viee:

actually Pilgrim, What i like here is in the part that it is based on their own understanding not mine
my own understanding is that it helps me to think of Christ first before i do anything in life

I hear. Na small-small bad water dey take enter pure stream!

My dear, God keep and bless you. . . protect your heart and make you to excel above mixtures in your spiritual life.

Today's Saint 19/10/07

St. Isaac Jogues, John de Brébeuf and Companions

Isaac Jogues (1607-1646): Isaac Jogues and his companions were the first martyrs of the North American continent officially recognized by the Church. As a young Jesuit, Isaac Jogues, a man of learning and culture, taught literature in France. He gave up that career to work among the Huron Indians in the New World, and in 1636 he and his companions, under the leadership of John de Brébeuf, arrived in Quebec. The Hurons were constantly warred upon by the Iroquois, and in a few years Father Jogues was captured by the Iroquois and imprisoned for 13 months. His letters and journals tell how he and his companions were led from village to village, how they were beaten, tortured and forced to watch as their Huron converts were mangled and killed.

An unexpected chance for escape came to Isaac Jogues through the Dutch, and he returned to France, bearing the marks of his sufferings. Several fingers had been cut, chewed or burnt off. Pope Urban VIII gave him permission to offer Mass with his mutilated hands: "It would be shameful that a martyr of Christ be not allowed to drink the Blood of Christ." Welcomed home as a hero, Father Jogues might have sat back, thanked God for his safe return and died peacefully in his homeland. But his zeal led him back once more to the fulfillment of his dreams. In a few months he sailed for his missions among the Hurons.

In 1646 he and Jean de Lalande, who had offered his services to the missioners, set out for Iroquois country in the belief that a recently signed peace treaty would be observed. They were captured by a Mohawk war party, and on October 18 Father Jogues was tomahawked and beheaded. Jean de Lalande was killed the next day at Ossernenon, a village near Albany, New York.

The first of the Jesuit missionaries to be martyred was René Goupil who, with Lalande, had offered his services as an oblate. He was tortured along with Isaac Jogues in 1642, and was tomahawked for having made the Sign of the Cross on the brow of some children.

Jean de Brébeuf (1593-1649): Jean de Brébeuf was a French Jesuit who came to Canada at the age of 32 and labored there for 24 years. He went back to France when the English captured Quebec (1629) and expelled the Jesuits, but returned to his missions four years later. Although medicine men blamed the Jesuits for a smallpox epidemic among the Hurons, Jean remained with them.

He composed catechisms and a dictionary in Huron, and saw 7,000 converted before his death. He was captured by the Iroquois and died after four hours of extreme torture at Sainte Marie, near Georgian Bay, Canada.

Father Anthony Daniel, working among Hurons who were gradually becoming Christian, was killed by Iroquois on July 4, 1648. His body was thrown into his chapel, which was set on fire.

Gabriel Lalemant had taken a fourth vow—to sacrifice his life to the Indians. He was horribly tortured to death along with Father Brébeuf.

Father Charles Garnier was shot to death as he baptized children and catechumens during an Iroquois attack.

Father Noel Chabanel was killed before he could answer his recall to France. He had found it exceedingly hard to adapt to mission life. He could not learn the language, the food and life of the Indians revolted him, plus he suffered spiritual dryness during his whole stay in Canada. Yet he made a vow to remain until death in his mission.

These eight Jesuit martyrs of North America were canonized in 1930.

Quote

"My confidence is placed in God who does not need our help for accomplishing his designs. Our single endeavor should be to give ourselves to the work and to be faithful to him, and not to spoil his work by our shortcomings" (from a letter of Isaac Jogues to a Jesuit friend in France, September 12, 1646, a month before he died).

Today's reading is based on Abraham the father of faith.


Meditation of the Day
"Abraham put his faith in God, and this faith was considered as justifying him" (Excerpts from ABIDE IN MY WORD)

Day by Day with Mary, the Mother of God (From ABIDE IN MY WORD)
"It is so very easy to be proud and harsh and selfish-so easy; but we have been created for greater things. How much we can learn from our Lady! She was so humble because she was all for God. BLESSED TERESA OF CALCUTTA.

The Jesuits:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=75506.msg1573715#msg1573715


The Jesuits. hmm.

Actually I dont know what to say but I'll say this,if you believe someone is not practising christianity the way they ought to. Aint you meant to teach and not make them feel bad about what they know?
Why do people go on being critics? Sometimes people behave in a way they dont welcome other people to be christians with their reception.

Well God knows better.
Thank you Father for what I know,some may thing is contrary but I dont care. For your words that I know works.

i had my first holy communion in a parish church run by the Jesuits,

and i am thankful to God i had that privilege.

St. Inigo (Ignatius) of Loyola, Pray for Us. Amen.

by the way, there are 38 members of the Society of Jesus who are Blessed and another 38 who are Saints

to the greater glory of God.

Infourmer:

Actually I don't know what to say but I'll say this,if you believe someone is not practising christianity the way they ought to. Aint you meant to teach and not make them feel bad about what they know?
Why do people go on being critics? Sometimes people behave in a way they don't welcome other people to be christians with their reception.

Well God knows better.
Thank you Father for what I know,some may thing is contrary but I don't care. For your words that I know works.

God bless you.

Infourmer:
Actually I don't know what to say but I'll say this,if you believe someone is not practising christianity the way they ought to. Aint you meant to teach and not make them feel bad about what they know?

Informal,

We have appealed, cajoled, coaxed, begged, and presented the fallacies of the Vatican doctrines to these ones. They also have tried to refute our claims but unfortunalely, their faith is left hanging in the balance as they have seen very clearly that they are not in for the truth. What do you do with someone who preaches apostacy and herecies but is quick to say that you non-catholics are heretics? You just wave it off with a wave of hand i guess. No bros. You must b ready to give a very major defence on the faith with you profess according to the scriptures.

Ask them what they think non-catholics are. They have labelled us with all sorts of names. While these ones on this forum may not have a clear-cut understanding of what obtains at theirr headquarters, w take it as part of our responsibilities to make known to them what is already revealed - the dark sid of the Vatican and their grand plan to breed the anti-christ.

The spirit of the Inqisition is still very present amongst us. Infourmer, How i wish you know the grand designs of the RCC from Rome. You will appreciate us better. To these ones, you hav to be persistent with the truth and give no room to their duplicity. If you know the depth of the deception within the Vatican you will not hesitate to open up.

Infourmer:
Why do people go on being critics? Sometimes people behave in a way they don't welcome other people to be christians with their reception.

Unfortunately, many have come to the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ through what they have read on this forum. Pilgrim.1's mail box is replete with conversion stories of catholics. Apart from those ones, some of them have openly on this board discarded the strange teachings of demonology being practised in the Church of Rome which is at var with the teachings of Christ.

It is working my brother, if someone tries to negate the truth on the grounds that the bible is hard to understand, then you have to make him see his error with all diligence. It would look like criticism, yea it is indeed but the truth must be told. W however do leave the rest to the Holy Spirit to complete.

So, forget that principle of 'all-inclusion' and lets state the matters as they are. We need to know those who are for God truly and those who are not.

St Ignatius of Loyola, pray for us. Amen.

hey y'all, am back after my hiatus for a while and trying to clear my head from all these good cop, back cop syndrome about the catholic church and being a free thinker. I have to admit, it was pretty tough being away from all these debates and keeping an unholy silence to decipher what is really true and false and i think i have come to a final conclusion.

Having heard all the arguments against and for the catholic church, nothing beats evidence and practicality of certain situations at hand. After all am a lawyer and conclusive proof is all i need to win a case.

Firstly, i took it upon myself to attend the catholic church far away from my regular church to see things in a neutral perspective.

What i noticed and i would love to ask the antagonist of the catholic church is that, " Is everything about the catholic church totally negative and there's no positives that could be bettered in future?" Because everything seems to hang on the negatives of the catholic church 100% which imao is not totally fair.

like every other church, they do have a choir which praises God non stop and they recite passages from the bible. I know at this junction, the endless debate over which bible is right or false will creep in here, but the bottom line is that i noticed, they actually quote from the old testaments for the first gospel passage, the new testament during the second gospel reading and a specific chapter from any of the 4 apostles for the main gospel reading and during the sermon or homily as it's being refered in the catholic church, the priests do actually preach the word of God and although veiled references to Mary and the other saints do crop up, it all about the teachings of God which i dont think is wrong in any manner.

I took particular interest in last week's sermon that talked about the gifts of the holy spirit ( wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and the fear of the lord)

It also dwelt on the fruits of the holy spirit ( joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, mildness, faith, modesty, continency and chastity)

Now these are positives things about the catholic church that has been constantly overlooked.

Nobody is saying the popes of the past having done terrible things to bring the catholic churche's name to disrepute over the years and the current pope has made some gaffs of recent. But in as much as you point out these gaffs and and odd statements of the catholic church, these popes have also said and done things to reconcile other faiths and bring unity one way or the other and i think it's a worthwhile thing but at the same time, we should act as checks and balances for their excesses when they go above board.

Like in any other religion, there would be fanatics and extremists who would take the matters of faith to the heart and commit hideous sins and crimes all in the name of defending the church, but spare a moment for the true believers of god who are in the catholic faith to serve God and whether the issue of mary, the dead saints, the postulations of the vatican or erring priests and uncoordinated aspects of the canons, all i want to do and i believe so many catholics want the same is to serve God and if they think catholicism is the best medium for them, i think they should let them be.

I know it hurts alot of people about the extremities of the vatican, past and present and the doctrines sound totally imbecilic to loads of people, but i chose to ignore the negatives and chose the positives.

What finally convinced me that the catholic church is not that bad as postulated was a certain event that happened 2 weeks ago. There was this catholic society called the saint vincent de paul society that caters for the poor and neglected in the society. They went round the whole of lagos and collected almost 700 destitutes, retards and kids born with some form of affliction and feted them, clothed them and aided them with gifts and welfare packages from their meagre resources. I asked one of the members why they did such a thing, and he said, it's written in the bible to help the poor and ask for nothing in return, because it could be anybody who could be in that situation. Now i studied this man and found out that he was totally oblivious to the happenings of the vatican or the need to boast about his theological and intellectual superiority. He was just serving God and it had nothing to do with whether mary is the mother of God or who intercedes for who. He was just being a good christian and i know whether he was in another pentecosatal church or not, his quest to serve God is just his motto and nothing more. And it's from this little example, i chose to go back to the catholic faith, not to argue or defend the vatican, but to see it as a place of worship and assimilate the positives that is being thought about Christ and ignore things that i think would affect my beliefs and faith.

Every church has that person or group of people who try to explain the obvious beyond the comprehension of what the bible actually teaches and we can chose to accept it hook line and sinker or pray to the one and only God. We all need a medium to communicate and most catholics were born into the catholic church and although bad habits are hard to let go, but i'll go one step better and follow the word of God when it's being explained and preached to me, which is what wqe all need to attain that salvation.

Great to be back and please go on with the debates, it's quite an enchanting, entertaining, intellectual read and spectacle

God bless!

i have read several post in dis thread but yours i must say has been very very, u choose d words.
u made sense dats all i can say

Let me be the first to say Welcome Lawyer.

"Heavenly Father, help us to run the race and fight the good fight of faith. We believe that you are present to us and will continue to protect and bless us as your church, a people set apart for your glory and honour."

Today's Saint 22.10.07

St. Peter of Alcantara (1499-1562)

Peter was a contemporary of well-known 16th-century Spanish saints, including Ignatius of Loyola and John of the Cross. He served as confessor to St. Teresa of Avila. Church reform was a major issue in Peter’s day, and he directed most of his energies toward that end. His death came one year before the Council of Trent ended.

Born into a noble family (his father was the governor of Alcantara in Spain), Peter studied law at Salamanca University and, at 16, joined the so-called Observant Franciscans (also known as the discalced, or barefoot, friars). While he practiced many penances, he also demonstrated abilities which were soon recognized. He was named the superior of a new house even before his ordination as a priest; at the age of 39, he was elected provincial; he was a very successful preacher. Still, he was not above washing dishes and cutting wood for the friars. He did not seek attention; indeed, he preferred solitude.

Peter’s penitential side was evident when it came to food and clothing. It is said that he slept only 90 minutes each night. While others talked about Church reform, Peter’s reform began with himself. His patience was so great that a proverb arose: "To bear such an insult one must have the patience of Peter of Alcantara."

In 1554, Peter, having received permission, formed a group of Franciscans who followed the Rule of St. Francis with even greater rigor. These friars were known as Alcantarines. Some of the Spanish friars who came to North and South America in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries were members of this group. At the end of the 19th century, the Alcantarines were joined with other Observant friars to form the Order of Friars Minor.

As spiritual director to St. Teresa, Peter encouraged her in promoting the Carmelite reform. His preaching brought many people to religious life, especially to the Secular Franciscan Order, the friars and the Poor Clares.

He was canonized in 1669.

Quote

"I do not praise poverty for poverty's sake; I praise only that poverty which we patiently endure for the love of our crucified Redeemer and I consider this far more desirable than the poverty we undertake for the sake of poverty itself; for if I thought or believed otherwise, I would not seem to be firmly grounded in faith" (Letter of Peter to Teresa of Avila).

Meditation of the Day
"Scripture says that our faith like Abraham too will be 'considered' if we believe in him." (1st reading Romans 4:20-25)

Holy Spirit, transform our mind. Deepen our faith in God's truths so that in our pilgrimage we may be steadfast and walk with him to victory. Help us to be more like Abraham and not waver concerning the promise of God but to grow strong in faith." AMEN

Day by Day with Mary, the Mother of God
"The holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ". POPE PAUL VI

@Infourmer

All i ask from God for you is to continue showering you with his wisdom and knowledge. Since you seek peace, peace will never depart from you. In Jesus Name. AMEN

Glory be to Jesus and Honour to our blessed Mother Mary

lawyer:
hey y'all, am back after my hiatus for a while and trying to clear my head from all these good cop, back cop syndrome about the catholic church and being a free thinker. I have to admit, it was pretty tough being away from all these debates and keeping an unholy silence to decipher what is really true and false and i think i have come to a final conclusion.

Hurray!!! My dear lawyer, Welcome back . I must tell you that we ralliy missed you. To be honest, that intellectual vacuum you left when you absconded ( ) could not be filled by any of your guys. Let me counsel you : You need to do a very serious work with grooming more catholics to be able to defend the faith like you Anyways, welcome back. I was actually thinking you were going to do something nasty with your very painful outburst but thank God, He took control.

lawyer:
Having heard all the arguments against and for the catholic church, nothing beats evidence and practicality of certain situations at hand. After all am a lawyer and conclusive proof is all i need to win a case.

Thats why I enjoy you. I like lawyers, especially those as intelligent like you. I actually crave for foriegn movies ladened with law suits that would usually entail very serious and intelligent cooperation of the police, other law enforcement agants and most especially the lawyers who now put all those together. Yet to find such soul-searching feats among our lawyers in Nigeria sha!

lawyer:
Firstly, i took it upon myself to attend the catholic church far away from my regular church to see things in a neutral perspective.

I am so sure that they would not have done anything different from the one you always attended.

lawyer:
What i noticed and i would love to ask the antagonist of the catholic church is that, " Is everything about the catholic church totally negative and there's no positives that could be bettered in future?" Because everything seems to hang on the negatives of the catholic church 100% which imao is not totally fair.

Not really. Every act cannot be satanic but that presupposition exposes you to two grave dangers:

A.)[/b]Cornelius had good works in abundance and relied on them greatly albeit with a pure and genuine heart. In [b]Acts 10: 1+ There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway,

Can you see all his attributes? Yet, God had to tell send Peter to him to minister salvation.

B.) When as the bible says, in 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light, you will not know. One qustion you might ask yourself is this: In what way does satan do this?

He clones good works and steathily [/b]hinges salvation on those works thereby apparing to many as if it is God-sent but inherently, they are wolvs in sheep's clothings. Beware.

lawyer:
like every other church, they do have a choir which praises God non stop and they recite passages from the bible. I know at this junction, the endless debate over which bible is right or false will creep in here, but the bottom line is that i noticed, they actually quote from the old testaments for the first gospel passage, the new testament during the second gospel reading and a specific chapter from any of the 4 apostles for the main gospel reading and during the sermon or homily as it's being refered in the catholic church, the priests do actually preach the word of God and although [b]veiled references to Mary and the other saints do crop up, it all about the teachings of God which i don't think is wrong in any manner.

Its all good but for the boldened portion. We have severally debunked those sophistries and explicitly stated that the act of Mary-veneration is actually deeper than what you think it is. It is Mary-worshipping. And permit me to ask you, whose taching of God is it that tells us abut Mary? If anything, the questions you should ask yourself are these:

[list]
[li]Which disciple/apostel of Jesus ever taught about Mary?[/li]
[li]Which of them ever taught as a tradition the bowing down to images?[/li]
[li]Which of Christ's teachings ever highlighted references to dead saints to the extent of their praying or interceeding for us?[/li]
[li]Where in the Holy Scriptures is Mary ever pronounced sinless or that she had no need of of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross of Calvary[/li]
[li]When did the doctrine of Mariolatory including her assumption creep into the church according to the holy fathers of RCC?[/li]
[/list]

lawyer:
I took particular interest in last week's sermon that talked about the gifts of the holy spirit ( wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and the fear of the lord)
It also dwelt on the fruits of the holy spirit ( joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, mildness, faith, modesty, continency and chastity)
Now these are positives things about the catholic church that has been constantly overlooked.

Yea! They're cool virtues but mind you, the Gifts [/b]of the Holy Spirit are different from the [b]Fruits [/b]of the Holy Spirirt. The gifts include : Healing, Prophecy, Word of Knowledge, Words of Widom, Working of miracles, tongues, interpretation of tongues, etc. [b]1 Corinthians 12:7. They are very different from what you called gifts in your post. These are given for the edification of the body of Christ.

Fruits on th otherhand can easily be fiegned. Therefore, do not base your judgement of a professing christain on those.

lawyer:

Nobody is saying the popes of the past having done terrible things to bring the catholic church's name to disrepute over the years and the current pope has made some gaffs of recent. But in as much as you point out these gaffs and and odd statements of the catholic church, these popes have also said and done things to reconcile other faiths and bring unity one way or the other and i think it's a worthwhile thing but at the same time, we should act as checks and balances for their excesses when they go above board.

How have you acted as a check for them? They are obviously far from you guys down here. The unfortunate thing is that those who you think acted overzalously did not. They actd just in accordance with the laws of the church concernign what should be done to infidels. Hisotry of the 20th century is not too far-fetched. My dear Lawyer, its only a matter of time, not too far from now that you will see Inquisitions again. They have not changed the laws! It is still in effect. When the Vatican achieves its aim of a New World Order, then you will know that repentance/regrets is not in the canons of the soldiers of the popes. Study more about the Jesuits .

lawyer:
Like in any other religion, there would be fanatics and extremists who would take the matters of faith to the heart and commit hideous sins and crimes all in the name of defending the church, but spare a moment for the true believers of god who are in the catholic faith to serve God and whether the issue of mary, the dead saints, the postulations of the vatican or erring priests and uncoordinated aspects of the canons, all i want to do and i believe so many catholics want the same is to serve God and if they think catholicism is the best medium for them, i think they should let them be.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

That is the call! Abraham did not remain after getting the truth from God. He was instructed to leave Ur of the chaldeans! He was instructed to run away from idol worshipping and abandon his people. You cant wash a plat clean with a dirty spongue! New wines are not kept in old skins. For th RCC, if would have been better if they had no ulterior motives but they have! Their quest is for Power, control, both Religious, Political, and economical and at all cost. If that is the focus of your leaders in teh Vatican, what do you think is your stake in there?

lawyer:
What finally convinced me that the catholic church is not that bad as postulated was a certain event that happened 2 weeks ago. There was this catholic society called the saint vincent de paul society that caters for the poor and neglected in the society. They went round the whole of lagos and collected almost 700 destitutes, retards and kids born with some form of affliction and feted them, clothed them and aided them with gifts and welfare packages from their meagre resources. I asked one of the members why they did such a thing, and he said, it's written in the bible to help the poor and ask for nothing in return, because it could be anybody who could be in that situation. Now i studied this man and found out that he was totally oblivious to the happenings of the vatican or the need to boast about his theological and intellectual superiority. He was just serving God and it had nothing to do with whether mary is the mother of God or who intercedes for who. He was just being a good christian and i know whether he was in another pentecosatal church or not, his quest to serve God is just his motto and nothing more.

There we go: GOOD WORKS. The story of Cornelius, onc again, is a case in point. Moreover, Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Not of works. Devils do the same. While not condemning the need for charity, it is not the main ingredient for salvation.

lawyer:
And it's from this little example, i chose to go back to the catholic faith, not to argue or defend the vatican, but to see it as a place of worship and assimilate the positives that is being thought about Christ and ignore things that i think would affect my beliefs and faith.

Your leaders are your drivers. If in a car, you discover that your driver has very terrible driving habits you are very much uncomfortable with, what do you do, you warn him (if you can) or better still, you tell him to stop for you so that you ca alight. Can you guard or act as a check or balance to the Vatican? The answer is no! What is the only solution, alight

lawyer:
Every church has that person or group of people who try to explain the obvious beyond the comprehension of what the bible actually teaches and we can chose to accept it hook line and sinker or pray to the one and only God. We all need a medium to communicate and most catholics were born into the catholic church and although bad habits are hard to let go, but i'll go one step better and follow the word of God when it's being explained and preached to me, which is what wqe all need to attain that salvation.

Great to be back and please go on with the debates, it's quite an enchanting, entertaining, intellectual read and spectacle

Cool .

Finally, let me tell you that you are a candidate for Apostacy and a possible anathemising according to the laws of the RCC if you do not uphold ALL of the tenets of the church. To the Vatican, its either all or nothing!

Hope to hear from you soon.


Oby1, we all seek peace o. I am not asking that your neck be given to the hangman's noose

Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

I hope we all had a very good weekend?

I will love you all to remember me in your prayers for a special intention for this week. . . . . .

thank you and God bless you all through Christ our Lord
and may Our Lady, the Angels and Saints of God continue to pray to for us

Amen

Oby1:

Let me be the first to say Welcome Lawyer.

@Oby1,

How are you today?

It is really sad to observe how hypocritical you guys can get atimes. Did you not "suspect" that lawyer and b.rent were working 'hand in hand' with pilgrim.1? Now you're being 'the first' to give him the same laced 'welcome' that is only surficial and which we have all become too familiar is the trademark of Catholics. Wey gozizi with his poison against lawyer?

As I usually say, it's only a matter of time - and you guys are going to continue confirming the very same things we have been saying all along.

We all make mistakes - I have done so in the past. But I hope you can see where your suspicion was taking you? I had hoped b.rent would come back and let you know he was not "fake" - but he declined several times when I pled with him thereto.

Anyway, it's all good. Enjoy your week.