violent:


In economies with advanced financial services system, the Bank's risk from lending activities was thought to be adequately distributed in the forms of collateralized debt obligations and Insurance policies, so every one was believed to be happy.

In Nigeria, this is far from being the case, the wealthy got richer from loans from the banks and they just simply refused to pay back, many of them bought properties abroad with depositors funds, acquired massive real estates and invested the remainder in long term holdings. But the question is who bears the risk of default? Depositors of course.

This is where the Regulatory frame work comes in, you can't keep borrowing money from the Expanded discount windows to individuals based on their name and net worth alone, or more ridiculously because the borrower is a friend of the family,  you need a form of collateral just incase of an event of default which we witnessed.
Moreover i doubt any sane regulatory frame work will not consider liquidity, profitability and cash ratios before taking such a decision, the banks are over leveraged, and its totally due to the shameful malpractices of the CEOs. now guess who is bearing the brunt? the shareholders and the employees of course, logic will dictate that if it hadn't been curbed on time, Depositors will surely have their share of the cake, and trust me, that will be the beginning of a fcked up economy.

Yes Soludo did the work of consolidation, and we were so thankful for that to an extent where all eyes were closed against the rot that rooted in the post consolidated banks while Soludo secretly planned his political ambition.

Sanusi is not to blame, the dude is just doing his work protecting the Nigerian economy and depositors interest, blame Soludo for putting his own personal interest before everything else.

I have chosen to reply you cause you are making sense from an informed point of view.

First on the issues of CDO and CDS which were supposed to act as so called inusrance policies, that did not manage the risk effectively it only shifted it from one party to the other, so in no way did that adequately distribute the risk as the regulators have now come to say the oversight on this instruments were not adequate hence the problem.

To the issue at hand, you stated the problem in Nigeria correctly to giving loans to the wealthy who refused to pay back, please have a look at the right offs been given by the R8 banks and tell me how the actions of Sanusi has changed this. Exactly i agree with your statement in bold above, but how does the regulator solve this by picking on banks without any framework in place to define anything, is it by picking on few banks. The margin loans went bad not because there was no collateral but a mistake on how volatile the collaterals were? Similar to the CDI notes the price of the houses dropped so all investors had were papers.

I am totally for the reform but it should be done properly, punish who needs to be punished but let it be clear. You said you doubted if any sane regulator would not have ratios he used, then the information should be published and there for all to see. What were the measures used? We need to know.

For me more needs to be done, this is just scratching the top, but it cant be achieved overnight, the measures needs to be clear and the objectives defined.

Soludo did a job of consolidating but it was done with good hindsight and clear for all to see, the criteria was set then all were told to achieve it, even when he decided to place the nations reserves with Nigerian banks, he defined the criteria.

Sanusi should properly articulate his policy for it to be clear.

texazzpete:

HAve you considered that it may well be because you people have put Sanusi on the defensive for merely doing his job that he has to go around defending his actions and his position with vigor? Someone carried out actions to bring sanity in the banking sector and he was promptly submerged with accusations of tribalism, Northern agenda, Sharia culture, favouritism, bias and corruption. And let's not forget the infamous Vanguard article (a favourite tool in the hands of fools). When presented with such full spectrum, unfounded accusations what is the man supposed to do but defend himself increasingly?

Has any of you ever asked Soludo what he did to manage the situation? I mean, you all bandy that phrase about, but what did he really do?

What did Soludo do to manage his own situation. Soludo came up with a strategic paper few months ahead on the aim of his consolidation and provided modalities and incentives for mergers. He did not wake up one day and said all banks must meet N25 billion, it was a prperly thought out scheme.

I have not painted Sanusi a tribalist, but he has failed to provide the adequate intellectual mechanism needed for such a delicate execise. Your comparison to Enron earlier is inappropriate, why did the Bank of england or Federal reserve not kill the banks that they gave out loans to individuals that cant pay their mortgages.

The problem of the margin loans is in a way similar to the sub prime wrong calculation of the risk. Lets limit this debate to issues and not sensatious stories or conspiracy theories.

Sanusi should provide credible ratios and test and a strategic intent to guide all banks and give a time frame to achieve it, and not be in a haste to crucify Nigerian banks.

Kobojunkie:

This is similar to what I have gotten from this so far.

Same impression I have gotten so far from reports.

@ kobo and wirinet, i totally agree with you guys. The statement says nothing. There is no straight rebuke of his actions but an attempt to kind of ?? i really dont get it, they should have just kept quiet.

On this day today they are trying to spin the issue in favour of the father, i think its a bad step.

violent:

I see it as a smoke which will eventually come out, lets be realistic, how long do you think those banks intend to continue keeping bad loans on their balance sheet, 80 billion naira bad loan is not something you can just hide under a smile for very long.
The effects either you choose to accept it or not are bound to reveal themselves one day, better now than later don't you think?

I really dont get what you mean by better now. The issue was the handling, Sanusi himself booked bad loans so how can all of a sudden he is handpicking.

What ratios were used, what tests were done. The federal reserve has the stress test it uses to determine if banks can pay back bail out money, what criteria did CBN use in determining the health of the banks.

Then assuming the banks had problems as he claimed, they have not used the bail out funds so the question is what level of illiquidity were they operating at the time. The CBN can not talk down its own banks in a global world that information /rumours of bad news can wreak institutions. It was a shame listening to Sanusi on CNN, he had no clue the harm he was doing to the Nigerian Macro economy he was just talking and thought he sounded intelligent so sad.

scottN:

It's really a pity but this has to happen to safe guard our personal money and d financial sector as a whole even though 2 of my friends so far have been caught on the wrong side of this exercise. I hope they get new jobs soon in the coming new year.

This does not have to heppen to safe guard personal deposits and the financial sector.

Perhaps if we had seen  a properly thought out risk management mechanism a wholistic approach and not the half hearted witch hunting that took place. We would have had a case when there was a clear transparent approach and banks that fall short will be obvious to all.

Taborah:

I totally agree with you that Soludo is a better manager than Sanusi. The fact of the matter is that Sanusi not only acted in haste, but executed his agenda with malice and vengeance. The banking crisis arose because of the sub-prime mortgage in the West, what you can call loan advancement in Nigeria. While the US and other western govt are finding solution to their problem without over dramatising the issue, secretary of treasury has not recommended any bank MD or EDs for the guillotine.In any case Sanusi has been part of the problem. Under him, loans running into billions of naira went bad and provisions made as seen in the recent financial statement of FBN. He is garrulous and does not have the temperament of a person fit to occupy such sensitive portfolio . His comments are not only killing the financial services industry, the macro economic environment has been seriously injured. Foreign direct investment has virtually seized and the available ones are taking flight from the economy. No nation can ever develop when you muzzle your banks and create situation of instability by reckless utterances as those by Sanusi. The pronouncement of a Geithener will always have a far reaching effect on banks, money market, stock market,interest rates and other macroeconomic variables in the US.

And it is time the Nigerian Govt realised that the Headship of CBN is meant for seasoned economists and perhaps chartered accountants who understand the dynamics and complex nature of finance. It is not a position for carrier bankers who know next to nothing about macroeconomic management other than managing the intricacies of the debit and credit of everyday banking situation.

Your contribution has been the most meaningful. The issue remains the handling by Sanusi and not if there was a problem afterall as rightly noted by you, he booked major bad loans as first bank MD.

Sanusi handled the matter so poorly that one can hardly see the strategic intent. The problem he has created is now one of mainly confidence  all those talking of bloating salaries really dont understand how financial services work and have left the substance and dwelling on trivalities and sensationalism.

The issue now is that most of the credit lines from international banks have been recalled so there is a credit crunch particularly in the area of export which was one of the main revenue generators for Nigerian banks.

na_so:

I know Lukman is an old man who has seen it all and would probably not care if he is replaced. However I think a lot of us are underrating Jonathan. Just watch what he will do with power for one year when he assumes full control.

Who cares if he has seen it all, if that is the case thats the more reason why he should be sacked. He is such an irresponsible man. I really dont know how these men get to such positions and to think that he is supposed to be one of the most xperienced petroleum professionals we have its really sad, the guy has no values, he is so irrespnsible.

Weak or not, i dont think that is exactly the issue, it just tells how fickle we are as a people ignoring the substance and go afta irrlevant issues.

The issue is a petroleum minister that does not know his responsibility, he is irresponsible enof to leave the country when the establishments he oversees cant provide the very minimum expected of them.

He should be forced to resign or sacked, whether the VP has power or not is irrelevant, its the  Nigerian people dat can give him power by frowning at such silly selfish irresponsible acts.

I dont care  if its Goodluck, mumu or even i.d.i.o.t,there is a constitution that should be followed and its only the people dat can demand it.

For those that think the VP is a yes man, it tells of how little u undastand political power, power corrupts and absolute  power corrupts , , let him be given power and den u will c d yes man in him

tae_x:

@ away4real, concerning the whole ceo topic, if u read back to my earlier posts, i sed one of the reasons we are not succesful is because we lack the VISION, when i sed that, i was reffering to those who cannot see beyond the glass ceiling (by the way, i do know what that means). So on that particular topic, we are saying the exact same thing. However, Those people, both black and white, that are ceo's, had to do something extraordinary to get there, how many of us are really willing to risk our lifes worth to invest in things that may or may not pan out.

And no, high school was not that long ago, and there is still racism out there, and like an earlier poster said, there is still more work to do in order to overcome it completely, but that is not even the point of this topic.

Whether or not u agree with me, Nigerians are racist, decidedly so. I know that most of it is simply misplaced anger at the current state of affairs for blacks in the world, but we shld at least be enlightened enough to direct the anger to the right place in order to find solutions.

I realise we are not going to agree on this topic, so i am leaving this topic on an amicable note. Thanx 4 a lively discussion.

Thats cool anytime.

As i said earlier we dont have to agree there is no evidence to suggest Nigerians are racist so thats it.

Again Blacks do not lack vision nor are they lazy, the rules are bit skewed, they just have to work 4 times as hard just because they are black.

Since high school was not that long ago i think I kind of undastand where u are coming from.

Thanks also for your time.

@ poster as much as we want to every one  can not have the same level of will to overcome as you do some will give up easily than others (black, brown, green, yellow or white), these are the things that make us all human beings and y some excel more than others. The issue is that the criteria should be the same for everyone. No one should be discriminated upon and made to work 4 times as hard and live with it becos he is black.
Again dat suggest y d average balck man may be labelled as unduly aggressive and violent he has to work extremely hard for everything. So then d average white man who are our friends have no reason to be racist, the system has done dat for him.

I can go on and on, i am in no way suggesting u agree with me or change your views but only stating the facts the evidence. There is available eidence out there. But as u have done u can choose to ignore d evidence and decide to walk on a higher code living d bigots 2 their little worlds ( in some way its your own bubble but a positive bubble) a bubble as u have created your own reality. But the issue is that we still have to look out for the other 3 girls with u dat could not speak up, some one have to fight for them we cant just sit back and call them lazy, cos they are not. We need to look out for them as well if not who will, if becos i can work 4 times as hard i keep quiet and call the one dat works twice as hard as lazy when he is working twice as hard.

Again i reject as false the notion that blacks are Lazy and only give excuses, it is not ture. Blacks are hard working people. It is this false image that is being projected and becoming reality in the minds of people.

Finally answering your question, y i am not yet a ceo, theoretically i am a ceo but lets not be distracted from the evidence on the skewness of ceo's of fortune 500 companies like there are no competent blacks. There was a documentary recently on JayZ he said something that i have been thinkin 4 a while, he said they refused to sign them on so they started their own record company, they refused to sign them on d fashion line so they started their own fashion label.

So these days i encourage my friends that are shouting glass ceiling (u might or might not undastand dat yet) get out and start your own firms and am doing that Now i am starting my professional service firm. In d last quarter of d year from October precisely I will be going full time establishing my own consultancy have registered my firm and all, am a bit religious so I move on the guidance of the holy spirit so i get the peace it is time.

tae_x:

@away4real, the only answer that i have for you is the same one u seem not to be getting. Nobody is disputing that the whites WERE the agressors, but it was back in the day, BACK IN THE DAY. They are not so anymore. U need to get that. We as black people have been dealt harsh cards in life, but we cannot keep using that as an excuse for underachievement. We need to work harder than the whites in order to get to the same place in life that they are, that is not fair, but it is what it is and we need to deal with it and get over it.
I am also very offended by you telling me that i live in a bubble, u dont know me from adam, so pls dont make that kind of an assumtion about me, in high school i was beaten up constantly simply because i was one of 4 black girls in a school of 600 students, coins were thrown at me in class everyday, one a girl even broke my arm. The other three werent picked on because they did not speak thier minds, i constantly did and it always landed me in hot water. Now that may not be hardcore enough for you but it was hard for me, they wanted me to stop coming to school because they hated me, but i kept going, everyday, my father even wanted to remove me, but i refused. So dont tell me i live in a bubble or imply that I am naive because i am anything but. If anybody has earned the right to be racist towards whites, it is me. But i learnt to rise above it n realise that not all of them are like that. And there is no big deal to living in the uk, that is not what i meant.
The whole point of this topic is to get to the root of why nigerians are racist, there is simply no call for it. Yh, so we were opressed and sold as slaves, its ancient history. What we forget is that as a race, it also made us stronger.

Oh n lemme ask you a question, ure saying the reason for our lack of success in the uk is not due to our own laziness. Well i assume u dont think ure a lazy person. Why arent u the ceo of a major company? anyone holding u back?

Sweet heart my heart goes out to you for what you went through. I am indeed sorry that you had to be made to go through such experiences as a child from kids. Its commending that you were able to cope with it i say a big congratulations.

On my reference to u living a bubble u need not take offence though i will show below dat it is indeed a bubble. You insulted me earlier referring to the way i think i didn't take an offence anyway my sincere apologies if it offended u. Again your insinuation that i am a lazy person (do u know me from Adam) cld be regarded as offensive, i am not Lazy so its totally irrelevant to me I take no offense.

First lets establish some facts, Nigerians are not racist there is no evidence to back that up so the premise of the whole debate is flawed, if you can provide some data apart of cos from "white girl wit black boy talk" then we can debate that so thread closed.

Back to our diverted debate, as you suggested the white man was initially the aggressor and that d whole experience has made us stronger. I agree on a lot with u particulalry d need for us to realise dat we need to work harder becos we are black but again dis is exactly the problem dats racism, y do u have to work 4 times harder dan someone else becos u are black.

And where i defer fundamentally with you is that i cant say categorically it was BACK IN THE DAY, things have changed but there is still more to do. Let me not be misunderstood i am not suggesting that every white man is racist (i work with some white and wonderful people), but there is an INSTITUTIONAL BIAS still in place that will take just more than mere legislation but a clear, firm and continous will over time by successive govts to change.

Your experience highlights d whole problem. It can help explain and is critical now to the diverted debate. You were harrased in school by white kids geez kids, u suggested they did not want u there. The question is WHY. These kids will grow up tomorrow and all of a sudden u think they will be happy to have u in the same place they work. Then u were 4 but only u stood up, 25% so in other words 75% just decided to do nothing.

My first question to you is are u suggesting now that everything is all right as u said it is BACK IN THE DAY. How much BACK IN THE DAY was your experience. Should we all go to sleep and just decide to work 4 times harder because we are black and just live with it?  Are black kids still been bullied in some schools? If d answer to any of dis question is yes i dont get the reason for this debate.

ikeyman00:

haa ^^^

typin from your backside

Pls if you dont mind you are makin the thread difficult to follow, posting too many responses that have no direct relevance. If you can help delete some of your post that will help or the moderator can help.

tae_x:

at away4real. Speaking of preconcieved ideas of superiority, it is our own past that is biting us in the arse. I live in the uk, and I see a lot of black people making it in thier chosen professions. The only difference is that these people are in the minority. The majority of black ppl living in the uk tend to limit themselves, they have no vision because they think like you do. They think that they can never get anywhere as the white man is there to put them down so they dont even bother trying. No be mouth, na work. If these people disregarded the current state of black achievement out there, got a good education and got a first degree, are u telling me that they wld then be discriminated against even though thier credentials are as good or even better than that of the next person? U dont realise that there is actually a system to prevent things like that. If i applied for a job, same as a white man, I have a 1st and so does he, If they take the white man over me, there has to be a damn good reason otherwise i can take them to an employment tribunal and get a whole lotta compensation for it, and dont tell me the system doesn't work because it does. WE are the ones who don't try. Yes there is still racism out there, but we dont believe we can beat it so we dont try, we simply take it out on other innocent whites simply because they have the same color of skin. THAT IS NONSENSE

@ poster with all due respect you have valid points. I have in no way suggested that black people should not try as you have stated and labelled me one of them thanks for the complement.

But you have not addressed fundamental issues. You stated that those that "make it" amongst the blacks are in the minority, have you asked why is that so. What are the factors that make some give up so soon. Oh do black people just choose not to try and have vision. I reject as false the notion that black people do not try, it is untrue, black people on the average do try , of cos you have the odd weed smoker and "blamist", these are just outlyers.

I gave two clear facts and all you have come up with is "utopia". How many black ceo's in the UK and secondly The minorities in the metropolitan police recently stated that they work 4 times as hard to get the same level of recognition like their white colleagues. So the issue is that abinitio the ethnic minority police officer is worse off cos he has to be 4 times more hard working and determined, so this is where the numbers drop, on the average not all blacks will be 4 times as determined so that is why you have them in the minority not becos they dont try.

Coming to living in the UK, i live in the UK as well (so wats d big deal). I work in an investment bank and volunteer for the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB). So does that mean i can say in certain there is no bias out there hell no rather i can say first hand there is. Working for the CAB I have represented people in tribunals both employment and immigration and i understand first hand the issues. The tribunals do work but how many cases can be proved, some are thrown out on technicalities or are statute barred.

The UK govt has made progress and enacted laws against discrimination so it helps, but i asked a simple question who is the aggressor in this case. If it did not exist or should be ignored as you propose why were the laws enacted or why the need for a tribunal. And you think the presence of tribunals has all of a sudden changed the UK. You really must be living in a bubble.

My arguement is that you can not state Nigerians as racist to the white man as suggested by your post becos on the contrary Nigerians are more accomodating. This debate is not if racism exist or not, its on Nigerians being racist. Okay

tae_x:

Hi all, I am Oluwateniola, a born and bred nigerian from Ijebu and Edo backgrounds, so before u insult me (which some of you will as my topic is quite controversial and many will disagree) pls consider that.

I believe that a lot of nigerians are very racists. I have been noticing and observing for a long tym and have found that we do not likw white people in our business, we tend to insult them in one way or the other when they show interest in our culture and traditions. We also tend to have a preconceived idea that they think that they are superior, but i disagree strongly with that view

A friend of mine recently said to me that she is disgusted when she sees 'white girls stealing our men' as she put it.

Why are we so racist pls comment,

@ poster is this some form of reverse psychology or what.  I am sorry and do not intend to be insulting but your post suggest a very high level of ignorance and not in touch with reality.

What exactly are you on about, what do you mean there is a preconceived idea of superiority. In the UK where you live, how many black Ceo's can you point to, why did the ethnic minorities in the metropolitan police come out and state they have to work four times as hard as their average white colleagues to get the same level of recognition, if the whites do not have the preconceived idea why the one sided distribution.

There are facts and figures to prove prejudice from the white man to the black man (this is not to suggest that every white man is prejudice) but that there is an institutional bias in place.

Even in the US where there has been much progress in race relations, there are suggestions from some quaters that some whites have racial prejudice towards President Obama.

Coming here to use examples such as nigerian women dont find white women beautiful , white girls stealing black men is just so shallow and lame,,  market women talk.

Again my apologies not my intention to be insulting but to bring out the dept of your idea so u think again, pls Nigeria is a subset of the black population, statistics suggest that 1 in , is it 8 black people are Nigerians, so are u suggesting that black people are racist. The question should be what is the origin of racism and who is the aggresor not the bs*** absolute rubbish you have just posted.

aisha2:

Thanks my dear.
Our immediate needs now are food stuff,school books, school bags and clothes for some kids. We do not accept cash donations. However if you want to apy for a childs school fees, you can write a cheque in the name of the school the child attends. This is to ensure accountablity and trust.
Website is www.giplc.org

@ aisha cool, there is an account number in the website can i make a donation to that Oceanic bank account as stated on the link below.

http://www.giplc.org/donation.html

@ aisha u need to ignore the clown and the whole Govt of Yar Adua. The president has decided that he will take the nation backward and thats it for now hope OBJ is happy wherever he is.

Please post a link to your charity website and how one can make a donation.

Do your own bit and you just have to leave the rest if not you will get overwhelmed.

@ debosky & all so called "objective" and "rational" nigerians. Please read the comments of Prof. Itse Sagay with emphasis on the statments in bold. At least he is a learned man, its only if we want to deceive ourselves that you will choose not to see through the smoke screen of the government.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/07/31/oil-bill-fg-has-total-contempt-for-niger-delta-people-says-prof-sagay/

OIL BILL: FG has total contempt for Niger Delta people, says Prof Sagay
Special Reports Jul 31, 2009 By Dapo Akinrefon
THE proposed Oil Bill presently before the National Assembly has continued to generate harsh reactions especially from stakeholders from the Niger Delta. In this interview with Saturday Vanguard, Constitutional lawyer, Professor Itse Sagay frowns at the bill. He argues that the oil bill is anti- South-South adding that it will further lead to under-development in the region. He bares his mind on other sundry issues. Excerpts:

Reactions have continued to trail the controversial Oil Bill and in fact, South-South governors have threatened to pull out of the proposed amnesty for militants. Is there any legal basis to oppose the bill?

It’s not a legal basis, it’s political basis. The opposition from the Niger Delta is that the Oil Bill, has nothing positive for the Niger Delta. All it does, is to stream line the 16 existing petroleum producing areas into one, to make it more efficient and to make it more financially productive for the Federal government.

There is no package at all for the Niger Delta in it, so, really, it’s a slap in the face. It’s as if those who actually produce the oil are irrelevant and that it is to be produced exclusively for the benefit of the Federal government and those who control it.

Now that the South/South governors have threatened to pull out from the amnesty proposed by the Federal government for the militants, don’t you think such steps may threaten the Federal government’s efforts as regards amnesty that would eventually solve the crisis in the region?

Of course amnesty  will not work because there is no positive provision for the Niger Delta in the Petroleum Industry Bill.

There is nothing about royalty for the people of the Niger Delta. There is nothing about the cleaning up of the environment which is more damaging to the communities. There is nothing about any condition of  how Niger Delta states and communities can have a stake in the industry, for example, a provision that will allow them preference to some oil blocs which they can exploit  so that they can have significant practice in the industry.

There is no provision for increasing derivation from the present 13 percent to 25 per cent, when we know that the original derivation per cent was 60 per cent.

There is no provision to address the issue of offshore derivation, which, according to the independence and republican constitution, was applicable throughout the continental shelf . In other words, it is just a bill to ensure that the Federal government collects more money from the oil companies without taking care of anything of interest to the people who own the oil.

Having said that, what signal is this development sending to the region?

What it shows is that the Federal government has total contempt for the people of the Niger Delta. And that contempt  even confirmed the insolent attempt to downgrade the Petroleum Institute from a University status to a training institution for low and middle level workers and transfer the university, which award degrees to Kaduna Institute; in an area which has never produced a drop of oil in its history.

In other words, all the money from the Niger Delta, will now form the downgrading of its own institute and the upgrading of Kaduna, which does not produce oil. It’s ultimate insult.
But there are two versions of the bills presently before the National Assembly, don’t you see some form of hank-panky in the whole process?

I am yet to see the two bills. What I know about this bill is what I have read from what has been made available. In fact, I understand there are three versions of the bill, depending on who is trying to promote something. It only shows you that we are in a state of utter chaos.

Is there is anything in Dr Rilwan Lukman’s antecedents to show that he is anti- South/South?

It is obvious. All these are happening within the short period he has been in power.

He may not be doing it consciously. He might be doing it because he has a state of mind that the people of the Niger Delta are irrelevant and he’s only thinking of the power of the Federal government and that they (FG) can do whatever they like.

I think he has an imperial mind-set which has no consideration or sensitivity for those who are producing the wealth of this country.

If you are in a position to make suggestions to the Federal government on how to develop the Niger Delta, what would you be telling them?

To start, I will want the bill to be amended to include all the provisions I have stated . For example, there should be ten per cent of at least all proceeds of gross products of petroleum to the local communities.

There should also be a clear statement from the Federal government that the Petroleum University in Effurun is going to go on as established by the Obasanjo government. And the Federal government, without wasting much time, should begin to implement the Mitee-led technical committee recommendations, that is major developmental infra structural  interventions, building roads, bridges, electricity, developmental issues massively to show good faith. So that people of the Niger Delta will once again begin to trust the Federal government.

Do you think the South/South governors can sustain this campaign considering the fact that they are all in the same party?

It does not matter. They are still in the same party but they were not elected as governors by their party, they were elected by the people they represent.

And that is why they know that the people they represent have been humiliated and neglected; and that their own survival as governors, will depend on resisting this humiliation and oppression and rescuing the rights of the Niger Delta for them to have a share in their God given resources. The Niger Delta is the most wretched oil producing area in the whole world and that just has to stop. They use our money to build paradise in Abuja and in other parts of the country , leaving the Niger Delta in a state of wretchedness and filth. That’s not acceptable.

If the governors have to survive, they really have to take up the struggle to ensure that this sort of oppression is abruptly ended.

Just recently, militants stormed Lagos to attack the Atlas Cove Jetty and have threatened to carry out more attacks on oil installations around the country.

What I will like to say about it is that what they (militants) did in Lagos is an indication that they have the capacity to strike beyond the Niger Delta. I think that should register in the minds of everybody and therefore, it should be an incentive to try and arrive at a peaceful resolution of this matter as soon as possible.

Their grievances should be met, we should go beyond amnesty and go to the major and substantive issue that is causing this problem and resolve them. It means the Federal government has to move fast because those people have the capacity to go beyond the Niger Delta. For me, that is the message that they are sending, we must resolve this matter.

Already, they have declared a 60 day cease fire and suspension of activities. Those 60 days must be used productively particularly by the Federal government.

Some people have expressed fear that the Federal government may not be sincere in its plan to grant amnesty to the militants What do you make of this?

Well, honestly, I don’t know the mind of the Federal government. Given the things that have happened recently, this Petroleum Industry Bill and the transfer of the Petroleum Institute from Warri to Kaduna, there is definitely an indication, and one is inclined to believe, that there is a lack of sincerity.

But if that is the case, that lack of sincerity has to change. You can see the unity of the people of the Niger Delta, everybody is united, the governors are with us, the militants and the whole people of the Niger Delta are united in resisting continued oppression from Nigeria.

What the Federal government should do is to embark on massive infra structural intervention apart from the fact of restoring the real status of the Petroleum Institute unequivocally.

They should now massively intervene by providing infrastructure to the people of the Niger Delta, they should build a modern city like Abuja in the Niger Delta and also, the provision of the Petroleum Industry should be amended to include all the grievances which the Niger Delta governors have listed. All that should be done immediately.

A little digression the other day debosky was attempting to prove that the issue of a University in Warri amounts to sensationalism and tried to project the picture that the whole issue of the Niger Delta was unwarranted (my own summary) even attempting to prove that there were enough Oil & Gas and general investments in the area.

I stated that the govt had no confidence in the area and it is getting more obvious. This government does not possess the political will to resolve once and for all the issue of the Niger Delta, i am not calling that only members from the region be in the committe but better understands the issues but people whose villages are affected by spillages. As the lady suggested its not ONLy about the technical competence, there is no way some one from Jos or Kaduna can perceive the issue the same way some one from the area will.

It is obvious where the problem of the country is, the whole county including the core North has to realise that things are changing, we dont have a dictator (thanks to Fashola , SAN for showing clearly the intellectual depth of this govt) in power, if we are a federal state the federating units must have the power to dictate how they live.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=150074

Please read the story below,

N’Delta: Kogbara Resigns from FG’s Oil and Gas Committee
From Ahamefula Ogbu in Port Harcourt, 07.29.2009

Add To Favorites
Print This Article
Post Comment

The only member of the Rilwanu Lukman-led Oil and Gas Implementation Committee (OGIC) from the Niger Delta region, Donu Kogbara, has resigned from the committee over what she called professional, personal and social reasons that border on lack of protection of the interests of Niger Deltans.
Kogbara, who spoke from her base in London yesterday, regretted that her views were not respected the way she took the professional views of other members of the committee.
She added that most of the backlash that were currently in the front burners in the Niger Delta today would have been addressed without problems.
Kogbara's resignation which has not been accepted by the Federal Government is coming on the heels of the declaration by the Action Congress (AC) gubernatorial candidate in the April 2007 poll in Rivers State, Prince Tonye Princewill, that the present circumstances in the country had justified his resignation from the Vision 2020 Committee.
According to Kogbara, “I can confirm to you that I have left. I have resigned but my resignation has not been accepted. I just felt that I was not being respected enough, especially on my opinions and belief in the Niger Delta issues. I would have been happier if they had more Niger Delta people on the committee.”
She said she was appointed into the committee by former minister of FCT, Mallam Nasir el-Rufai, who felt she was needed in the committee for the purpose of interfacing with the public on goings on in the committee.
Asked whether there was adequate representation of the Niger Delta on the committee, she replied, “How can one person who is not well versed in engineering and petroleum matters represent the interest of the entire region?”
Recounting the things she told the committee to do before she got angry and left, Kogbara said: “'I demanded that they should organize road shows in Rivers and Cross River States to sensitise the people on the Petroleum Industry Bill (PIB) as well as have their input.”
She also said she felt that issues of poverty and infrastructural development ought to have been better handled by people in power and implemented alongside amnesty and across the country so that the peace and security would be generally addressed not only in the Niger Delta but nationwide.
On the position of the governors from the region to opt out of the amnesty extended to Niger Delta militants by the Federal Government, she said she was not well informed about the issue, but added that their canvassing for the best for the region was good if they had woken up from their slumber.
On his part, Princewill in a statement in Port Harcourt yesterday said Nigeria should adopt paradigm shift from the concentration on individuals to institutions for democracy to thrive as against the practice of few people staying in their bedrooms to determine the fate of the country and its people.
“I feel vindicated by the actions of the recent weeks when I decided to resign the office of the Chairman of the 2020 Vision subcommittee on Niger Delta. Some misguided elements were laughing at the gesture, but today I am not only vindicated but also proved that I had the foresight to highlight their lack of respect for the Niger Delta. From the bombings in Gbaramatu, to an inarticulate amnesty package for the goose that lays the proverbial golden egg has been abused.  This same goose provides the nation with its major economic mainstay and is one of the main focal points of a lacklustre implementation of Mr. President’s seven- point agenda,” he said

debosky:

I agree - you show glimpses of this as well.

First of all, Brass LNG has NOTHING to do with Exploration any more than a refinery does. It is a liquefaction plant and can be built almost anywhere as long as there is access to gas (either by long pipeline) and a means of export (coastal access).

Escravos is not an exploration complex - please educate yourself. It is an GTL processing plant that will convert gas to liquids using chemical processes (petrochemical conversion process).

Again, this is wrong - an LNG is a petrochemical facility, it involves processing and separation of petroleum raw materials, ditto the GTL project.

In any case, without even considering ANY of those examples, Warri has the Warri Refining and Petrochemical Plant http://www.nnpcgroup.com/nnpc-group/wrpc

So your assertion that there is no petrochemical plant in Warri is inaccurate.

Well I don't see how another university empowers the people in a way the existing ones cannot. We DO NOT need more universities - show me one piece of evidence that this would 'empower' people more than an institution (PTI)  designed to get them in by providing the NEEDED skills.
Send me journals if you like, I am always keen to learn. Again, I have given you examples - you do[b] not need[/b] to site a GTL plant on the coast, except you want to export products, it can be sited anywhere as long as you can pipe gas to it. THe WRPC exists right in Warri, not mentioning Eleme as well so there ARE petrochemical plants in the delta even if you decide to discount all my examples.

Be careful when you use terms - an LNG plant or a GTL plant can never be regarded as an exploratory facility. Exploratory facilities are the ones that produce oil and gas such as platforms, rigs, FPSOs or onshore wells and associated facilities.

They are processing facilities for converting oil and gas products into more useful/transportable forms just like a petrochemical plant. As earlier shown, there is copious evidence of petrochemical complexes in the Delta, including the fertilizer company.

Debosky again you dont get it. Ok thanks for defining the academic details of the projects. Why is there not an Excravos in Sokoto, please tell us since  the projects can be built anywhere as long as there is Gas. Then why is it not been built in Sokoto. Again within the context of the debate you cling to the word petrochemical complex, i used that phrase to try and conjoin what the minister said about London vs a vs Dundee and Aberdeen. In simple terms those projects are sited where they are for economic reasons simple its close to Gas, its close to what ever is required.

It can be sighted anywhere, please build piplines from Warri to Sokoto transport Gas and sight a GTL plant there. Thanks i will be careful in the narratives i have never stated i was an expert and this debate is not about GTL but i totally understand the strategic intent.

Ok explorative activities is Gas but these are processing facilities for converting. Forced investment in the regions, Ok in terms of Universities is there a federal one in the state the whole of Delta state has no federal university, there might be too much universities in the COUNTRY but are there too much in the STATE, how many in the state.When will this attitude of cancelling the previous government policies stop, lack of continuity is what got us here and what is keeping us here.

Again i summarise, a policy might be wrong the best approach might not necessarily be to reverse it, the 2 could be re-aligned and in this case i think that would have been a better alternative. Maintain the old PTI and build a new so called high cadre if it wants to.

debosky:

This is irrelevant - retreats are held in varying parts of the country and Kaduna is at best an hour flight away from anywhere in the Delta. People fly to London to study and go to remote locations for retreats, so what is this cost of personnel thing about?
How can you judge confidence on the basis of ONE investment? Is that not a myopic view? Is this the ONLY institute out there? What about the POLYTECHNIC in Bayelsa? What about the NATIONAL TECHNICAL INSTITUTE FOR GAS in Bonny? The NTI alone has an investment of ~4bn, is it not relevant? 

Again more falsehood - there is a petrochemical plant in Warri, Brass LNG is being built in the ND, so is Escravos GTL. The Eleme Petrochemical is in the ND, so is PHRC, so is Nigeria LNG - the petrochemical complex argument holds no water.
It is getting investments with numerous examples - the IPS in Port Harcourt, the NIT in Bonny, the PTI being refurbished, the Polytechnic in Bayelsa - there are numerous examples of investments. This ONE case is not any indicator that investment is being denied the ND. It will be ridiculous to expect EVERY investment to be there.

Debosky, there is an issue in Nigeria, and the issue is that a lot of us do no understand the issue of the Niger Delta.

See the links below, the so called investments you mentioned ie Brass LNG is a joint venture project and it has to do with exploration and as at February has not even been fully agreed with all parties. Excravos GTL, Gas to Liquid geeze how can you sight such examples becos i used the word petrochemical complex in the context of the debate did you not understand the point.

http://www.lngpedia.com/total-no-decision-yet-on-brass-lng/

The Excravos GTL again is an exploration complex.
http://www.hydrocarbons-technology.com/projects/escravos/


You have provided exploration projects as petrochemical complexes and tried to insinuate that since they are in Warri then what is the issue of having KPRC in Kaduna. Okay let me rephrase since the intent of my statement is being diverted. Why cant the government site Excravos GTL in Kaduna? If you can educate us on this i rest my case.

I am not judging confidence by the sighting of one school but my the total gesture of the governemnt it is an insincere one and from all its actions including this it is obvious. Please allow me to digress a bit frst it was the mantra of rule of law but we have seen that it is only applicable when it sooths the govt. Now a project that the end result can empower a people is been taking away. Your example of retreats and flying to venues for training etc again re-enforces comparative cost, i am not saying it can not be done but it is more expensive vis a vis an option of siting in the same place , comparative cost. I really dont get all this anymore.

My firend it is you that is trying to introduce false hood into this debate, those examples are not investments per say they are exploratory activities (forced investment) and are only there because of the availability of the natuaral resource. A lack of indepth understanding of isses is really obvious now. The government needs to properly legislate those explorative activities you mentioned, these projects and such activities are the whole issue of the agitation, the companies get away with anything as close as murder. Go to the villages for yourself and lets stop this comfort discussion. If you are interested i can send you journals that will inform you a bit more.

The government can as well sight Excravos in Sokoto?

Hi debosky,

First, i think you miss the point of a neutral place. I think there can be a neutral place, in the context of the Nation Nigeria i am sure you would agree that the agitation toward calaber and the agitation towards kaduna is different, we are not assuming Utopia here there will be agitaions so please lets not dwell on that.

Secondly even the decision to locate a refinery in Kaduna is so a phony one, not to digress the debate siting of a single refinery has little or nothing to do with the siting of this institute. These are 2 different issues lets keep it that way. The notion or impression that Kaduna already has already existing structures for petroleum study is far from the truth.

This arguement to me is on inconsistent policies and not on resource agitation. A policy can be wrong but to correct it you dont have to reverse it, it can be re-aligned.

Thanks for answering my question on the N9 billion, it goes to strengthen my arguement that there is a comparative advantage in Warri. I find it hard to understand when you mean there is no evidence to show this, in the first place is there a study to elaborate why the institute is sited in Kaduna and the advantages to the nation?

On the rule of thumb even considering proximity to work placements, cost of moving personnel and even proximity to networking with current professionals Warri is a better option (of course this is assuming a peaceful Warri which is what the government wants us to believe they are working on.)

debosky:


This does not make any sense. So to prove it expects things to change it must build every institution in the ND? What kind of thinking is this? Kaduna has an existing facility in the line of policy studies - it makes sense to upgrade that into a full institute along it's current functions.

Yes it does, investing in a region suggest confidence. The debate did not mention every institution please.

This all goes to show why there has to be trouble makers in the form MEND and the other miscreants to wake pople up. Imagine your village without an evening or night where Gas is flared 24 hours. For heaven sake what is a petrochemical complex doing in Kaduna when there is none in Warri or Yenogoa. Citing the example of the confused minister who should know better yes there is a training institute in London but he chose not to mention the numerous in Dundee and Aberdeen.

Cool that PTI and kaduna are clear in mandate and vision and should remain so, the previous government was mad and maybe the next will be senile and reverse this decision. Just a whole bunch of inconsistent policies, 10 years from today we will have this same arguement.

My summary is that the Niger Delta needs investment in what ever form it can get and citing a middle and high cadre training in the region is achievable. I am not from the region but clearly the reason for what has been done is not to have two seperate institution clear in vision and mandate.

debosky:

This is a distraction - Nigeria does not have a lack of university grade employees in the oil industry. We have hundreds (if not thousands) of University trained people both within and outside the country, yet a lot of them are not employed.

The PTDF ALONE has trained 596 MScs and 86 PhDs ABROAD - do we need additional universities??

UNIPORT has the institute of petroleum studies (IPS) http://www.ipsng.org/about.htm do we need more university grade people?  


Low level technical manpower is our main lack. That is why companies will bring in hundreds of Filipinos, Chinese, Bulgarians and the like to do work while all Nigerians want is the 'graduate' jobs.  

There is no reason for every petroleum institution to be located in the ND, though the ones in the ND should not be denied funds for the ones elsewhere.

That said, how much has been spent on PTI?

Over 9bn in the phase 1 upgrade, with the PTDF indicating over 17bn has been spent overall on the upgrades.

The upgrade is not making the Kaduna institute a university, it is an Institute, similar to Nigerian Institute for Policy and Strategic Studies (NIPSS) and will be called NIGERIAN INSTITUTE FOR PETROLEUM POLICY AND STRATEGY.

It is NOT a university - let's not get clouded by emotions here.

RuuDie:

Quite impressive Debosky. . . .  you hit the nail on the head there!

I currently work on a project site in the ND and I can see firsthand what you're refering to - there are lots of +ves in retaining the staus quos of such institutes as the PTI but lots of people will be too myopic about it!

Please the analysis does not pass the common sense test. It is absolutely fool hardy for the government to formulate policies without considering economic socio-political factors. The nation today is as a result of such decisions breeding unwarranted mistrust in the polity if need be why not choose a neutral place Jos, benin, Calaber etc. I totally agree it must not be sighted in the Niger Delta so please lets remove a bit of resource agitation from the arguement.

Debosky stated N9 billion has been spent in upgrading the PTI my question is was that money spent on upgrading the PTI to a university so again if this is the case the whole N9 billion has just been wasted. WHy not re-align the PTI to a comprehensive robust training institution that caters for both low and high cadre professionals. There is a structure that is on ground that can be maintained ie PTI then extending the capabilities to train the so called high cadre will be easier.

The issues is not the location but the fact that there has been an initial capital outlay and economies of scale would suggest that the incremental cost in terms of both human and capital of achieving a more robust institution would be cheaper in PTI. But again analysing the decision from a purely political perspective suggest the governement might not want to face a concentration risk again suggesting the sincerity of solving the problems in the region is not real. Its easy the government knows the problem will continue so its trying to diversity simple game theory it expects nothing to change so it opts to go far away.

I agree the upgrade of PTI to a university is unwarranted, the issue is the PTI can be improved to train both low cadre oil workers and also simultaneously or by extension have another institution for christ sake side by side train the so called "oil managers" training, cal it NIGERIAN INSTITUTE FOR PETROLEUM POLICY AND STRATEGY it that is what you want N9 billion has already been invested in building structures for this anyway.

This is just a clear case of a confused government that cant think clearly its policies. As stated earlier If need be to de-concentrate, if it must have 2 seperate institutions maybe from an administration point of view its easier to manage 2 different institutions why not choose a neutral place, Calaber, benin-city, Jos, Ilorin. The fact that the sighting of the instituion is kaduna will raise questions even in the most objective mind, questions that the government doesnt need now.

With a leader like our president taking such flimpsy and insensitive decision, God help Nigeria. the decision does not make economic or even political sense.

Papine u sound like an old secondary school mate,

How i go talk am now wey the whole world no go know, ok for secondary school u remember the term "base 2" if u remember then reply, if not sorry it aint u, just the same nick name with an old secondary school mate

Calling PH folks, can you guys pls assist, i also need the numbers for photo people i have heard of photo finesse and the likes. Pls i am awaiting replies.

Thanks guys for the help.

I have checked the links but they do not really contain much information.

Please i am still hunting for details.

Please i need information on various reception venues in Port Harcourt.

I have been informed of places like Lemaco Gardens/Halls, King David, PinPlace amongst others.

Please i need information on these places such as telephone numbers and opinions on these venues. Please feel free to say anything as i need honest opinions before making a choice.

Thank you.

Please i need information on various reception venues in Port Harcourt.

I have been informed of places like Lemaco Gardens/Halls, King David, PinPlace amongst others.

Please i need information on these places such as telephone numbers and opinions on these venues. Please feel free to say anything as i need honest opinions before making a choice.

Thank you.

Pastor AIO:

Jesus' point is that we are all equal in the fellowship of christianity. If in calling some people his son Paul was referring to a kind of superiority over the person then Paul is WRON[/b]G. Paul is human too and someone shudda [b]corrected him, much like he corrected Peter when Peter was being two faced towards gentiles. However I think that Paul was making a reference to the fact that he personally brought those people into the faith and that they've lived together in such a relationship that befits a father and son. A lot of people calling GO Daddy have never even stepped into his home.

Glory, lets note that Paul has kept the faith, he has finished his race.

Please tell i dont want to quote you out of context or wrongly the fact that all redeem members havnt stepped into Pastor Adeboye's house negates the son/father IN THE FAITH relationship. What do you mean by living together?

Pastor AIO asking questions a lot helps, have you asked a member of the redeem mission why they call Brother Adeboye Daddy GO and what is the scriptural base for it.

Its sad seeing christains attempting to bring down other christains without understanding or asking question, what spirit is at work?

This is no correction/reproof but perhaps back stabbing. Has any one written the ministry or asked a Pastor of the ministry for explanations on any of the issues, did Paul rebuke Peter behind him, did he go on stabing Peter after the rebuke.

KunleOshob:

This what jesus as to say about calling a pastor "daddy"

Matthew 23:6-10:
6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’
8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’[daddy] for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah.

Redeemed members and other pastor idolators please note.

Perhaps you shoud advise Paul as well.

1 Timothy 1 >>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Savior, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2 To Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.


Titus 1 >>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But has in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
4 To Titus, my own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

Why, though I might be much bold in Christ to enjoin you that which is convenient, 9 Yet for love's sake I rather beseech you, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

Philemon 1: 10
10 I beseech you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds

@SirJohn

Seems your hands are really itchy, i would appreciate discussions deviod of insults if thats too much to ask, then enjoy like Bro Kunle.

My question to you all please SHOW one just one non-tither that has prospered beyond "just being blessed".

There are no stories, so much for the "so called" knowledge (if it really is) and no proofs. Please refer to us to one non-tither that can show the proofs if not then please there is no debate.

kola oloye:

this thread is getting more and more interesting,minute by minute.

@KunleOshob
Bro, keep on the good works the Lord is with you

@ Brother Kola the lord is with you, keep on the good work

ttalks:

@away4real,

Do you know what it meant to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek? Note: Melchizedek was not called after the order of Christ as u put,it was the other way around.
Your answer to this qustion would determine my response to you.

You keep attacking Kunle with statements saying he's preaching heresy. I do not think you know what u are talking about.

Expecting ur answer.

@ ttalks, thanks for your response. Kunle had continously made unscriptural comments and i showed it, i didnt just attack him, i showed it.

At this point, to each his own, as i said in my first post tithing isnt getting anyone to heaven so i will leave it at that. God bless you if you tithe or not, priest or King, Abraham or Jacob. God bless

I guess we can study the lives of christains (not circular) that have propsered Kingdom way from ministers like Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin to businessmen like Peter J. Daniels and surprisingly like Oprah Winfrey. Read their auto biographies and books search what they say are their secrets, what they consider are the pillars of kingdom prosperity that is if some of you believe prosperity is scriptural.

Then show me one just one non-tither that has prospered beyond "just being blessed". I guess its all about what God has revealed to us individually and in addition who we choose to listen, i would rather listen to the one that has proofs fruits, than the one that all he has is talk.

KunleOshob:

I would strongly suggest that if you went to any fee paying school, you should go back to that school and ask for a refund as the money spent on your education is obviously a waste. The term heresy that you constanly use do you even know the meaning of that word or why it was introduced into the church's terminology.

Heresy is the rejection of one or more established beliefs of a religious body, or adherence to "other beliefs." Christian heresy refers to unorthodox practices and beliefs that were deemed to be heretical by one or more of the Christian churches. The term "heresy" most commonly refers to those beliefs which were declared to be anathema by the Church prior to the schism of 1054. However, since that time, various Christian churches have also used the concept in proceedings against individuals and groups deemed to be heretical by those churches

A lot of founding fathers of today's churches were described as heretics for instance Martin luther the father of protestanism was descriibed as an heretic by the catholic church becos he rebelled against them likewise william tynsdale was burnt at the stake for heresy Just becos he translated the bible into the English language against the will of the catholic church. Manipulative church leaders who want to impose there unscriptural beliefs on christians always call people that dare to challenge them heretics.

I would not continue to debate the issue of tithes with you as i have observed that you don't have the intelectual capacity to rise above the dogma you have been fed and study the word for your self. I leave you in your ignorance and darkness.

@ bro Kunle i noted earlier that the insults are quite unnecessary we should be able to maintain proper decorum while debating and disagree without taking the low road. I am above that and wont tow that line with you.

At the point i say God bless you, thank God you stopped the discussion i would have at this point. Intellectually am sure we are light years apart but again this is a public forum and anyone has the right to feel intelligent.