Bidam: I understand your school of thoughts.There are those who purport to believe in speaking in tongues but do not feel that tongues are necessary for all believers. However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is for all those who believe(Acts 2:38,39); therefore, speaking in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit's infilling is also for all those who believe.

Those who say that speaking in tongues is not necessary for all believers use the scripture in
First Corinthians 12:30 which says, ". . . do all speak with tongues?. . ." to prove their argument.

However, one could take a part of a verse of Scripture, or even one entire verse of Scripture out of its setting and try to prove anything with it. But we have to read the entire context to see what the writer is talking about.

To learn what Paul is talking about in First Corinthians 12:30, ". . . do all speak with tongues? .. ." we must read the entire context in First Corinthians chapter 12.

Having done that, then let's look specifically at verses 27 through 30.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:27-30
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first APOSTLES, secondarily PROPHETS,thirdly TEACHERS, after that MIRACLES, then GIFTS OF HEALINGS, HELPS,GOVERNMENTS,DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


What is Paul talking about in this passage of Scripture? He is talking about ministry gifts, not spiritual gifts.

Ministry gifts are those people in the Body of Christ who are called by God to stand in the fivefold ministry (Eph. 4:11,12). These apostles, prophets, teachers, and so forth, listed here in First Corinthians 12:27 and 28 are ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

For example, first, "apostles" is not a spiritual gift, but it is an office or a ministry gift.Second, "prophets" is not a spiritual gift, but it is a ministry gift. Third, "teachers," the office of a teacher, is not a spiritual gift, but a ministry gift, or one called to minister to the Body of Christ.

Therefore, in this passage of Scripture in First Corinthians 12:27-30, Paul is talking about ministry gifts, or those called to the fivefold ministry, not about spiritual gifts.


In order to see the difference between ministry gifts and spiritual gifts, let's look at the nine spiritual gifts, or gifts of the Spirit. Paul lists them in the first part of this chapter.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:8-10
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the WORD OF WISDOM; to another the WORD OF
KNOWLEDGE by the same Spirit;
9 To another FAITH [special faith] by the same Spirit; to another the GIFTS OF HEALING
by the same Spirit;
10 To another the WORKING OF MIRACLES; to another PROPHECY; to another
DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; to another DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; to another the INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES.


It is certainly true that gifts of the Spirit may be manifested through the laity, not just through ministry gifts or those called to the fivefold ministry, because the Bible does say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal" (1Cor. 12:7).


However, there are those in the fivefold ministry who are especially equipped with certain gifts of the Spirit in order to fulfill their office or function in the Body of Christ. We do not call those people spiritual gifts or gifts of the Spirit; they are ministries or ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

Paul talks about ministry gifts in writing to the Church at Ephesus. Paul said that when Jesus ascended on High, ". . . he led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men" (Eph. 4).What were those gifts? Paul goes on to list them. They are ministry gifts Jesus set in the Church.

EPHESIANS 4:11,12
11 And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS;
and some, PASTORS and TEACHERS;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the
body of Christ

Paul was talking about ministering in tongues in a public assembly with interpretation as a ministry gift, and not everyone does that. Ministering in tongues in public assembly with interpretation on more of a continual basis denotes the ministry gift of diversities of tongues most closely related to the office of the prophet, and not every believer has that gift. This is not referring to a believer who is used in tongues or interpretation of tongues on an occasional
basis Of course, every believer can have the gift of speaking in other tongues for private devotion.

The gifts of the Spirit are for all believers. But ministry gifts only refer to those who are called to
the fivefold ministry.(culled from Kenneth. E. Hagin "The Holy Spirit and His Gifts".

You said "Speaking in tongues eliminates the possibility of selfishness entering our prayer life." Now where in Scripture did you find such an instruction concerning speaking in tongues? The rest of what you teach here is also never taught in Scripture, but is simply a perversion of what Scripture actually teaches.

Bidam: I understand your school of thoughts.There are those who purport to believe in speaking in tongues but do not feel that tongues are necessary for all believers. However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is for all those who believe(Acts 2:38,39); therefore, speaking in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit's infilling is also for all those who believe.

Those who say that speaking in tongues is not necessary for all believers use the scripture in
First Corinthians 12:30 which says, ". . . do all speak with tongues?. . ." to prove their argument.

However, one could take a part of a verse of Scripture, or even one entire verse of Scripture out of its setting and try to prove anything with it. But we have to read the entire context to see what the writer is talking about.

To learn what Paul is talking about in First Corinthians 12:30, ". . . do all speak with tongues? .. ." we must read the entire context in First Corinthians chapter 12.

Having done that, then let's look specifically at verses 27 through 30.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:27-30
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first APOSTLES, secondarily PROPHETS,thirdly TEACHERS, after that MIRACLES, then GIFTS OF HEALINGS, HELPS,GOVERNMENTS,DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


What is Paul talking about in this passage of Scripture? He is talking about ministry gifts, not spiritual gifts.

Ministry gifts are those people in the Body of Christ who are called by God to stand in the fivefold ministry (Eph. 4:11,12). These apostles, prophets, teachers, and so forth, listed here in First Corinthians 12:27 and 28 are ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

For example, first, "apostles" is not a spiritual gift, but it is an office or a ministry gift.Second, "prophets" is not a spiritual gift, but it is a ministry gift. Third, "teachers," the office of a teacher, is not a spiritual gift, but a ministry gift, or one called to minister to the Body of Christ.

Therefore, in this passage of Scripture in First Corinthians 12:27-30, Paul is talking about ministry gifts, or those called to the fivefold ministry, not about spiritual gifts.


In order to see the difference between ministry gifts and spiritual gifts, let's look at the nine spiritual gifts, or gifts of the Spirit. Paul lists them in the first part of this chapter.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:8-10
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the WORD OF WISDOM; to another the WORD OF
KNOWLEDGE by the same Spirit;
9 To another FAITH [special faith] by the same Spirit; to another the GIFTS OF HEALING
by the same Spirit;
10 To another the WORKING OF MIRACLES; to another PROPHECY; to another
DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; to another DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; to another the INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES.


It is certainly true that gifts of the Spirit may be manifested through the laity, not just through ministry gifts or those called to the fivefold ministry, because the Bible does say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal" (1Cor. 12:7).


However, there are those in the fivefold ministry who are especially equipped with certain gifts of the Spirit in order to fulfill their office or function in the Body of Christ. We do not call those people spiritual gifts or gifts of the Spirit; they are ministries or ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

Paul talks about ministry gifts in writing to the Church at Ephesus. Paul said that when Jesus ascended on High, ". . . he led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men" (Eph. 4).What were those gifts? Paul goes on to list them. They are ministry gifts Jesus set in the Church.

EPHESIANS 4:11,12
11 And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS;
and some, PASTORS and TEACHERS;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the
body of Christ

Paul was talking about ministering in tongues in a public assembly with interpretation as a ministry gift, and not everyone does that. Ministering in tongues in public assembly with interpretation on more of a continual basis denotes the ministry gift of diversities of tongues most closely related to the office of the prophet, and not every believer has that gift. This is not referring to a believer who is used in tongues or interpretation of tongues on an occasional
basis Of course, every believer can have the gift of speaking in other tongues for private devotion.

The gifts of the Spirit are for all believers. But ministry gifts only refer to those who are called to
the fivefold ministry.(culled from Kenneth. E. Hagin "The Holy Spirit and His Gifts".

You said "Speaking in tongues eliminates the possibility of selfishness entering our prayer life." Now where in Scripture did you find such an instruction concerning speaking in tongues? The rest of what you teach here is also never taught in Scripture, but is simply a perversion of what Scripture actually says.

[quote author=Bidam]

Sunglow: .So how do you communicate with God?

I communicate with Father Yahweh through His inspired prophetic word with it not being added unto or taken away from. Scripture clearly teaches that we are to LIVE by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh and that the sword of the spirit which is His word is an integral part of the armour that we are to put on to fight off the wiles of the devil. This is also the weapon that Yahshua is said to use in Revelation when it speaks of the sharp double-edged sword that proceeds from his mouth. I also communicate ["pray"] to Him in the English language that I speak in accordance with the exemplary so-called "Lord's Prayer." that Yahshua instructed his disciple and the Apostles with. I do not believe in quoting this example as an actual "prayer" as many do, since I believe that it is more an outline of things to communicate to Father Yahweh about, so I use my own words in English asking the things within this outline. I also never commune with Father Yahweh in public.

Nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to speak in other languages or the false and demonic "UNKNOWN" or 'PRAYER" tongues taught by the charismatic Penticostal groups in this last time period.

Mr anony:
Lololol.....Hebrews 1:8 clearly refers to Christ as God. Psalm 45 from where it is taken makes it equally clear that He is God. You are the one who claimed that "God" there really meant "judge" and when were shown to be in the wrong, you manufactured another word 'ayil' that wasn't found anywhere in the text. When that also failed, you jumped to another tangent: an allegation of plagiarism against the HRV that had absolutely nothing to do with the text in question.

Despite all your jumping around all over the place, you still want to accuse others of twisting? Please don't make me laugh. Hebrews 1:8 speaks clearly and it says:

But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.


....and yes, Jesus Christ pre-existed His physical birth

Yes, in the translation that you are giving reference to it does, but in other translations he is not referred to as "God." and these are the translations that I am in agreement with:

Targum

Your beauty, O King Messiah, is more stunning than any mortal’s; your lips are endowed with the spirit of prophecy. Due to this the Lord has blessed you forever.

ArtScroll Tenakh Translation

Your throne, O judge, will exist forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

Moffatt Translation

"Your throne shall stand for evermore; for, since your sceptre is a sceptre just, since right you love and evil you abhor, so God, your God, crowns you with bliss above your fellow-kings" (Psalm 45:6-7). This would be Yahweh, Yahshua's Mighty One. Yahshua has not crowned himself. Yahweh will crown him when the time is right (Matthew 25:31; Luke 1:32).

"He says of the Son, God is thy throne for ever and ever, ..." (Hebrews 1:8, Moffatt). Someone else is the Mighty One ["Elohim, God, deity"], not Yahshua. Yahshua's throne is Yahweh ["Elohim, God, deity"].

New English Bible

"Your throne is like God's throne, eternal, your royal sceptre a sceptre of righteousness" (Psalm 45:6). Yahshua is not Yahweh ["Elohim, God, deity"]. Instead, Yahshua's throne is like Yahweh's ["Elohim's, God's"] throne.

"God is thy throne for ever and ever, ..." (Hebrews 1:8, Translator's footnote, N.E.B.).

Good News Bible

"Thy kingdom that God has given you will last forever and ever, ..." (Psalm 45:6). In this case, the throne represents the kingdom.

"God is your kingdom ..." (Hebrews 1:8, Translator's footnote Good News Bible).

Jewish Publication Society, O.T., 1916

"Thy throne given by God is for ever and ever, ..." (Psalm 45:7). Yahshua is not declaired to be Yahweh ["Adonai, Elohim, God, deity"]. Instead, Yahweh will give to Yahshua a throne which will last forever (Daniel 7:11-14; Luke 1:32; Revelation 3:21).

Isaac Leeser Translation

"Thy throne, given of God, endureth for ever: the sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore hath God, thy God anointed thee with oil of gladness above thy associates."

The Bible in Living English

'... but as to the Son "God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of integrity is the scepter of his reign".'

Revised Standard Version

"Your throne is a throne of God, ...:" (Psalm 45:6, R.S.V. Translator's footnote). The same notation is given in Hebrew 1:8, where this Scripture is quoted. This is true, because Yahshua is (at this time) sitting with the Father in the Father's throne. (Hebrews 1:3). Later, he will sit on his own throne, just as he now sits with the Father in the Father's throne (Revelation 3:21). A footnote in the New Revised Standard Version reads: 'Or, God is your throne ...'. A seperate footnote for the passage "... and the righteous sceptre is the sceptre of your ..." (the footnote in reference to "your" reads: 'other ancient authorities read his'.

American Standard Version

"Thy throne is the throne of God" (Margin: Psalm 45:6, A.S.V.).

Heinz W. Cassirer Version, N.T.

"... when referring to the Son he says, It is God who is your throne for ever and ever; and the sceptre showing forth the uprightness which you bear is the sceptre of God's kingdom. You have love righteousness and hated lawlessness. And so it is that God, who is your God, has has anointed you with the oil of gladness, giving you a greater share of it than any of your fellows.

Still quoting:

"Then there are these words: You, Lord [meaning Yahweh, Psalm 102:25], laid the foundations of the earth when it first took its rise, and the heavens are the work of thy hands" (Hebrews 1:8-10; cf. Deuteronomy 4:35-39; Isaiah 43:10, 44:24, 45:12-18).

There is no support here for "two Yahwehs, pre-existent, co-creator" Yahshua. Father Yahweh really is the Creator. He did it all ALONE, with no help (Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6-9).

For a free list of more than 100 Scriptures revealing who is the Creator. It was not Yahshua. Please ask for it at: http://www.halleluyah.org . Also available by E-MAILING THEM you can freely receive some 70+ studies that refute the "pre-existence of Yahshua, Holy Trinity, and two Yahwehs" doctrines.

End Notes:

Weymouth Version N.T. [Translator's footnote, Hebrew 1:8].

Quote:

"8. O God] Psalm 45 is a Royal Marriage song, and this translation involves the direct address of an earthly king by the title 'God.' The obvious difficulty has led to various conjectures:

(1) 'Thy throne is the throne of God' (so R.V. margin in the Psalm).

(2) 'Thy throne is God for ever and ever.'

(3) A corrupt Hebrew text, 'Yahweh' (God), being a mistake for the almost identical word meaning 'shall be,' - 'Thy throne shall be for ever and ever,' This conjecture is widely accepted, but the writer of the Epistle [to the Hebrews], in applying these words of the Psalm to the Son, would not feel the difficulty; 'Thy throne, O God' may stand." (Emphasis added).

Weymouth indicates the word Yahweh (God) does not actually appear in the original text. If this is true, then the word 'O God' should not be in the first clause of Psalm 45:6, but should read as #3 above:

"Thy throne shall be for ever and ever ..." This is the way Moffatt reads in Psalm 45:6, noted above. The thought is, once Yahshua sits on his own throne (as heir to the throne of David), his rulership will endure forever. There is no support here for two Yahwehs, or for the pre-existence of Yahshua. It is a mistake to take an ambiuous verse in the King James Version and make it into a doctrine which opposes the cardinal principle of the Scriptures,

"Hear O Isryl: Yahweh our Mighty One is ONE YAHWEH" (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Gesenius Hebrew Grammer (Kautzsch-Cowley), 1949 reprint says, on page 415 paragraph (b): "In Psalm 45:7 chis-a-cha' El-o-him' (usually explained as thy divine throne). El-o-him' is most probably a later addition [another suggestion is to read chEl-o-him' like God('s throne: compare section 141 d, note]."

Did Father Yahweh call His Son "God"?
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/734899456/did-father-yahweh-call-his-son-god

Mr anony:
It is interesting to notice how you are deceitfully trying to stir away from the topic at hand by focusing on the tangent of an allegation of plagiarism against the HRB which has absolutely thing to do with whether or not Yahshua is Elohim.

Please stay on course. . . .and if you cannot contest the verses put before you, concede the fact that Jesus is God, repent of your sins and be on your way. Trying to evade the topic does not help you at all.

I have already answered the question. It is not my fault that you are not satisfied with it and that your whole agenda is only to twist Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word in an attempt to promote your false and demonic doctrines "Jesus IS God!" and "Jesus pre-existed his birth."

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

frosbel:

I wonder !!

Babel is truly what most churches are today, total confusion, if it's not the pagan trinity, it's speaking in supposedly angelic mysterious tongues , or worst still eternal live roasting of human beings in a furnace of burning sulphur.

Mystery Babylon indeed.

Growing up I have been to a number of diverse churches with my mother that proclaimed their group spoke in tongues, yet never once witnessed anyone speaking in tongues (languages). All I ever witnessed was a bunch of foolish gibberish and the ones doing the gibberish continuing in disobedience to Father Yahweh instruction.

I also do not believe their lies about people dying in sin and continuing to LIVE in a firey eternal torment:

Oh Hell!
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/YAHWEHFrank/OhHell.html

Bidam: Going through the beginning of the thread once more to highlight some vital points on why believers should speak in an unknown tongue.

Paul, in writing to the Church at Corinth, encouraged the Corinthian Christians to continue the practice of speaking with other tongues in their worship of God. He also encouraged them to speak in tongues in their individual prayer lives as a means of spiritual edification or building up. The Bible says, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifi-eth himself. . ."(1Cor. 14:4).


Jude 20 also links praying in tongues with building yourself up spiritually.

20 But ye, beloved, BUILDING UP YOURSELVES on your most holy faith, PRAYING IN
THE HOLY GHOST.

Howard Carter, who was one of the Pentecostal world's most renowned teachers on the subject of spiritual gifts, said we must not forget that speaking with other tongues is not only the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit's infilling, but is also a continual experience for the rest of one's life.

For what purpose? To assist us in the worship of God. "Speaking in tongues," Rev Carter said,"is a flowing stream that should never dry up, and that will enrich one's life spiritually." 'The Apostle Paul said that speaking with tongues will edify or build us up spiritually. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" (1 Cor. 14:2).


Moffatt's translation of this verse says, ". . . he is talking of divine secrets in the Spirit." Paul was saying here that God has given to the church a divine, supernatural means of communication with Him.


Paul also stated in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, MY SPIRIT PRAYETH, but my understanding is unfruitful." Notice he said, ".. . my spirit prayeth. ..."The Amplified Bible reads, ". . . my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays. . . ." God is a spirit. When you pray in tongues, your spirit is in direct contact with God, who is a Spirit. When you speak in tongues, you are talking to Him by divine, supernatural means.

NOTE:Pls there is a difference between the ministry gifts of tongues and devotional gifts of tongues.

Why would anyone desire to speak in an UNKNOWN tongue when their desire should be to speak in a KNOWN tongue?

hisblud:

You see, your mix up is when you try to use scripture to judge scripture [some scriptural comparison maybe allowed] instead of taking it in context, you would fumble... at times i wonder if reading the bible in english has really helped us or not.... but no problem, thank God for the Hebraic Roots Bible which helps....

I accept Yahshua as Messiah but I also accept Him as Elohim which is where you fail... think again

Hebraic Roots Version?
http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/plagiarisms/hrvpage.htm

hisblud: Hmm, any more anti trinitarian who would be kind enough to help frosbel, ijawkid, boomark, frank4yahweh to answer Heb 1.8, one verse is making the above mute, unable to prove that Yashua is NOT Elohim [God]...

The problem is, Scripture nowhere teaches "Yahshua is Elohim" [God]." Scripture clearly teaches that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. I myself never give reference to FATHER Yahweh or His SON Yahshua by the name/title 'Elohim.' I prefer to refer to FATHER Yahweh in our English langauge as 'Mighty One' and to distinguishing Him from other 'mighty ones' I refer to Him as 'Almighty One.' This is why I had mentioned one of the root words from where 'El, Eloah, Elohim, etc. derived. It originally has the meaning of power, strength, might and can give reference to anything. Ayil as compared to a ram and in like manner another root of the same catigory which is yl is campared to an oak tree in Hebrew. The "Mighty Oak" and a ram signify power.

"Prayer language"? When Yahshua instructed his disciples and the Apostles to commune ["pray"] to our Heavenly FATHER and Creator IN HEAVEN [known as "The Model Prayer"] when he himself was HERE ON EARTH, he did not instruct them to speak or commune ["pray"] in an "unknown" or even another language. Yahshua most likely communed with his and our FATHER Yahweh in the Hebrew language, since this is the language the he spoke from Heaven to the Apostle Shaul.

frosbel:

Is there a special group who speak in tongues ?

Pentecostal? Although the word itself has nothing to do with speaking gibberish! Or maybe Holy Rollers?

"Prayer language"? When Yahshua instructed his disiples and the Apostles to commune ["pray" - known as "The Model Prayer"] to our Heavenly FATHER and Creator IN HEAVEN when he himself was HERE ON EARTH, he did not instruct them to speak or commune ["pray"] in an "unknown" or even another language other than that of their own. Yahshua most likely commune with his and our FATHER Yahweh in the Hebrew language, since this is the language the he spoke from Heaven to the Apostle Shaul. Nowhere in Scripture are we ever instructed to pray in a language other than that of our own.

Bidam: I can understand why frosbel and the other JW fellow are trying so hard to agree on your monotheistic views about God even when they don't quite agree on some of your doctrines.You even went as far as digging some of my topics just to prove a point.I would not want to go into lengthy and vain arguments with you here but let me explain my post as to why i said God is beyond our understanding for the benefit of others.This is what the bible says about God and i can bring scriptures to validates all these points here.

1.The Father is God.
2.The Son is God.
3.The Father is not the Holy Spirit.
4.The Holy Spirit is God.
5.The son is not the Holy Spirit.

All these points are scriptural proofs which can't be debunked by you and other folks till thy kingdom come because it is bv in scriptures.Infact i make bold to say here that it is the concept of the unitarian God that is illogical.Frosbel use to argue here that God is just a spirit,well if God is just a spirit he will be no greater than the angels since that is all the angels are,and lucifer will have a chance in the war in heaven if God is only a spirit.

I believe God to be more than just a spirit since he created all the angels and that was why i said the infinite God is beyond what our finite minds can grasp.

All monotheistic religions claim that God is all-knowing(omniscient). If God knows all He must be able to see everything and then He must be everywhere all at once which makes God omnipresence.Now the meat of the gist is that if God is omnipresent he will have to be greater than our 3 dimensional world because a 3 dimensional being can never be omnipresent.In other words God is hyper dimensional or infinitely dimensional,let's see what prophet Isaiah has to say about this.

Isaiah 40:28 (KJV)

28 Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching of His understanding.

Isaiah 40:28 (CEB)

28 Don’t you know? Haven’t you heard?
The Lord is the everlasting God,
the creator of the ends of the earth.
He doesn’t grow tired or weary.
His understanding is beyond human reach,

Isaiah 40:28

28 Surely you know the truth.
Surely you have heard.
The Lord is the God who lives forever!
He created all the faraway places on earth.
He does not get tired and weary.
You cannot learn all he knows.

The truth is since we are 3 dimensional beings we have a limit in our understanding logically about a hyper dimensional being such as God.For example a two dimensional world will never understand that a square can be made like a cube,it will only look like a sqaure to him no matter where it changes so he has to trust and believe the explanations of someone living in a 3 dimensional world that the square is actually a cube.And so is God attributes in hyper dimensional terms according to scriptures,Paul understood it and that was why he said the multifaceted and multidimensional wisdom of God which the age does not know neither could it comprehend it.The concept of trinity by bible scholars of old is hence the perfect explanations of the attributes of God as a hyper dimensional idea that can be explainable to us.Thanks and God bless.

You forgot point number six, right?

6. The Holy Spirit is the son.

I am quite familiar with all the verses and pages of Scripture that Trinitarians pervert in an attempt to promote their doctrine of a so-called "Holy Trinity."

I am of a one Mighty One ["monotheistic"] religion! Where in Scripture does it ever "claim that God is all-knowing(omniscient)" in the sense that "He must be able to see everything and then He must be everywhere all at once ..."?

My point is that nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture will you ever find it "clearly stated", explained or taught 'Jesus IS God!', 'God the Son' or "The Son is God." Also, nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to make, confess ["state"] and believe such perverted word phrases. What I am asked to believe and confess in accordance with Scripture says is that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh ["God"]. I do not have to pervert the inspired prophetic word of FATHER Yahweh to force into His teaching dogmatic doctrines of mere men that are nowhere found in Scripture. The only place you will find such statements made is from the mouths of false prophets who wrest [twist, pervert] the Scripture to their own detruction. You will certainly not find such statements proceeding from the mouth of FATHER Yahweh or from His son's mouth!

Sal C: Weird tongues indeed!

The truth remains that speaking in tongues is not for everyone.

Especially for those who teach in accordance with Father Yahweh's truth!

hisblud: @Frank4Yahweh

Read your long letter to Hisblud Was like but in any way, you did not address my observation of the word ELOHIM i raised before the Echad stuff.

Now as i earlier said, the word that keeps staring at me was ELOHIM in verse 2 and 6 of Psalm 45. And my query was why would you or anyone choose to assign the word Judge for Elohim (God) for one verse while for the other is Elohim for God. This what i mean, in verse 2,



Agree that its God, Elohim while in verse 6



In your statement, here


It seems double standard, looking at the strongs' concordance, the word used as God is Elohiym in verse 2 as well as in verse 6. Moreover i looked up the word "Judge" in the Old testament and it was not "Elohiym" but the word "HashopeeT" .

[size=15pt]So my question is this if i can use Judge for Elohim in verse 6, i can as well use Judge in verse 2? Do you copy my question?

[/size]

Kindly look at the images below. The first is God in verse 2, the second is God in verse 6 and the last image is Judge

The word 'ayil' means: mighty ones, leaders, nobles of state. Would not this include judges? As to your question, it would depend on the context as to how it is to be translated, right?

Bidam: 14:2 “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God” for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.”.Unknown here doesn't mean it is GIBBERISH, It can mean a foreign language. It doesn't mean nobody could ever possibly learn it.Well, God understands any tongue you speak in. “...for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” If I say something to malians in an Eskimo dialect, no man understands me because it is unknown. But that doesn´t mean I´m talking in a tongue that God doesn´t know or somebody else doesn´t know. What paul is saying is when you talk in a tongue that nobody knows, then nobody understands it. Amen? Look at verse sixteen, “Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?”.

Well i don't know and i don't care either where you got your informations from about the error in the KJV version of unknown, but what i do known is that praying in tongues privately has help my christian life tremendously and has made me to be a better christian in evangelizing and witnessing to souls that are lost out there, most times in my quiet time with God,i used to get messages on who to talk to about Christ and the truth is,it has worked perfectly for me cos most times when i tell people i have never met before about God.The Holy Spirit tells me some secrets about that person and the person used to be amazed as to how i know about him without him telling me his life story.So let God be true and every man be a liar. If the KJV is false,then I'd rather stick to what gives me testimony than your interpretations.

You are taking 1 Corinthians 14:2 out of context in an attempt to deceive, since it goes on to say "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, UNLESS SOME ONE INTERPRETS, so that the assemby may be edified."

It is speaking of SOME who do not understand and then it goes on to say that there would be one who INTERPRETS. An iterpreter would most certainly understand the one who was speaking in a language (tongue) or they would not be able to interpret.

Ahh! So you would rather follow in an error rather than follow the true meaning of what is being said in Scripture? That has been quite obvious to me from your arriving on Jump Street.

superior1:

It is not much of whether UNKNOWN is added or not, the Tongues in those verses are UNKNOWN tongues to Man (that is the main issue)

Since "unknown tongues" was added, then it was not of the original Scripture and there would be no such expression as "unknown tongues". As I had just made known to you. The word "unknown" should have been "other" and in correcting this error it would properly read "other tongues" and in turn there would be no such expression as "UNKNOWN tongues" originally mentioned in Scripture. "OTHER tongues" would in fact be KNOWN to man by interpretation of those languages (foreign languages) (PLURAL). Yes, this is in reference to more than one KNOWN language.

Again, the erroneous term "unknown tongue" is used but six times in the King James (I Corinthians. 14:2,4,13,14,19, and 27) and in every instance, the word unknown is in italics, signifying that the original Greek manuscripts did not contain this or any such word. It was erroneously added by the translators and should be taken out. Thw Greek 'glossa' is clearly used to represent a KNOWN language, as in Revelation. 10:11, 13:7 and 17:15 where some combination of "... peoples, and multitudes, and nations and tongues [Greek: glossa—languages] ..." is used.

Note: the statement in Yahchanan Mark 16:17, which states in part: "…they shall speak with new tongues" is part of what is called, "The Longer Ending of Mark," and is not found among the oldest Greek Manuscripts. Others contain it, but make notation that it is "questionable." It is also clear that the Apostles did NOT speak with "NEW tongues" 50 days later on Pentecost, because we have this undeniable statement of Scripture stating that: "... we do hear them speak in OUR languages the wonderful words of Yahweh".

Now we know that the languages of the Medes, Cretes, Asians, Elamites, Parthians, Egyptians, Arabians, etc., spoken on Pentecost were anything but "new tongues," as these tongues/languages are old as the hills. And we know that the Scriptures do not contradict, so it is absurd for any tongue-talkers to use this very questionable verse as justification for babbling something they may contend is a "new" or different kind of language promised by the Messiah.

truthislight:

You can believe whatever you want.
Whatever !

Yes, I can, and I choose to believe the truth in accordance with what Scripture teaches!
There is no so-called "Holy Trinity" doctrine taught in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness. The following passage of Scripture is in reference to the so-called "Old Testament" Scripture, since the so-called "New Testament" Scripture had not yet been written and compiled when this was said:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto ALL righteous works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Note that it says that with these so-called "Old Testament" Scripture alone that the man of Yahweh is THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto ALL righteous works. It also says that these so-called "Old Testament" Scripture are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Most Christian religions teach that Father Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"] has been "done away with" and nailed to a pagan cross when this is the Scripture that Yahshua, his disciples and the Apostles lived by. They lived by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh in order that they may be perfect and without sin just like our "Great Exemplar", Yahshua.

truthislight:

You can believe whatever you want.
Whatever !

Yes, I can, and I choose to believe the truth in accordance with what Scripture teaches!

superior1:

Lol.. Divers of tongues is different from speaking in unknown tongues,one is a gift another the expression of baptism of Holy Ghost.

There is no such expression as "unknown tongues" originally mentioned in Scripture! See my post at #64. As frosbel said, "uttering gibberish." This is what "speaking in unknown tongues" is! Duh!

In every occurrence of "unknown tongue," in the New Testament, the word "unknown" is an added word (italicized in the KJV) by the translators to make the English readable. It is not in the Manuscripts!

In the King James Bible you see some words in italics. These are words that they had to add to properly translate the Hebrew/Greek into English. As we can see, they did not always add the right words. But they were faithful in that they placed the words that they added in italics so that we would know that the words do not appear in the original Manuscripts as such.

Check your Strong's for the word "unknown" in: 1 Corinthians 14:2,4,13,14,19,27; it is not there in the printed versions, and in the electronic versions it lists the definition for "tongues" not "unknown."

The false teachers have seized upon a word that isn't even in the Scriptures and built a whole false doctrine around it. In Acts the words are "other tongues" not UNKNOWN tongues.

truthislight: No one said that Jesus was created during the six days creation days in Genesis.

I certainly never said or suggested that anyone here said that Yahshua was created during the six days creation days in Genesis, but there are certainly many who believe that he was created or had always existed with his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator in the beginning. I have never heard any specifics from anyone who believes that Yahshua was directly created as to what point in time in the beginning he was created. Such a belief is of no importants to me, since I do not believe that he was directly created in the beginning. I believe that many believe that his SON was created by his and our FATHER before anything else was created. I believe this to be a false doctrine that is not in accordance with what Scripture teaches.

ijawkid:

Lol........

Isn't proskneo what you want to eat this night??......I just provided a verse....I just want u to realize that I know when to literally use that word as worship when its in linked to Yahweh...because that is the one GOD I worship.......

See one of the scriptures u quoted....

Genesis 22:5

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Stay here with the donkey,"
Abraham told the servants. "The
boy and I will travel a little
farther. We will worship there,
and then we will come right back."


Please who was abraham going to worship??.......

The one invisible GOD the Father who no one hath seen or some physical fleshly man??......

Now you can understand what I mean by worship when its linked to Yahweh.......

You are right! I would also like to point out that Yahshua is most certainly worthy of *"worship", but not as his and our Heavenly FATHER and Creator Yahweh, but as the promised Messiah the SON of FATHER Yahweh whom He sent into the world just like all the other prophets before him.

*Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/worship.html

Yahshua: The First of Yahweh's Creation?

"Theses things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of Yahweh's creation" (Rev. 3:14, RSV).

Being identified as "the faithful and true witness," both here and in Rev. 1:15, makes clear that "Amen": is indeed a reference to Yahshua, the Messiah.

This being true, does this also mean that, first of all, the Supreme Being (Yahweh) created His son Yahshua, and only later created the angels, the stars, the sun, moon and earth, then last of all, created man upon the earth? Indeed no.

We must realize: there are two creations spoken of in Scriptures:

(1) The six day creation of physical things of which Adam was a part; Adam, the first man ever to exist (Gen. 1:27; 2:7,19; 1 Cor. 15:45). Because it was physical, this creation quickly fell into unrighteousness and, as a consequence, death entered; and that by the transgression of one man - Adam). And so, death passed to all men (Rom. 5:12).

Death: the enemy of all the physical creation, and especially the enemy of mankind (1 Cor. 15:25,26). The present creation could be called. "the creation in which dwelleth UNrighteousness."

(2) But there is to be another creation; a creation in which dwelleth righteousness. This creation consist of a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13). The Prophet Isaiah predicted the same (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22). The Apostle John too, declared there will one day be a New Heaven and a New Earth (Rev. 21:1). Nothing unclean will enter there Sorrow and crying will flee away. There will be no more curse (Rev. 21:4; 22:3).

"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be remembered, nor come into mind. .... For, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy" (Isa. 65:17,18).

"For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make ..." (Isa. 66:22).

Abraham and the ancient Saints looked to the future for a homeland, a better country, a city whose maker is Yahweh (Heb. 11:14,15). And Yahweh has prepared for them a city (Heb. 11:16; Rev. 21:2).

Theses Scriptures speak of "The World Tomorrow."

"For it was not to the angels that Yahweh subjected the WORLD TO COME, of which WE ARE SPEAKING," [but to the seed of Abraham] (Heb. 2:5, 16, RSV).

"And Yahshua said to them, the sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that AGE and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry or are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the RESURRECTION" (Luke 20:34-36).

"So with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a SPIRITUAL body" (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

Yahweh s planning a new creation; a creation in which the true Believers will posses spiritual bodies which do not decay. This comes about by the resurrection from the dead and the grave. Yahshua was the first to rise from the dead. He was declared to be the Son of Yahweh by this very act; his resurrection from the dead (Rom. 1:1-4). If Yahshua had not pleased the heavenly Father, he would still be in the grave today ... [and would not be Father Yahweh's son].

But he did please the heavenly Father, and so, became the firstfruits of the resurrection - the first to receive immortality; a new creation (1 Cor. 15:20-24).

"He [Yahshua] is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn of all creation ..." (Col 1:15). The creation under consideration is the new (the spiritual) creation, revealed in verse 18:

"He is the head of the body, the assembly; he is the beginning. the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent" (Col. 1:18).

For the redeemed, there will be a conversion, a change (a creation) of our physical bodies into spiritual bodies, thus a new social order; spiritual bodies (people) who are immortal, everlasting, indestructible; incorruptible; a spiritual * society fro the new earth in which dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:13).

Conclusion

In view of the Scriptures noted above, Rev. 3:14 must not be considered as evidence that Yahshua was created before (or during) the six day creation recorded in Genesis.

So Yahshua, The Amen, the faithful and true witness, truly is the BEGINNING OF YAHWEH'S CREATION - The NEW Creation.


* Please keep in mind that the physical is real, but the spiritual is more real.

[b]SOURCE:[/b]http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/757756028/the-pre-existence-of-yahshua

Bidam: So are you telling us the Christ in heaven is 100% Man?

The Man, Yahshua

Before his death, Yahshua was referred to as "man," or "the son of man," approximately 65 times as recorded in Scripture. He referred to himself as "the son of man."

Yahshua is also recorded on one occasion in translation of the so-called "New Testament" as referring to himself as "me, a man" (Yahchanan [John] 8:40). Scripture clearly teaches that FATHER Yahweh is not "a man" (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuyl 15:29; Hoseyah 11:9; Iyyob 33:12; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). Not once is it ever recorded in ANY translation of the so-called "New Testament" as Yahshua the SON OF FATHER Yahweh giving reference to himself as "God" or "a god".

After his resurrection, even after he ascended into heaven, he was referred to as "man," or "son of man," more than 30 times. Total equals more than 95 times.

Before His Resurrection
A man among men

Matthew
8:20; 9:6; 10:23; 11:19; 12:8,32,40; 13:37,41; 16:13,27,28; 17:9,12,22; 18:11; 20:18,28; 25:13; 26:2,24,45

Mark
2:10,28; 8;31; 9:9,12,31; 10:33,45; 13:34; 14: 21,21,41

Luke
6:5,22; 7:34; 9:22,44,56,58; 11:30; 12:8,10; 17:22; 18:8,31; 19:10; 22:22,48; 24:7

John
1:51; 3:13,14; 5:27, 6:7,53,62; 8:28; 12:23,34,34; 13:31

Acts
2:22

After His Resurrection
And at his second coming

Dan. 7:13 - A man from heaven
Mt. 19:28 - A man from heaven
Mt. 24:7 - A man from heaven
Mt. 24:30 - A man from heaven
Mt. 24:37 - A man from heaven
Mt. 24:39 - A man from heaven
Mt. 24:44 - A man from heaven
Mt. 25:13 - A man from heaven
Mt. 25:31 - A man from heaven
Mt. 26:64 - A man in heaven
Mk. 8:38 - A man from heaven
Mk. 13:26 - A man from heaven
Mk. 14:62 - A man in heaven
Lk. 9:26 - A man from heaven
Lk. 12:40 - A man from heaven
Lk. 17:24 - A man from heaven
Lk. 17:26 - A man from heaven
Lk. 17:30 - A man from heaven
Lk. 21:27 - A man from heaven
Lk. 21:36 - A man from heaven
Lk. 22:69 - A man in heaven
Jn. 1:51 - A man in heaven
Jn. 3:14 - A man in heaven
Acts 7:56 - A man in heaven
Acts 17:31 - A man in heaven
Rom. 5:15 -
1 Cor. 15:21 -
1 Cor. 15:47 - A man from heaven
1 Tim. 2:5 - A man, Yahshua Messiah
Rev. 1:13 - A man in heaven
Rev. 14:14 - A man in heaven

Please note that Yahweh and the Scriptures state emphatically that HE IS NOT A MAN (or human in any sense of the word).

Yahweh is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it right? (Numbers 23:19).

And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor relent. For He is not a man, that He should relent (1 Samuyl 15:29).

Behold, in this you art not right: I will answer you, that Yahweh is greater than man (Iyyob [Job] 33:12).

I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am Yahweh, and not man; the set apart One in the midst of you: and I will not enter into the city (Hosheyah [Hosea] 11:19).

The Complete Jewish Bible translates this verse even clearer for us:

Hosea 11:9 I will not give vent to the fierceness of my rage, I will not return to destroy Efrayim; for I [Yahweh] am Elohim, not a human being, the Holy One among you; so I will not come in fury. (CJB)"

SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/760190434/the-man-yahshua

hisblud: look at the rendering of deut 6:4 in the Hebraic Root Bible
KJV
Deut 6:4

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
KJV


HRB
4 Hear, O Israel, YAHWEH our Elohim is YAHWEH echad.3

Footnote reads not one as in 1 book,


From another Hebrew version

Quoted from the Orthodox Jewish Bible.

notice echad is used

ECHAD - The Meaning of One

It is strange that "one" (the number that equals half the value of two) really means one(1) {O-N-E} in every case under the sun which man puts it to except when it refers to the Supreme Being. In school, in math, in business, in book-keeping, and in football,"one" really means one. But when it refers to Yahweh, it can then (supposedly) mean one, two or three,owing to the religious view of the person speaking. This is astonishing. One can equal ONE, TWO or THREE. If this is true of one, why is it not true of four as well? Perhaps four can equal eight, twelve or sixteen.

To find "proof" for the pre-existence of Yahshua, some people tend to ignore Old Testament Scriptures and get most of their"proof" from the New Testament. But they forget that the New Testament depends on the Old for its existence, its very being. Yahshua and the Apostles proved their doctrine by Old Testament Scriptures, so why shouldn't we?

Contradictions & Additions

What happens when there is a contradiction in our English Versions between the Old Testament and the New Testament.Thankfully, this happens in only a few places, but it does happen. The Old Testament tells us that Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth (Nehemyah 9:6; Isayah 45:18). The New Testament tells us Yahshua created all things (Eph. 3:9; Heb. 1:2).

If the contradictions is in reference to the pre-existence of Yahshua, most people are willing to forget the Old, original Scriptures and accept English translations of the New. This is contrary to the teachings of Yahshua and the Apostles. For doctrine, they relied on the Old Scriptures (2Tim. 3:14-17).

Please be aware that it is indeed possible for glosses to appear in the Sacred Writings. A good example is 1 John 5:7-8 which was not found in any Greek manuscript or English Bible until the 16th century. if it were impossible for additions and subtractions to appear in the Sacred Writings, there would have been no need for warnings against making additions and subtractions (Rev. 22:18; Deut. 4:2, 12:32; Prov. 30:6; Eccl. 3:14).

Echad = One

An original number names a place in a sequence,as follows: first, second, third, forth, etc. In contrast, a cardinal number tells how many; one,two, three, ten, or twenty-five. Both echad and one are cardinal numbers, Therefore, being a cardinal number, echad (one) tells us how many; only one Yahweh (Deut. 6:4; John 17:13). Ignoring this fact, some hope, by a play on the word, to make echad mean more than one. In reality, echad (#259) has exactly the same meaning as the English word one; namely, half the value of two. Some make the claim that echad means unity, and Strong's Concordance is sited as proof. But is this proof? No. Because Mr. James Strong believed in the pagan doctrine of the Trinity, he only stated this so others would have an accuse to believe in the Trinity as he did.

Please examine Mr. Strong's Lexicon of Hebrew words. He says echad (#259), means unity, but notice this revealing bit of evidence. According to Strong's Concordance, not once did the King James men translate echad as "unity", at least occasionally. But no. Never once is this done.

Mr. E. W. Bullinger's comment in the Companion Bible is also cited. About Deut, 6:4 he wrote, "One: Hebrew, 'ehad [echad misspelled?] = compound unity (Latin, unus), one made up of others; Gen. 1:5, one of seven; 2:11, one of four; 2:21, one of twenty-four; 2:24, one made up of two; 3:22, one of the Trinity, ..."

According to Mr. Bullinger, echad equals one (or as many as twenty four?). People, he only threw down a smoke screen. Why did he tell us this? Because he too believed in the pagan doctrine of the Trinity, and needed support for it.

How is the Hebrew word (echad) translated in the King James Bible? Let us look at some reliable evidence in Young's Concordance. Turn to "echad" listed in Young's Lexicon, please. Here are the ways in which echad is translated in the King James Bible:

a (an) 56 times

a certain 09 times

another 31 times

any 17 times

a portion 11 times

each one 02 times

every 04 times

few (pl) 03 times

first 36 times

once 10 times

only 04 times

other 30 times

some 05 times

one 497 times

Echad is translated one time each by the following words:alike, alone, altogether, anything, each man, man, at once, with one consent.

Echad: Translated "Some" (5 times)

Five times the word echad is in the King James Bible translated"some." Obviously, the word "some" is plural and, in most cases, means more than one. But let us examine the Scripture references in which echad is translated "some."

"Come now, therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, ... (Gen. 7:20).

Obviously, Jacob's son planned to cast Joseph's body into ONE pit, not TWO or THREE pits - somewhere in the area. The NIV Interlinear reads "one of" these pits. A great many versions agrees; such as the RSV, ASV, Emphasized, Moffatt, Lamsa, Good News, etc.

"Some" is clearly a poor choice for translating echad. The other four references are: 1 Sam. 27:5; 2 Sam. 27:9,12;2 Kings 2:16.In every one of these, the NIV Interlinear reads, "one of", not"some."

Achadim Translated "Few"

As can be immediately noticed, this is not the Hebrew word echad, but a plural kindred word, achadim, so we need not spend more time studying it at this time. However, the references are only three:Gen. 27:44, 29:20; Dan. 11:20.

Yachad = Unity

Since some have stressed the word "unity," perhaps it will be helpful to call attention to a related word, "yachad."Please notice that unity is not translated from echad, but from yachad. But only one time (Ps. 133:1). Once yachad is translated "unite"(Gen. 49:6), and once "united" (Ps. 86:11). Yachad is also translated together, 120 times.

Ke-echad

Perhaps we should mention one other word; the compound word"ke-echad," translated "together" five times (Ezra 2:64,3:9, 6:20; Nehemyah 7:66; Isayah 65:25). Once the people gathered in one place they were ke-echad; that is together.

Echad: A Cardinal Number

One = echad

Two = Shenayim

Three = shalosh, sheloshah

Four = arba

Five = chamesh, chamisha

Six = Shesh, shishshah

Seven = sheba, shibah

Eight = shemoneh, shemonah

Nine = tesha, tishah

Ten = eser, asarah

The Testimony of Scriptures

* "...know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that Yahweh is Elohim in heaven and on the earth beneath; there is NO OTHER" (Deut. 4:35,39). This is Mono-el-ism.

Webmaster's Note: The above verse clearly makes it known "... that Yahweh is the Almighty One, [{God}Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex.20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] in heaven and on the earth beneath; there is NO OTHER." Is there any mention whatsoever of a doctrine throughout the whole of Scripture (so-called "Old Testament" and "New Testament"] of "Jesus IS God!"? Certainly not!

* "Hear O Ysryl: Yahweh our Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah,Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex.20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] is O-N-E [echad] Yahweh" (Deut. 6:4).

If ONE Yahweh really equals TWO [Yahwehs], as some believe, then Deut. 6:4 should read as follows:

'Hear O Ysryl: Yahweh our Almighty One [{"God,Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] are shenayim [TWO] Yahwehs.'

But it doesn't. There are no verses in Scripture that reads this way, nor is this the meaning of the Shema (Deut. 6:4).

** Yahweh, Who spoke to the prophets, is not acquainted with any other Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut.4:35,39] [Isayah 44:8]. This is Yahweh's personal report.

* Yahweh is the only Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut.4:35,39] . There is no other (Isayah 45:18,22). Yahweh's personal report.

* Beside Me[Yahweh], there is no Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One,El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen.2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] (Isayah 44:6, 45:21). Yahweh's personal report.

** "... that you might know that Yahweh is the Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex.20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]; there is no other besides HIM" (Deut. 4:35). This is Yahweh's personal report; the same Yahweh Who spoke to the prophets of old, who also reported this truth.

* There is one(and only one) lone Yahweh (Nehemyah 9:6; 2 Sam. 19:15,19; Ps. 83:18,86:9-10; Isayah 37:16,19).


** No Almighty One was formed, therefore none existed before Yahweh, the Almighty One[{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] of Abraham. This was the Almighty One Who communicated with the ancient prophets.

** Webmaster's Note: This is Father Yahweh the Almighty One [{"God,Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] Who communicated or spoke to the ancient prophets of old and not His son Yahshua. Father Yahweh only spoke to His son Yahshua in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. The prophets of old were the spokesmen of Father Yahweh word before Yahshua came into existence in this last time period. It was then that His son Yahshua became the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word.

* "I am Yahweh, that is My Name; My esteem ["glory"] I give to no other, ..." (Isayah 2:8, 44:11). Here, Yahweh's esteem["glory"] is indicated by His Name apparently. He gives neither His Name (in whole) or His esteem ["glory"] to another. His son's name was not Yahweh, but Yahshua, meaning "Yahweh's Redemption" or "Yahweh is Redeemer." Therefore, there is no other Yahweh. Yahweh's personal report.

* Yahweh (the Mighty One of Ysryl and the prophets) was the first Almighty One[{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] to exist. He was also the last to come into existence (Isayah 44:6, 48:12). None has come into existence after Him. All others are fake (Isayah 46:9). Yahweh's personal report.

Conclusion

My friends are mutilating the languages (Hebrew, Greek and English) by saying o-n-e really means TWO, or in some cases, more than TWO. Question: If o-n-e really means t-w-o, what does TWO mean?

Brethren, there are more than 100 Scriptures that reveal that Yahweh is the Creator. Many Scriptures reveal there is only O-N-E Yahweh and O-N-E true Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex.20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]. The whole of Scripture is based on this one over-riding premise. The nations (Heb. goyim - gentiles, heathens, strangers, outsiders, etc.) honor many almighty ones "[Heb. - el, eloah, elohim,or English - god, gods or deities]; but as for me and my house,we will honor only ONE Almighty One [{"God, Deity"} Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim - Yahweh,Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]: Yahweh. This one Yahweh is not a Twinity[Duality] or a Trinity ["Triune God"]. HE is ONE; the only Yahweh Who exists, as the Scriptures indicate:

"You believe there is one Yahweh; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (Yaaqob [James} 2:19).

The view that echad makes two Yahwehs out of ONE can be laid to rest for all time, as this view does not stand the test.

SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/760517095/echad

"Then Elohim said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'" (Gen. 1:26, RSV).

Monotheism means one. Any person who believes in the Trinity or the Duality cannot properly claim to believe in Monotheism. The reason being, Trinity means three, Duality means two, while Monotheism means one - One theos, or One Elohim, not two, three, or a dozen. Of course,, Trinitarians and Dualists will heartily disagree, but this is fact. This is Truth. Monotheism means ONE. Perhaps a better term is Mono-el-ism; ONE EL.

Let Us

Because the words us and our appear in Genesis 1:26, "Let us make man in our images and our likeness, Trinitarians say, "Ah ha! This proves the Trinity." But surprise: Dualist say, "Ah ha! This proves the Duality of Yahweh." Isn't this amazing? It seems we have a choice. Based on these two little words, we can believe in the Trinity, or we can believe in Duality, all the while referring to these as Monotheism. Amazing!

After this astonishing revelation, let us now look at Genesis 1:27:

"So Elohim created man in HIS own image, in the image of Elohim HE created him; male and female HE created them."

Comparison

Genesis 1:26 contains three plural pronouns. Genesis 1:27 contains three singular pronouns. All refer to the same person - the Creator. If Trinitarians and Dualists can ignore verse 27 with its singular pronouns, perhaps I should have the privilege of ignoring verse 26 with its plural pronouns. I speak lightly, of course, to encourage thought and study. My preference is, none of us should ignore Biblical Scripture as originally given.

Image and Likeness

Have you noticed? Image and likeness are not plural words, but singular; in Hebrew as well as English. Dr. Bullinger pointed this out, even though he was a Trinitarian. Elohim made man in the image of Elohim, not images of Elohim. This indicates the image (singular) of one person, not two or three persons. The same is true of likeness. The word is singular.

A Translator's Footnote (Gen. 1:26)

RSV Harper Study Bible, notes by Harold Lindsell.
"Let us make man. Many interpret us to mean the Trinity, ... but probably early readers understood the word as the plural of majesty, just as the plural Elohim (Hebrew) is used of God to denote his majesty and attributes. Another possible interpretation is the picture of God consulting with his angelic court, the host of heaven (1 Kings 22:19), or the sons of God (Job 1:6)." (Emphasis added).

It is interesting to note that Harold Lindsell believed in the Trinity, indicated by his note on Mt. 28:19, nevertheless he realized Gen. 1:26 does not promote the Trinity. He spoke of "early readers" who understood the word as the plural of majesty. "Early readers" would be the Saints of antiquity and the disciples of the first century C.E. who had no knowledge of Duality or Trinity (See The Christian Doctrine of God, Vol. 1, by the noted Theologian, Emil Brunner, pages 205-237; published by Westminister Press, Philadelphia, 1946).

The Reference: 1st Kings 22:19

When we consult the reference given by Mr. Lindsell (2 Kings 22:19), we see that his point is certainly worth considering:

"And Micaiah said, 'Therefore hear the word of Yahweh: I saw Yahweh sitting on his throne, and all of the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; and Yahweh said,

"'Who will entice Ahab that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-Gilead?' And one said one thing and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before Yahweh, saying, 'I will entice him.' And Yahweh said to him, 'By what means?'

"'I will go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all of his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go forth and do so.'

"Now therefore behold, Yahweh has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; Yahweh has spoken evil concerning you" (1 Kings 22:19-22, RSV).

We see that Yahweh consulted with his celestial court on this occasion. He may have done the same in the beginning (Gen. 1:26). His celestial court consisted of the following:

(1) Yahweh
(2) The angels. Note Yahshua was never an angel (Heb. 1:5,13).
(3) The living creatures (the living beasts); that is, the Cherubim.
(4) No one else was present, apparently.

Footnote, Genesis 1:26

New English Bible
"The plural us (Gen. 3:22; 11:7) may be a majestic plural, or else refer to minor divine beings thought to surround God, like the courtiers of a human king (1 Kings 22:19-22)."

Only One Yahweh & Only One True El

Since there is only one Yahweh and only one true El (Deut. 6:4; Neh. 9:6; John 17:3), this confirms Yahshua was not present in the beginning (1) as the Creator, or (2) as a second Yahweh (Gen. 1:26); nor was he present in the days of Ahab (1 Kings 22:19).

"To you it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh is Elohim; there is no other besides HIM. ... know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that Yahweh is Elohim in heaven above and on earth beneath; there is no other" (Deut. 4:35,39, RSV).

Deut. 6:4

Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim is ONE Yahweh, ..." (Deut. 6:4).

One is translated from the Hebrew word echad, equal in every respect to the English word, one. Echad is a cardinal number, meaning one as in one, two, three, etc. A cardinal number establishes how many, whereas an ordinal number establishes a place in a sequence, such as first, second, third, etc. Yahweh is not first among several. Instead, he is the ONE true El; the ONLY Yahweh who exist (2 Sam. 22:32; Ps. 83:18; Isa. 43:10; 44:6; 45:5,6,21,22; Mark 12:28-32; Luke 18:19; Rev. 15:4).

There are more than sixty Scriptures which declare there is one Yahweh; one true Elohim so, is it rational to ignore 60 Scriptures in preference to three little words in Genesis 1:26?

Conclusion

Since there are more than sixty Scriptures which declare there is one Yahweh, the evidence indicates we must accept the three plural pronouns in Genesis 1:26 as Mr. Lindsell suggested:

(1) As the plural of majesty, not as a plurality of persons; a plurality of Deities, or

(2) Accept the view that the only Yahweh who exists consulted with his Angelic Court, as illustrated in 2 Kings 22:19.

Scriptures do not support the doctrine of the Trinity, neither do they support the doctrine of Duality of Deities. Scriptures teach Monotheism; One Yahweh - One true El.

"You believe that Yahweh is one; you do well; the demons believe also, and tremble" (James 2:19).

Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/758082821/let-us-make-man-in-our-image

Image123: ^
i see you are both insinuating that the great Yahweh is not Lord, but that Jesus is Lord. thanks for trying to confuse us all.
one Lord Jesus Christ

Both FATHER Yahweh and His SON are referred to in Scripture translation as "Lord" or "Master." The words "the LORD" with 'LORD" being in all caps has been substituted for our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name by the copyist (scribes) and in turn the translators who followed in their erroneous tradition. This is not true when the word "Lord" is referenced to His son Yahshua. This title "Lord" or "Master" in reference to His son is simply in reference to the power (authority) that was GIVEN to him in both heaven and earth by his and our Father Yahweh Who made him "Lord" or "Master":

Then Yahshua came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me (Mattithyah [Matthew] 28:18).

Father Yahweh made His son Yahshua is his image:

The son is the image of the invisible Yahweh, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15).

Father Yahweh has made His son Yahshua "Lord" or "Master":

Therefore let all Ysryl be assured of this: Yahweh has made this Yahshua, whom you executed, both Master and Messiah (Acts 2:36).

*:
Did Jesus ever refer to yahweh as his Father at any time?

When Yahshua was HERE ON EARTH (or 'IN THE WORLD') he instructed his disciples (students) how to commune ["pray"] to Father Yahweh Who IS IN HEAVEN:

"This, then, is how you should commune: "'OUR Father IN HEAVEN, set apart be Your Name, ... (Mattithyah [Matthew] 6:9).

Note that Yahshua said "OUR FATHER" which is quite clear that he included himself as being His SON. Yahshua is recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as frequently giving reference to Yahweh our Heavenly Creator as his "Father". FATHER Yahweh is also recorded in this same section of Scripture as referring to Yahshua as His SON:

At that time you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you (Yahchanan [John] 14:21).

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them (Yahchanan [John] 14:21).

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you (Yahchanan [John] 14:2).

For unto which of the malakim said He at any time, You are My son, at this time have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a son? (Hebrews 1:5; cf. 2 Samuyl 7:14).

There are those who erroneously say and teach "YHVH is not the Father God, but represents the whole Godhead." - ( http://www.northernway.org/fathergod.html )

Bidam: The Bible clearly states that there is only one God. Deuteronomy 6:4 states, “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.” Isaiah 44:6 states, “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me.” Clearly, these verses reveal that there is only one God. Yet, there are three separate persons in the Bible who are called God and have the characteristics only God can have. The Trinity is a difficult concept to grasp, because we are finite beings trying to explain an infinite God who is beyond our understanding.

You said: "The Trinity is a difficult concept to grasp, because we are finite beings trying to explain an infinite God who is beyond our understanding."

If what you say is true that Yahweh is beyond our understanding, then why do you Trinitarians contiunue to understand Him as "Trinity [Triune]" when Scripture clearly says that he is ONE, not THREE? Not only is the so-called "Holy Trinity" doctrine difficult to grasp, but it is also confusing and Father Yahweh is not the author of confusion. Since Scripture clearly teaches that Father Yahweh is not the author of confusion, then Satan must be the author of confusion! I can only conclude that the so-called "Holy Trinty" doctrine is a mere doctrine of men and of demons and most certainly not a doctrine found in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for repoof and correction and instruction in righteousness. Yes Scripture does clearly teach that there is only but ONE Yahweh, but it does not teach " ... there are three separate persons ... who are called God ..." There are in fact people who are given reference to as "God" in Scripture translation. The fact is, there are even inanimate objects that are given reference to as "God."

The Hebrew word elohim, even though a plural, is in most places treated as a singular when referring to the one and only Yahweh, indicated by singular pronouns which accompany Elohim; I, me, mine, he, him, his, etc. Sometimes elohim appears in Scriptures even when referring to one pagan god (idol). This is made clear in Exodus chapter 32.

The Israelites said to Aaron, "Up, make us gods which shall go before us, ..." Ex. 32:1, KJV). So Aaron fashioned a golden calf and the Israelites said, ""These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt!" (Ex. 32:4,8, KJV).

Gods [Ex. 32:1,4,8] comes from the word elohim, of course, If read only casually, these verses would seem to indicate more than one god, or idol, had been made. But notice the remaining words in this bit of history:

0 Aaron fashioned it (the elohim) with a tool (Ex. 32:4).

0 Aaron built an altar for it {not them} (Ex. 32:5).

0 For they have made a molten calf {only one calf} [Ex. 32:8].

0 And have worshiped it [singular, Ex. 32:8].

0 Moses entered the camp and saw the calf (only one calf, Ex. 32:19).

0 Moses destroyed the calf (singular, not calves, plural, Ex. 32:20).

0 There came out this calf (singular, Ex. 32:24).

0 Yahweh plagued the people because they made the calf (singular, Ex. 32:35).

0 Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, "This is thy god [elohim] that brought thee up out

of Egypt ..." (Neh. 9:18.
0 They made a calf [only one calf] in Horeb, and worshiped the molten image" (only one image, Ps. 106:19).

0 They made a calf (only one calf) in those days (Acts 7:41).

Several times the word elohim appears in these verses, More than a dozen times, words are employed which indicate clearly that elohim can be used as singular as well as a plural. This also come through clearly in another quotation from Moses, as follows:

"And I looked, and, behold, ye ... had made you a molten calf: ... And I took your sin, the molten calf which ye made, and burnt it with fire, and stamped it, and ground it very small, until it was small as dust ..." (Duet. 9:12,16,21).

Only one god (elohim), and only one calf; the golden calf.

Note: The word "these" in the phrase, "these be thy gods" [Ex. 32:4,8], can also be translated "this," as indicated in Neh. 9:18, and in Strong's Concordance. Obviously, Ex. 32:4 should have been translated, "This is the god who brought you up out of the land of Egypt." On another occasion, a single calf (one calf) was referred to as elohim:

"I have spurned your calf O Samaria. ... A workman made it; it *is not god [elohim]. The calf of Samaria shall be broken to pieces" (Hosea 8:5,6).

* Webmaster's Note: The word "god [elohim]" in the above verse is not in reference to Yahweh as "Elohim", but is in reference to an idol god [elohim] with no power, strength or might and can also be translated as follows:

"... A workman made it; it has no power [strength, might] whatsoever."

End Webmaster's Note

Moses An Elohim To Aaron And Pharaoh

But Moses said to Yahweh, Oh my Yahweh, I am not eloquent, ... Then ... Yahweh ... said, "Is there not Aaron your brother, the Levite? ... He shall speak for you to the people; and he shall be a mouth for you, and you [Moses] shall be to him as *god [elohim]" (Ex. 4:10-16).

And Yahweh said to Moses, "See, I make you as *god [elohim] to Pharaoh; ..." (Ex. 7:1).

* Webmaster's Note: The above two verses can also be translated in the following manner:

"... and you [Moshe] shall be to him as *one with power [authority]" (Ex. 4:10-16).

... "See, I make you as *one with power [authority] to Pharaoh; ... (Ex. 7:1).

Moshe as a spokesman for Yahweh communicated to Aaron what Yahweh had communicated to him. Aaron in turn acted as a spokesman for Moshe in communicating to Pharaoh what Yahweh had said to Moshe, since Aaron was more eloquent in speaking than Moshe. Yahshua was a prophet like unto Moshe. In fact, Yahshua is like unto Moshe in many other ways. Moshe was a spokesman of Yahweh's word just as Yahshua is a spokesman of Yahweh's word in this last time period. Aaron in turn was also a spokesman for Moshe. Yahshua was and is A MAN like unto Moshe. Yahshua was also *one with power [authority] just as Moshe was. Just as Moshe did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being, Yahshua also did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.

End Webmaster's Note

From these Scriptures we see that Moses became an elohim to Pharaoh and to his brother Aaron. Question: What was the numerical value of Moses? Did he consist of one, two or three persons? All must agree; there was only one Moses. Nevertheless, the ONE man, Moses, was elohim (plural, indicating authority and majesty). Again, there was only one Moses, not two or three.

Chemosh An Elohim

"Will you not possess what Chemosh your elohim gives you to possess?" (Judges 11:24).

Chemosh (singular) was an elohim.

Dagon An Elohim

The second time Dagon fell over, his head and hands were broken off, putting fear into the Philistines (1 Sam. 5:1-6). Notice in the next verse the use of the word elohim (plural), even though there was only one statue. The men of Ashdod said,

"The ark of Elohim must not remain with us; for his hand is heavy upon us, and upon Dagon our elohim" (1 Sam. 5:7, RSV).

Ashtoreth, Chemosh & Milcom

"... because he [Israel] has forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess [elohim] of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god (elohim), of Moab, and Milcom the god [elohim] of the Ammorites, and have not walked in My ways ..." (1 Kings 11:33).
Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/761316151/elohim-one-or-more-than-one/

IN THE MAJORITY OF CASES, ELOHIM EQUALS ONLY ONE

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
Eerdman's Publishing Company, Volume Two, 1984, Page 1254

"One of the oldest and most widely distributed terms for deity known to the human race is el, with its derivations 'Elim, 'Elohim, and Eloah. Like theos, Deus and God, it is a generic term, including every member of the class deity. It may even denote a position of honor and authority among men. ... It is, therefore, a general term expressing majesty and authority, ... By far the most frequent form used by O. T. writers is the plural, 'Elohim, but they use it regularly with singular verbs and adjectives to denote a singular idea. Several explanations have been offered of this usage of a plural term to denote a singular idea - it expresses the fullness and manifoldness of the divine nature, or that it is a plural of majesty used in the manner of royal persons, ...".

The New Bible Dictionary
Eerdman's Publishing Company, 1979, Page 478

"Elohim: Though a plural form, Elohim can be treated as a singular, in which case it means the one supreme deity, ..."

Theological Word Book of the Old Testament
By Harris, Archer & Waltke, Volume One, 1980, page 44

"'Elohim. God gods, judges, angels. ... This word, which is generally viewed as the plural of eloah,' is found more frequently in Scripture than either 'el' or 'eloah' for the true God. The plural ending is usually described as a plural of majesty and not intended as a true plural of God. This is seen in the fact that the noun 'elohim' is consistently used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular."
Footnote in the Emphasized Bible - Genesis 1:1

By J. B. Rotherham, 1897

"Hebrew: 'elohim. "Probably a plural of quality = 'God-head, ' as our 'Lordship' = Lord (Davies, H.L.. p 9). It should be carefully observed, that although 'elohim is plural in form, yet when, as here, it is construed with a verb in the singular, it is naturally singular in sense, especially since the 'plural of quality' or 'excellence' abounds in Hebrew in cases where the reference is undeniably to something that which must be understood in the singular number."
The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary

Zondervan Publishing House, 1982, Page 248

"Elohim, the most frequent Hebrew word for God (over 2,500 times in the O. T.). Elohim is plural in form, but is singular in construction (used with singular verbs and adjectives). When applied to the one true God, the plural is due to the Hebrew idiom of a plural of magnitude or majesty."

In the majority of cases, the word elohim is used in Scriptures as a singular term. There is only ONE (one) Yahweh, not two, three, or a dozen. There is no Trinity. There is no Twinity. There is no duality. Instead, there is only ONE and only one true Deity. That one true Deity is Yahweh, just as Yahshua reported:

And one of the scribes ... asked him, "What commandment is first of all?" Yahshua answered, "The first is, "Here O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim, Yahweh is ONE; ..." (Mark 12:28-30; quoted from Deut. 6:4).

From these Scriptures we see that it is not optional. We are commanded to believe that Yahweh is ONE (O-N-E), not two or three.

"And this is eternal life, that we know thee the only true El, and Yahshua Messiah whom thou has sent" (John 17:3).

Scriptures reveal that elohim can be correctly used in referring to one, or to more than one object or person. Since many Scriptures proclaim there is only one Yahweh, then we can be sure the phrase, Yahweh the Elohim of Israel" refers to only one person, one being, one El, one Deity. There is no other (Neh. 9:6; Isa. 43:10-13; 44:6; 45:18,22; John 17:3).

"To you [Israel] it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh is Elohim; there is no other besides him [not them or us]. Out of heaven he let you here his voice ... know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that Yahweh is Elohim in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other" (Deut. 4:35-39, RSV).

The Books of Deuteronomy and Psalms confirm that the title Elohim is sometimes used as a singular noun:

"For Yahweh your God (El) is God (Elohim) of gods (elohim) and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God (El), ..." (Deut. 10:17, RSV).

"Oh give thanks to the God (Elohim) of gods (elohim), for his steadfast love endures forever" (Ps. 136:2, RSV).

The one Yahweh is the Elohim (singular) of elohim (plural); the GOD of gods. Te ONE Yahweh, this ONE Elohim, is referred to 36 times throughout Psalm 136 by singular pronouns; HE, HIS, and HIM, indicating one person.

We see then, elohim, even thou technically a plural, often refers to the ONE Yahweh, the ONE true El.

Conclusion

The evidence is conclusive: The word elohim is sometimes singular. This is certainly true when referring to Yahweh (Deut. 6:4,5; Mark 12:28-30). There is only ONE (one) Yahweh, not two, three, or a dozen.
Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/761316151/elohim-one-or-more-than-one

"Most people in this world do not realize the importance of understanding and believing exactly what YEHOVAH God says about the Messiah's beginning. To believe in a different kind of savior than the one YEHOVAH chose, is just as detrimental to our salvation as believing in a savior OTHER than Yeshua the Messiah! The fact is, Yeshua's beginning was the same "beginning" all twelve of his disciples experienced -- begotten by a human father and conceived by a human mother!

One of the most commonly used verses for the defense of the Marilolaters' virgin-birth belief is Luke 3:23. They make the claim that this verse refers to Joseph's genealogy through another line, which is a totally incorrect self-interpretation, a deliberate distortion, or they are ignorant of what the scriptures say about the Messiah's father, Joseph. We need to first review who Yeshua the Messiah really is -- not in relation to his ministry but in regard to his ancestry."
SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/773295646/virgin-birth