You should look for some chilled drink now and sleep. It helps the brain:

awesomeJ:


I know @streetinvestor may want to ignore you, so hear this:

You really need to relax.
It's obvious you're quite immature, that's not something you should be proud of, just wait, hopefully you'll outgrow it.


The fact is foreign investors hold naira assets. You can Google what terms like FPI and hot money mean, instead of coming here to rant out your frustration. Goldman Sachs holds Nigerian assets. It's common knowledge that CBN has liabilities to them.


Earlier this year, we had a lot of inflows from FPIs, that at some point, they brought in as much as $1.5bn in a week. I remember FMDQ trading over $800m in a single day.

These kinds of facts are what you've been told to look up and stop acting all frustrated.

Perhaps you've lost money holding naira, and you're choosing to vent out your frustration on anyone that makes any pro naira analysis, well it's just inexperience that's worrying you.

This year, there's been a day I lost 5% in the stock market, but also there was a single day I made 25%. In Just one day.

Your approach should be to seek more knowledge and grow more sense rather than acting like you lost your rent betting on naira.

Instead of thinking you are smarter than me or that I am immature because you assume that anyone that goes against you is, maybe you should learn to have an open mind to opposing views.

FYI, I am not making an argument for or against Tbills vs USD. My response to that clown was to show that the wealthy are more interested in preserving their wealth vs making returns. And the wealthy have most of their wealth outside Nigeria.

My focus has been on the 30% yielding T bills. As you have claimed that Goldman Sachs and Middle East investors will troop in and crash the price of the Naira to 1,200. So why didn’t the Naira value increase in that auction that they brought 500m dollars abi 1.5 billion dollars according to you? If there was so much interest by foreign investors, why have yields continue to increase? Abi you think say na beer parlour drunks you dey follow talk?

awesomeJ:
You should look for some chilled drink now and sleep. It helps the brain:

Oga, you are trying too hard to be smart. And you are being economical with the truth all because you want to appear right. What you are not saying is that the article was from last year for CBN’s 2022 financials. And you haven’t said what the money was for. It clearly was not investment in T bills. These firms lent money to CBN and CBN used its fx reserves as security. Na wa for you o.

From his speech alone, all I can see and hear is "taking Naira to N10,000 to $1 is a task that must be done asap" screaming/echoing.

awesomeJ:
..

Foreign investors are rushing to invest in T bills yet yields keep increasing and the Naira refuses to appreciate. Na so…

Oshokhai69:


Instead of thinking you are smarter than me or that I am immature because you assume that anyone that goes against you is, maybe you should learn to have an open mind to opposing views.

FYI, I am not making an argument for or against Tbills vs USD. My response to that clown was to show that the wealthy are more interested in preserving their wealth vs making returns. And the wealthy have most of their wealth outside Nigeria.

My focus has been on the 30% yielding T bills. As you have claimed that Goldman Sachs and Middle East investors will troop in and crash the price of the Naira to 1,200. So why didn’t the Naira value increase in that auction that they brought 500m dollars abi 1.5 billion dollars according to you? If there was so much interest by foreign investors, why have yields continue to increase? Abi you think say na beer parlour drunks you dey follow talk?

I do have an open mind. However open mind doesn't imply agreeing with incoherent arguments. Make valid arguments if you want people to open their minds to your opinions.

Were you living under a rock when USD crashed from 1900 to 1000/1100 between February and April.

Wasn't it common knowledge that the crash happened largely cos of the increased inflows.

You just seem to have the impulse to always make an argument even if they contradict obvious facts.

Oshokhai69:


Oga, you are trying too hard to be smart. And you are being economical with the truth all because you want to appear right. What you are not saying is that the article was from last year for CBN’s 2022 financials. And you haven’t said what the money was for. It clearly was not investment in T bills. These firms lent money to CBN and CBN used its fx reserves as security. Na wa for you o.

First the article is from this year.
When GS took the position is not the point.
They could have taken the position in 2022 or earlier, they could have closed the position or still have it open, none of those are the points


The point is that you said erroneously that GS would never hold risky nigerian assets.

I have enlightened your ignorance, you should be reasonable enough to take the education.

Oshokhai69:


Go and ask real business people invested in the real sector what their experience has been in the past at least 5 years since the Naira started deteriorating. Their businesses are struggling big time. These are people that have to import raw materials, equipment, pay USD loans but are making their money in Naira.

Insiders know the real struggle of these business people and you will begin to see the effects on the profits and stock prices of these companies very shortly. Do you think Dangote Industries is smiling? Did you see what happened to the stock price yesterday? You think that was a joke? Wait until more results come out.

FYI, the wealthiest Nigerians keep most of their savings outside of Nigeria. And they are not doing this for returns. They are doing this to preserve their wealth. Do you know how much wealth people lost by keeping their wealth in Naira in the last 5 to 7 years? Wealthy Nigerians are now wiser.

You are talking about speculating in the stock market? If I check now, you won’t have more than 100k Naira. Mtchewwee!

I would like you to put you mouth whr your mouth is.I know I can feed your generation. I have been in the stock market for over 20yr.My investment alone in ucap is big enough at .90kobo then.That said. Let show our strength in real money value.A bet can be arranged with a third party as holding agent. I stand that dollars will not do #2000 in the next 1 yr unless the country goes on civil unrest. I believe you can do 5Million on that.Let put our money into action or you get out from my mention

And for Dan cement dip is a normal thing in stock market. You this clown,I once bought the same stock for 145 and sold for close to #300.Do you equally know that ucap has moved from #25 to 40 Naira in less than 3 months. And dangota cement increased her div by 50% last Yr from #20 to#30 And you expect the result bad this yr with the price of cement doubling. How old are you really in investment things or you just get change from Yahoo to buy few dollars and data

awesomeJ:


First the article is from this year.
When GS took the position is not the point.
They could have taken the position in 2022 or earlier, they could have closed the position or still have it open, none of those are the points


The point is that you said erroneously that GS would never hold risky nigerian assets.

I have enlightened your ignorance, you should be reasonable enough to take the education.

Guy, is 12 months ago this year? And do you not clearly see that it is for 2022 financial year results of CBN?

Is there any position as riskless as lending money to a Central Bank and taking investment grade fx denominated securities from its forex reserves as collateral? What’s wrong with you? You must argue about everything. Even when you are clearly wrong.
As I said before, it must be very difficult dealing with you in real life. Walahi I throwey salute for your wife.

Streetinvestor2:
I would like you to put you mouth whr your mouth is.I know I can feed your generation. I have been in the stock market for over 20yr.My investment alone in ucap is big enough at .90kobo then.That said. Let show our strength in real money value.A bet can be arranged with a third party as holding agent. I stand that dollars will not do #2000 in the next 1 yr unless the country goes on civil unrest. I believe you can do 5Million on that.Let put our money into action or you get out from my mention

Feed my generation? 😂. Some of you here have no idea the people you are talking to sha. Please use that 5 million to feed your kids. Don’t bet with your life savings please. That’s if you have ever seen 5 million sef.

Oshokhai69:


Feed my generation? 😂. Some of you here have no idea the people you are talking to sha. Please use that 5 million to feed your kids. Don’t bet with your life savings please. That’s if you have ever seen 5 million sef.

.Guy put your money whr your mouth is..lol.To speak English is free.I will not respond again to you if you are not game.I don't like someone being poor and a witch at the same time.That means you can't offer anything to my type

5Million that can't not even buy direct 203 corolla now.Guy make sure you dey front for this protest before hunger finishes u

awesomeJ:


I do have an open mind. However open mind doesn't imply agreeing with incoherent arguments. Make valid arguments if you want people to open their minds to your opinions.

Were you living under a rock when USD crashed from 1900 to 1000/1100 between February and April.

Wasn't it common knowledge that the crash happened largely cos of the increased inflows.

You just seem to have the impulse to always make an argument even if they contradict obvious facts.

Please shut it. You have no idea why rates fell. Go and ask insiders. They will tell you. I will give you a clue. It wasn’t just the Naira that appreciated that period. The Kenyan Shillings that was equally being battered like the Naira suddenly appreciated at the same time. You call that a co-incidence?

Oshokhai69:


Guy, is 12 months ago this year? And do you not clearly see that it is for 2022 financial year results of CBN?

Is there any position as riskless as lending money to a Central Bank and taking fx securities from its forex reserves sitting in offshore accounts as collateral? What’s wrong with you? You must argue about everything. Even when you are clearly wrong.
As I said before, it must be very difficult dealing with you in real life. Walahi I throwey salute for your wife.

You don't seem to understand how balance sheets work.

I'm aware the position is recorded in the 2022 statements.

But that doesn't mean GS entered or exited in 2022.

Now, why you're bringing time of investment isn't quite logical.

Did you say "GS would never hold Nigerian assets in 2024"?

Didn't you actually say:

"GS would never hold assets as risky as Nigeria's"

Maybe you have a problem remembering your own statements, go back and check.

Your point about the lending being securitized with the reserves makes sense, but this one about 2022 or no 2022 is void of logic based on the premise of your argument.


Now, I understand that GS doing a securitized lending isn't as risky as holding Nigerian debts directly. The point there is if they would do lending to a country, holding the country's debt isn't impossible as you're making it seem.
Same reserves that we're used as security can also be drawn on to settle debt.

Check the position of GS asset management, you will find that they indeed have open positions on African sovereign debt instruments.

The details of the specific countries in their portfolio isn't public, but it's quite likely the have FGN instruments.

Oshokhai69:


Please shut it. You have no idea why rates fell. Go and ask insiders. They will tell you. I will give you a clue. It wasn’t just the Naira that appreciated that period. The Kenyan Shillings that was equally being battered like the Naira suddenly appreciated at the same time. You call that a co-incidence?

Ask the insiders, then tell us.
Cos it seems making stupid statements is sort of a hobby you nurse.

Streetinvestor2:
I would like you to put you mouth whr your mouth is.I know I can feed your generation. I have been in the stock market for over 20yr.My investment alone in ucap is big enough at .90kobo then.That said. Let show our strength in real money value.A bet can be arranged with a third party as holding agent. I stand that dollars will not do #2000 in the next 1 yr unless the country goes on civil unrest. I believe you can do 5Million on that.Let put our money into action or you get out from my mention

And for Dan cement dip is a normal thing in stock market. You this clown,I once bought the same stock for 145 and sold for close to #300.Do you equally know that ucap has moved from #25 to 40 Naira in less than 3 months. And dangota cement increased her div by 50% last Yr from #20 to#30 And you expect the result bad this yr with the price of cement doubling. How old are you really in investment things or you just get change from Yahoo to buy few dollars and data

The guy has incomplete knowledge, the ridiculousness of that is what we're seeing.

DANGCEM that has been doing 591 on full offer since April. The ignoramus assumes the crash happened just yesterday.

It's been trading as that same price for almost 4 months, yesterday just happened to be the first time a single trade with over 100k volume happened. That single trade being about 60m is why the crash tarried.

Over 90% of tickers on the NGX would have their prices change with just 5m trade.
DANGCEM needs 60m,
SEPLAT would need about 400m.

@that guy, I hope you've learnt something.

awesomeJ:


You don't seem to understand how balance sheets work.

I'm aware the position is recorded in the 2022 statements.

But that doesn't mean GS entered or exited in 2022.

Now, why you're bringing time of investment isn't quite logical.

Did you say "GS would never hold Nigerian assets in 2024"?

Didn't you actually say:

"GS would never hold assets as risky as Nigeria's"

Maybe you have a problem remembering your own statements, go back and check.

Your point about the lending being securitized with the reserves makes sense, but this one about 2022 or no 2022 is void of logic based on the premise of your argument.


Now, I understand that GS doing a securitized lending isn't as risky as holding Nigerian debts directly. The point there is if they would do lending to a country, holding the country's debt isn't impossible as you're making it seem.
Same reserves that we're used as security can also be drawn on to settle debt.

Check the position of GS asset management, you will find that they indeed have open positions on African sovereign debt instruments.

The details of the specific countries in their portfolio isn't public, but it's quite likely the have FGN instruments.

You continue to make stupid arguments instead of just giving up cos you always want to be right. What a narcissist.

The date is important because it has nothing to do with 2024 that we have been talking about. Don’t dig up an old article to buttress a point you claimed happened this year. In any case, how do you call it taking a risky position when you lend to a Central bank and take fx denominated assets as collateral?

To break it down for you, If you went to a bank to borrow money and they tell you they will only lend you money if you can give them investment grade USD securities as collateral, do you actually believe that bank has taken a risk on you? Guy, I have never seen anyone like you that can continue to argue even when presented with facts. Na real wa for you!

Oshokhai69:


You continue to make stupid arguments instead of just giving up cos you always want to be right. What a narcissist.

The date is important because it has nothing to do with 2024 that we have been talking about. Don’t dig up an old article to buttress a point you claimed happened this year. In any case, how do you call it taking a risky position when you lend to a Central bank and take fx denominated assets as collateral?

To break it down for you, If you went to a bank to borrow money and they tell you they will only lend you money if you can give them investment grade USD securities as collateral, do you actually believe that bank has taken a risk on you? Guy, I have never seen anyone like you that can continue to argue even when presented with facts. Na real wa for you!

Thinking date has anything to do with your statement of "No smart folk would ever invest in Nigeria" is dumb. You not seeing that dumbness is a bigger problem.

Even if the investment happened in 1847, it still renders your assertion stupid.

Except of course you choose to modify the statement to specify a date.


Imagine a fellow idiot like yourself saying "A U.S president would never visit Nigeria"
Then you tell him, "But Clinton visited in 2000"
And the idiot responds to you saying, "That happened in 2000",

Can you imagine how you would rate his reasoning?

Well you would rate it high, cos it's exactly same as yours.

You will suffer a lot from such stupidity though, you won't be able to avoid making costly decisions, cos you're super dumb.

awesomeJ:


Thinking date has anything to do with your statement of "No smart folk would ever invest in Nigeria" is dumb. You not seeing that dumbness is a bigger problem.

Even if the investment happened in 1847, it still renders your assertion stupid.

Except of course you choose to modify the statement to specify a date.


Imagine a fellow idiot like yourself saying "A U.S president would never visit Nigeria"
Then you tell him, "But Clinton visited in 2000"
And the idiot responds to you saying, "That happened in 2000",

Can you imagine how you would rate his reasoning?

Well you would rate it high, cos it's exactly same as yours.

You will suffer a lot from such stupidity though, you won't be able to avoid making costly decisions, cos you're super dumb.

Please show me where I said ‘no smart folk can ever invest in Nigeria’. If you cannot, then shut up forever.

You know very well I was talking about foreign investors buying Naira at 1500 to invest in T bills at 30% now. You know it. But if your memory is that short, please go back and read all my comments which have been at the current situation of the economy.

See frustration all over your writing. Insulting me because I have called you out on false information you passed here without facts. Clearly, you are a very unhappy and angry person and I hope for your own sake that you don’t die of hypertension and high blood pressure. See as you dey para for person wey you no know. I just dey imagine as you go dey follow your wife talk. Poor woman.

This same person go come go church tomorrow and say he dey pray to God. Na wa o.

Oshokhai69:


Please show me where I said ‘no smart folk can never invest in Nigeria’. If you cannot, then shut up forever.

You know very well I was talking about buying Naira at 1500 to invest in T bills at 30%. You know it. But if you memory is that short, please go back and read all my comments which have been at the current situation of the economy.

See frustration all over your writing. Calling me idiot, stupid, and other insults because I have called you out on false information you passed here without facts.

Clearly you are a very unhappy and angry person and I hope for your own sake that you don’t die of hypertension. See as you dey para for person wey you no know. I just dey imagine as you go dey follow your wife talk. Poor woman.

This same person go come go church tomorrow and say he dey pray to God. Na wa o.

1. When I say you're dumb, I don't mean "dumb" in the conventional sense. I actually mean you're choosing to act silly. It would be a sin on my part to call any human being "dumb". But obviously you're choosing to misbehave, it's that choice that I choose to label as "dumb". In terms of actual intelligence, I prefer to think that you're either as smart or smarter than I am.

2. I would look for the statement(s) I refer to, perhaps I misunderstood.

3. I honestly can't know what you mean, I can only interprete whatever you write, the normal etiquette of conversations requires that you clarify when you're being misconstrued.

4. I never passed any false information here or anywhere else. Feel free to quote or paraphrase the said false information.

5. I think I am quite happy, and I share the joy too, so you shouldn't worry about me. When folks like you choose to use foul languages though, I try to put you in your place, cos it doesn't really matter where you learn morals, at home or on a faceless forum.

If you really are a troll, I suggest you consider stopping. If not and all these have been a misunderstanding, I apologize.

Oshokhai69:


And you think seasoned investors from top investment banks with first class research houses don’t know these things? Are you smarter than them? You will hold your USD but think they are rushing here to buy the T-Bills because of a hopeless 30% yield?

Here..

Oshokhai69:


Look at this one talking nonsense. I have intentionally ignored you before because honestly your post told me the kind of person you are. Not someone I would bother talking to in real life. But let me school you. The T bills are mainly being subscribed to by local institutional investors, mainly pension funds, with trillions of Naira that by regulation must be invested in Nigeria and not foreign investors that are bringing in dollars to subscribe to these bills.

I will school you again. Those sources you have listed do not show you who is investing. Please learn to keep your mouth shut when people are discussing things that you have no idea about. I bet that you have no idea why the rates are going as high as 30%. To someone like you, it is a good sign. Go and check what the yields on bonds and bills being issued by distressed countries are and ask your self why investors are instead fleeing and not investing.

Only a very foolish person thinks an investor sitting in London or New York with billions of dollars will jump on Nigerian T bills because of a 30% yield without looking at other macro factors that effectively eats up all the yield. Please go and learn how these things work so you can stop sounding dull!

Then here again..

awesomeJ:


Here..

Since you claim to be smart. Read what I wrote carefully and try to understand if I was talking about ‘ever’ or ‘now’. I know you know what I have been saying all along. But you think you can make me look stupid and you smart by exaggerating my points. Na real wa.

awesomeJ:


Some Goldman and even Middle East money may even flow in and help the currency.
If one buys 30% yield now and naira is at #1200 next year, the effective returns will be 71%.
meaning every $10,000 invested will become $17,100.

But I've gotta watch this school fees season demand first to better predict the market.

Here's the original post.
Read it again and ask yourself, does the post contain assertions or a hypothetical situation.

If you're smart enough to deduce, it's the latter,

Then ask yourself or your cousin that quoted the post first why you guys then got all worked up.

Oshokhai69:


Since you claim to be smart. Read what I write carefully and try to understand if I was talking about ever or now.

Fair enough.
I interpreted your post wrongly.

awesomeJ:


Then here again..

Please read the last paragraph…

Oshokhai69:


Since you claim to be smart. Read what I write carefully and try to understand if I was talking about ever or now. I know you know what I have been saying all along. But you think you can make me look stupid and you smart by exaggerating my points. Na real wa.

I would never want to make you look stupid, but if I assume you're a troll or you're being mischievous or you like using foul language, I will try to put you in your place.


If an asset promises 30% nominal yield, but has a potential to do 25% in exchange losses, certainly the computer models at those investment houses would label those assets as subprime, and so those investors wouldn't be motivated enough to come.
This is your point, and it 1000% correct.

However there are mischievous posts you've made that probably makes it hard to see your arguments as well intended:

1. First post I read from you was you saying I insulted someone, Whereas the said person, maybe your cousin, was the one who started the insults, why didn't you direct your opinion to him;
2. You did say at some point something about me not admitting I was wrong, when I had just made an apology on an erroneous statement I made, that was quite mischievous.
3. You're saying it wasn't fpi inflows that helped the naira recover in March/April when it quite an obvious fact.
4. And there were immature talks like: you don't have 100k, where I enter you can't enter blah blah blah...

Truth is when someone assumes you're a troll or a mischievous person, they'll read your posts in that light, that's what happened, you're super smart is the reality I desire.

Hello. TB guru in the house. I advised a friend to invest in TB. After so much persuasion, she invested N20,000,000 for 3 months @ 16.3%. When I did the calculation for her, I told her to expect interest of about N811k.

She just called me now that's she got 794k then they deducted like 79k for tax and 20k because it is a corporate account and other charges reducing it to like 690k. Please, how come? She did it with Zenith bank. Is it because she used a corporate acct?

I need an explanation.

squad1:
Hello. TB guru in the house. I advised a friend to invest in TB. After so much persuasion, she invested N20,000,000 for 3 months @ 16.3%. When I did the calculation for her, I told her to expect interest of about N811k.

She just called me now that's she got 794k then they deducted like 79k for tax and 20k because it is a corporate account and other charges reducing it to like 690k. Please, how come? She did it with Zenith bank. Is it because she used a corporate acct?

I need an explanation.

Here are some things I know:
1. Current accounts have what they call commission on Turnover. It could have other labels in different banks though. It's pegged at N1000 per mille. I stopped using my current account when I learnt about it. This is 2016 knowledge, there may be changes to it already. But as of 2016, most inflows/outflows on a current account have that whether it's money for Tbills or not.

2. The disparity in the 811k you calculated and the 794k she was given could be due to the tenor being something like 89 days if she bought from the secondary market.

3. I've been hearing of this WHT on TBills, so I decided to look it up, turns out the exemption expired in January 2022 and hasn't been renewed.

@aremso ^^^

squad1:
Hello. TB guru in the house. I advised a friend to invest in TB. After so much persuasion, she invested N20,000,000 for 3 months @ 16.3%. When I did the calculation for her, I told her to expect interest of about N811k.

She just called me now that's she got 794k then they deducted like 79k for tax and 20k because it is a corporate account and other charges reducing it to like 690k. Please, how come? She did it with Zenith bank. Is it because she used a corporate acct?

I need an explanation.

I also bidded with my zenith corporate and the charges were alarming. WHT was 10% of interest with their own bidding fees.
Next I bidded with gtb and they didn't charge WHT on interest but on charges and total charges including WHT wasn't up to 30k.

I dont know if it's because it was a corporate account that's why they charged so much but one thing I'm sure of is that I'd never bid with zenith again. Their total charges are to the roof

Meanwhile to change the subject from exchange rates and FPIs, the coupon payments for FGN bond 2026 & 2034 were paid/received on time Happy Days

squad1:
Hello. TB guru in the house. I advised a friend to invest in TB. After so much persuasion, she invested N20,000,000 for 3 months @ 16.3%. When I did the calculation for her, I told her to expect interest of about N811k.

She just called me now that's she got 794k then they deducted like 79k for tax and 20k because it is a corporate account and other charges reducing it to like 690k. Please, how come? She did it with Zenith bank. Is it because she used a corporate acct?

I need an explanation.

It's been a while I did any reasonable TB. The last one I did was through my bank app in the secondary market. The charges came unilaterally with no breakdown and the investment amount and charges were not much so I didn't stress my self to request for the breakdown.


Regarding your friends situation, the 79k seems to be 10% tax (WHT) on the interest of the TB. It still seems many people are yet to be aware that the exemption of WHT earlier enjoyed by TB's and CP's subscribers have expired. However, it doesn't seem to be reflecting in all banks charges. It seems some banks are deducting WHT while others are not (I stand to be corrected on this). I don't know why they should be difference in that aspect. It should be general. I only got to know this when some CP I subscribed was about to mature last year and they sent me forms to fill for deduction.

Also, she invested with a corporate account. Corporate accounts are usually current account that charges fees called Commission on Turnover (COT) on any money leaving that account to another account. It's now N1 per each N1,000, It used to be more initially but reduced to that during Sanusis' Regime as CBN governor. Incase of another day, you can only avoid that if the owner(s) of the corporate account operates a savings account with same name in that same bank and the accounts are linked. Then, you can transfer such money to the savings before use without COT charge. So, the 20k charge it's not a cost on the TB but on the type of account used. Even if she was to transfer money to you, they'll charge COT plus the transfer charge.

Another thing worth knowing is that, investment tenures are usually calculated with 365 but some investment firms are calculating this year with 366 because it is a leap. I don't know if Zenith is among anyway.

The usual TB fees as I know before this period were: FBN charges; custody fees of 0.1 per transaction, static transaction of N100 and 5% commission on transaction and custody fees. While Stanbic IBTC only charges static transaction fee of N315 and safe keeping /custody fee tha varies moderately according to the investment amount. So you should consider this charges too while considering the WHT and COT. If not that the upfront could be needed for other use before maturity, the best way to not to feel these charges is to roll over interest with the investment. That way, the little interest that would come out of the roll will take care of the charge and give you some balance.

I don't like Zenith Bank for TB's. If she had consulted banks widely, should would have gotten a better rate with the current rates and probably better charges (I don't know what they charge sha) but they are not TB friendly.

Finally, big money draw big charges. The higher the amount the the higher the charges, as the required percentage is same for all amounts. However they could be difference in some charges according to banks. Just ask her to go and get the proof/certificate of investment from the bank before you will know the actual calculations.