mzilakazi:


Your question is so stupid.

Your claim is so silly....so prove it !

mzilakazi:
Agaugust thinks if you fought in the bushwar you have to look somehow very different. There is nothing so special about bushwar for I know quite a lot of people, black, coloureds and whites who participated actively in that war and who are still serving actively in the force.

There are thousands of South African army men in service that never fought during bush war despite being in the force at that time, administrative staff are among such troops who sit at home, or you can prove that you deployed SADF accountants to COIN special combat operations 1,000 km away from home to fight Cuba?

Liar

agaugust:


There are thousands of South African army men in service that never fought during bush war despite being in the force at that time, administrative staff are among such troops who sit at home, or you can prove that you deployed SADF accountants to COIN special combat operations 1,000 km away from home to fight Cuba?

Liar

Dude I don't disagree with that, but there are as well thousands of personnel who fought in the bush war who are still within the ranks of SANDF including ANC former MK generals. Many of them took part the bush war while they were still youngsters with some as young as 17 years of age. The bushwar was brought to end in 1991.

mzilakazi:


Dude I don't disagree with that, but there are as well thousands of personnel who fought in the bush war who are still within the ranks of SANDF including ANC former MK generals. Many of them took part the bush war while they were still youngsters with some as young as 17 years of age. The bushwar was brought to end in 1991.

Show me proof of old SADF Bush war COIN experts currently in SANDF service today.....simple question, answer with proof
.

agaugust:


Show me proof of old SADF Bush war COIN experts currently in SANDF service today.....simple question, answer with proof
.

Since when are sergeant majors administrators? Surely you can see that with those ranks during the bush war era they were still either non-leader group or junior leaders and that will make them to take front ranks and be actively involved in the war. I have lost count of how many people I met in the force who took part in the bush war, both former MK members and former SADF members, the former enemies brushing shoulders together as now comrades in arms.

mzilakazi:


Since when are sergeant majors administrators? Surely you can see that with those ranks during the bush war era they were still either non-leader group or junior leaders and that will make them to take front ranks and be actively involved in the war. I have lost count of how many people I met in the force who took part in the bush war, both former MK members and former SADF members, the former enemies brushing shoulders together as now comrades in arms.

I need proof that those men in those photos fought COIN war operations in Angola. Any dummy can wear SANDF uniform, even white-men recruited 20 years ago after Bush war ended, will still appear in uniform despite never having fired a rifle in combat all their lives.

Prove to us that Eben Barlow's battlefield war veteran colleagues are still in SANDF today.

agaugust:


Don't waste your time, Algeria is far more powerful than South Africa, their defence budget is biggest in Africa and they focus on the best weapons from all over the world.

Algeria has 44 units of brand new Su-30 MKA Flanker jets with BVR missiles and 6 units of air to air refueling tanker aircraft, they are already evaluating an AWACS aircraft, Algeria is far beyond South Africa, they belong to the big league.

Dude I never said we had a more powerful defence force, I said we have a more modern defence force, go read my and your original posts regarding this topic. Also they only have 5 air to air refuelling tankers not 6.

iblawi:
why are you so blind? YOUR ARMY, AIRFORCE AND NAVY IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO ANY ARM OF ALGERIA MILITARY.

I said more modern not more powerful.

jl115:

I said more modern not more powerful.

Please what makes your military the most modern in this continent. I know your airforce is full of transport and training craft with only 25 fighters and 12 attack helicopters many of which are in long term storage.

agaugust:


1. Why does Nigeria need submarine or ASW helos if we have 0 sub-surface threat?

2.When war breaks out, your navy will fight with 4 ships sharing 13 Exocet missiles for 32 Exocet launchers? You don't manufacture anti-ship missiles or torpedos. You do not manufacture army tanks, you do not manufacture spare parts for engines and body frames of jets, helicopters, transport aircraft, warships, submarines, you will be massively importing spare parts and missiles from Europe is war breaks out....or else your military machinery will grind to a halt in one month

See how foolish your arguments are dude.

1. Exactly my point idi0t!! you keep bringing up the fact that our Valours have 0 torpedos, when we also have 0 Submarine threats.

2."13 Exocet missiles for 32 exocet launchers?" WTF are you talking about dude?- Neither do you - We manufactured everything but the engine and drive train on our tanks, everything else we manufactured and still maintain by us alone - We built almost all of the Hawk jets in SA, so again you don't know what your talking about - Denel Aviation build spares for ALL our Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters - Denel Aviation also builds spares and maintains all our C-130s- Southern African Shipyards just did a major refit on one of our Valours, they also maintain all of our other Valours - We also refitted SAS Manthatisi and maintain the rest of our Subs by our selves- We don't have to import any missiles, we build our own.

See how foolish YOUR arguments are mate!

iblawi:
Please what makes your military the most modern in this continent. I know your airforce is full of transport and training craft with only 25 fighters and 12 attack helicopters many of which are in long term storage.

Its 26 Gripens and 24 Hawks mate, and 0 are in long term storage, anyway I said more modern I didn't say we have a larger Airforce, thus number of units is irrelevant!

jl115:

Its 26 Gripens and 24 Hawks mate, and 0 are in long term storage, anyway I said more modern I didn't say we have a larger Airforce, thus number of units is irrelevant!

sorry pls I'm only trying to know the things that makes it modern pls help me.

iblawi:
sorry pls I'm only trying to know the things that makes it modern pls help me.

Our Helicopters are more modern, our Radar coverage and Air defence is more modern, Our medium lift aircraft are more modern:
Pic 1 : Oryx cockpit
Pic 2 : SAAF C-130BZ Cockpit
Pic 3 : SAAF PC-7 trainer
Pic 4 : SAAF Hawk 120 LIFT Cockpit

P.S then we still have our A109s, our Gripens , Cessna 208Bs, PC-12, Beech Craft king air which have all modern/have been modernised!

jl115:

Our Helicopters are more modern, our Radar coverage and Air defence is more modern, Our medium lift aircraft are more modern:
Pic 1 : Oryx cockpit
Pic 2 : SAAF C-130BZ Cockpit
Pic 3 : SAAF PC-7 trainer
Pic 4 : SAAF Hawk 120 LIFT Cockpit

P.S then we still have our A109s, our Gripens , Cessna 208Bs, PC-12, Beech Craft king air which have all modern/have been modernised!

have u seen the su30 cockpit or even that of mi28 or MiG 29 try check them out b4 you make judgement. Pls check Der radar coverage too.

iblawi:
have u seen the su30 cockpit or even that of mi28 or MiG 29 try check them out b4 you make judgement. Pls check Der radar coverage too.

Have you seen our Gripen cockpit, Rooivalk cockpit or even our retired Cheetah C cockpit? Algeria doesn't even operate the Mi 28 yet so thus your argument is irrelevant in this regard, also The Mig 29SMT which Algeria operates looks no more modern than our retired cheetah Cs

1, Mig 29SMT
2. Cheetah C

And yes we have way way way better radar coverage, google is your friend if you don't believe me!

jl115:

Our Helicopters are more modern, our Radar coverage and Air defence is more modern, Our medium lift aircraft are more modern:
Pic 1 : Oryx cockpit
Pic 2 : SAAF C-130BZ Cockpit
Pic 3 : SAAF PC-7 trainer
Pic 4 : SAAF Hawk 120 LIFT Cockpit

P.S then we still have our A109s, our Gripens , Cessna 208Bs, PC-12, Beech Craft king air which have all modern/have been modernised!

Algeria is flying the latest versions of Super Lynx ASW, latest Yak-130 trainer jet, latest Su-30 MKA, Mi-28 Havoc, driving latest T-90 tanks in hundreds of numbers, latest Kornet ATGM, latest mobile Pantsir air defense missile plus cannon that have anti-missile capabilities, modern S-300 long range anti-aircraft missile systems, sailing or about to sail latest Meko frigate with latest Oto melara main gun, latest Kilo Sybmarines, latest Exocet missiles with extended range, latest Tiger corvettes, latest armed landing ship mini helicopter carrier....

South Africa is far far far behind Algeria, please drop the foolish comparison.

jl115:

1. Exactly my point idi0t!! you keep bringing up the fact that our Valours have 0 torpedos, when we also have 0 Submarine threats.

2."13 Exocet missiles for 32 exocet launchers?" WTF are you talking about dude?- Neither do you - We manufactured everything but the engine and drive train on our tanks, everything else we manufactured and still maintain by us alone - We built almost all of the Hawk jets in SA, so again you don't know what your talking about - Denel Aviation build spares for ALL our Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters - Denel Aviation also builds spares and maintains all our C-130s- Southern African Shipyards just did a major refit on one of our Valours, they also maintain all of our other Valours - We also refitted SAS Manthatisi and maintain the rest of our Subs by our selves- We don't have to import any missiles, we build our own.

See how foolish YOUR arguments are mate!

Nigeria has surplus Otomat, 40 missiles for 8 launchers . SAN is the one facing chronic missile shortage.

South Africa built no Hawk jet you thief, you imported fully built CKD parts from Britain and assembled the parts at home, Egypt does same for Alpha jets.

You maintain no submarine at home, you only changed battery on one submarine and took seven years in dry dock to change one battery, war would have enslaved every Southie before you finish battery changing in a war situation.

Dummy nation.

jl115:

Our Helicopters are more modern, our Radar coverage and Air defence is more modern, Our medium lift aircraft are more modern:
Pic 1 : Oryx cockpit
Pic 2 : SAAF C-130BZ Cockpit
Pic 3 : SAAF PC-7 trainer
Pic 4 : SAAF Hawk 120 LIFT Cockpit

P.S then we still have our A109s, our Gripens , Cessna 208Bs, PC-12, Beech Craft king air which have all modern/have been modernised!

Stop this your useless comparison with Algeria. The Algerian military is millions of Light years ahead of the South-African military.


South-Africa only has a few modern systems here and there, nothing ground breaking.

-Your Frigates are not modern

-Your Tanks are not modern

- Your Gripens are 4th GEN, but they lack proper BVR capabilities

- Your Frigates are not modern, they can only sail under-water for 4 days, after that, your sailors need to bring it up to charge it's batteries.

- Your Air defence is sh1T!!

- Your Infantry is the oldest in the world

- You lack qualified fighter pilots for your Gripen

- you only have 3 C-130s available at any one time

- You only have 10 Half-French Helicopters, they still aren't modern. The last pilot who tried NOE flying with your obsolete Helicopters ended up in the emergency wing of the hospital.

- your MPAs are amongst the oldest in the world

- you are only good at building MRAPs..... And more MRAPs. You are a soweto nation of dunder-head MRAP makers!


There is absolutely nothing modern about the SANDF.

agaugust:


Algeria is flying the latest versions of Super Lynx ASW, latest Yak-130 trainer jet, latest Su-30 MKA, Mi-28 Havoc, driving latest T-90 tanks in hundreds of numbers, latest Kornet ATGM, latest mobile Pantsir air defense missile plus cannon that have anti-missile capabilities, modern S-300 long range anti-aircraft missile systems, sailing or about to sail latest Meko frigate with latest Oto melara main gun, latest Kilo Sybmarines, latest Exocet missiles with extended range, latest Tiger corvettes, latest armed landing ship mini helicopter carrier....

South Africa is far far far behind Algeria, please drop the foolish comparison.

-Algeria isn't flying any Mi 28, they don't have any yet ,we have the Rooivalk mk1F,-They are also not flying any Super Lynx because they don't have any, we do!! - the Yak-130 isn't any more modern than our Hawk 120, neither is the Su30MK more modern than our Gripen - in my original post I said the T90 is more modern than our Olifant so I don't know what the problem is- Mokopa is more modern than the Kornet and the Ingwe isn't far behind- We have the Oerlikon 35mm GDF-007 AHEAD, starstreak, and in the near future the Umkhonto SAM,BTW the S-300 isn't that modern- They don't have any Valours or Tigr corvettes- Our Heroine class subs are more modern than their Kilo class- they are going to use the same Exocet missile on their Valours than the ones we are using.

We also have a much much better C4I2R capability than Algeria, Link za,C2,IMPI tracker ring a bell? we have more modern artillery, more modern infantry, and more modern APCs and IFVs.

We also have more modern helicopter fleet and more modern medium lift fleet

We have the widest radar coverage of any country in Africa

and as I said before we have a more modern defence force not more powerful

Henry120:


Stop this your useless comparison with Algeria. The Algerian military is millions of Light years ahead of the South-African military.


South-Africa only has a few modern systems here and there, nothing ground breaking.

-Your Frigates are not modern

-Your Tanks are not modern

- Your Gripens are 4th GEN, but they lack proper BVR capabilities

- Your Frigates are not modern, they can only sail under-water for 4 days, after that, your sailors need to bring it up to charge it's batteries.

- Your Air defence is sh1T!!

- Your Infantry is the oldest in the world

- You lack qualified fighter pilots for your Gripen

- you only have 3 C-130s available at any one time

- You only have 10 Half-French Helicopters, they still aren't modern. The last pilot who tried NOE flying with your obsolete Helicopters ended up in the emergency wing of the hospital.

- your MPAs are amongst the oldest in the world

- you are only good at building MRAPs..... And more MRAPs. You are a soweto nation of dunder-head MRAP makers!


There is absolutely nothing modern about the SANDF.

1. Yes they are, which Frigates does Algeria have that are more modern: P.S The Tigr class and Valour class arnt in service yet!
2. Never said they were more modern than a T90 DIPSH1T!!
3. And? I said a Gripen is equally as modern as a Su30Mk, With BVR or not
4. Since when do our Valours sail under water?
5. Uhm according to you? cool story bro
6. And?
7. 14 Qualified Gripen pilots in 2013 and over 50 Hawk aircrew in 2013 and what does this have to do about modernity?
8. uhm according to you? and what does this have to do about modernity?
9. we have 11 Rooivalk and all upgraded to mk1F standard and is one of the most modern AH on the market!!
10. And? what does this have to do about modernity of our defence force?
11. Jap we make the best and most modern MRAPs in the world thanks for admitting that!

agaugust:


Nigeria has surplus Otomat, 40 missiles for 8 launchers . SAN is the one facing chronic missile shortage.

South Africa built no Hawk jet you thief, you imported fully built CKD parts from Britain and assembled the parts at home, Egypt does same for Alpha jets.

You maintain no submarine at home, you only changed battery on one submarine and took seven years in dry dock to change one battery, war would have enslaved every Southie before you finish battery changing in a war situation.

Dummy nation.

HAHAHA OK

Built or assembled it doesn't matter, Denel Aviation supplies all the spare to maintain our Hawk fleet!

agaugust:


Foreigners invading South African homeland with guns to kill your military and paramilitary during illegal activities of robbing your country of natural resources, becomes a COIN war.

Rhinos sent by Zuma to Botswana after kneeling down and begging for safety is athe final proof of accepting defeat in the hands of Rhino poachers.

Your SANDF 21 battalion and Special forces have faced their 2013-2015 COIN threat at home and failed, your bush war mastery is ZERO !
.

No crime is not COIN. And is the responsibility of SAPS not the SANDF

21 SAI and SF were not deployed to do anything other than protect the border

agaugust:


Civilian drones in farms and companies in mining industry do survellance and are called surveillance drones, so civilians too are using spy equipment?

Your satellite is called surveillance by SIPRI....not spy....ya got an observation toy from Russia.

Morocco's satellite is classified by SIPRI as Recce....yea, the only spy satellite in Africa.

Surveilance is a synonym for Spy

Konder-E is a military grade satelight

1+1= 2

agaugust:


Russian ministry of defence is run by civilians, are civilians now an army?

Russian army is run by the ministry of defence. Is the Russian army civilians?

agaugust:


You posted random photos of SANDF white men who did not fight in Angolan bush war, some are even non-combatants, includes admin/accounts department soldiers.....men with ZERO bush war experience in their lives
.

An 18 year old in 1989 is how old now?

agaugust:


Stopping foreign armed invasion of your homeland is SANDF's constitutional role, that's why they were deployed there and your air force crashed during the operations to stop armed Rhino thieves that come from other countries....invaders robbing your homeland
.

Augustus, AP duties are not the SANDFs responsibility

Nothing you say or do will change this fact

agaugust:


Show me proof that those men fought in Angolan bush war, prove it like Eben Barlow is proved to have fought the bush war.

Prove it !!!!!!!
.

John Dovey is an example of one of the thousands of men.

agaugust:


Show me proof of old SADF Bush war COIN experts currently in SANDF service today.....simple question, answer with proof
.

I have

agaugust:


I need proof that those men in those photos fought COIN war operations in Angola. Any dummy can wear SANDF uniform, even white-men recruited 20 years ago after Bush war ended, will still appear in uniform despite never having fired a rifle in combat all their lives.

Prove to us that Eben Barlow's battlefield war veteran colleagues are still in SANDF today.

Ridiculous demands

Stop devaluing this thread

iblawi:
have u seen the su30 cockpit or even that of mi28 or MiG 29 try check them out b4 you make judgement. Pls check Der radar coverage too.

Hahahaha

Are you re.tarded?

patches689:



Hahahaha

Are you re.tarded?

I got tired of the argument cos I now see you are not even sincere to yourself.

I just proved to you that you have incomplete navy and airforce just like Nigeria.

Your Airforce is almost as good as a commercial airline Cos You mainly have transport craft of different types.

Your Hawks are trainers.

A modern military with 11 attack helicopters and 26 Gripens.

Some of you even claim you have 14 well trained fighter pilot 4 your 26 Gripens which we are not even sure of yet. And you call all that modern.

Is it because of your transport aircraft you want to bring 3000 troops to Nigeria?

you must be joking.

Am sure u will still tell me you are better than Egypt.

iblawi:

I got tired of the argument cos I now see you are not even sincere to yourself.

I just proved to you that you have incomplete navy and airforce just like Nigeria.

Your Airforce is almost as good as a commercial airline Cos You mainly have transport craft of different types.

Your Hawks are trainers.

A modern military with 11 attack helicopters and 26 Gripens.

Some of you even claim you have 14 well trained fighter pilot 4 your 26 Gripens which we are not even sure of yet. And you call all that modern.

Is it because of your transport aircraft you want to bring 3000 troops to Nigeria?

you must be joking.

Am sure u will still tell me you are better than Egypt.

1. Unlike Nigera, we have a navy. You do not.

2. Hawks are weaponized - they can deploy JDAMS (you only have 2 airplanes that can do that) and engage in air to air combat

3. 14 Trained pilots in 2013. Its now 2015.

4. 11 of the most advanced attack helicopters in Southern Africa.

5. Apart from 2 OPV's, the ATR-42 and 2 upgarded alpha jets (with a handfull of drones) there is absolutely nothing modern in your military. Certainly no where near as advanced as us.

South Africa stands head and shoulders above nigeria