bokohalal:

Imagine that. That the Portuguese changed the Yorubas to Edos in Benin Kingdom.

It's ludicrous.. They are basically saying that they were the ones behind the glory of the Benin Kingdom.

macof:


Actually Akiolu is descended from an Ijesa man not Bini
The last Oba of Lagos in the Bini(Ado) dynasty was Akinsemoyin, although this family stil exists they cannot become Oba
The current dynasty is Ologun Kutere son of an Ijesa priest and sister of akinsemoyin

Anyway if you know anything about lagos you will know that the Bini descendants see themselves as Awori yorubas nothing more nothing less

in otherword the matriach of the current dynasty is from the bini line? As a testament to the might of the old bini empire

macof:

I hear his mother was yoruba tho. But even Ado is a Yoruba name

the names have been yorubanised.

macof:


I doubt if any serious empire will leave it's capital city without walls. Not only it's capital city but any land that needed protection

A wall is the first call of Defense

tell him

Ubenedictus:
in otherword the matriach of the current dynasty is from the bini line? As a testament to the might of the old bini empire

Since when did we start taking mother's lineage over the father's in africa?

Yes yes all empires have a testament long after their collapse, nothing special with Bini particularly not in lagos. Look to Aniocha people for that

Ubenedictus:
the names have been yorubanised.

ok what are the original names

macof:


Since when did we start taking mother's lineage over the father's in africa?

Yes yes all empires have a testament long after their collapse, nothing special with Bini particularly not in lagos. Look to Aniocha people for that

ur friends just claimed the bini neva expanded

macof:

ok what are the original names

u nid physicsqed for dat

macof:

ok what are the original names

u nid physicsqed for dat

wytecat:
You must be suffering from attention deficit disorder or crazy.

The Benin of today are NOT the same as the Yoruba subgroup Bini. Every Yoruba subgroup speak a Yoruba dialect, the Benin don't and their own account of history is different from that of Bini. Itsekiri and Olukunmi who are even far away claim to be from Bini, speak Yoruba dialects, and with the conquest that went on around the surrounding area, that could have been the only reason the Benin are where they are today and NOT one of we Yorubas.

They are more likely Ibos or Iboid group from the Seast.

Benin are not Yoruba, but the land was once inhabited by Yoruba, that's why the most important traditions of naming and worshipping of orisha still have to be in Yoruba. Even the palace still uses iyoba.

As you can see, this is the same thing I've been saying all along, and I see no reason to repeat it.

So igbos are that powerful? To drive yoruba people away from their own land? Do you really believe that could organize a such an efficient force

One would expect the itsekiri and Olukumi to tell about how the igbos drove them away from Bini.
But how come there's no record of such from the people you mentioned?

Itsekiri were from Ijebu, it's only the royal class that is Bini. And we know very well that Ginuwa wasn't chased out of Bini by Igbos

Even Ewe in Ghana have some of our orisa, and they aren't yoruba. Many Venezuelans worship the Yoruba way yet they aren't yoruba or even descended from yorubas. Btw if the Binis today are igbos why don't they have anything about Igbo Deities or any common practice that can be traced to igboland? . So I don't think having yoruba orisa is anything to buttress your claim

Ubenedictus:
ur friends just claimed the bini neva expanded

Well people can claim whatever they like but without any proof it's just nothing

But you Bini folk like claiming what doesn't concern you. .it has become a habit

Ubenedictus:
china had walls even though it was an empire, d vatican had walls while controlling nations. nri was actually a village not a kingdom,

Nri was not a village.

Agukwu adopted the name Nri just a few decades ago.

True Nri comprises of Enugwu-Ukwu, Nawfia, Enugwu-Agidi, Agukwu by order of birth

The ancestor of these four towns was Eze Nri Menri. The first ever eze Nri and the first son of Eri.

Agukwu adopting the name Nri has drastically reduced the length and breadth of the size of the kingdom.

The original Nri kingdom invented most of the deep cultural practices of the Igbos and some traditional beliefs in Benin and Igala kingdom

macof:


So igbos are that powerful? To drive yoruba people away from their own land? Do you really believe that could organize a such an efficient force

One would expect the itsekiri and Olukumi to tell about how the igbos drove them away from Bini.
But how come there's no record of such from the people you mentioned?

Itsekiri were from Ijebu, it's only the royal class that is Bini. And we know very well that Ginuwa wasn't chased out of Bini by Igbos

Even Ewe in Ghana have some of our orisa, and they aren't yoruba. Many Venezuelans worship the Yoruba way yet they aren't yoruba or even descended from yorubas. Btw if the Binis today are igbos why don't they have anything about Igbo Deities or any common practice that can be traced to igboland? . So I don't think having yoruba orisa is anything to buttress your claim

The four market days that Bini people use are traceable to Nri, which is an Igbo clan. In fact those market days are deities owned and controlled by the Nris.
That is why IGU ARO in Igboland is only performed in core Nri towns like Nawfia, Agukwu-Nri, Nawfia and I believe Enugwu-Agidi will be getting into the act soon

OfoIgbo:


The four market days that Bini people use are traceable to Nri, which is an Igbo clan. In fact those market days are deities owned and controlled by the Nris.
That is why IGU ARO in Igboland is only performed in core Nri towns like Nawfia, Agukwu-Nri, Nawfia and I believe Enugwu-Agidi will be getting into the act soon

Ok. I think I've come across this before
btw do you buy that Bini are from igboland?

This is the last time I'm talking about this very topic with you.

Ibos are NOT powerful, but Bini were a small population and couldn't have been up to half the size of the Ibos. They were not necessarily driven out, but technically done just like many are leaving from let's say Gwoza for other far areas for safety, and ofcourse not all Bini left, reasons people still name and observe some Yoruba traditions. Strange looking clowns come to town to scare people away was a story you have probably heard before, and other Yoruba at war with each other could have cause a people to be vulnerable to even the weakest link.

You don't know all your history, and just because the Itsekiri and Olukunmi are not saying or you don't know doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened. People are rediscovering themselves as time goes on and new info are revealed everyday. And unless you have explanation for the holes in all the history about how some people came to be, you just can't wave mine.


You are NOT Yoruba, so stop saying "our orisa". Yoruba descendants introduced the Orisa to Venezuela, what would it have cost some Brazilians and Cubans Yoruba descendants to cross into Venezuela back in the day to establish . I've read and heard somewhere about Ewes of Ghana with historical link with Yoruba, all plausible.

The culture and tradition the latest inhabitants brought to Bini land had to die, same way the only religion that survived during the slavery is Yoruba's. We have a culture that's like none other. The Bini land had a Yoruba heritage that thousands of years can't remove.

macof:


So igbos are that powerful? To drive yoruba people away from their own land? Do you really believe that could organize a such an efficient force

One would expect the itsekiri and Olukumi to tell about how the igbos drove them away from Bini.
But how come there's no record of such from the people you mentioned?

Itsekiri were from Ijebu, it's only the royal class that is Bini. And we know very well that Ginuwa wasn't chased out of Bini by Igbos

Even Ewe in Ghana have some of our orisa, and they aren't yoruba. Many Venezuelans worship the Yoruba way yet they aren't yoruba or even descended from yorubas. Btw if the Binis today are igbos why don't they have anything about Igbo Deities or any common practice that can be traced to igboland? . So I don't think having yoruba orisa is anything to buttress your claim

macof:


Well people can claim whatever they like but without any proof it's just nothing

But you Bini folk like claiming what doesn't concern you. .it has become a habit

what did edos claim?

OfoIgbo:


Nri was not a village.

Agukwu adopted the name Nri just a few decades ago.

True Nri comprises of Enugwu-Ukwu, Nawfia, Enugwu-Agidi, Agukwu by order of birth

The ancestor of these four towns was Eze Nri Menri. The first ever eze Nri and the first son of Eri.

Agukwu adopting the name Nri has drastically reduced the length and breadth of the size of the kingdom.

The original Nri kingdom invented most of the deep cultural practices of the Igbos and some traditional beliefs in Benin and Igala kingdom

To be honest Nri developed a great culture that spread well. how was this able to happen?

OfoIgbo:


The four market days that Bini people use are traceable to Nri, which is an Igbo clan. In fact those market days are deities owned and controlled by the Nris.
That is why IGU ARO in Igboland is only performed in core Nri towns like Nawfia, Agukwu-Nri, Nawfia and I believe Enugwu-Agidi will be getting into the act soon

have u ever seen binis refer to eke, afor, orie as their market days? Stop carrying rumours.

Ubenedictus:
what did edos claim?

Idah, Ondo, Onitcha, even Ife etc
Somehow you want people to believe your people founded every city

Interesting thread. But I don't like the way intellectual issues as this is being treated like joke.

Few years ago when the Benin monarch wrote his book on Elkaderhan and it baceme a thorough argument, channels tv in its one sunrise Saturday morning program hosted the second in command to the king, one chief named Akpata(remember?)
One salient point made by him on the program was that although he may not be able to talk on the ogiso era, but the last 920 years record in Benin palace showed that the Oba ruling houses have always been Yoruba or Ife. He said Yoruba has been the palace language and some prominent Bini families, think he mentioned Bello Osagie family too.please check channels tv archive if you are interested.
I strongly believe the relationship between Yoruba(ife) and Benin is of blood relation. What I seek to know is the extent of the old Ife kingdom, until proven otherwise I believe it covers from Ife through Ekiti to fringes of Delta.
Using the term Yoruba itself limits our knowledge of a people who were ancient and had links with Egyptian empire.

Wytecat should note that in her empire days, Benin warriors would have sought him out and gagged and tied him face up and left in the open till he died. Or , after the Europeans introduced Christianity, he could have been crucified so that his death will save the Empire as Christians say Jesus died to save the world.

Exactly, your empire was about kidnapping unarmed innocent people. You are still doing that today via the militants anyway. So much for a poultry empire.
This is how powerful y'all were lied to that you were. Lies! You were scammed.

Those who had an empire no matter how small have some to show for it today.You were never anything and still ain't anybody!

bokohalal:
Wytecat should note that in her empire days, Benin warriors would have sought him out and gagged and tied him face up and left in the open till he died. Or , after the Europeans introduced Christianity, he would have been crucified so that his death would save the Empire.

mandarin:
Interesting thread. But I don't like the way intellectual issues as this is being treated like joke.

Few years ago when the Benin monarch wrote his book on Elkaderhan and it baceme a thorough argument, channels tv in its one sunrise Saturday morning program hosted the second in command to the king, one chief named Akpata(remember?)
One salient point made by him on the program was that although he may not be able to talk on the ogiso era, but the last 920 years record in Benin palace showed that the Oba ruling houses have always been Yoruba or Ife. He said Yoruba has been the palace language and some prominent Bini families, think he mentioned Bello Osagie family too.please check channels tv archive if you are interested.
I strongly believe the relationship between Yoruba(ife) and Benin is of blood relation. What I seek to know is the extent of the old Ife kingdom, until proven otherwise I believe it covers from Ife through Ekiti to fringes of Delta.
Using the term Yoruba itself limits our knowledge of a people who were ancient and had links with Egyptian empire.

go back and check d ife map. the ruling houses that speak yoruba and still bear yoruba name are d edo n'akure, the chiefs sent as ambasadors to yoruba land, one of such is on nl. Even families with direct connection to d royal house speak edo even their oriki is in d edo lang. Mayb areafada can help u.

wytecat:
Exactly, your empire was about kidnapping unarmed innocent people. You are still doing that today via the militants anyway. So much for a poultry empire.
This is how powerful y'all were lied to that you were. Lies! You were scammed.

Those who had an empire no matter how small have some to show for it today.You were never anything and still ain't anybody!

hehehehehe. Really that is the best u can do?

Edos do not like claiming relationship with Yorubas (with the exception of nollywood), so the arguments here are understandable imo.

wytecat:
This is the last time I'm talking about this very topic with you.

Its your choice

Ibos are NOT powerful, but Bini were a small population and couldn't have been up to half the size of the Ibos. They were not necessarily driven out, but technically done just like many are leaving from let's say Gwoza for other far areas for safety, and ofcourse not all Bini left, reasons people still name and observe some Yoruba traditions.

Well, Igbos were never one people working together
So first of all you'll need to tell us what group of igbos were involved in the act. Was it Nri, Agbor, Aboh, Aro?? and then we can talk about their population against that of Bini

Strange looking clowns come to town to scare people away was a story you have probably heard before, and other Yoruba at war with each other could have cause a people to be vulnerable to even the weakest link.

Yes I've heard, but not from Bini, itsekiri or Olukumi

You don't know all your history, and just because the Itsekiri and Olukunmi are not saying or you don't know doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened.

Ok, I don't know but you know that's why I'm asking questions
It would be wrong for you to just force that story on itsekiri and Olukumi when the people don't claim it for themselves. . Maybe you have a strong relationship with the itsekiri and Olukumi that they have told you that part of their history that nobody else seems to know. .
We can't be playing guessing game like this. I can easily say the itsekiri and Olukumi are from the massai of Kenya and tell you because they don't say it doesn't mean it never happened

People are rediscovering themselves as time goes on and new info are revealed everyday. And unless you have explanation for the holes in all the history about how some people came to be, you just can't wave mine.

that is why I have not written off your claims. But you don't expect anyone to take you seriously without any proof
What Itsekiri say about themselves and what their neighbors know is that they were sea rovers, there's no hint on igbos driving them to Iwere. Their Bini connection is purely palace politics
So you'll need a lot of work to get people to take you seriously. And I doubt the people of Benin( some on this thread) would even agree that they are Igbo invaders

You are NOT Yoruba, so stop saying "our orisa".

Well you can't know me better than myself. Or now you wanna tell me my own origins? We haven't finished on the Bini being igbo invaders you know

Yoruba descendants introduced the Orisa to Venezuela

what would it have cost some Brazilians and Cubans Yoruba descendants to cross into Venezuela back in the day to establish . I've read and heard somewhere about Ewes of Ghana with historical link with Yoruba, all plausible.

of course just as Yoruba descendants introduced Orisa Veneration to many other south Americans so did yorubas introduce orisa to other west africans.. in fact we introduced different orisa among ourselves

The culture and tradition the latest inhabitants brought to Bini land had to die, same way the only religion that survived during the slavery is Yoruba's. We have a culture that's like none other. The Bini land had a Yoruba heritage that thousands of years can't remove.

Why would the invaders adopt the culture of the people they were driving away?

Well Asides the Monarchy and Orisa cults I can't think of any other Yoruba heritage that Igbo invaders had to contend with
And if you are correct, wouldn't the differences between Yoruba and Edo today be identified as Igbo elements? But they are not, why is that? If Bini only became different from Other yoruba subgroups at the invasion of igbos those little differences should be traced back to igboland

[/quote]

Ubenedictus:
go back and check d ife map. the ruling houses that speak yoruba and still bear yoruba name are d edo n'akure, the chiefs sent as ambasadors to yoruba land, one of such is on nl. Even families with direct connection to d royal house speak edo even their oriki is in d edo lang. Mayb areafada can help u.

There's still much that is not known about Ife. . A map will not tell us that

Isn't oriki a yoruba thing?

Ubenedictus:
have u ever seen binis refer to eke, afor, orie as their market days? Stop carrying rumours.

Most people refer to it as ORIE, but in Nri, we refer to it as OYE.
Most people refer to it as AFOR, but in Nri, we refer to it as AVWOR or AVFOR

The reason I brought out the above points is so that you will know that there are even variations in the market day pronunciations even in Igboland, so you will even notice wider variations in non-Igbolands like Bini or Igalaland.

Portuguese explorers confirmed seeing REVERRED MEN FROM THE EAST, when they visited the Benin oba's palace more than half a millennium ago. These reverred men taught the Benin palace about the movement of the heavenly bodies and seasons e.g year counting.
Well, Nri are the only people that do this, east of Benin.

Please give us the four market days used by Binis. I'm sure some of the names will ring familiar to any Igbo.

Have you asked yourself, how come Bini people also use the refrain ISEEE or ISEN, when a traditional prayer is made or an Oba is hailed?

You have this big problem of identity crisis, and trying to make up for it by fitting in any ethnic topic.

You are not Yoruba, be proud of your confused tribe!

macof:

Its your choice

Well, Igbos were never one people working together
So first of all you'll need to tell us what group of igbos were involved in the act. Was it Nri, Agbor, Aboh, Aro?? and then we can talk about their population against that of Bini


Yes I've heard, but not from Bini, itsekiri or Olukumi


Ok, I don't know but you know that's why I'm asking questions
It would be wrong for you to just force that story on itsekiri and Olukumi when the people don't claim it for themselves. . Maybe you have a strong relationship with the itsekiri and Olukumi that they have told you that part of their history that nobody else seems to know. .
We can't be playing guessing game like this. I can easily say the itsekiri and Olukumi are from the massai of Kenya and tell you because they don't say it doesn't mean it never happened

that is why I have not written off your claims. But you don't expect anyone to take you seriously without any proof
What Itsekiri say about themselves and what their neighbors know is that they were sea rovers, there's no hint on igbos driving them to Iwere. Their Bini connection is purely palace politics
So you'll need a lot of work to get people to take you seriously. And I doubt the people of Benin( some on this thread) would even agree that they are Igbo invaders


Well you can't know me better than myself. Or now you wanna tell me my own origins? We haven't finished on the Bini being igbo invaders you know

of course just as Yoruba descendants introduced Orisa Veneration to many other south Americans so did yorubas introduce orisa to other west africans.. in fact we introduced different orisa among ourselves

Why would the invaders adopt the culture of the people they were driving away?

Well Asides the Monarchy and Orisa cults I can't think of any other Yoruba heritage that Igbo invaders had to contend with
And if you are correct, wouldn't the differences between Yoruba and Edo today be identified as Igbo elements? But they are not, why is that? If Bini only became different from Other yoruba subgroups at the invasion of igbos those little differences should be traced back to igboland

Those are words not some empty rhetoric y'all are known for. I haven't seen anything near that from you.

Ubenedictus:
hehehehehe. Really that is the best u can do?

macof:


Ok. I think I've come across this before
btw do you buy that Bini are from igboland?

It is a pity that records were not kept. But I won't be surprised if it turns out that the Eweka royal family are of Nri ancestry. I know you must have come across ILE-IBINU, but do you know that
1) We believe Bini was derived from ILO-OBINU, which is an Igbo phrase that means A ROAD TO BITTER HEARTS
2) EWEKA is IWEKA which is an Igbo phrase that means that ANGER IS GREAT, supposedly describing the inhabitants.
3) OBA is a title born by highly respected individuals in Umu-Nri towns, and the word does not mean KING in Igbo. A few weeks ago, someone wrote in nl that OBA does not also mean KING in Edo.
4) Obas in Benin were crowned by Nri priests, up till the crowning of Ewuare
5) Anthropologists recorded that Eze Nri Obalike mentioned IDU as one of the territories under the Nri cultural influence when he was interviewed by early Anthropologists.
6) Most Igbo villages and town were "governed" by councils of elders and nze and ozo titled men before the coming of the white man, but according to Umu-Nri records, about sixty something towns had Igwes most of whom trace their ancestry to Nri. Places like OraEri and Ogwashi-Uku included. Back in those days, thdse communities preferred Nri royal houses because of their culture and traditions and civilisation. I won't be surprised if this was also the case in Benin, thus leading to the installation of the IWEKA dynasty, which led to the Nri cultural influence that can still be observed in Benin culture

Afi a road to bitter hearts na.