CHESSBOARD: PLEASE POLITICAL MODERATORS CAN THIS BE ONE OF THE TOPICS OF OUR MONTHLY DEBATE. This is the first time I am reading a thread and I am at peace with the responses.

Cerebral topics like this always attract intellectuals and the intelligensia of NL. I am yet to see tribal bigots like Dayokanu, CyberG, yemiluv, kasumoto e.t.c make any contribution here. If it is tribal bashing time, their comments have reached the 7th page by now.

ndu_chucks:

I don't accept the notion that ALL police officers and ALL politicians are corrupt. The right leader can significantly change the seemingly hopeless situation. I'm sure you'd agree with me that Lagos state has significantly improved despite corrupt police and politicians. I believe this is due to effect enforcement of many laws in the state.

Once again, since you don't think it's about behaviour, but rather, what we have on paper,

1) what's the behaviour of the person who brought about these changes

2) Would he have succeeded if he was not able to get people who behave and have the same philosophy as him?

3) Why would he have set up institutions like the drivers' institute, environment club, etc if behavioural change was not important?

Let me ask a simple question, which do you think is more desirable?

1) To teach market women that it is better to keep the market clean. To teach them that they should not sell on the roads. To teach them to sell clean and wholesome goods.

2) To shut down markets because the market women do not clean their environment, because they sell on the roads, because they sell expired goods.

Both approaches are effective and can/should be used, but which approach is more desirable?

Gbawe:
My guy, read again properly and stop coming to wrong conclusions because you have not taken time to read and comprehend what is written. Fashola makes it crystal clear he is not against the constitution. His point is that there must be sincerity of purpose and the right attitude/values to make even the most brilliant constitution perform well. It is what many of us have consistently argued here.

Even a dullard understands that there must be sincerity of purpose and the right attitude to make any constitution perform well. This is a no brainer.

Fashola:
What is under constitution consideration is whether a constitution amendment is really what we want. What lies at the heart of the clamour is the desire for a better life, not really a better document. Nigerians want to pay school fees, feed themselves and work. The Constitution is just an agreement on how we relate to one another. Its effectiveness depends on our sincerity to honour agreement. We don’t have electoral malpractices, because the constitution is bad; our roads are bad for motorists not because the constitution is bad. The crash of the stock exchange isn’t because the constitution is bad.

In my opinion, only an idiot will suggest that our constitution does not need to be amended or that a restructuring is not in order.

@Topic.

Fashola and Obi are clearly talking about different things pertaining to the efficacy and fairness of the constitution respectively. They 'disagree' on nothing as the title of the article erroneously suggests. Their respective arguments are not even at cross-purposes and I don't see why some forumers cannot appreciate that.

As far as I can tell, Fashola's argument is straightforward. Constitutional amendment alone, even as he is not against it, may not deliver the changes we require if sincerity of purpose is lacking.

Obi's argument is more complex but one I feel can be right if certain things are inspected. If other regions with 6-7 States have no logical/factual justification to have more States than the SE then the SE has the right to demand for a 6th State. This makes Obi's point that the constitution is ostensibly unfair for accommodating the uneven creation of States. Mind you, the case must still be made that the considerations employed to aid State creation was/is partisan.

naptu2:

Once again, since you don't think it's about behaviour, but rather, what we have on paper,

1) what's the behaviour of the person who brought about these changes

2) Would he have succeeded if he was not able to get people who behave and have the same philosophy as him?

3) Why would he have set up institutions like the drivers' institute, environment club, etc if behavioural change was not important?

I did not say its what's on paper rather than behavior. I said what we need is effective law enforcement and I believe that an effective leader can make it happen. We do not have to change people's behavior before we improve upon our constitution, we can do both in tandem. To suggest that we change behavior before we improve upon our constitution is dumb.

naptu2: Let me ask a simple question, which do you think is more desirable?

1) To teach market women that it is better to keep the market clean. To teach them that they should not sell on the roads. To teach them to sell clean and wholesome goods.

2) To shut down markets because the market women do not clean their environment, because they sell on the roads, because they sell expired goods.

Both approaches are effective and can/should be used, but which approach is more desirable?

Your question is rigged o. Option 2 is too extreme. I prefer the carrot and stick approach. Educate the people about the health risks of keeping the market dirty and fine them for not following the rules (even jail them for a couple of days). Why shut down the market for 'minor' infractions?

I think onechanges have to do in the order in which they should come not really in whether one is necesaary or not. The points i see here are:
1. Nigerian urgently needs both the constitutional change and the attitudinal change that both camps propse. The constitutional change should not have the focus of equating the no of states in each region as the Governor Obi tends to or abolishing sharia/introducing other religious laws as one poster surmises. The constituional change in my opnion should be foucused on core issues of national unity, true federalism, resource control, anticorruption and greater attention to the rule of law and fiscal federalism. No of states and and sundry issues like sharia are largely results of ethnic sentiments which can be properly adressed if true federalism is practiced.
2. Doing away with the state structure in favour of the regional structures will never solve the problems of nigeria. In the history of Nigeria, there has never been a push for self actualization and anti marginalization campaigns like in recent times. A regional structure will lead to an even greater push to actualization than we have now. Each state in this polity called nigeria, has not less than 3 ethnic groups making it up and each arre trying to produce the governors, the senators and ministers! imagine the chaos if all the ethnic dimensions in the south souith where trying to produce a regional governor. Also inthe regional arrangement, development will be very very far from the grass roots.
3. Until ethniity and religious sentiments are removed in its entirety from the polity, no constitutional change, no political reform, no electoral reform will help this country.

ndu_chucks: How can Fashola or anyone who hopes to rule Nigeria have any problem whatsoever with amending our constitution or even rewriting it? Is it not senseless to call for social engineering which could take generations for its effect to be actualized, instead of amending the constitution or rewriting it?

I am beginning to feel that Fashola may not have what it takes to move Nigeria forward. His talents are probably limited to managing entities such as cities and small states.

Obi is on point here and even the old coot Edwin Clark, is making more sense than Fashola.

Ndu-cock with subtle campaign of calumny. Check the topic, read the content and compare with the conclusion.

Yoruba intellectuals here should please come up with an instance, just one instance, where _cocks spoke ill of a northern leader in the past. You guys should quit the niceties. The world is not nice. I hope you learn on time to reduce your open-mindedness, it's foolish.

“The thirty six states governors have no
initiative, they only come to Abuja at the end
of every month to collect from the Federation
Account,...

Why Chief Edwin Clark talk like this na?

Akanbi_edu:

Ndu-chucks with subtle campaign of calumny. Check the topic, read the content and compare with the conclusion.

Yoruba intellectuals here should please come up with an instance, just one instance, where _cocks spoke ill of a northern leader in the past. You guys should quit the niceties. The world is not nice. I hope you learn on time to reduce your open-mindedness, it's foolish.

Just so you know, I was one of those who stoned IBB in Zaria a few years ago. BTW, have you stoned one of your thieving politicians lately?

Why are you attempting to turn this into a tribal thing, Atanda, why?

ndu_chucks:

Even a dullard understands that there must be sincerity of purpose and the right attitude to make any constitution perform well. This is a no brainer.

Just admit you spoke hastily and desist from this show of flippancy. What you wrote is quoted below. It is clear you speak guided by the erroneous assumption Fashola is against constitution amendment. When shown this error, you now write what you do above rather than just admit you spoke against Fashola wrongly. I see too much of this on NL. Folks unable to just put aside arrogance and obduracy to agree they are wrong. Fashola has no problem with constitutional amendment. That much is clear from his utterance.

How can Fashola or anyone who hopes to rule Nigeria have any problem whatsoever with amending our constitution or even rewriting it? Is it not senseless to call for social engineering which could take generations for its effect to be actualized, instead of amending the constitution or rewriting it?

I am beginning to feel that Fashola may not have what it takes to move Nigeria forward. His talents are probably limited to managing entities such as cities and small states.

Wow! This is the benefit of a good healthy debate. I don't consider the person I'm debating with to be my enemy. I don't believe that I must be right all the time. I believe I and the person I'm debating with should learn a thing or two from the debate.

Therefore, ndu_chucks just helped me understand Fashola's point better. I was about to reply to his post when I saw something my friend posted on nairaland and then I saw the connection. Here's the point:

1) Politicians steal money, take it to their village and show off. The villagers hail them. People like Ibori will even be protected by such villagers. There will be welcome parties for Bode George and Alamesiegha. This will continue unless and until we can change the behaviour of the people.

2) In the late '90s and early 2000s a lot of people called for a sovereign national conference. I'm not against this call, but I'm not sure it'll solve our problems. Why? The same corrupt politicians will buy votes and get a seat at the table. They will make constitutions that favour them. They will bribe people to support these constitutions or appeal to ethnic sentiments to get people to support these constitutions. The people will rejoice for a year, then get back to complaining. All these could happen if we don't have re-orientation and behaviour change.

We always praise people like Gani and Pat Utomi, but never vote for them. Why?

That's something to ponder on.

Have to go now.

ndu_chucks:

I did not say its what's on paper rather than behavior. I said what we need is effective law enforcement and I believe that an effective leader can make it happen. We do not have to change people's behavior before we improve upon our constitution, we can do both in tandem. To suggest that we change behavior before we improve upon our constitution is dumb.



Your question is rigged o. Option 2 is too extreme. I prefer the carrot and stick approach. Educate the people about the health risks of keeping the market dirty and fine them for not following the rules (even jail them for a couple of days). Why shut down the market for 'minor' infractions?

So there you have it. . . Behavioural change and law enforcement hand in hand.

ndu_chucks:

Just so you know, I was one of those who stoned IBB in Zaria a few years ago. BTW, have you stoned one of your thieving politicians lately?

Why are you attempting to turn this into a tribal thing, Atanda, why?

I am not going to blame you for trying to eliminate potential threats to your 2015 aspirations, it is legitimate. It is those open-minded southern intellectuals I really pity.

They spend the whole year condemning southern politicians pointing out negatives every where, so bad one would think South is the only Nigeria. For example, if I ask people to list the negatives of a Tinubu now, 20 pages of NL will not be able to contain it, but if I asked them to list those of a Lamido, I bet they won't be able to list up to a page.

Yar'adua was a man I really liked and believed in but inspite of that how many of them knew Yar'adua's achievement and faults before he became president? What do we know about Sambo? What about Kwankwaso? How many governors in the North are even known by their names right now? What are they doing to uplift their peoples' wellbeing now? Yet, these are likely presidential candidates in the future.

I am not fooled one bit by your IBB stoning, he's no longer a seen threat, you can afford to soil his image a bit. Besides, he's not so liked by the northen masses.

So I ask you again, what is the correlation between your conclusion and Fashola's comment?

@ Oga Naptu2,

1. God bless you for your wisdom. I was wondering if there was not one single person that read this without any bias and with critical reasoning.
2. For me Fashola was talking about a complete, wholesome and renewed value system. Fashola is a good student of history. Why is the Chineese and the confuscious of these world. These are the same reasons why countries like China, Malaysia, Cuba, and even the Socialist have defined a path which is sustainable for themselves.
3. I also think our constitution is like a template that was simply filled up and does not reflect the realities on ground, hence the feeling of injustice will not bring out willingness in people.
4.These blended with Obi's submission will not only be the right way to go, but define our own customized and sustainable path

naptu2: They didn't exactly disagree. I think the disagreement part was just a bid by the journalist to hype the story. I agree with both of them.

1) I agree with Fashola. We might have the best constitution in the world, but it would be pointless if we don't change the behaviour of the people.

Constitutions are not perfect documents and there is no perfect constitution, because constitutions are made by humans who are imperfect. No matter what constitution we have, people will still find a loophole in it with which they'll do whatever they want. Should we obey the spirit or the letter of the constitution?

Furthermore, a constitution is a document that does not enforce itself. How will the people charged with interpreting and enforcing the constitution behave?

Mind you, Fashola stated clearly that he is not against constitutional change, but he believes that this should go hand in hand with behavioural change.


2) I also agree with Obi. In order to
secure compliance with the constitution and to foster peace and unity, the people must have confidence in the constitution and believe that it is fair and protects their rights and interests.

ndu_chucks:

Just so you know, I was one of those who stoned IBB in Zaria a few years ago. BTW, have you stoned one of your thieving politicians lately?

Why are you attempting to turn this into a tribal thing, Atanda, why?

BTW, I am not a tribalist. In fact I believe the major difference is "haves" and the "have nots". But there is a limit to everything.

Akanbi_edu:

I am not going to blame you for trying to eliminate potential threats to your 2015 aspirations, it is legitimate. It is those open-minded southern intellectuals I really pity.

They spend the whole year condemning southern politicians pointing out negatives every where, so bad one would think South is the only Nigeria. For example, if I ask people to list the negatives of a Tinubu now, 20 pages of NL will not be able to contain it, but if I asked them to list those of a Lamido, I bet they won't be able to list up to a page.

Yar'adua was a man I really liked and believed in but inspite of that how many of them knew Yar'adua's achievement and faults before he became president? What do we know about Sambo? What about Kwankwaso? How many governors in the North are even known by their names right now? What are they doing to uplift their peoples' wellbeing now? Yet, these are likely presidential candidates in the future.

I am not fooled one bit by your IBB stoning, he's no longer a seen threat, you can afford to soil his image a bit. Besides, he's not so liked by the northen masses.

So I ask you again, what is the correlation between your conclusion and Fashola's comment?

I will not accept any responsibility for the ignorance of anyone, if southerners choose to remain ignorant above who Sambo or Kwakwanso is, that is not my problem.

Now, Fashola did not take the opportunity of offer moral support to his Eastern counterparts by stating that the constitution needs improvements, including rectifying the built-in injustice which allowed the SE zone to have less states than other zones. He instead went on lecturing about a no-brainer of an issue.

Akanbi_edu, I'm beginning to suspect that you are an extremists who would prefer to cut all ties with the union.

naptu2: Wow! This is the benefit of a good healthy debate. I don't consider the person I'm debating with to be my enemy. I don't believe that I must be right all the time. I believe I and the person I'm debating with should learn a thing or two from the debate.

Therefore, ndu_chucks just helped me understand Fashola's point better. I was about to reply to his post when I saw something my friend posted on nairaland and then I saw the connection. Here's the point:

1) Politicians steal money, take it to their village and show off. The villagers hail them. People like Ibori will even be protected by such villagers. There will be welcome parties for Bode George and Alamesiegha. This will continue unless and until we can change the behaviour of the people.

2) In the late '90s and early 2000s a lot of people called for a sovereign national conference. I'm not against this call, but I'm not sure it'll solve our problems. Why? The same corrupt politicians will buy votes and get a seat at the table. They will make constitutions that favour them. They will bribe people to support these constitutions or appeal to ethnic sentiments to get people to support these constitutions. The people will rejoice for a year, then get back to complaining. All these could happen if we don't have re-orientation and behaviour change.

We always praise people like Gani and Pat Utomi, but never vote for them. Why?

That's something to ponder on.

Have to go now.

You seem to be suggesting a Sergeant Doe kind of prescription for Nigeria.

I didn't see any disagreement between both men. Fashola is advocating respect for the rule of law as opposed to passing laws people can respect. We don't need a verbose or 5000 page constitution if there is an orientation of respect for authority.

Obi referred to it as an agreement for the basis of unity or nationhood. No long tin there

I don't know Fashola's mind as regards SE getting six states, neither can I speak on his behalf on that. But even a common man like me knows what SE/Obi is asking for is not a good solution to the injustice question. Its like being conditioned to think in a certain way. They are not thinking outside the box at all. Getting six states would provide what kind of justice? making SE equal to who? NW? Ok then what? Seven state to make it equal to NW? Meanwhile on what ground should SE be equated to the rest? landmass, population? Fine. If it is what they term justice, they should be supported to get it, but deep down we should all know it's not the solution.

Awake9ja: Omo tier,

I know following you gently will reveal your intention.
.

So it's clear to us that you are seeing other minorities and region marginalization and injustice mated out against them as fairness and equity.
That's the reason you are putting up those deceptive logics .

Do you have feelins at all.
Do you decide on a level of occasion (party )first before the type of cloth that suits it or do you talk about the cloth first before the type of occasion ?

Why are you guys doing things on the opposite. I hope fashola intent and yours are not same because if it is, i will conclude that sanusi was right when he say that you guys cannot rise above tribal politics.
In a country where minorities are crying by the day why are they treated as second class in a country they call theirs.

I guess you understand how to read in context. I rightly said, that what others might perceive to be injustice, some others may see it as fairness IF their mind set in morally obsolete. Please leave ethnic mind set out of this discussion. Fashola's thinking is in-line with what any sane Nigerian (who understand what truly is going on in the land right now) would think.

Fashola talks like a philosopher. If he keeps going like this I see him giving the whole of Nigeria a sound legacy and lasting principles in the class of Socrates and other grand philosophers.
Attitude is the bane of development & prosperity in Nigeria. Every sector needs behavioral overhaul e.g politics, education,& even religious institutions. For example,I have seen VC of a prestigious university in south africa driving himself to school every morning in his old personal car, yet this is an institution that no Nigerian university can match in academic research, facilities & funding. Our own VCs can't even open their (official) car door by themselves without the help of tens of securities attached to them, even when facilites in their schools are fast decaying.
Obi on the other hand proffered only superficial solutions to d countries prob, while Chief Clark is only clamouring what ND are known for i.e resource control = more money.
Cant stop liking this man called Fashola, and I will be proud to call him boss one day. He has a leadership style that has caught my fancy.

Policewoman: Cerebral topics like this always attract intellectuals and the intelligensia of NL. I am yet to see tribal bigots like Dayokanu, CyberG, yemiluv, kasumoto e.t.c make any contribution here. If it is tribal bashing time, their comments have reached the 7th page by now.

Pls make your own contribution and leave "bigots" alone. BTW I think katsumoto is one of the most intelligent personalities on NL, his arguments are always structured and objective.

Have to agree with @PointB a bit here. Maybe we might need a transcript of all that was said in the meeting because I STILL don't know what Fashola's position is on the issue, and that commentary on social engineering is neither here nor there for me if I am being honest. This is the kind of back and forth I hope we will not have to endure if there ever is a national discourse. Because we need to get things moving, not sit down lamenting and then get NOTHING achieved at the end of the day (LIKE WE HAVE DONE SO MANY TIMES).

Edwin Clark made the most sense. Straight to the point, a proposal that can be accepted, rejected, augmented, discussed, worked on, etc (but ultimately advanced in some way). We don't need more uneccesary lectures and laments. We need to talk with the aim of advancment and getting to a destination and understanding.

SamAfrik: Fashola talks like a philosopher. If he keeps going like this I see him giving the whole of Nigeria a sound legacy and lasting principles in the class of Socrates and other grand philosophers.
Attitude is the bane of development & prosperity in Nigeria. Every sector needs behavioral overhaul e.g politics, education,& even religious institutions. For example,I have seen VC of a prestigious university in south africa driving himself to school every morning in his old personal car, yet this is an institution that no Nigerian university can match in academic research, facilities & funding. Our own VCs can't even open their (official) car door by themselves without the help of tens of securities attached to them, even when facilites in their schools are fast decaying.
Obi on the other hand proffered only superficial solutions to d countries prob, while Chief Clark is only clamouring what ND are known for i.e resource control = more money.
Cant stop liking this man called Fashola, and I will be proud to call him boss one day. He has a leadership style that has caught my fancy.

I disagree with you on this. We DO NOT need more philosophers. Everybody in Nigeria already seems to want to play that role, it is one of the few countries I know where you can stop anybody on the street, ask them the fundamental problem with the country and they break it down for you, but will probably turn around and break the law in heart beat. Enough of that crap please. He is saying NOTHING NEW! There was a reason we had WAI in the Buhari regime. Social engineering is built on good foundations, you can't be waking up every morning to slap a child for NO reason at all and then complain that he cries too much.

At this point in Nigeria we don't need any more unecessary lectures please, we have that in abundance. Have you ever watched governors or leaders discuss when they meet? That is all Nigerians do, lament and philosophise. Enough. I have even heard Oshiomole say more profound things but we need to get things moving. And your view that Edwin Clark is clamouring for resource control because of more money is quite myopic to say the least. If he is to be accused of that then ALL regions and groups should be accused of that. You can't have one standard of morality for one group and a different standard for the others (which is part of the crux of Obi's postulation).

I cant believe people can be this civil on NL. I'd decided to reduce my visit and posting to this forum because of the vile and hatred people spew here.
That being said, the topic at hand is a catch 22 scenerio. Do we work on reforming attitudes when a segment of the society feels cheated, or do we work on correcting the percieved injustice first
If the thruth must be told, our present constitution is a fraud, commissioned by those that had instituted and cultivated the moral and ethical decline Fashola was postulating we correct. Nigerians have to sit down and dicuss how or if we want live as nation.
Fashola's social engineering postulation will take a decades to see the fruits. Do keep going as we are while waiting?
In conclusion, both govs are right, and i do not see why we cant have both suggestions running concurrently.

Akanbi_edu: I don't know Fashola's mind as regards SE getting six states, neither can I speak on his behalf on that. But even a common man like me knows what SE/Obi is asking for is not a good solution to the injustice question. Its like being conditioned to think in a certain way. They are not thinking outside the box at all. Getting six states would provide what kind of justice? making SE equal to who? NW? Ok then what? Seven state to make it equal to NW? Meanwhile on what ground should SE be equated to the rest? landmass, population? Fine. If it is what they term justice, they should be supported to get it, but deep down we should all know it's not the solution.

I think you are missing his point. If clamouring for state is not the solution then why don't we reduce states all across the board? What he is talking about is EQUITY.

I agree with the statement in bold and honestly spaeking, that is the issue. If we reform Nigeria then we reform Nigeria and all is well and good. But if things are to continue the way they are going, at least make things fairer. If we are saying we want a strong nation built on a more efficient sytem bla bla bla, then GOOD. But if we are going to continue supporting a corrupt system focused on stealing from the people and giving nothing back, AT LEAST make all thieves equal. It sounds messed up but it is Nigeria, and it should be a rhetorical proposition because then hopefully people would want the first option of genuine reform. But you can't have two different moral standards whereby, state creation for a group is seen as greed, but for another it is rationalised.

Whitehorse: I cant believe people can be this civil on NL. I'd decided to reduce my visit and posting to this forum because of the vile and hatred people spew here.
That being said, the topic at hand is a catch 22 scenerio. Do we work on reforming attitudes when a segment of the society feels cheated, or do we work on correcting the percieved injustice first
If the thruth must be told, our present constitution is a fraud, commissioned by those that had instituted and cultivated the moral and ethical decline Fashola was postulating we correct. Nigerians have to sit down and dicuss how or if we want live as nation.
Fashola's social engineering postulation will take a decades to see the fruits. Do keep going as we are while waiting?
In conclusion, both govs are right, and i do not see why we cant have both suggestions running concurrently.

How do you correct what you perceive as injustice when the other party sees it as fair share? Again, do you really think Nigerians will be so concerned about constitutional imbalance in terms of state creation if the very basic amenities were available to them to carry out their business day to day? The issue really is not the document, rather it is the mind set of the people and thats what need changing.

Sky Blue:

I think you are missing his point. If clamouring for state is not the solution then why don't we reduce states all across the board? What he is talking about is EQUITY.

I agree with the statement in bold and honestly spaeking, that is the issue. If we reform Nigeria then we reform Nigeria and all is well and good. But if things are to continue the way they are going, at least make things fairer. If we are saying we want a strong nation built on a more efficient sytem bla bla bla, then GOOD. But if we are going to continue supporting a corrupt system focused on stealing from the people and giving nothing back, AT LEAST make all thieves equal. It sounds messed up but it is Nigeria, and it should be a rhetorical proposition because then hopefully people would want the first option of genuine reform. But you can't have two different moral standards whereby, state creation for a group is seen as greed, but for another it is rationalised.

This is what I do not get with the SE governors! Does more state mean improved development? I mean, Edo, Delta is a good case study. And why don't we hear these governors also clamouring rights of the girl child in SE, the need to remove immunity clause, and so many other anomalies that ordinary Nigerians on the street would want to see amended in the Constitution? Why is it all about state creation which in my view they see as more money?

Akanbi_edu: I don't know Fashola's mind as regards SE getting six states, neither can I speak on his behalf on that. But even a common man like me knows what SE/Obi is asking for is not a good solution to the injustice question. Its like being conditioned to think in a certain way. They are not thinking outside the box at all. Getting six states would provide what kind of justice? making SE equal to who? NW? Ok then what? Seven state to make it equal to NW? Meanwhile on what ground should SE be equated to the rest? landmass, population? Fine. If it is what they term justice, they should be supported to get it, but deep down we should all know it's not the solution.

Fashola does not believe in the creation of more States. He believes that creating more Local Goverment areas would be a more effective approach. I agree with this and actually believe the likes of Osun and Ekiti should not be States. More LGA's could have been created and optimally supported to tackle the agitations that some areas were 'neglected'.

Nonetheless, Peter Obi is right to argue , with consistent logic, that "what is good for the goose is good for the gander". The issue of efficiency ,or lack thereof, inherent in the notion of State creation should not be used to disqualify the agitations of some for more States. There is an aspect of the argument pertaining to fairness. This is what Obi is stressing. Why does the SE have less States than other regions? We all know everything is about 'sharing the loot'. Obviously, Obi views this as a way to cheat the SE while allocating more to others unfairly.


http://trends.com.ng/2012/06/states-creation-support-fashola/#sthash.qxBkEUtx.dpbs

More states creation: I’m not in support – Fashola


Governor Babatunde Fashola of Lagos State, Southwest Nigeria, has described the agitation for the creation of additional states by some Nigerians as an attempt to cause confusion that may result in balkanising the existing states.

The Governor made this position known on Friday during a one-day public hearing on the proposed amendment to the 1999 Constitution by the National Assembly, organised by the State House of Assembly.

Fashola, who maintained that the country would incur huge cost for administrative and personnel purposes in creating more states, added that the agitation should be for the creation of more Local Government areas as this would enhance the much needed development at the grassroots and bring government closer to the people.

According to him, “most states are currently not sufficiently viable to justify further subdivision.

“It may well be that the agitation for more inclusiveness in governance and for rapid development may be better addressed by the creation of more local governments than it can be done by the creation more states.”

Fashola also opposed the removal of the immunity clause from the Constitution as canvassed by members of the public, arguing that it is meant for the office as against individuals who occupy privileged offices.

Emphasising that the office preserves its dignity and ensures the effectiveness of administration, the Governor said: “while it is regrettable that there may have been actions which are indicative of abuses of the privilege by some office holders, the privilege of immunity is not for the benefit of the office holder.

“Retention of the clause would prevent unfounded allegations of criminality against top public officials which, if allowed, would bring massive distractions.

“Even where the allegation that necessitates trial relates to corruption or other criminal offences, it is trite that time does not run against investigation and prosecution of offenders. What would have been achieved with the removal of the immunity clause could be achieved at the expiration of the tenure of the serving officials.”

Most of the contributors at the hearing supported the creation of more local governments with some advising that states be given the powers to create local governments instead of what currently obtains.

They also called for the scrapping of the list of local governments from the constitution.

[quote]

Omo_Tier1:
This is what I do not get with the SE governors! Does more state mean improved development? I mean, Edo, Delta is a good case study. And why don't we hear these governors also clamouring rights of the girl child in SE, the need to remove immunity clause, and so many other anomalies that ordinary Nigerians on the street would want to see amended in the Constitution? Why is it all about state creation which in my view they see as more money?

You have missed the point. Read the post again and think about it.

Sky Blue:

I think you are missing his point. If clamouring for state is not the solution then why don't we reduce states all across the board? What he is talking about is EQUITY.

I agree with the statement in bold and honestly spaeking, that is the issue. If we reform Nigeria then we reform Nigeria and all is well and good. But if things are to continue the way they are going, at least make things fairer. If we are saying we want a strong nation built on a more efficient sytem bla bla bla, then GOOD. But if we are going to continue supporting a corrupt system focused on stealing from the people and giving nothing back, AT LEAST make all thieves equal. It sounds messed up but it is Nigeria, and it should be a rhetorical proposition because then hopefully people would want the first option of genuine reform. But you can't have two different moral standards whereby, state creation for a group is seen as greed, but for another it is rationalised.

Omo_Tier1:
How do you correct what you perceive as injustice when the other party sees it as fair share? Again, do you really think Nigerians will be so concerned about constitutional imbalance in terms of state creation if the very basic amenities were available to them to carry out their business day to day? The issue really is not the document, rather it is the mind set of the people and thats what need changing.

The other party sees it as fair because it benefits him. Lets not play ostrich here. If the East gets another state, that state will have to be funded from the federation, leading to less income for the other states. Its not rocket science.

Many Nigerians are concerned about constituional imbalance because they believe thats the only way they can get the basic amenities you talked about. Nigerians are not fools, we know resources are shared based on number of local governements and states.
People do not develop a parculiar mindest out of the blue, something must have made them think in a certain way.

If we have financial and resource autonomy for each and every state or region, i can guarantee you that the noise for more states will die.

The bottom line is people feel they are being cheated financially in this country, and that has to be addressed. Any other thing is secondary.

Whitehorse:
The other party sees it as fair because it benefits him. Lets not play ostrich here. If the East gets another state, that state will have to be funded from the federation, leading to less income for the other states. Its not rocket science.

Many Nigerians are concerned about constituional imbalance because they believe thats the only way they can get the basic amenities you talked about. Nigerians are not fools, we know resources are shared based on number of local governements and states.
People do not develop a parculiar mindest out of the blue, something must have made them think in a certain way.

If we have financial and resource autonomy for each and every state or region, i can guarantee you that the noise for more states will die.

The bottom line is people feel they are being cheated financially in this country, and that has to be addressed. Any other thing is secondary.

WORD. Nigeria has partly made Nigerians the way they are. If they don't trust government, it is because they have been taught not to. If they want a bigger share of the loot instead of reconsidering stealing altogether, it is because they have been taught that is doesn't pay to be moral. So let us not try and talk uneccessary philosophy here and ignore that truth. Social engineering doesn't come over night. But a VERY GOOD START to speed up the process, is an understanding, inclusiveness, equity, and shared trust that people can actually feel (even if sentimentally) and see, one that comes with the words and not just the words on their own.

As @Awake9ja nicely put it:

Awake9ja:
2) how long do you think it going to take us to change the mentality of our people? So do we expect people to wait till then before there will be equality and equity?