Whitehorse:
The other party sees it as fair because it benefits him. Lets not play ostrich here. If the East gets another state, that state will have to be funded from the federation, leading to less income for the other states. Its not rocket science.

Many Nigerians are concerned about constituional imbalance because they believe thats the only way they can get the basic amenities you talked about. Nigerians are not fools, we know resources are shared based on number of local governements and states.
People do not develop a parculiar mindest out of the blue, something must have made them think in a certain way.

If we have financial and resource autonomy for each and every state or region, i can guarantee you that the noise for more states will die.

The bottom line is people feel they are being cheated financially in this country, and that has to be addressed. Any other thing is secondary.

I think this is where you get it all wrong! The creation of more state in a region would not amount to reduction in the Federal allocation in the other regions, again I use the creation of Edo and Delta States as an example. Instead what you would have is that the allocation for that region will be spread amongst the states especially when issue of derivation fund is involved. So drop the idea that Lagos or Kano would suddenly get less Federal allocation because Enugu is carved into two.

I am not bashing any region, since you have made mention of the issue of perceived financial injustice, I would like you to tell us the percentage of revenue generated in the South East, ( and by this I am not referring to Igbos- no ethnic bashing please).

We keep going around doing the same things in diff ways and expect change. This contraption called Nigeria is not working and needs to be re engineered.

Fasholas postulating towards an attitudinal change is quite impossible in the Nigerian context as we have been bstardize since time immemorial by both the miltary and politicians that it would be hard to achieve that, unless he has a magic wand that will translate every Nigerians attitude on a fixed day, say 25th oct all Nigerians attitude would be aligned to good honest God fearing characters. His position is neither here nor there. Which Nigerian does not know we need attitudinal change yet we still almost always choose the wrong thing or try to influence what shud not rightly to us to come to us.

I think Obi's position is something we can work on and fine tune to suit everyone. What's wrong with Igbo race controlling their land and resource and every other region do same, if that is done then each region can decide to run whatever minor constitution they deem fit. If the igbo people decide to have a million states it would be their business because the would also be controlling their resource and paying a certain amount to the federal govt. Fashola can then engineer his attitudinal change in the SW.

My problem whenever these discussions are going on the north always seem to be quiet and there is something like a referendum which thwy can not be ignored, they take a stand that scuttles everything.

I stand with Obi on this!

Omo_Tier1:
I think this is where you get it all wrong! The creation of more state in a region would not amount to reduction in the Federal allocation in the other regions, again I use the creation of Edo and Delta States as an example. Instead what you would have is that the allocation for that region will be spread amongst the states especially when issue of derivation fund is involved. So drop the idea that Lagos or Kano would suddenly get less Federal allocation because Enugu is carved into two.

I am not bashing any region, since you have made mention of the issue of perceived financial injustice, I would like you to tell us the percentage of revenue generated in the South East, ( and by this I am not referring to Igbos- no ethnic bashing please).

I think you are wrong here @OmoTier. Resources are shared based on the number of local government each state has and the number of states. The revenue accruss to the federal govt and there is a sharing formula between the feds/states/local government, not feds/regions, or region/states. The only thing that is shared among states in a particular region is something like the onshore/offshore oil derivation that goes to the Oil producing states, and that is not the purview of this discussion.

As per the revenue generated by the SE states, thats also not in the purview of this discussion. What we are asking for is that how the funds the feds share be shared evenly across the regions, since thats the only criteria used (ie number of states/local government, apart from special funds for the oil states). Till the feds include other criteria in revenue sharing, it is still cheating to have some regions have more than the other.

Reminds me of animal farm and the pigs "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" comes to mind readily...

And yes, NO to ethnic bashing!

ekt_bear:

So, I take it that you agree with Obi that the states should be replaced with zones, and that the SE having 5 states while the NW having 7 is injustice?

For the most part I agree that the SE is shortchanged under the current arrangement. The revenue sharing formula is another built-in injustice which must be rectified.

Dudu_Negro:

......a constitution must never guide how people live. A constitution is limited to a set of relationships explaining among others

1. What government is and how it is structured
2. The heirarchy of authority and power over an orderly society
3. The beginning and end of these authorities and powers
4. The boundaries of reach and limitations prohibiting government from expanding its powers
5. What the people must do to keep government within its confines of limits
6. What the people must do if government fails to abide by the demands of these protocols of separation.

while I don't disagree with the points you raised, I however see it as incomplete as the statement I made.
the constitution is a written jargon on paper which encompass the political, social and cultural views of the people and these emanate from people's way of lives. your points only touched the political aspects of it, what of other aspects? How can the constitution be just if each individual aspirations cannot be fulfilled? remember that a persons aspiration is subjected to views which is dependent on social and cultural background.

Dudu_Negro: We have a wrong understanding of what a constitution is supposed to accomplish . It is a protocol for social order, in the absence of which the society will be consumed by chaos. We have had about four or five different constitutions between 1960 and now and our chaotic ways have gotten worse with each new constitution amendment.

Traffic lights are a protocol for behavior and rights of access at road intersections. Their operation is accurately timed and synched to correspond with traffic demands. Their precision is not what makes them effective, rather.....their effectiveness is dependent on whether drivers obey what the light asks of them. Accidents and chaos at intersections are not caused by the lights......we dont go around changing road lights because of accidents....but we continue to educate road users on safety when approaching intersections and lights generally.

I agree with Fashola.

Your traffic light analogy can only be correct, if it is truly a traffic light, but in Nigeria’s case, it is not. It is rather a traffic light, that has two green lights, one that says go first for a group of people, and the second says to the rest, u can go later, thereby breeding a sense of disobedience and lawlessness. A total disrespect for the lights.

No amount of education will be enough for that kind of traffic lights.

So no amount of social engineering of the people will succeed, when the document that binds them is totally unjust.

Interesting debate

This is clearly a chicken and egg situation; which came first.

An unfair constitution or law leads to undesirable individual behavior which leads to undesirable societal behavior.

For instance, adopting the American constitution will not eliminate or reduce anti-social behavior because it may not be pragmatic. Nigeria has an ineffective NASS which was elected/selected by the people either by omission or commission. Politicians can't vote themselves into power without the tacit assistance of other citizens who either get paid for their bad behavior or fail to demand accountability.

To change the constitution, you will need people to be selected or elected. The positive outcomes of such changes to the constitution are contingent upon the sincerity and moral uprightness of those elected/selected. They may decide that each zone has the same number of states, or that there are no states in each zone, or more settle for something else.

Without a change in attitude no good can come from the attempt to re-write the constitution because it will be hijacked by the charlatans who determine the composition of the NASS. Having said that, changing societal behavior is contingent upon the adoption of behavioral change theories such as the Theory of Reasoned Action which implies that an individual will make positive or negative decisions based on societal attitudes towards such behavior and the society's reward/punish strategy. Societal behavior is influenced through laws and education in schools. These laws and education are set by elected/selected administrators who are chosen by the citizenry.

Given the moral decadence which has gripped Nigerian society, how can the people develop the necessary mindset to make the changes required in administration?

So I go back to the chicken and the egg, which came first.

I think Nigeria needs a WELL-INTENTIONED dictator.

^^^^^+10000%

I think Nigeria needs a WELL-INTENTIONED dictator.

The truth is bitter.

I agree with fashola and Obi...The point of an argument is to pick out the positives and merge them...Now we need to respect the constitution first, then we'll start appreciating it and also i support Obi's claim that some aspects of the constitution needs to be reviewed so we can count on a constitution that stands for equity and fairness

Katsumoto: Interesting debate



I think Nigeria needs a WELL-INTENTIONED dictator.

This is just the truth. This can probably be gotten through devine intervetion considering how bastardized And corrupt everyone seems to be.

ndu_chucks: ^^^^^+10000%

I think Nigeria needs a WELL-INTENTIONED dictator.

The truth is bitter.

Thats a cargo cult idea, no offense meant. How can you tell a well intentioned dictator from an evil intentioned one?

naptu2: They didn't exactly disagree. I think the disagreement part was just a bid by the journalist to hype the story. I agree with both of them.

1) I agree with Fashola. We might have the best constitution in the world, but it would be pointless if we don't change the behaviour of the people.

Constitutions are not perfect documents and there is no perfect constitution, because constitutions are made by humans who are imperfect. No matter what constitution we have, people will still find a loophole in it with which they'll do whatever they want. Should we obey the spirit or the letter of the constitution?

Furthermore, a constitution is a document that does not enforce itself. How will the people charged with interpreting and enforcing the constitution behave?

Mind you, Fashola stated clearly that he is not against constitutional change, but he believes that this should go hand in hand with behavioural change.


2) I also agree with Obi. In order to
secure compliance with the constitution and to foster peace and unity, the people must have confidence in the constitution and believe that it is fair and protects their rights and interests.

Yes good write up, mere going by the duo statements, let me give an instance"in the national assembly, our reps. tend to create violence in the name of disagreement thereby throwing chairms and blow at one another" but no punishment meted on these set of ppl yet they remain in the same place as reps.

So i deem it fit to understand our constitution and take to it by making a change from our own ends. So both are still saying thesame thing. Experienced and intelligent ppls sat down and created this laws for our own good, we are the one trying to basterdize it.Another is our Police stations where you see "BAIL IS FREE" but you won't be released from the stations without a penny even if you are an innocent so let us reason well. Thank you

df2006:

Your traffic light analogy can only be correct, if it is truly a traffic light, but in Nigeria’s case, it is not. It is rather a traffic light, that has two green lights, one that says go first for a group of people, and the second says to the rest, u can go later, thereby breeding a sense of disobedience and lawlessness. A total disrespect for the lights.

No amount of education will be enough for that kind of traffic lights.

So no amount of social engineering of the people will succeed, when the document that binds them is totally unjust.

To support your argument, I will give an example.

In September 2000, there was fuel scarcity in the UK brought on by a strike. The government responded by introducing some temporary rationing rules. If you worked in one of the essential services such as hospitals, fire stations, police, schools, you could jump the queues and buy fuel leaving others on the queue. But guess what happened in a civil society such as the UK. Folks started getting friends to buy fuel for them or using IDs that belonged to others to circumvent that rule. This situation existed for a short period; I think it was a month. Now imagine if the UK government has very many unfair rules. How do you explain to a salesman that he has to sacrifice for a short period for the good of society when he has responsibilities. That is the same story with Nigeria. People will break rules because they have to survive and the rules weren't fair in the first place.

It is not enough that a society has rules, crucially, those rules must be fair. As soon as a multi tiered system is introduced, the rules breakdown and anti-social behavior becomes the other of the day.

KINGwax: now my friend, i see you're jes a fashola-asss-kicker! I respect d man though, and also a lagosian but he is fuckin stagnant there!
We need ds law to move it..
1. A constitution dt removes immunity
2. A constitution dt allow u remit your account quarterly or less
3. A constitution dt kills u if u embezzle
4. One dt submits your assets auditing before and after office
5. One dt allow u removed if d masses say u fail them
****
my friend, dt alone, will make u a better person without choice. Biliv me. No one wanted to do it right. We need to be forced.

And who is going to enforce administer these changes? The same crooked and lawless people with no moral sense?
Our problem is not laws or constitution,it's more about our decayed moral and disregard for the same constitution you are clamoring for.

It makes no sense .to keep making laws that at the endow the day you are still going to ignore and trash because of your crooked and lawless ways.

Crawl before you walk. Charity begins at home so clean up yourself first before assuming the moral position to tell people what to do.

There are laws against every criminal acts that's troubling Nigeria, but because of our bad and criminal ways, how many have we enforced? How many looters are in jail.

Fashola is a wise man, listen to him.

SamAfrik:
Pls make your own contribution and leave "bigots" alone. BTW I think katsumoto is one of the most intelligent personalities on NL, his arguments are always structured and objective.

Thanks

coded guy: We keep going around doing the same things in diff ways and expect change. This contraption called Nigeria is not working and needs to be re engineered.

Fasholas postulating towards an attitudinal change is quite impossible in the Nigerian context as we have been bstardize since time immemorial by both the miltary and politicians that it would be hard to achieve that, unless he has a magic wand that will translate every Nigerians attitude on a fixed day, say 25th oct all Nigerians attitude would be aligned to good honest God fearing characters. His position is neither here nor there. Which Nigerian does not know we need attitudinal change yet we still almost always choose the wrong thing or try to influence what shud not rightly to us to come to us.

I think Obi's position is something we can work on and fine tune to suit everyone. What's wrong with Igbo race controlling their land and resource and every other region do same, if that is done then each region can decide to run whatever minor constitution they deem fit. If the igbo people decide to have a million states it would be their business because the would also be controlling their resource and paying a certain amount to the federal govt. Fashola can then engineer his attitudinal change in the SW.

My problem whenever these discussions are going on the north always seem to be quiet and there is something like a referendum which thwy can not be ignored, they take a stand that scuttles everything.

I stand with Obi on this!

Unfortunately, you can not achieve what obi suggested without first doing what fashola suggested. That's the truth about your country.

Policewoman: You sound so naive. How many Yorubas are in the army compared to the Northerners? Have the Youba led any coup in the country before? At least the east and North have. If you have nothing better to say, please go to sleep.

This is a good testimony to the fact that Hausa and Igbo destroyed independent government of this country and that subsequent impacts of national policy to the ndigbos stemmed from this exhibition of pride and chest beating on the January 66 coup.

Eko Ile:

Unfortunately, you can not achieve what obi suggested without first doing what fashola suggested. That's the truth about your country.

Nna, na dis kind catch-22 wey dey keep me awake at nights, my brother. So how do we get out of this round box without divine intervention, if we can't wait for the decades it could take to do what Fashola suggests before we start making constitutional changes?

Let Christians pray to God, Moslems pray to God, people of other religions consult their gods, and atheists....(u people are on your own). God will see us through this mess, we shall be great one again.

naptu2:

Lagos has a high level of traffic accidents, therefore the government has set up road safety clubs in public schools to teach people basic road safety at an early age (remember, we've got laws regarding zebra crossings, but how many people obey them? How many people even know what a zebra crossing is? Is it enough to have the law? Don't you need behavioural change to ensure that the law is effective?). They've also set up a drivers institute, to make sure that people are properly trained before they get behind the wheels.

This is why I have always advocated that we need to teach civics in our schools. I don't want to type too much, I'll go find my civics post and repost it here.

Excellent response!

State creation has never solved any Nigerian problem execept swell the political class so I'll pass on that. Real change starts from within a individual, that's why there's d saying "If you want to change the world/Nigeria start with yourself".

Adequate Education and Enforcement of existing laws will ensure that attitudinal change in no time. Pick out scapegoats and deal with them in the full glare of their followers. Annointing also flows from the top so our leaders have their roles to play in realizing all this than paying lip service.

Eko Ile:

Unfortunately, you can not achieve what obi suggested without first doing what fashola suggested. That's the truth about your country.

How long would Fasholas' attitudinal change campaign last before we. Achieve the required level of the expected attitudinal change.

All groups cannot come to the table with the same attitude of "we believe we all on the same thougt level" it is those differences and selfishness that everyone will bring to the table for discusson and to find a way of compromising.

Whose attitude does Fashola thinks he wants to change? All the leaders are not even on the same moral attitudinal wavelenght, are they the ones that would start orientating.

-
I believe the Zonal federating units will be a good choice. It would be easier for the yoruba region to agree on how to move forward as a region than to foster what they thing is right when the Hausa and igbo man don't agree with their formular and vice versa. Let the SE forge their course for themselves.

Like I said, the North don't seem to be contribution much to the debate.

-f Clarke is clamouring for resource control I don't blame him, the north might see this as a conspiration to get them outer th equation, which ever way we need to talk and griviances addressed instead of trying to change my attitude when I feel the contraption is skewed to favour me negatively.

Katsumoto:

I think Nigeria needs a WELL-INTENTIONED dictator.

This is what I thought previously, but I can't ignore the questions that crop up.

1) How do you know that the dictator is benevolent? I've experienced many coups in Nigeria and they are usually greeted with jubilation. Yet, most times, the dictator turns out to be a disappointment (you don't get to hear the dictator debate before hand, most times you don't know his track record. You didn't select him). Some people are well intentioned when they get to power, but absolute power corrupts.

2) How do you determine who will succeed the dictator. Nigerians are very ambitious people. In a democracy you have an idea of when the president is going to leave the stage. If you've got a dictator and people who are hungry for power and feel that they should be next in turn (either individually, or their ethnic group) yet they don't know when the dictator will leave, you could have a recipe for trouble.

3) Strength. If the dictator is not forceful enough people will think he's weak and try to take advantage of him. If he is forceful, people will complain about human rights abuse.

However, having lived during the WAI era, I still hope that we can find a way around these problems.

By the way, let's remember that Fashola did not say we should not have constitutional review, neither did he say attitudinal change should come first. Both could go hand in hand.

Whitehorse:
Thats a cargo cult idea, no offense meant. How can you tell a well intentioned dictator from an evil intentioned one?

naptu2:

This is what I thought previously, but I can't ignore the questions that crop up.

1) How do you know that the dictator is benevolent? I've experienced many coups in Nigeria and they are usually greeted with jubilation. Yet, most times, the dictator turns out to be a disappointment (you don't get to hear the dictator debate before hand, most times you don't know his track record. You didn't select him). Some people are well intentioned when they get to power, but absolute power corrupts.

2) How do you determine who will succeed the dictator. Nigerians are very ambitious people. In a democracy you have an idea of when the president is going to leave the stage. If you've got a dictator and people who are hungry for power and feel that they should be next in turn (either individually, or their ethnic group) yet they don't know when the dictator will leave, you could have a recipe for trouble.

3) Strength. If the dictator is not forceful enough people will think he's weak and try to take advantage of him. If he is forceful, people will complain about human rights abuse.

However, having lived during the WAI era, I still hope that we can find a way around these problems.

Unfortunately, the citizenry can't choose dictators.

To forestall any forceful intervention by a dictator, whether well intentioned or evil, society should regulate itself to ensure that more positive societal outcomes exist than negative. In any case, a well intentioned dictator (Buhari) can also be deposed by an evil intentioned dictator (IBB) when the society rejects policy that is intentioned to encourage positive societal outcomes.

P.S I know some of you don't like Buhari, please focus on the point rather than the individual. I use Buhari because it is MY opinion that he was/is a good man. No need for a debate on that.

The stark reality is that if Nigeria does not become a progressive society, it will eventually become a failed state. A natural correction will occur at some point; when, we don't know. That is the evolution of society.

coded guy:

How long would Fasholas' attitudinal change campaign last before we. Achieve the required level of the expected attitudinal change.

All groups cannot come to the table with the same attitude of "we believe we all on the same thougt level" it is those differences and selfishness that everyone will bring to the table for discusson and to find a way of compromising.

Whose attitude does Fashola thinks he wants to change? All the leaders are not even on the same moral attitudinal wavelenght, are they the ones that would start orientating.

-
I believe the Zonal federating units will be a good choice. It would be easier for the yoruba region to agree on how to move forward as a region than to foster what they thing is right when the Hausa and igbo man don't agree with their formular and vice versa. Let the SE forge their course for themselves.

Like I said, the North don't seem to be contribution much to the debate.

-f Clarke is clamouring for resource control I don't blame him, the north might see this as a conspiration to get them outer th equation, which ever way we need to talk and griviances addressed instead of trying to change my attitude when I feel the contraption is skewed to favour me negatively.

It did not take too long for WAI to gain ground and change nigerians. Give us a Moses and we will get get to that promise land in no time..

ndu_chucks:

Nna, na dis kind catch-22 wey dey keep me awake at nights, my brother. So how do we get out of this round box without divine intervention, if we can't wait for the decades it could take to do what Fashola suggests before we start making constitutional changes?

Let Christians pray to God, Moslems pray to God, people of other religions consult their gods, and atheists....(u people are on your own). God will see us through this mess, we shall be great one again.

No divine intervention is needed. Nigerians must help themselves. It is as simple as that. We concentrate power inordinately in the Presidency and Federal Government. It is how it is for now. We might as well use pragmatism to take advantage of what we have to get what we want.

The turn around of Nigeria will begin when we shun all forms of gambling and reject sentiments to support a proven performer to become President. Presidents/heads of States can do and undo. That is what our Nations politics has been bastardized to become since the incursion of the Military into our politics. The influence of the military still permeates and define our politics today.

We must all remember that Individuals (IBB, Shagari, Abacha, OBJ et al) 'flipped the script' to make issues essentially about corruption, indolence, cronyism and nepotism everywhere. They bastardized average ethos to leave Nigeria an arena of 'dog eat dog' within which a fragile National identity was virtually destroyed leaving in its place a neanderthal zeal to grab as much 'cake' as possible for 'you and yours'.

So also it will be an Individual, occupying the highest office, who will have the chance to revert thing to being about merit, nation-building and uprightness. This person will not be afraid or unprepared to lead by example. It is more difficult to tear down than to build, so I expect more difficulty birthing positive/progressive reform. Yet it can be done if we attempt to gain a President who believes in excellence and will require that of others around him.

We must therefore support a sincere, intelligent achiever and solutions provider, who intrinsically understands the basic elements of systems, to devise a plan that can neutralize what we have today. If we gain someone like this, we can expect them to genuinely seek square pegs for square holes. This, above all else, is the 'transformation element'. Seek out reformers , perhaps with proven ability to build from the ground up, and we will have reform in virtually every sector. When we gain an insincere President who 'floods' important sectors with shallow-minded, mediocre and corrupt individuals (like Andoakaa, Adoke Bello et al) then we are going nowhere and we can be here on this topic ,going around in circle, for days.

It is not Rocket Science. Just ask Ghanaians who were in our shoes not too long ago until a succession of sincere Presidents, devoted more or less to what is best for Ghana, turned things around. We cannot keep gaining men, as Presidents, devoted to protecting the status quo and expecting change. We simply have to look at viable 'case-studies' to note that many others began moving in the right direction appreciably when they gained a leader who is very sincere and determined to do what is best working , uncompromisingly, with the best as 'tools' of far-reaching and sustainable reform.

Here is my take -both are making two independent arguments, and there is no
conflict in their position as previously pointed out by some posters.

Fashola speaks like a true leader who is genuinely concerned about our state of being.
Simply put, if we must grow, our attitudes to our laws must change. Let us perfect what we have before we complicate things further with amendments and whatnots.

Eko Ile:


It did not take too long for WAI to gain ground and change nigerians. Give us a Moses and we will get get to that promise land in no time..

You are now mixing up things, you can't use WAI as an example in fostering attitudinal change in a democracy! And Moses was not a dictator, pray tell how effective is the fight against indisciine now compared with during the military era.

I believe when fashola was talking about changing our attitude he was talking about each individual doing a soul search and deciding within him/herself to now obey the laws of the land willingly. That's what I think and not to be forced.

naptu2:

This is what I thought previously, but I can't ignore the questions that crop up.

1) How do you know that the dictator is benevolent? I've experienced many coups in Nigeria and they are usually greeted with jubilation. Yet, most times, the dictator turns out to be a disappointment (you don't get to hear the dictator debate before hand, most times you don't know his track record. You didn't select him). Some people are well intentioned when they get to power, but absolute power corrupts.

2) How do you determine who will succeed the dictator. Nigerians are very ambitious people. In a democracy you have an idea of when the president is going to leave the stage. If you've got a dictator and people who are hungry for power and feel that they should be next in turn (either individually, or their ethnic group) yet they don't know when the dictator will leave, you could have a recipe for trouble.

3) Strength. If the dictator is not forceful enough people will think he's weak and try to take advantage of him. If he is forceful, people will complain about human rights abuse.

However, having lived during the WAI era, I still hope that we can find a way around these problems.

We DO NOT need a dictator, it is the response and thinking of the lazy. Nigerians need to STOP being so LAZY and get of their arses. Even with the questionable characters we have now we can work together and get things done if serious. Change doesn't normally require 100% of the population, heck 5% is even more than enough. We can't just shout 'social engineering' without the right foundations, it is something that has to be embedded in the nation. If WAI under Buhari was so sucessful in social engineering then why did it collapse pretty much once he left? Doesn't that go to show you the depth of that "change"? We need to be on the same wavelength as a country of different groups (ethnic, economic, religious, etc), and we need to have an agreement and an understanding which we never had a chance to talk about. We need a vision enshrined in a document we had some part in writing (even if indirectly), then we need to embed this in laws and teach it to our children so they know where we are coming from. That is how you get social engineering, through family, community and education.

We have a very lazy "enlightened" group. We just need Nigerians to rise to the occasion. Touting WAI as a success of social engineering is just dumb, giving that it pretty much unraveled rather quickly. So was it really social engineering or were people just afraid of getting whipped and doing frog jumps?

vandarsar: Fashola is not incorrect, and i think Obi is absolutely brilliant too. Meanwhile if you take your time to read that article very well, you'll agree with me what caused the row is because Fashola is a technocrat, while obi is a Politician to the core, a nationalist for that matter. Better still we could say Fashola is an embodiment of Mandela-like believes while Obi is a Mugabe. Listen Igbos, in this war of word you directing to Yorubas, you will never win. I can tell this is far becoming something of word of war, and we will declare another civil war on you. Yoruba aint ya problem, you are!!!

^^^^
@Vandarsar.
With people like you in Nigeria, i really lose hope!
Here we are, having an intelligent discussion and all you can offer is the above?
I'm sick and tired of your sort in NL. People like you leave a sour taste in the mouth, talking like a \re\tar\ded\ 3 year old...

And yes, i'm Igbo, born and bred in Lagos, have inlaws in SE, SW and SS. I dont not take kindly to people like you. Now get off this thread and go join your fellow \re\tar\ds elsewhere!