toba:

^^^

I've been trying to access Nairaland from my laptop. No dice. I'm not sure why. Anyone else having that problem?

I wanted to post the closing comment on the current discussion from there. It would be a bit more difficult using my phone. I'll get to it later on my phone though.

Proverbs 31:10-31King James Version (KJV)

10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.

11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.

14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.

15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.

16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.

17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.

18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.

19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.

20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.

21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.

22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.

23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.

24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.

26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.

27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.

30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.

31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

The virtuous woman is what the Proverbs 31 woman is called. She is nothing short of amazing. And she is powerful, economically speaking. The Bible does not mince words in describing her economic ability. This woman "perceiveth that her merchandise is good". She's got everything planned and everyone provided for. Her husband does not lose sleep over the well-being of his household. He is confident in her ability to take care of the house.

But you need to note too that he "is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land". That is a very significant statement. Back in Bible times when this proverb was written, city councils were held at the gates of the city and there were prominent "statesmen" known as the elders of the land whose words were held in high esteem. A council held without them meant very little indeed. And this woman's husband is numbered among them. This tidbit is so important that if you don't get it, you'll ruin the whole economic rights issue.

One example of such a man was Boaz, King David's great-grandfather (Ruth 4:13-17). You'll note that he was a stupendously wealthy man as well as a wise and kind man. You'll need to read the whole book of Ruth (it's a short book of four chapters, never fear) to really get why he is called wise here. Another example was Job whose testimony of himself was that he was a colossus among his people. We all know that Job was the wealthiest man among his people and the most righteous too. Whether he was a fictitious character or not actually doesn't matter, what matters is the concept that people of those times held in their minds about the elders in the gates and Job was wealthy, wise and a defender of the weak (Job 29:7-25). The general characteristics of men who sat in the gates among the elders and were known, that is, respected and held in high esteem, were that they were not men of meagre means; they were wise and they were defenders of the weak.

This is the sort of man to whom the Proverbs 31 woman is seen to be married. Do you see why it makes no sense that increased financial ability for a man should translate into idle consumptiveness for his wife? The Proverbs 31 woman is said to not eat the bread of idleness. She knows how to manage and, wait for it, increase her hubby's wealth.

If you are getting a bit impatient now and wondering where we start talking about rights, hold your horses just a bit longer, please. You see, rights are only one side of a coin whose other side is responsibility. Remove responsibility and it isn't right that we are talking about, it's just abuse.

Having said that, it is obvious that the Bible takes for granted that the woman is free to pursue her economic interests. The thing to note here is that these interests are not in isolation from her responsibilities as the mother of a home and wife of a man. You can see how the two are woven together. The husband's heart "doth safely trust in her". He's not afraid for the condition of the finances of his house. He knows that wifey can handle and is handling them just fine. She's "considering businesses and buying them or into them", she's making good merchandise, she's not wasting time on idle chitchat, rather she's finding new opportunities to expand the family's holdings. In those times of need, she doesn't worry because her house is well provided for. All her work and endeavor ensures that the wealth that her husband brings in is not only put to good use but it is even further increased.

Obviously, this kind of woman would put a lot of the women who rip their homes apart because of a career to shame. This is because she's obvioualy achieving what they want to achieve and keeping her marriage and a sublime home into the bargain.

Yes, the question does arise whether every man can be like the Proverbs 31 man. They sure can but they aren't all like him. Like this amazing Proverbs 31 woman, he too is hard to find. But it takes a man like him for a woman like her to blossom. Consider it, whatever may be said about gender inequality and whatnot, hardly any serious player in any sector of an economy would treat the wife of a powerful man shabbily because she's a woman when she tries to do business with him. She and he are one. You insult her you insult him as well.

Now, of course, women have been told by feminists today that leveraging on your husband is a weak thing to do. Girl power and all that. But the world is in the state of madness that it is today because of the confusion of roles. Feminism pretty much forbids a woman to use a man as a covering in certain situations and in others it insists that the man must be used as a covering. It's a case of schizophrenia. It is wise to pick one and leave the other: either a man is a covering to a woman or he is not. He can't be a covering when it suits her and not a covering when it doesn't.

Hard work and ambition suits women just fine. But according to the Scriptures, they should be tailored to suit her place in the home as wife and mother. And when she is unmarried, she should not be idle either. After all, the man's home is not supposed to be her finishing school. If you remember Rebecca, her industry was the proof that Abraham's servant required to know that she was the one that God had appointed for his master's son. Managing wealth is at least as challenging as making it. And managing it properly will lead to increase in it. Rebecca proved by her industry that she not only understood and respected wealth, she valued it and was driven to maintain it. She did not learn that as Isaac's wife but as Bethuel's daughter (Genesis 24:12-25).

Now there is no doubt that in this world, this current spiritual system, the rule is that the strong consume the weak so generally where men can they may deny a woman the right to develop in economic ability. That is not the way of Christ as we are seeing from the Scriptures. The woman should learn right from her father's house to appreciate wealth, to preserve it and to increase it. If she also learns to make it, no harm is done as long as she understands the separation of roles. For when both man and woman are out making wealth, nobody is building the home and raising the children to follow noble paths. As we see in Proverbs 31, this woman is carrying out commerce that covers large "geographies" but she is still vitally in touch with her home, rising very early to ensure that everyone is provided for. She sees to the needs of her children, the needs of her household staff if she has any and so on.

The woman's ability to successfully multitask is what makes all of that possible. And having a man who prices her as highly as the Proverbs 31 man does means that at the end of a day's work she doesn't feel bitter and drained because he will pamper her and restore her spirits with his sweet attentions.

We have lost a lot from closing our Bibles but in mercy the Lord is opening them up again for us. We can see now that romance can keep burning throughout marriage when roles are recognized, respected and played well. No man with any appreciation for his manly dignity will attempt to stifle the economic growth of his woman and no woman with any love for her womanhood would attempt to compete with the man from whom she derives meaning and security. Also, no man would leave the earth without ensuring properly that his wife will not be exploited in his absence.


For Your Word given in such great mercy and sympathy, we thank You, Father and ask that according to Your Word You may cause us to walk in it without wavering. Thank You, Father for hearing us. Amen.

---

The passage quoted is thanks to bukatyne who posted it in a conversation we were having.

Ceasar1:

RedClay?
#LW
Going Cool huh..
What about Frost? You left the Forum?

LW..? Bonding huh?
Frost is boring. I still visit though.
Been quiet busy. You Okay?.

ihedinobi2:

Note: the action of accepting or yielding to...the will or authority of another person.

Submission is as much a deliberate choice as it can be forced.




I imagine that for both of them to agree to make the son's choice the tie-breaker, one of them had to come up with the idea, right? If one of them did, the other by agreeing submitted, did they not?

lol.....


Lying for christ again?

You have selectively remixed "submission" to mean "agreement"


In the example I gave, the couple negotiated and agreed on a decision. That is very different from submission.

texanomaly:

Let’s look at your definition…

The key words are accept and yield…

Then it says to a superior force or authority. I’ll deal with accept and yield first.

ac•cept
[ak-sept]

verb (used with object)

1.
to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor: to accept a present; to accept aproposal.
2.
to agree or consent to; accede to: to accept a treaty; to accept an apology.
3.
to respond or answer affirmatively to: to accept an invitation.
4.
to undertake the responsibility, duties, honors, etc., of: to accept the office of president.
5.
to receive or admit formally, as to a college or club.

yield
[yeeld]

verb (used with object)
1.
to give forth or produce by a natural process or in return for cultivation: This farm yields enough fruitto meet all our needs.
2.
to produce or furnish (payment, profit, or interest): a trust fund that yields ten percent interest annually;That investment will yield a handsome return.
3.
to give up, as to superior power or authority: They yielded the fort to the enemy.
4.
to give up or surrender (oneself): He yielded himself to temptation.
5.
to give up or over; relinquish or resign: to yield the floor to the senator from Ohio.

If you will look at the bolded, they are not all negative connotations. Attitude and intention are the deciding factors in this case. One does not need to feel oppressed by another’s authority if one believes in the validity of that authority. Biblically speaking, the man is the authority in the home and for the family. If we are going by biblical standards, then we submit, or recognize such authority.





I believe I’ve already shown that submission is not always a bad thing.

Ephesians 5:22-28 (KJV)
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25[b] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.[/b]

The Bible does say to submit to your husband in everything. It also cautions husbands, and tells them how to treat their wives. If husband and wife follow the teachings of Christ, they will both present themselves unblemished on the last day.





The Bible does not say the wife cannot discuss her opinions with the husband. It does not say she cannot try to reason with her husband or discuss problems. It says he is the authority. Yes we must respect his decisions, and he is the final decider.

If a husband and wife love each other as they love the Lord, they have the wisest and most just conciliare in each other.

.......remind me again, arent you divorced?

smh... I seem not to know my way round Nl anymore.

TheBigUrban2:


.......remind me again, arent you divorced?

Yes, I am. I said if a husband and wife love each other as they love the Lord, they have the wisest and most just conciliare in each other. You have no idea what happened in my marriage, so please don't mock a situation you know nothing about.

texanomaly:

Yes, I am. I said if a husband and wife love each other as they love the Lord, they have the wisest and most just conciliare in each other. You have no idea what happened in my marriage, so please don't mock a situation you know nothing about.

I understand. Divorce aint easy.

dagr8: TheBigUrban2...please mind your posts. This is so inappropriate

WHAT?

You must be joking. What is inappropriate? Please point it out or remain a dubious liar.

#liars for Jesus

N.kem88 AKA Troyjay1...what do yo want us to do with your post

Enjoy your butthurt troyjay1 aka .

It is Seun's forum.

When I was getting banned left and right by your fellow mods, no one did anything.

dagr8:
I expect you to be mature enough to know...if not I know where to class you

Would have been simpler and more effective to show me where I was inappropriate,....however, as you very well know that you were lying, you couldnt

TroyJay1:

Their accounts weren't banned. They were either deactivated or blocked because he didn't like that they complained after he removed Nkem's dp. If having a dp is now against the rules, show me which rule.

TroyJay1:

I can multitask.

Great! So you're watching the match, right?

TroyJay1:

yup, supporting holland

lol...Iam on the other side, let's see how it goes

TroyJay1:

why

I want Europe/S.american final and europe/s.american third place