Image123:

Trained and conditioned to detest with passion, what is this? You want to make trouble when trhere is none? What do you intend to achieve by this? sofri sofri oh. You're willing to knock two or more believers heads together for what?

The stock and trade of the mixed multitude is to sow seeds of discord among brethren.

The monetary tithe requirement is seeds of discord.

We are trying to bring people out of that false doctrine that places them in the same lot with the unrighteous.


1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Timothy 1:8-10 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Since the only tithes revealed to us in the Word of God are the tithes of the spoils of war, and the tithes of crops and livestock, the monetary tithe is indeed "contrary to sound doctrine."

DrummaBoy:

That quote by Voltaire indicts tithe collectors more.

It is simply saying that when money matters arise, even Christians are ready to behave like unbelievers to get it. 'Get money or die trying' is the attitude here.

Is it possible that OLAADEGBU and other tithe advocates on this thread will behave like Jesus whose attitude to money was so non challant he made a theif his treasurer? Can your churches run without tithes and offering? Apparently no! And your master ran ministry without them.

Read Voltaire again: HE INDICTS YOU!!!

Let's leave Voltaire alone and focus on Judas Iscariot who made the same claim you anti tithers make.

[1] "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. [2] There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. [3] Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. [4] Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, [5] Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein" (John 12:1-6).

You can see from this passage that there is nothing new under the sun. The spirit of Judas Iscariot, that hides under the camouflage of "care for the poor" but their real intention is covetousness. They claim to be fighting for the cause of the poor but it is their bellies they are fighting for. They detest the mention of tithes but wouldn't hesitate to ask for offerings, collections or contributions. Who do you think you are deceiving? Except those who have deliberately rejected the truth.

Judas Iscariot indicts you.

OLAADEGBU:

Let's leave Voltaire alone and focus on Judas Iscariot who made the same claim you anti tithers make.

[1] "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. [2] There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. [3] Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. [4] Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, [5] Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein" (John 12:1-6).

You can see from this passage that there is nothing new under the sun. The spirit of Judas Iscariot, that hides under the camouflage of "care for the poor" but their real intention is covetousness. They claim to be fighting for the cause of the poor but it is their bellies they are fighting for. They detest the mention of tithes but wouldn't hesitate to ask for offerings, collections or contributions. Who do you think you are deceiving? Except those who have deliberately rejected the truth.

Judas Iscariot indicts you.

Comparing us with Judas Iscariat is quite wrong. For one, we truly care about the poor while Judas did not.

Bidam:

These folks always use the same old recycled boring arguments.Who gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater?

Paul in his arguments about support to the ministry did not even use money as an analogy.He quoted the mosaic law

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

13 Do you not know that those men who are employed in the services of the temple get their food from the temple? And that those who tend the altar share with the altar [in the offerings brought]?

14 [On the same principle] the Lord directed that those who publish the good news (the Gospel) should live (get their maintenance) by the Gospel.

Let them keep fooling themselves.

Good point. Paul quoted the Mosaic Law, he also quoted our Lord Jesus Christ when he said "the labourer is worthy of his reward" (1 Tim.5:18). The anti tithers would pretend not to see those parallels.

Mark Miwerds:

The thing is, I would be more than happy to tithe if someone can tell me which tither(s) in the Bible I should emulate in tithing.

I searched for tithers in the Bible and only found a few instances.

1. Abram (Genesis 14)
2. The Israelites (Leviticus 27:30-34; Numbers 18:21-28; Deuteronomy 12:5; Deuteronomy 14:22-29: Nehemiah 10:37-38; & 2 Chronicles 31:1-5.
3. The Pharisees (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42) *note: The Pharisees are actually Israelites so technically only two groups that I could pattern my tithe after.

Anyone want to tell me which one?

1. Abram.

OLAADEGBU:

1. Abram.

In that case if and when we go to war and we come out victorious we would remember to give a tithe of our booty to any priest that meets us on the way and blesses us with bread and wine. until then it's not practicable possible to follow Abram's example that's aside from the fact that neither the Jews nor christians are instructed to follow this example of Abram.

OLAADEGBU:

Most skeptics on this board that I know are anti tithers.



Don't be invidious. You don't have to stir up animosity and ill will among brethren, leave that to devil, unless you are his advocate.



How does giving my tithe tend to greed and covetousness? As I said earlier; It is the wallet that is the final frontier to be conquered, the last thing that comes to God in surrender. Sacrilege is dangerous to your health.

Phew!!! That must have taken plenty energy. Congratulations. Now that you've exhaled and let it all out, I trust you can take a breather now abi?

Cheers

Image123:

Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
The Bible is useful to instruct the christian and is profitable for doctrine and instruction. i expect the usual ridiculous scenario questions as this cannot be challenged.

Meat or Bread signifies work, provision or income. It is not confined to agric produce or beef. We still pray for God to give us our daily bread, even children understand that. Theologists would strain at the gnat. Abraham gave tithes of all, so also did the pharisee. God is not complaining.

bros, y do u dishonestly remove mal4:4?

Mark Miwerds:

The monetary tithe requirement is seeds of discord.

We are trying to bring people out of that false doctrine that places them in the same lot with the unrighteous.


1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Timothy 1:8-10 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Since the only tithes revealed to us in the Word of God are the tithes of the spoils of war, and the tithes of crops and livestock, the monetary tithe is indeed "contrary to sound doctrine."

You need fresh glasses to see that tithes and offerings have not been abrogated. Paul used the law to bring the knowledge of sin. Folks will have little or no difficulties only if they learnt the lesson of the Law. Let's see how Paul used the Law in the following verses:

"You therefore which teach another, do you not teach yourself? you that preach a man should not steal do you steal? You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?"

(Romans 2:21-22).

When you eat that which belongs to God you commit sacrilege. Tithes and offerings belong to God, don't commit sacrilege by robbing God.

Mark Miwerds:

Comparing us with Judas Iscariat is quite wrong. For one, we truly care about the poor while Judas did not.

I remember that I heard that before.

OLAADEGBU:

1. Abram.

OK, Abram it is then.

Next rescue mission I go on, (though I do not have 318 servants) should I win the battle, I will give a king a tenth of the spoils as Abram did.

Pastor Kun:

In that case if and when we go to war and we come out victorious we would remember to give a tithe of our booty to any priest that meets us on the way and blesses us with bread and wine. until then it's not practicable possible to follow Abram's example that's aside from the fact that neither the Jews nor christians are instructed to follow this example of Abram.

Those who are not children of Abraham are not obliged to follow his example of tithing, its only the children's responsibility.

OLAADEGBU:

You need fresh glasses to see that tithes and offerings have not been abrogated. Paul used the law to bring the knowledge of sin. Folks will have little or no difficulties only if they learnt the lesson of the Law. Let's see how Paul used the Law in the following verses:

(Romans 2:21-22).

When you eat that which belongs to God you commit sacrilege. Tithes and offerings belong to God, don't commit sacrilege by robbing God.

you say the tithe was not abrogated. Tell me then, where God amended the crops and livestock tithe to a tithe of money?

Is that in the first or second book of Vain Imagination?

Candour:

Phew!!! That must have taken plenty energy. Congratulations. Now that you've exhaled and let it all out, I trust you can take a breather now abi?

Cheers

Not after giving you a parallel of your case.

"And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him Rabbi, when did you come here? Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say to you, You seek me, not because you saw the miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled. [b]Labour not for the meat which perishes, but for the meat which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give to you: for him God the Father sealed[b]" (John 6:25-27).

On your next trip to the retreat ground, make sure the bolded stays on your mind and labour for the meat which doesn't perish.

Mark Miwerds:

OK, Abram it is then.

Next rescue mission I go on, (though I do not have 318 servants) should I win the battle, I will give a king a tenth of the spoils as Abram did.

Give it to Jesus if He is your Lord. He is the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. (Heb.7:17).

Mark Miwerds:

you say the tithe was not abrogated. Tell me then, where God amended the crops and livestock tithe to a tithe of money?

Is that in the first or second book of Vain Imagination?

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes"

(2 Timothy 2:23).

OLAADEGBU:

Give it to Jesus if He is your Lord. He is the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. (Heb.7:17).

This means that I can give it to anyone (not necessarily a pastor of a Church)

"Inasmuch as ye did it unto the least of these my brethren ye have done it unto me"

OLAADEGBU:

(2 Timothy 2:23).

So you have no Scripture that teaches the tithe you say was not abrogated was amended to the monetary tithe you now preach and teach, you just present it as if it is truth.

I see.

OLAADEGBU:

Not after giving you a parallel of your case.

"And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him Rabbi, when did you come here? Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say to you, You seek me, not because you saw the miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled. [b]Labour not for the meat which perishes, but for the meat which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give to you: for him God the Father sealed[b]" (John 6:25-27).

On your next trip to the retreat ground, make sure the bolded stays on your mind and labour for the meat which doesn't perish.

You're the one chasing after God for miracles abi are you not the one trying to force God's hands with Mal 3:8-12? You are the one who labours for the meat that perisheth hence your obsession with tithes and the goodies you expect it to bring. As for me, whatever my state or station in life, I'm grateful to God for the salvation of my soul. That is what counts. I pray you realise this truth.

I preach Christ, Contentment, Modesty, Selflessness etc but you are preaching to people to use tithe as Kalo kalo to get blessed. You're the one that needs to digest this verse, not me.

Christ wants us to seek him, not on the basis of the Mosaic laws but in Spirit and in truth. He blesses me simply on the basis of his love and not on my tithing. The most important giving God wants from us is for the needy.

Jokes aside, I never heard a single message on tithe at the last retreat and all through my stay in DLBC, I cant remember hearing plenty sermons from the pulpit on tithe so it baffles me why you have made it your cardinal doctrine to pursue.

Focus on the weightier matters and stop encouraging criminality in the body of Christ.

Mark Miwerds:

This means that I can give it to anyone (not necessarily a pastor of a Church)

"Inasmuch as ye did it unto the least of these my brethren ye have done it unto me"

I said give it to Jesus, the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec if you care about Him at all.

OLAADEGBU:

I said give it to Jesus, the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec if you care about Him at all.

OK, so I wait until Jesus physically returns to the Earth, then give the tithe of the spoils to Him.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Candour:

You're the one chasing after God for miracles abi are you not the one trying to force God's hands with Mal 3:8-12? You are the one who labours for the meat that perisheth hence your obsession with tithes and the goodies you expect it to bring. As for me, whatever my state or station in life, I'm grateful to God for the salvation of my soul. That is what counts. I pray you realise this truth.

I preach Christ, Contentment, Modesty, Selflessness etc but you are preaching to people to use tithe as Kalo kalo to get blessed. You're the one that needs to digest this verse, not me.

Christ wants us to seek him, not on the basis of the Mosaic laws but in Spirit and in truth. He blesses me simply on the basis of his love and not on my tithing. The most important giving God wants from us is for the needy.

Jokes aside, I never heard a single message on tithe at the last retreat and all through my stay in DLBC, I cant remember hearing plenty sermons from the pulpit on tithe so it baffles me why you have made it your cardinal doctrine to pursue.

Focus on the weightier matters and stop encouraging criminality in the body of Christ.

You didn't hear messages on tithes and offerings because you were not a disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ who are faithful stewards. You only go to retreats to feed on the meat that perishes. Tithes and offerings of the faithfuls are meant for the propagation of the gospel which endures to eternal life. The earlier you partake of this the better so that the grace of God would not be in vain.

Mark Miwerds:

OK, so I wait until Jesus physically returns to the Earth, then give the tithe of the spoils to Him.

Thanks for clarifying that.

This response of yours confirms you as an "atheist" who doesn't believe in the existence of God.

Image123:

oh Ola, that was one embarrassment to be reminded of. Anyway, Matthew 23:23 is still in my Bible oh, the precious words of my Lord.

Yes. If our Lord Jesus Christ sanctioned tithes in Matthew 23:23 then that means that it should be followed and not abrogated.

OLAADEGBU:

You didn't hear messages on tithes and offerings because you were not a disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ who are faithful stewards. You only go to retreats to feed on the meat that perishes. Tithes and offerings of the faithfuls are meant for the propagation of the gospel which endures to eternal life. The earlier you partake of this the better so that the grace of God would not be in vain.

Wrong answer.

I didn't hear messages on tithe because they were not on the programme. Kumuyi knows better that the gospel is more than Naira and kobo so he focuses topics that have to do with the soul. You are still trying to squeeze it in there, is it that bad? Must you see tithe in everything?

And why are you so obsessed with mundane things? First money, now food? Do you pay attention to any other thing there at all?

The grace of God is bigger than retreat food so set your priorities right. Its in your best interest

Mark Miwerds:

They are not the same. Russell Kelly does indeed hold degrees:

Th. M.: Covington Theological Seminary, Ft Oglethorpe, Ga; cum laude Ph. D.: Covington Theological Seminary, Ft Oglethorpe, Ga; 2000; cum laude[15]

Russell graduated Cum Laude from Sprayberry High in 1962. From June 1962 until June 1966 he was in the U. S. A. F., received 22 semester hours in Chinese Mandarin at Yale University and was soon promoted to the Transcription Department while serving in Taiwan. Russell graduated Cum Laude from Southern Missionary College in Tennessee in 1976, now called Southern University Of Seventh Day Adventist, and served two churches in Georgia, four in North Dakota and one in South Carolina.

Although legally blind since 1989, Russell subsequently completed a Th. M.. and a Ph. D. at independent Baptist-oriented Covington Theological Seminary in Ft. Oglethorpe, Georgia in August 2000. His dissertation was on the subject of tithing. From that dissertation came his first book, Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian’s Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine. His second book is Exposing Seventh-day Adventism, published in 2005. His third book, From Gethsemane to Ascension, An Ultimate Harmony of the Gospel, Easter and Resurrection Plays, February 2008, is in conversational style.

Kelly is currently Adult Sunday School teacher at Iron Hill Baptist Church in Acworth, GA.

There is nothing "fake" about Russell at all. Call Covington Th. Sem. and ask for info on his graduation. He certainly holds the degrees that wikipedia reports him to hold.

Who said that they are not birds of the same feather? Did you not see all the degrees that Gary arnold displayed on his blog only for our viaro to uncover them as fake?

OLAADEGBU:

This response of yours confirms you as an "atheist" who doesn't believe in the existence of God.

Me an atheist? Really? I don't believe in the existence of God? Seriously?

I have only been preaching His Word since my release from prison in 1979. If I were an atheist, I would not be preaching His Word as I do.

You Sir, are working for the enemy of God's people; twisting His Word into a lie and accusing His children.

Mark Miwerds: If tithes should not be misinterpreted, why are you misinterpreting them?

The passage you referenced contradicts your monetary tithe.

Malachi 3:8-12 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

1. Who was God speaking to in this passage? It was not the New Testament Church of today? The New Testament Church had not even formed yet. Malachi's rebuke was more than four hundred years before Christ was even born.
2. What were the contents of the tithe God was referring to? It was not the tithe of money that is being taught today. (Hint: see the word MEAT for the answer)
3. What were the curses associated with not tithing? It was not cars breaking down, financial ruin, ill health, broken families, etc., that pastors preach will happen when one does not tithe.
4. What were the blessings promised to those who would tithe? It was not perfectly running vehicles, wealth increase, good health, close family bonds, etc., that pastors preach will happen when one tithes.
5. What was the devourer. It was not the car mechanic, doctor, plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc., yet pastors will constantly tell their congregations that is exactly what the devourer is.

The answer to all five questions can be seen in the verses referenced

The Word of God tells us to "Preach the Word," not opinion, nor our own desires. Pastors need to stick with what"thus saith the Lord" instead of messages formulated in the dark recesses of vain imagination.

It is obvious that in the majority of denominations today, when it comes to the teaching of tithes, there really is a famine for the hearing of the Word.

Pls kindly answer ma question
1. Did u believe or act to d words in d old testmaments?
2. If No, why ?
NB: Dnt forget that majority of pple during BC are either farmer, fisherman or cattle rearer. No banker, no geologist, accountant, businessman or software devoloper.

DrummaBoy: ^Welcome back Boomark

Thanks, DrummaBoy.

Tuntheycr7:

Pls kindly answer ma question
1. Did u believe or act to d words in d old testmaments?
2. If No, why ?
NB: Dnt forget that majority of pple during BC are either farmer, fisherman or cattle rearer. No banker, no geologist, accountant, businessman or software devoloper.

artificers of brass, tentmakers, butchers, bakers, carpenters, stonemasons; these are but a few of the occupations that were in ancient Israel. They were not all farmers, herders and fishermen.

By the way, fisherment were not required to tithe either. Their increase was from the sea.

Mark Miwerds: artificers of brass, tentmakers, butchers, bakers, carpenters, stonemasons; these are but a few of the occupations that were in ancient Israel. They were not all farmers, herders and fishermen.

By the way, fisherment were not required to tithe either. Their increase was from the sea.

Oga I thought I askd u a question?
Dtz Y sum pple failed durin exams