Your question was unintelligible.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to rephrase it?

1. Did u believe or act to d words in d old testmaments?

Mark Miwerds: Your question was unintelligible.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to rephrase it?

1. Did u [b] believe or act to d words in d old testmaments?[/b]

Your ignorance of scriptures is quite alarming for someone who is preaching since 1979.What do you think Paul meant when he said?: I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

Boomark:

I see you are talking about the principle of maintenance. How you get what you use for that maintenance is not the principle itself. That is why it say, "you shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Obviously, Paul was not talking about TITHE.

I hope all those involved in spreading the good news are beneficiaries of the maintenance principle and non of them is being cheated?

Go read the lev6:16 Paul made reference to.

Bidam: Your ignorance of scriptures is quite alarming for someone who is preaching since 1979.What do you think Paul meant when he said?: I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

I am not ignorant about Scripture at all.

I searched my KJV for "I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets."

Guess what There is no verse that says that.

Mark Miwerds: I am not ignorant about Scripture at all.

I searched my KJV for "I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets."

Guess what There is no verse that says that.

Google is your friend

Bidam: Go read the lev6:16 Paul made reference to.

Leviticus 6:16 is not about tithes... verse 15 reveals it is speaking of a meat offering.

Nice try though.

Mark Miwerds: Leviticus 6:16 is not about tithes... verse 15 reveals it is speaking of a meat offering.

Nice try though.

Quick quiz:In the OT the tithes goes to who?

Is the tithe ONLY agricultural produce?

Bidam: Quick quiz:In the OT the tithes goes to who?

Is the tithe ONLY agricultural produce?

Multiple people. Primarily to the Levites. But also to widows, orphans, and refugees in Israel.

The tithe was only agricultural produce and livestock as per Leviticus 27:30-33.

By the way, I found the verse you was trying to quote. You were using the NIV. Quite different from the KJV.

Paul did say he believed the Law and the Prophets. So what

I believe the Law and the Prophets too. The Law said the tithes were for the children of Israel. It did not say the tithe was for Gentile nations.
The Law said the tithe was to be eaten also. You continue to dismiss that fact while I believe it and preach it.

Mark Miwerds: artificers of brass, tentmakers, butchers, bakers, carpenters, stonemasons; these are but a few of the occupations that were in ancient Israel. They were not all farmers, herders and fishermen.

By the way, fisherment were not required to tithe either. Their increase was from the sea.

Any Biblical support for this claim, or is it yet another spurious claim founded on presumption?

Image123:

Any Biblical support for this claim, or is it yet another spurious claim founded on presumption?

the biblical support can be found beginning in GEnesis 4 and reading on.through many chapters.

Leviticus 27 reveals that tithes were of the seed of the ground (crops) the fruit of the trees (crops and oils) and every tenth animal of the flocks and herds that passed under the rod.

All the rest of the tithing Scriptures in the Old Testament testify to the fact that tithes were food and to be eaten.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a carpenter sawing wood is not required to tithe. Fishermen also exempt. Masons, bakers, etc., all exempt from the tithe Law because they had no crops to tithe.

Image123:
What are the ordinances, please break down the grammar. Are judgement, mercy and faith among these ordinances? Is love for one's neighbour among the ordinances. The apostles plainly taught about meats, idols, circumcision, and whatever else they saw was an hindrance to the new covenant life. Did they forget to teach against the tithe? Were there not believers who were zealous of the law? Did Paul not claim to be an observer of the law, and that beleivers should follow him?
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Do you recall the man Ananais? The man who came to see Paul after Jesus appeared to him? Hear about him oh.
Act 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
(CEV) In that city there was a man named Ananias, who faithfully obeyed the Law of Moses and was well liked by all the Jewish people living there.
You sabi pass Paul and Ananias abi?

Mark Miwerds: By the way, I found the verse you was trying to quote. You were using the NIV. Quite different from the KJV.

Paul did say he believed the Law and the Prophets. So what

I believe the Law and the Prophets too. The Law said the tithes were for the children of Israel. It did not say the tithe was for Gentile nations.
The Law said the tithe was to be eaten also. You continue to dismiss that fact while I believe it and preach it.

Notice that i already posted that verse directly to you about 24hrs ago. Yet, you first claimed to Bidam that there was no such verse before this new discovery. You are not paying attention, evidently.

Mark Miwerds: the biblical support can be found beginning in GEnesis 4 and reading on.through many chapters.

Leviticus 27 reveals that tithes were of the seed of the ground (crops) the fruit of the trees (crops and oils) and every tenth animal of the flocks and herds that passed under the rod.

All the rest of the tithing Scriptures in the Old Testament testify to the fact that tithes were food and to be eaten.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a carpenter sawing wood is not required to tithe. Fishermen also exempt. Masons, bakers, etc., all exempt from the tithe Law because they had no crops to tithe.

hahahahahaha, pathetic and yet funny. Genesis4 and reading on through many chapters? What does that even mean? Give us bible support that says that fishermen should not tithe. i do not need rocket science, just plain bible support, thanks. Don't make me conclude that ou have been presumptuously teaching for doctrine, the assumptions of men oh.

^^^ In like manner, give us one Bible passage where it says Christians should tithe money and that it should be paid into "church".

Give us one passage that says tithes cannot go to the poor or to an orphanage or to an old people's home etc!

Image123:

hahahahahaha, pathetic and yet funny. Genesis4 and reading on through many chapters? What does that even mean? Give us bible support that says that fishermen should not tithe. i do not need rocket science, just plain bible support, thanks. Don't make me conclude that ou have been presumptuously teaching for doctrine, the assumptions of men oh.

no, couldn't have me competing with you in the assumptions department. No worries though. I am not assuming.

Leviticus 27:30-33 gives the contents of God's Holy tithe. Fish were not tithed.

^^^ The funny thing is that some of our friends who have been talking about "God's tithe" have not been able to supply a biblical definition of "God's tithe".

And of course it is easy to see why: "God's tithe" is actually clearly defined in Leviticus 27 and its purposes specified in Numbers and Deuteronomy etc. What our friends are insisting upon today is nowhere to be seen in the biblical definition of "God's tithe" and at the least fails to acknowledge two of the purposes that God specified for His tithe.

The tithers claim the tithe has not been abolished. If what they claim is true, they run into some serious obstacles...

You see, according to the Word of God,

a) the children of Israel were required to pay God's Holy tithe, not Gentiles (Leviticus 27)
b) God's Holy tithe was to be given to the Levites, not pastors living in other countries (Numbers 18)
c) the tithe was crops and livestock, not money (Leviticus 27)
d) there were two tithes a year (not 26, not 52) every 1st, 2nd, 4th & 5th year in a seven year cycle (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
e) there were three tithes every 3rd & 6th year (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
f) only the Levites could bring tithes to the Temple storehouse (Nehemiah 10)
g) The feast tithe was to be eaten by the tither, his family, and the Levites in the place God chose (Deuteronomy 14)
h) the poor tithe was kept on the tither's property to feed widows, orphans, Levites, and refugees (Deuteronomy 14)
i) those who received God's Holy tithe could not own land.
j) every seventh year in a seven year cycle, the land was to rest. this means no harvesting, nor planting. no land tithe was possible.
k) The poor were not required to tithe, but rather were to recieve tithes (Deuteronomy 12; 14)

It is clear that this tithe they say was not abolished, is not observed by them. Why is that? Why is the tithe they teach contrary to the tithe that God ordained and they say was never done away with?

Mark Miwerds: The tithers claim the tithe has not been abolished. If what they claim is true, they run into some serious obstacles...

You see, according to the Word of God,

a) the children of Israel were required to pay God's Holy tithe, not Gentiles (Leviticus 27)
b) God's Holy tithe was to be given to the Levites, not pastors living in other countries (Numbers 18)
c) the tithe was crops and livestock, not money (Leviticus 27)
d) there were two tithes a year (not 26, not 52) every 1st, 2nd, 4th & 5th year in a seven year cycle (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
e) there were three tithes every 3rd & 6th year (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
f) only the Levites could bring tithes to the Temple storehouse (Nehemiah 10)
g) The feast tithe was to be eaten by the tither, his family, and the Levites in the place God chose (Deuteronomy 14)
h) the poor tithe was kept on the tither's property to feed widows, orphans, Levites, and refugees (Deuteronomy 14)
i) those who received God's Holy tithe could not own land.
j) every seventh year in a seven year cycle, the land was to rest. this means no harvesting, nor planting. no land tithe was possible.
k) The poor were not required to tithe, but rather were to recieve tithes (Deuteronomy 12; 14)

It is clear that this tithe they say was not abolished, is not observed by them. Why is that? Why is the tithe they teach contrary to the tithe that God ordained and they say was never done away with?

[b]
I'll try to answer you briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]

Enigma: ^^^ The funny thing is that some of our friends who have been talking about "God's tithe" have not been able to supply a biblical definition of "God's tithe".

And of course it is easy to see why: "God's tithe" is actually clearly defined in Leviticus 27 and its purposes specified in Numbers and Deuteronomy etc. What our friends are insisting upon today is nowhere to be seen in the biblical definition of "God's tithe" and at the least fails to acknowledge two of the purposes that God specified for His tithe.

Your lies are baseless and unfounded.This scripture in Leviticus shows that the tithe belonged to God, but much more than that, other scriptures show that everything belongs to God (Numbers 3:13, 1 Chronicles 29:14, Psalm 24:1, 50:10-12, 89:11, Ezekiel 18:4, Luke 21:1-4, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20). Therefore it is not a big thing to give back to God one tenth of what he gives to us

Oh BTW i already saw your post two years ago where you agree with wordtalk that the tithe is one-tenth, so don't bother arguing it here.

Bidam: Your lies are baseless and unfounded.....

I see it has turned into abuse. And I was not even talking to you! I will let you get away with it on this occasion ---- you might not be so lucky next time.

Mark Miwerds: By the way, I found the verse you was trying to quote. You were using the NIV. Quite different from the KJV.

Paul did say he believed the Law and the Prophets. So what

I believe the Law and the Prophets too. The Law said the tithes were for the children of Israel. It did not say the tithe was for Gentile nations.
The Law said the tithe was to be eaten also. You continue to dismiss that fact while I believe it and preach it.

And you continue to dismiss the truth that says Moses was preached in the gentile nations.Paul preached the God of the Jews to the gentiles,NOT a different God.The only problem he had with the Jews was concerning the Resurrection of Jesus and their traditions,NOTHING more.

Enigma:

I see it has turned into abuse. And I was not even talking to you! I will let you get away with it on this occasion ---- you might not be so lucky next time.

It becomes anyone's business to reply any post when posted on a public forum.Image wasn't even addressing you also to use your words. To say you lie is not an abuse Oga!! When you claim no one is able define the tithe and its purpose according to scriptures after participating in so many tithes discussions then the term best suit you. And what do you mean by not so lucky

Na you dey feed me

^^^ Don't worry, one day your cup will become full. Then, you will hear from me.

Enigma: ^^^ Don't worry, one day your cup will become full. Then, you will hear from me.

So your brother don become amorite abi? Egbon!! Enigma

swtchicgurl:
[b]
I'll try to answer you briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]

God has opened my eyes. Your worship is in vain.

Bidam: And you continue to dismiss the truth that says Moses was preached in the gentile nations.Paul preached the God of the Jews to the gentiles,NOT a different God.The only problem he had with the Jews was concerning the Resurrection of Jesus and their traditions,NOTHING more.

moses was preached to the Gentiles. Not as a standard though, for the Mosaic Law was not to be put upon the Gentiles. (Acts 15:10) gentiles were foolish to obey the Mosaic Law (Galatians 3) they would be committing spiritual adultery to submit to the Law while married to Christ (Romans 7:1-4)

Image123:
hahahahahaha,.......... Give us bible support that says that fishermen should not tithe. i do not need rocket science, just plain bible support, thanks..........

Mark Miwerds:
Leviticus 27:30-33 gives the contents of God's Holy tithe. Fish were not tithed.

Where is image123 to dispute this fact i want to believe you are no longer laughing

swtchicgurl:

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

Do you or your pastor have the authority to change God's tithe?

it's wrong to say wealth is measured in money today. It's is also wrong to say we can tithe anything. God did not instruct the Israelite to tithe anything! Can a prosti.tute tithe her income? can an armed robber tithe is his income/wealth? to arrive at what is tithe-able, you must define the tithe and that was exactly what God did Leviticus 27. He defined his tithe so the Israelites knew exactly what constitute tithe!

Fishermen don't tithe, you don't tithe if you make your living from hunting wild animals. It's very possible the Israelite also sold some of their products in the market (to fellow Israelite), yet they are not expected to tithe from sales proceed. i.e. a farmer might sell some grain to acquire other items he does not produce. Some Israelite were in paid employment (see below) and yet God did not request for a tithe of their salary/wages.

Deuteronomy 24:14-15 (NIV)
14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. 15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

If God did not request for tithe from salary, if he did not request for tithe from sales of goods and services (which most likely will come in the form of cash), on what authority do you make your claim that you can tithe anything?

Bidam:
Your lies are baseless and unfounded.This scripture in Leviticus shows that the tithe belonged to God,

The highlighted part is false gospel. You have been deceived into believing that belong to God and you want to deceive others. What tithe belong to God? is it tithe of proceeds from armed robbery? Leviticus did not show that "tithe belonged to God", instead Leviticus states that tithe of Agric produce (grain, fruit and livestock) belonged to God.

If God wanted a tithe of everything, he would have stated that a tithe of every income accruing to the Israelite belong to him, but he did not.

Bidam:
........but much more than that, other scriptures show that everything belongs to God (Numbers 3:13, 1 Chronicles 29:14, Psalm 24:1, 50:10-12, 89:11, Ezekiel 18:4, Luke 21:1-4, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20).

Everything belong to God but God did not ask for a tithe of everything. He did not ask the Israelite to tithe their gold and silver.

Bidam:
..............Therefore it is not a big thing to give back to God one tenth of what he gives to us

True it is not a big thing to give God one tenth of what he gives you, but it must be done from the heart, not as a rule. You guys preach it as a rule. The 1 Chronicles 29 you quoted (see below) shows that the people gave back out of a cheerful heart and did not consider the percentage. It does not have to be a tenth. When you give to God, he is not interested in the %, your heart is more important.

1 Chronicles 29:14-18 (NIV)
14 “But who am I, and who are my people, that we should be able to give as generously as this? Everything comes from you, and we have given you only what comes from your hand. 15 We are foreigners and strangers in your sight, as were all our ancestors. Our days on earth are like a shadow, without hope. 16 Lord our God, all this abundance that we have provided for building you a temple for your Holy Name comes from your hand, and all of it belongs to you. 17 I know, my God, that you test the heart and are pleased with integrity. All these things I have given willingly and with honest intent. And now I have seen with joy how willingly your people who are here have given to you. 18 Lord, the God of our fathers Abraham, Isaac and Israel, keep these desires and thoughts in the hearts of your people forever, and keep their hearts loyal to you.

OLAADEGBU:

Let's leave Voltaire alone and focus on Judas Iscariot who made the same claim you anti tithers make.

[1] "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. [2] There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. [3] Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. [4] Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, [5] Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein" (John 12:1-6).

You can see from this passage that there is nothing new under the sun. The spirit of Judas Iscariot, that hides under the camouflage of "care for the poor" but their real intention is covetousness. They claim to be fighting for the cause of the poor but it is their bellies they are fighting for. They detest the mention of tithes but wouldn't hesitate to ask for offerings, collections or contributions. Who do you think you are deceiving? Except those who have deliberately rejected the truth.

Judas Iscariot indicts you.

So this your honest comparison? What you wrote shows how far you can go to defend falsehood. Well, let me teach you how to be an honest Christian.

Jesus represents the poor(I hope you remember they are "the least of his brother". All he does is for them, he healed them, he feed them, he gave them hope, all of them.

And Judas(your role model) is the purse bearer. And he represents those collecting and keeping tithe money who has no regard for the poor but their own pocket even when they have abundance. "they bare the bag and what was put theirin." to these things, there is no contention.

You, Olaadegbu, a follower of Judas isariot, is here pointing accusing fingers on those who bare no purse, those teaching you to follow Christ with humility before him and before Man. See how you failed. Go and learn how to learn things that are true. Your judgement is clouded by doctrines of men.
SMH!!!

OLAADEGBU:

Let's leave Voltaire alone and focus on Judas Iscariot who made the same claim you anti tithers make.

[1] "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. [2] There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. [3] Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. [4] Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, [5] Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein" (John 12:1-6).

You can see from this passage that there is nothing new under the sun. The spirit of Judas Iscariot, that hides under the camouflage of "care for the poor" but their real intention is covetousness. They claim to be fighting for the cause of the poor but it is their bellies they are fighting for. They detest the mention of tithes but wouldn't hesitate to ask for offerings, collections or contributions. Who do you think you are deceiving? Except those who have deliberately rejected the truth.

Judas Iscariot indicts you.

So this your honest comparison? What you wrote shows how far you can go to defend falsehood. Well, let me teach you how to be an honest Christian.

Jesus represents the poor(I hope you remember they are "the least of his brother". All he does is for them, he healed them, he feed them, he gave them hope, all of them.

And Judas(your role model) is the purse bearer. And he represents those collecting and keeping tithe money who has no regard for the poor but their own pocket even when they have abundance. "they bare the bag and what was put theirin." to these things, there is no contention.

You, Olaadegbu, a follower of Judas isariot, is here pointing accusing fingers on those who bare no purse, those teaching you to follow Christ with humility before him and before Man. See how you failed. Go and learn how to learn things that are true. Your judgement is clouded by doctrines of men.
SMH!!!

Boomark:

So this your honest comparison? What you wrote shows how far you can go to defend falsehood. Well, let me teach you how to be an honest Christian.

Jesus represents the poor(I hope you remember they are "the least of his brother". All he does is for them, he healed them, he feed them, he gave them hope, all of them.

And Judas(your role model) is the purse bearer. And he represents those collecting and keeping tithe money who has no regard for the poor but their own pocket even when they have abundance. "they bare the bag and what was put theirin." to these things, there is no contention.

You, Olaadegbu, a follower of Judas isariot, is here pointing accusing fingers on those who bare no purse, those teaching you to follow Christ with humility before him and before Man. See how you failed. Go and learn how to learn things that are true. Your judgement is clouded by doctrines of men.
SMH!!!

Boomark:

So this your honest comparison? What you wrote shows how far you can go to defend falsehood. Well, let me teach you how to be an honest Christian.

Jesus represents the poor(I hope you remember they are "the least of his brother". All he does is for them, he healed them, he feed them, he gave them hope, all of them.

And Judas(your role model) is the purse bearer. And he represents those collecting and keeping tithe money who has no regard for the poor but their own pocket even when they have abundance. "they bare the bag and what was put theirin." to these things, there is no contention.

You, Olaadegbu, a follower of Judas isariot, is here pointing accusing fingers on those who bare no purse, those teaching you to follow Christ with humility before him and before Man. See how you failed. Go and learn how to learn things that are true. Your judgement is clouded by doctrines of men.
SMH!!!

Why all the stammering? Calm down. You need to become a child of Abraham in the first place before you start talking about tithes and offerings. Don't put the cart before the horse.