Image123:

No fight at all on Enigma.
You just told me to go and sell all my possessions. If no, then sorry i misunderstood you.
i'm aware that Alwaystrue and co have replied you on that passage. Confirm that ou require extra explanation on the passage?

OK, and I too apologise for my tone; I could have easily been much softer.

Oh no, I do not for myself require an explanation of the 'go sell all and give to the poor' passage.

The way I treat these discussions is that of each side putting down their ideas and people reading, seekers, confused people etc will have different perspectives to take into account.

Now I expect that if someone reading the thread is told that tithing is obligatory because of 'bring all the tithe' s/he will also have the presence of mind to think or even ask why giving all to the poor is not also obligatory because of 'go sell all and give it to the poor'.

Image123:

All have sinned and come short of God's glory. What we need is grace, not logic meant at puncturing holes into scriptures.

you're right.

so do well to apply the grace of God and come to the truth that stipulating 10% is not of grace but of the law

Candour:

you're right.

so do well to apply the grace of God and come to the truth that stipulating 10% is not of grace but of the law

Grace helps us to obey God.

Image123:

Grace helps us to obey God.

You're right on that bro.

Enigma:


Now I expect that if someone reading the thread is told that tithing is obligatory because of 'bring all the tithe' s/he will also have the presence of mind to think or even ask why giving all to the poor is not also obligatory because of 'go sell all and give it to the poor'.

i present the Bring ye ALL the tithe with the perspective that ALL the tithe is presentable, and folks gave tithe of non agric produce without restrain or rejection. i'm not presenting it from the perspective of forcing anyone to give.

Mark Miwerds:

Abram did not "pay tithes." Why do you lie against the Word as you do?

Abraham gave tithes, since you insist on semantics.

"And as I may so say, Levi also, who receive tithes, paid tithes in Abraham"

(Hebrews 7:9).

Do you also want to insist that it was Abram and not Abraham?

Image123:

No fight at all on Enigma.
You just told me to go and sell all my possessions. If no, then sorry i misunderstood you.
i'm aware that Alwaystrue and co have replied you on that passage. Confirm that ou require extra explanation on the passage?

Are you not a hypocrite?

Jesus told the man to sell all he had and give to the poor the same way he acknowledged that the pharisees pay their tithe. Now you are looking for the 1st Christian that will sell all he has and give to the poor, but you will be quick to force Christians to pay tithe because Jesus said it. As if it was not Jesus who said the former.

Thanks Enigma for exposing him.

Boomark:

Twister! At least you did not call me anti-Abraham this time.

"And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

(Galatians 3:29).

Are you Abraham's spiritual seed by any means?

Boomark:

Did you not see where i said you should follow Christ not Abraham? Don't you know the difference between following Abraham's faith and following Abraham as a role model?

"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that the righteousness might be imputed to them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised"

(Romans 4:11-12).

If you claim to follow Christ you will not kick against the precedence left by Abraham in giving tithes.

Boomark:

It seems you did not even pay attention to the Galatians you quoted. It says that those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham. Abraham(imperfect man) became our father as a result of the promise but not the one we must follow. Christ is perfect. Olaadegbu! Follow Christ.

Do you even believe in the deity of Christ? The day you stopped using the "Awake" magazine as your bible study tool would be the day you will begin to understand the verses I quoted above.

Boomark:

May be i should engage myself in hunting down your lies. You are misleading a lot of people.

You should rather get rid of all the lies that the JWs have deposited in you before you start to look for the lies in other folks message.

Boomark:
It seems you did not even pay attention to the Galatians you quoted. It says that those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham. Abraham(imperfect man) became our father as a result of the promise but not the one we must follow. Christ is perfect. Olaadegbu! Follow Christ.

You don't understand. Ola is not following anybody. He is actually following the tithe! Ola cannot follow Christ because there is no tithe attached!

Image123:
Bring ye ALL the tithe.

All the tithe of what? will your pastor accept my neighbor's tithe of indian hemp harvested from his farm?

Boomark:

Are you not a hypocrite?

Jesus told the man to sell all he had and give to the poor the same way he acknowledged that the pharisees pay their tithe. Now you are looking for the 1st Christian that will sell all he has and give to the poor, but you will be quick to force Christians to pay tithe because Jesus said it. As if it was not Jesus who said the former.

Thanks Enigma for exposing him.

Proverbs 26:17 He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.

Mark Miwerds: I pointed to Genesis 4 in an attempt to show you that there were other occupations besides farming and herding. Tubalcain was a teacher who taught people how to work with brass. Noah (chapter 6) was a carpenter before the flood Yet no mention of either of these ever paying, or even giving tithes to anyone.

Later chapters in Genesis reveal tentmakers, bakers, butchers, brickmasons, and many other occupations. None of which are said to have paid, or even given, tithes.

None, that is, except Abram, and the farmers and herders of ancient Israel. Who, of course, is never said to have tithed of his own riches.

Of interest, why do you suppose it was only Abram that tithed to Melchizedek? Why not Aner, Eschol, and Mamre who obviously had assisted Abram in the Battle against the rebelling kings?

Did Abram's tithe represent all the people? How does that compare to each individual being required to tithe in the Church today? Only one of those men tithed... and that, not of his own property.

We don't have detail of that. They would if there were high priest in their generation. But abraham is our father of faith who's faith we follow. The revelation of God to him was trusted that he would teach even his household .they followed his faith. He is the father of us all.


Romans 4:16,
. . . but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Zikkyy:

You don't understand. Ola is not following anybody. He is actually following the tithe! Ola cannot follow Christ because there is no tithe attached!

Who's footsteps are you following?

Daily Manna

Responsible Stewardship

TEXT: NUMBERS 18:20–32

"And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation" (Numbers 18:21).

Biblical records reveal that Levi, the third son of Jacob and Leah, was the ancestor of the priest of the tabernacle. Jacob was not happy with Levi and Simeon and he pronounced them dispersed among the people of Israel for their violence and cruelty to the men of Shechem. The situation changed later when the tribe of Levi submitted their lives entirely to the service of God. Moses in his farewell speech, praised the tribe of Levi for being faithful to the covenant with God and for teaching the people to obey God. God always rewards faithfulness and responsible stewardship in every generation.

Our text today outlines the principle, pattern and portion of the Levites in discharging the duties assigned to them by God. The priests and the Levites were to have no earthly inheritance, for God Himself was their portion and inheritance. They were to be focused and dedicate their ambition, strength and resources for the service of the tabernacle. Levites were to live on the tithes of the children of Israel, while they in turn should pay their heave offerings unto the Lord. It was to be used to support the work of the tabernacle. The Levites must then be very careful and ensure that they handle the things of God with reverence. Neither should they pollute the holy things of the children of Israel, otherwise they die.

Giving something back to God in appreciation of what He freely gave us is the responsibility of every heaven-bound pilgrims especially because the principle of tithing is still very much relevant today. Believers must see their time, talent and resources as gifts to be dedicated to God who is the Supreme Giver. Gifts dedicated to God must be treated with respect and reverence. As responsible stewards of God’s resources, Christians must channel their lives and resources as holy and acceptable service unto God.

Thought for the day: "Dedicated life unto God is a duty and debt we all owe Him"

For Details . . .

Joagbaje:

We don't have detail of that. They would if there were high priest in their generation. But abraham is our father of faith who's faith we follow. The revelation of God to him was trusted that he would teach even his household .they followed his faith. He is the father of us all.


Romans 4:16,
. . . but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

scripture doesn't say Abram tithed because of his faith.

And, once again, Ola returns to the Law. It is no surprise he cannot justify his doctrine of a monetary tithe requirement. He is unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Mark Miwerds: scripture doesn't say Abram tithed because of his faith.

Abraham gave tithes to him of faith. It was based on revelation. He saw the man was not ordinary.He represented God .

Hebrews 7:4
Now consider how great this man was — even Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the plunder to him!

Image123:

Whatever you devote is holy unto God. It is the temple that sanctifies the gift, go and read zikky.

Can you clarify the above please? Does that 'whatever' include ill-gotten gain e.g. from robbery? Is that now holy unto God and sanctified as well? I'm not saying you're implying the latter, I just need you to clearly state what you mean.

Secondly, if it is simply whatever we 'devote' that is holy unto God, why even bother referring to biblical tithe if we can all decide on the 'whatever' we choose to devote to God?

If it is a matter of support to ministers, that support should be according to the need, not some formula. 10% giving is not some magic number that will automatically meet ministers' needs.

One comment on the issue of 'show me' so and so - it is has to be based on what is written, not what is not written. If all that is written is agricultural tithe, there is no basis to extend it further to fish. To say show me where tithing fish was prohibited is a logical fallacy - an argument from silence. Instead the onus is on you to produce a verse saying that 'fish tithe is not prohibited' as the other party has provided verses describing agricultural giving.


Talking of birth and death and haircuts is also disingenuous - firstly all those activities are recorded elsewhere in scripture and secondly, none of those activities are under discussion here as requirements for Christians so they are irrelevant to this discussion.

In the end, we must return to what is written, else people will make outlandish inferences in order to justify their behaviour. Logic is not what we need but the Spirit, but that still does not mean we can simply extend scripture to cover requirements that are not described therein.

Joagbaje:

Abraham gave tithes to him of faith. It was based on revelation. He saw the man was not ordinary.He represented God .

Hebrews 7:4
Now consider how great this man was — even Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the plunder to him!

Scripture does not say Abram gave tithes to him in faith. You read into the Scripture what is not there.

OLAADEGBU:

(Galatians 3:29).

Are you Abraham's spiritual seed by any means?



(Romans 4:11-12).

If you claim to follow Christ you will not kick against the precedence left by Abraham in giving tithes.



Do you even believe in the deity of Christ? The day you stopped using the "Awake" magazine as your bible study tool would be the day you will begin to understand the verses I quoted above.



You should rather get rid of all the lies that the JWs have deposited in you before you start to look for the lies in other folks message.

I don't even know how to weep for this Olaadegbu. Don't you know that am not a JW. You love digressing whenever your lies are becoming more obvious. Let me shock you the more.

To accept Christ one must exercise faith in him first. Many knew nothing about Abraham and his faith when they accepted Christ and exercised faith in him. Who do you put first, Christ or Abraham?

Abraham after paying his tithe did not keep anything for himself. The remaining 90% was shared among those who were with him, for he said, "i will not keep anything for myself." Olaadegbu! Are you not a lier, a deceit and a hypocrite? You don't pay your tithe in the manner Abraham did.

If you are honest, share the 90% of your income among those who are with you (your employer, employees, co-workers, ME [i would love to lay my hands on that 90% of yours *don't use this against me o, cos that's the only thing you can hold onto*]).

.

Image123:
Proverbs 26:17 He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.

My brother, your quote is good but it is out of context. You should have settled your strife with Enigma by posting directly to his email. There are people you might be deceiving by posting in the public.

You might not happy that i picked out your error for you to correct yourself and stop going in circles. Correcting your errors helps you attain perfection. Accepting the truth with humility is a wonderful virtue, cultivate it.

Boomark:

My brother, your quote is good but it is out of context. You should have settled your strife with Enigma by posting directly to his email. There are people you might be deceiving by posting in the public.

You might not happy that i picked out your error for you to correct yourself and stop going in circles. Correcting your errors helps you attain perfection. Accepting the truth with humility is a wonderful virtue, cultivate it.

SMH!! You need help.

Bidam: SMH!! You need help.

SMH!!! You need corrections too. Where have you been.

Boomark:

I don't even know how to weep for this Olaadegbu. Don't you know that am not a JW. You love digressing whenever your lies are becoming more obvious. Let me shock you the more.

Don't be perfidious. You better weep for yourself and shed tears of repentance and put your faith in Christ. Are you not the one being deliberately deceitful by not responding directly to my objections? You may not be an "Awake" carrying JW but don't you believe in their doctrines? Who do you believe Jesus Christ to be, God or angel Michael?

Boomark:

To accept Christ one must exercise faith in him first. Many knew nothing about Abraham and his faith when they accepted Christ and exercised faith in him. Who do you put first, Christ or Abraham?

When you exercise faith in Christ you are doing what Abraham did to receive the righteousness of God.

"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that the righteousness might be imputed to them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised"

(Romans 4:11-12).

Abraham believe God and righteousness was imputed onto him, that is why he is the father of all them that believe. He received the promise by faith and he acted in faith when he gave tithes of all to Melchisedec. And if you claim to be of Christ you will follow in the steps of the faith of father Abraham.

"And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

(Galatians 3:29).

Boomark:

Abraham after paying his tithe did not keep anything for himself. The remaining 90% was shared among those who were with him, for he said, "i will not keep anything for myself." Olaadegbu! Are you not a lier, a deceit and a hypocrite? You don't pay your tithe in the manner Abraham did.

If you are honest, share the 90% of your income among those who are with you (your employer, employees, co-workers, ME [i would love to lay my hands on that 90% of yours *don't use this against me o, cos that's the only thing you can hold onto*]).

Don't be a Mountebank. I am not a "lier" (whatever that means) neither am I "a deceit" nor "a hypocrite." Tithe means a tenth of one's income, it means 10%. Anything beyond that is no more a tithe but an offering. The poor widow and the disciples gave their 100% when it was necessary.

OLAADEGBU: ... Don't be a Mountebank. ....

Ah, many thanks for that word "mountebank"!

One definition of "mountebank":

"Noun

1. A person who deceives others, esp. in order to trick them out of their money; a charlatan.
2. A person who sold patent medicines in public places.

Synonyms
charlatan - quack - impostor"

Nuff said!

Enigma:

Ah, many thanks for that word "mountebank"!

One definition of "mountebank":

"Noun

1. A person who deceives others, esp. in order to trick them out of their money; a charlatan.
2. A person who sold patent medicines in public places.

Synonyms
charlatan - quack - impostor"

Nuff said!

To be laconic I'll say don't be a charlatan.

Time for some interlude.

Here is the Magic body control (turn up your sound for better effect).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_MgqnqYEVA

The real truth pastors may never tell you about tithes
https://www.nairaland.com/519835/real-truth-pastor-may-never

OLAADEGBU:

Don't be perfidious. You better weep for yourself and shed tears of repentance and put your faith in Christ. Are you not the one being deliberately deceitful by not responding directly to my objections? You may not be an "Awake" carrying JW but don't you believe in their doctrines? Who do you believe Jesus Christ to be, God or angel Michael?

What objections please. My confidence will not allow me to miss anything. If i fail, i will learn and gain more confidence in the truth. Some of Jw's doctrines can shut you up any day any time. By the way how many Gods do you have? We we were LEARNING about angel Michael you ran away. Don't disturb me about it.

When you exercise faith in Christ you are doing what Abraham did to receive the righteousness of God.

Good. And I am blessed along with Abraham.

(Romans 4:11-12).

Abraham believe God and righteousness was imputed onto him, that is why he is the father of all them that believe. He received the promise by faith and he acted in faith when he gave tithes of all to Melchisedec. And if you claim to be of Christ you will follow in the steps of the faith of father Abraham.

You an unfaithful follower of Abraham. After paying your tithe 10%, give the remaining 90% to those who are with you(ie the poor, for it is written that they will continue to be with you) and keep nothing for yourself. That is the way Abraham expressed his faithfulness to giving. Am not comfortable that you are dodging the remaining 90 percent.



(Galatians 3:29).

Don't be a Mountebank. I am not a "lier" (whatever that means) neither am I "a deceit" nor "a hypocrite." Tithe means a tenth of one's income, it means 10%. Anything beyond that is no more a tithe but an offering. The poor widow and the disciples gave their 100% when it was necessary.

You just revealed you English name. Leave the disciples out of this cos you are not following them. I need that your 90 percent.

OLAADEGBU:

To be laconic I'll say don't be a charlatan.

He helped you define your person. Thank him Jor.