I pointed to Genesis 4 in an attempt to show you that there were other occupations besides farming and herding. Tubalcain was a teacher who taught people how to work with brass. Noah (chapter 6) was a carpenter before the flood Yet no mention of either of these ever paying, or even giving tithes to anyone.

Later chapters in Genesis reveal tentmakers, bakers, butchers, brickmasons, and many other occupations. None of which are said to have paid, or even given, tithes.

None, that is, except Abram, and the farmers and herders of ancient Israel. Who, of course, is never said to have tithed of his own riches.

Of interest, why do you suppose it was only Abram that tithed to Melchizedek? Why not Aner, Eschol, and Mamre who obviously had assisted Abram in the Battle against the rebelling kings?

Did Abram's tithe represent all the people? How does that compare to each individual being required to tithe in the Church today? Only one of those men tithed... and that, not of his own property.

Mark Miwerds: I pointed to Genesis 4 in an attempt to show you that there were other occupations besides farming and herding. Tubalcain was a teacher who taught people how to work with brass. Noah (chapter 6) was a carpenter before the flood Yet no mention of either of these ever paying, or even giving tithes to anyone.

Later chapters in Genesis reveal tentmakers, bakers, butchers, brickmasons, and many other occupations. None of which are said to have paid, or even given, tithes.

None, that is, except Abram, and the farmers and herders of ancient Israel. Who, of course, is never said to have tithed of his own riches.

Of interest, why do you suppose it was only Abram that tithed to Melchizedek? Why not Aner, Eschol, and Mamre who obviously had assisted Abram in the Battle against the rebelling kings?

Did Abram's tithe represent all the people? How does that compare to each individual being required to tithe in the Church today? Only one of those men tithed... and that, not of his own property.

There was no argument that there were other professions. The question was for you to show us the Bible that you cllaimed to prohibit fishermen from givin tithes. Are you a child of Mamre or what are you asking? Folks should learn to ask questions for understanding, not foolish questions like sadducces. How do you conclude that all the others did not give? Is there record that they gave any offering or sacrifice or prayed or gave birth or died. So if something is not recorded, it must be concluded that it never happened? i'm waiting for that verse you said, or you tell us that you were mistaken in presumption.

Image123:

There was no argument that there were other professions. The question was for you to show us the Bible that you cllaimed to prohibit fishermen from givin tithes. Are you a child of Mamre or what are you asking? Folks should learn to ask questions for understanding, not foolish questions like sadducces. How do you conclude that all the others did not give? Is there record that they gave any offering or sacrifice or prayed or gave birth or died. So if something is not recorded, it must be concluded that it never happened? i'm waiting for that verse you said, or you tell us that you were mistaken in presumption.

The onus is on you to prove to us that fishermen tithed cause as far as scriptures is concerned God never instructed them to tithe of their fish and saying they did is simply adding to scripture the same way modern tithe pimps tell us God expects tithes of our monetary income.

Image123:

There was no argument that there were other professions. The question was for you to show us the Bible that you cllaimed to prohibit fishermen from givin tithes. Are you a child of Mamre or what are you asking? Folks should learn to ask questions for understanding, not foolish questions like sadducces. How do you conclude that all the others did not give? Is there record that they gave any offering or sacrifice or prayed or gave birth or died. So if something is not recorded, it must be concluded that it never happened? i'm waiting for that verse you said, or you tell us that you were mistaken in presumption.

please point to any Scripture in the Bible that says fish were tithed. I find land increase thithed, i.e.; the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree. I find livestock tithed. But for the life of me, I cannot find anything that says fishermen tithed.

Zikkyy:

Now why would a fisherman tithe if God did not include him in the list. I wonder how some people reason. So if the president changes his cabinet today and provides a list of ministerial appointees, because the president did not say Image123 is not one of the appointees, you will go to Abuja and resume as a minister



God already told you what is holy to him. You want to add to it are you now God to decide for him? on what authority do you decide what is Holy to the Lord? since the passage did not limit God's tithe, you are saying we are now free to decide what is Holy to the Lord? can we now say tithe from prosti.tution or robbery is holy to the Lord? can you just listen to your self

Whatever you devote is holy unto God. It is the temple that sanctifies the gift, go and read zikky. So in your analogy now, God is the president, agric tithes are ministers, Image123 is the unappointed, where is the fish tithe. Indeed, you might be added to the list of comedians, to be mild.

Pastor Kun:

The onus is on you to prove to us that fishermen tithed cause as far as scriptures is concerned God never instructed them to tithe of their fish and saying they did is simply adding to scripture the same way modern tithe pimps tell us God expects tithes of our monetary income.

Onus? It is on the persons who insist that God does not accept tithe to show us where God said that. As far as we know, people have given tithes of non agric produce and Gd accepted. There is no incidence of God rejecting tithes because it is non agric. We have seen Abraham and Jacob tithe non agric. The scribes gave tithe, so why not the fishermen?

Mark Miwerds: please point to any Scripture in the Bible that says fish were tithed. I find land increase thithed, i.e.; the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree. I find livestock tithed. But for the life of me, I cannot find anything that says fishermen tithed.

There is no scripture that says they did not. How hard is this basic statement to understand. One cnnot insist that they did not without concrete evidence as it were. For the life of me, i do not find any scripture that says Jesus ever shaved His hair.

Image123:

Onus? It is on the persons who insist that God does not accept tithe to show us where God said that. As far as we know, people have given tithes of non agric produce and Gd accepted. There is no incidence of God rejecting tithes because it is non agric. We have seen Abraham and Jacob tithe non agric. The scribes gave tithe, so why not the fishermen?

Where do you see Jacob tithing non-agricultural tithes? Certainly not in the Word of God! Jacob only made a vow. Scripture doesn't say he kept that vow.

Concerning what God said was to be tithed, you deny that by trying to invent other things to be tithed. God stated what was titheable in Leviticus 27. All the tithe of the land consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.

As Pastor Kun said, the onus is on you to prove that your claim that fish and money could be tithed.

Image123:
There is no scripture that says they did not. How hard is this basic statement to understand. One cnnot insist that they did not without concrete evidence as it were. For the life of me, i do not find any scripture that says Jesus ever shaved His hair.

Bros stop trying to be disingenuous, even if they did (which is highly unlikely) it was not required of them by law. We cannot rule out some people who try to be overzealous. What really matters is what God commanded and not what some mis guided people decided to do.

Pastor Kun:

Bros stop trying to be disingenuous, even if they did (which is highly unlikely) it was not required of them by law. We cannot rule out some people who try to be overzealous. What really matters is what God commanded and not what some mis guided people decided to do.

or are guilted into doing

Daily Manna

Giving For God's Service

TEXT: Nehemiah 13:10-14

"Then all Judah brought the tithe of the grain and the new wine and the oil to the storehouse" (Nehemiah 13:12)

As we approach the end of the age, nations are plagued with economic recession, caused by mismanagement and failure to fully tap God-given resources. The resultant effect is that millions of people are losing their jobs around the world, due to reduction in labour. In contrast, Church work demands more labourers, even during these hard times. "The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few". From where comes this provision? God relies on the faithful giving of His people. Such must therefore see it as their duty to God to give of their substance.

Nehemiah was shocked on reaching the house of the Lord that the ministers there, the Levites and their choristers, had abandoned their post for lack of provision. They left the ministry of the word, in search of food on the farms. The leaders were to be blamed for not teaching the people to give their tithes and offerings, so that there will be "meat in God's house (Malachi 3:10). Nehemiah corrected the lapses, ordered the people to bring in their tithes and the Levites were restored to their ministry. He appointed honest and faithful men to manage the resources. By this the Levites had their provision regularly supplied and they remained in their service to God and the people.

Many anointed ministers are quitting the ministry today not for lack of vision but for want of food. This ought not to be. Believers are to live up to their responsibility of regularly paying their tithes and offerings, so that this generation of anointed ministers of God is not lost to commerce and industry.

Those who manage church estate need to be faithful, honest and prudent, so that there is no lack in God's house. How faithful are you in obeying God's command to bring in all the tithes? To deny the Church of your tithes is to rob God of what rightly belongs to Him. To obey is better than sacrifice. You can make amends if you are found wanting.

Thought for the day: "Give, not of necessity but cheerfully"

For Details . . .

swtchicgurl:
[b]
I'll try to answer you briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]

Succint.

OLAADEGBU: Believers are to live up to their responsibility of regularly paying their tithes and offerings, so that this generation of anointed ministers of God is not lost to commerce and industry.

We are not told to pay tithes. That was a command for the nation of Israel and had nothing whatsoever to do with other nations. Ministers who teach that we are "responsible for paying tithes" are dishonest, whether intentional or not intentional.

Those who manage church estate need to be faithful, honest and prudent, so that there is no lack in God's house. How faithful are you in obeying God's command to bring in all the tithes? To deny the Church of your tithes is to rob God of what rightly belongs to Him. To obey is better than sacrifice. You can make amends if you are found wanting.

God hasn't commanded us to tithe our money. That command came from the lips of a preacher who is either greedy for filthy lucre, or guilty of misinterpreting the Word of God due to improper study. The only amends that should be made are the amends of the Pastors who are robbing the people of God with their "God requires a tithe" lie.

These pastors should feel the same guilt that Zacchaeus did and repent of their wickedness. They should then pay back all that they have robbed from the people of God as Zacchaeus did.

Thought for the day:Give, not of necessity but cheerfully

And this statement totally contradicts your "responsibility to tithe" statement.

A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Mark Miwerds:

We are not told to pay tithes. That was a command for the nation of Israel and had nothing whatsoever to do with other nations. Ministers who teach that we are "responsible for paying tithes" are dishonest, whether intentional or not intentional.

True. Gentiles were not told to pay tithes so don't take panadol for someone else's headache.

Mark Miwerds:

God hasn't commanded us to tithe our money. That command came from the lips of a preacher who is either greedy for filthy lucre, or guilty of misinterpreting the Word of God due to improper study. The only amends that should be made are the amends of the Pastors who are robbing the people of God with their "God requires a tithe" lie.

These pastors should feel the same guilt that Zacchaeus did and repent of their wickedness. They should then pay back all that they have robbed from the people of God as Zacchaeus did.

Remember that the article is referring to "believers" not "unbelievers," and if you are interested in obeying God then give your heart first to the Lord and then you will not hesitate to give your wallet if and when the Lord demands it.

Mark Miwerds:

And this statement totally contradicts your "responsibility to tithe" statement.

Why should you give your wallet when you cannot give your heart to the Lord?

Mark Miwerds:

A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.

True. Repent and believe the gospel, then follow in the footstep of Abraham, the father of all those who believe.

OLAADEGBU:

True. Gentiles were not told to pay tithes so don't take panadol for someone else's headache.



Remember that the article is referring to "believers" not "unbelievers," so if you are interested in obeying God then give your heart first to the Lord and then you will not hesitate to give your wallet if and when the Lord demands it.





Why should you give your wallet when you cannot give your heart to the Lord?



True. Repent and believe the gospel, then follow in the footstep of Abraham, the father of all those who believe.

I have given my heart to the Lord. He has not, nor will He ever tell me to tithe my money. Nor has He told anyone else to do such. His Word says our giving is to be as we choose in our hearts to give, not as someone else demands for us.

You teach contrary to the written Word, Olaadegbu. I reject your false doctrine.

Mark Miwerds:

I have given my heart to the Lord. He has not, nor will He ever tell me to tithe my money. Nor has He told anyone else to do such. His Word says our giving is to be as we choose in our hearts to give, not as someone else demands for us.

You teach contrary to the written Word, Olaadegbu. I reject your false doctrine.

You reject the truth? If you have truly given your heart to the Lord you will not hesitate to follow in the footsteps of Abraham who paid tithes.

"And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

(Galatians 3:29).

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

^^^

And the passage in fuller detail:

"8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."


So who is cursed with a curse? Which nation - Nigeria? Christendom?

Edit: Oh and of course which nation was doing the robbing?

OLAADEGBU:

You reject the truth? If you have truly given your heart to the Lord you will not hesitate to follow in the footsteps of Abraham who paid tithes.

(Galatians 3:29).

Abram did not "pay tithes." Why do you lie against the Word as you do?

Image123: Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

The tithe there is not the same tithe men demand today.

OLAADEGBU:

These objections should be expected from most anti tithers and they say whether or not you are really Abraham's children. Read Galatians 3:1-29; Romans 4:12-17 to see who the promise has been given to. Pay special attention to the following verses: Romans 4:12; Galatians 3: 6-9, 14-16 and verse 29.

Twister! At least you did not call me anti-Abraham this time.

Did you not see where i said you should follow Christ not Abraham? Don't you know the difference between following Abraham's faith and following Abraham as a role model?

It seems you did not even pay attention to the Galatians you quoted. It says that those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham. Abraham(imperfect man) became our father as a result of the promise but not the one we must follow. Christ is perfect. Olaadegbu! Follow Christ.

May be i should engage myself in hunting down your lies. You are misleading a lot of people.

Enigma: ^^^

And the passage in fuller detail:

"8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."


So who is cursed with a curse? Which nation - Nigeria? Christendom?

Edit: Oh and of course which nation was doing the robbing?

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Mark Miwerds: The tithe there is not the same tithe men demand today.

Bring ye ALL the tithe.

Image123:

Bring ye ALL the tithe.

all the tithe under the Law was crops and livestock. Nothing else.

The storehouse was in Jerusalem. There is no indication in the pages of God's Holy Word that the storehouse was moved to another location

Image123:

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Ah, na so the answer to my questions pass my friend, he take style digress --- completely.

It's all good!

Image123:

Bring ye ALL the tithe.

Go sell ALL you have and give it to the poor.

Enigma:

Go sell ALL you have and give it to the poor.

Have you? i love to practice what i preach, instead of being like the pharisees who say and do not.

Mark Miwerds: all the tithe under the Law was crops and livestock. Nothing else.

The storehouse was in Jerusalem. There is no indication in the pages of God's Holy Word that the storehouse was moved to
another location

Remember that you are yet to ive proof fr this assertion.

Image123:

Have you? i love to practice what i preach, instead of being like the pharisees who say and do not.

Sharp guy......look at the words of Jesus and chose the one you feel you can live with and run with it while dumping the rest.

Only that you still fall short of your tithe practice.......3 types of tithe.....to be true to your profession and the law setting it up.....do all three

Image123:

Have you? i love to practice what i preach, instead of being like the pharisees who say and do not.

So now I am going to accuse you of lying especially since you impliedly called me a Pharisee.

You are lying in TWO respects.

1. I have never said that Jesus commanded a Christian to sell all he has - so accusing me of being a Pharisee about that is false. {of course the simple argument has always been clear: if we are to follow 'bring ALL the tithe' THEN why are we not to follow 'go sell ALL you have'?}

2. You lie when you say you practise what you preach unless (a) you can claim that you have sold ALL and given it to the poor or at least (b) explain why we are to follow 'bring ALL the tithe' but not 'Go and sell ALL and give it to the poor'.



PS It is a pity you too seem to want to turn this into fight --- but again it's all good.

Enigma:

So now I am going to accuse you of lying especially since you impliedly called me a Pharisee.

You are lying in TWO respects.

1. I have never said that Jesus commanded a Christian to sell all he has - so accusing me of being a Pharisee about that is false. {of course the simple argument has always been clear: if we are to follow 'bring ALL the tithe' THEN why are we not to follow 'go sell ALL you have'?}

2. You lie when you say you practise what you preach unless (a) you can claim that you have sold ALL and given it to the poor or at least (b) why we are to follow 'bring ALL the tithe' but not 'Go and sell ALL and give it to the poor'.



PS It is a pity you too seem to want to turn this into fight --- but again it's all good.

No fight at all on Enigma.
You just told me to go and sell all my possessions. If no, then sorry i misunderstood you.
i'm aware that Alwaystrue and co have replied you on that passage. Confirm that ou require extra explanation on the passage?

Candour:

Sharp guy......look at the words of Jesus and chose the one you feel you can live with and run with it while dumping the rest.

Only that you still fall short of your tithe practice.......3 types of tithe.....to be true to your profession and the law setting it up.....do all three

All have sinned and come short of God's glory. What we need is grace, not logic meant at puncturing holes into scriptures.